Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Tezac The Free Androgen Index is a calculation based on your Total Testosterone reading divided by your Serum testosterone Reading multiplied by 100. It can be misleading. Can you get the Serum testosterone number and the SHBG number and post them please Nick > > Hi this is my first time on here and already i'm confused. > Does anybody know what is meant by free androgen index and what it > means. example i was given a number of: 8.30am blood test 65, 12.30 > blood test 51, 16.30 blood test 69.7 the ref.range is 22 - 65 UK > readings. > Any help please > thanks in advance > tezack > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Here is a link that will do this for you. http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm Phil williamb11 <no_reply > wrote: I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of free test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by SHBG (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if you don't have free test. read in labs yet??? Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Rich, I had a hard time understanding the link formula that Phil sent too! The FAI equation that I posted is from the Mass General Hopsital in Boston, per my blood work. Using it, you would have an estimated free T of 42.1, on a scale of 17-173. I think this is pretty cool. Your lab says free T is 43.7 which is not too off from estimate 42.1. Still in 25% of the top, though. I am at 48. I think it is a " back of the envelope way " to save money from always running a free T test Blessings, Bill > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of > free > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by > SHBG > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if > you > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bill, The FAI (Free Androgen Index) is a VERY poor guide to free testosterone, was created for use in women and should NOT be used to determine the free testosterone level in men as it is diagnostically unsound. So say many endocrine sources. I have had an FAI and then a day later an actual free test. Results The FAI stated 151 range 14-97- it was saying that my free testosterone was much higher than the top of the normal range. Whereas the actual results showed this; Free Testosteroen 20.8pg/ml range 8.8-27- so I was actually well within the normal range and in fact not even at the top of it. So not only do many endocirne sources state that the FAI is an unsound method of ascertaining a free testosterone estimate but in actual fact I have seen in practice just how unsound it actually is. The FAI does not take into account estradiol whatsoever something that can have a great influence on free testosterone levels, also it is only a theoritical estimate and a bad one at that. STEER CLEAR OF IT!!!!! Chris > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of free > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by SHBG > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if you > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > Thanks, > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hey I appreciate the wisdom and your clearing this up for me. Always willing to learn and stand corrected! Bill > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of free > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by SHBG > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if you > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of the labs seem to think that if your at the average Testosterone level of a 120 year old man your " ok " The problem is that most MDs and such look at the results and think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and then you go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they get with the program? > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of > free > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by > SHBG > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if > you > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 The Free Androgen index has been proved to be unreliable in men. It depends on SHBG, which can vary man to man. The lower the SHBG against Testosterone, the greater the FAI number, which by definition, as far as the ignorant are concerned, would indicate T levels are ok. Recent studies have found the combo of low Testosterone and low SHBG to lead to Metabolic Syndrome and possibly Type 2 Diabetes. Hope it helps, Nick > Re: Free Androgen Index > > That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of > the labs seem to think that if your at the average > Testosterone level of a 120 year old man your " ok " The > problem is that most MDs and such look at the results and > think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and then you > go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex > drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. > > Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they > get with the program? > > > > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of > > free > > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by > > SHBG > > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if > > you > > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Hi Nick, According to the Endocrine Society of Australia it is unsound (which is funny as they are an unsound organisation themselves:) But for the US and Austalia to basically ignore the FAI in favour of other methodologies tells me something. What tells me that it is wrong is also the fact that I have had a free test and had testosterone calculated by the FAI at the same time and the free test showed that my T levels were mid range on one and a half packets of testogel and the FAI indicated I was almost double the free T range. You are right about the FAI equation in that its results are almost entirely based upon SHBG levels- certainly it is only an estimate or as I prefer to call it a gestimate based on nothing more than the supposed average man (having been created for use in women:). It doesn't take the individual into account in any way, their genetics or their other hormones that exert significant influences on free T. Total Testosterone / SHBG * 100 So if an individual had 5nmol/l / 6nmol/l * 100 = unit less 83 FAI Which would basically mean that a man with 5nmol/l would be deemed to have enough testosterone. In fact theoretically If an individual had 2nmol/l / 3nmol/l * 100 = 66 FAI which would seem ok. HELLO This would suggest that a testosterone level of 57.6ng/dl would be ok!!!!!!!! HELLO So the FAI becomes truly absurd when dealing with men with low SHBG levels and is a VERY poor indicator of free testosterone in such men. This calculation is so blatantly poor and redundant that doctors should stop using it; Immediately! > > > > > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of > > > free > > > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by > > > SHBG > > > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if > > > you > > > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Did you guys read the Explanation and Examples that the link. http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm I never tried this but the guys that were using it said it worked. Phil james186282 <pillow@...> wrote: That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of the labs seem to think that if your at the average Testosterone level of a 120 year old man your " ok " The problem is that most MDs and such look at the results and think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and then you go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they get with the program? > > > > I see from some research that you can get a " rough " estimate of > free > > test by taking total T (ng/dl) multiply by 3.47 and dividing by > SHBG > > (nmol/L). This gives you a Free Anrogen Index, which should be > > between 17 and 173 - obviously higher the better. > > > > What do folks think about this calculation and its usefulness if > you > > don't have free test. read in labs yet??? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 The problem is your doctor, not the lab. It's the doctor who interprets those numbers. The lab gives a reference range. It's not a hard and fast rule. If your doc is taking it as such have a talk with him. If he won't see the light get another doctor. Don't act like a victim, take control of your life. > > That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of the labs > seem to think that if your at the average Testosterone level of a 120 > year old man your " ok " The problem is that most MDs and such look at > the results and think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and > then you go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex > drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. > > Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they get with > the program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 You have an excellent point. The labs my Doctor used had this same reading but he ACCE guilines are at (uhh can't remember exactlty) 340? Whatever. She told me that " symptoms " were just as important in a correct diagnosis. And even tho the lab said " Normal " she prescribed Androgel and upped the dose until I was nearer the middle of the range and started feeling right. My point is that some doctors without a lot of experience with hormones will say " Lab check is normal what else can it be!? Maybe depression since thats not testable in a lab " <SIGH> > > > > That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of the labs > > seem to think that if your at the average Testosterone level of a 120 > > year old man your " ok " The problem is that most MDs and such look at > > the results and think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and > > then you go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex > > drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. > > > > Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they get with > > the program? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 a good rule of thumb is to get your Total and Free T in the upper 1/3 of your labs range and work from there some need to go to the top of the range. And some do dam good just in the upper 1/3. I feel if one knew what his levels were when he was 20 say they were 600 on meds you my need to be higher like 700 to feel the same to much of the med is lost do to stress and illness. Read this link it is all in here a lot to read but worth it. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html Phil james186282 <pillow@...> wrote: You have an excellent point. The labs my Doctor used had this same reading but he ACCE guilines are at (uhh can't remember exactlty) 340? Whatever. She told me that " symptoms " were just as important in a correct diagnosis. And even tho the lab said " Normal " she prescribed Androgel and upped the dose until I was nearer the middle of the range and started feeling right. My point is that some doctors without a lot of experience with hormones will say " Lab check is normal what else can it be!? Maybe depression since thats not testable in a lab " > > > > That first range that starts at 250 is wrong. A couple of the labs > > seem to think that if your at the average Testosterone level of a 120 > > year old man your " ok " The problem is that most MDs and such look at > > the results and think " Hormones ok he must be mentaly depressed " and > > then you go on some SSRI and your don't CARE that you've got no sex > > drive, your energy is shot to hell, your memory is fried and so on. > > > > Can SOMEONE talk to Quest Labs or whoever and suggest they get with > > the program? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.