Re: I Feel Like I am Wasting Away.

[Guest guest]

Philip,

Sorry for all you are going through. Have you checked your O2

level? It is a long shot, but I know after a rough dive (SCUBA) a

shot of O2 really gets me going again.

Bob

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I

went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to

take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very

tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and

see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't

get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

The window of optimum E2 is very, very narrow. And it's very difficult

to find and maintain this window because the symptoms of low E2 are very

similar to the symptoms of high E2. Also, the right level of E2 depends

on your T level. In other words, the ratio may be even more important

than the absolute amount of either hormone. Therefore, E2 management

becomes even more complicated if you're on a therapy where your T varies

(e.g., T shots, HCG shots, etc.). Lastly, it helps to appreciate the

amount of time it takes for a protocol change to take effect. I have

screwed myself a few times by overdosing or underdosing during a shift

in protocol. Hormonal balance is a very complicated mechanism.

I find that I'm very sensitive to very small adjustments in my dosages

of HCG and DIM. See my primer articles 5, 6 and 7.

I strongly suggest that you spring for the $200 and get the scale I use

(The Tanita 1210-05). See:

http://balanc.temp.veriohosting.com/paypal/diamond.html

With this scale you'll be able to set your own dosage to +-0.002 mg and

take back control of your health. I pill every 10 days is clearly not a

good Arimidex protocol. You probably need sometime like 0.05 to 0.1

mg/day. With this scale you should be able to apply this dosage quite

easily. As an engineer, you should know that there's nothing like the

right tool for the job.

Regards,

I Feel Like I am Wasting Away.

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No but my wife's sister's father in-law has a tank and we are going to see them

tonigh so I am going to take a hit of it.

Phil

Bob <ballen3_2000@...> wrote:

Philip,

Sorry for all you are going through. Have you checked your O2

level? It is a long shot, but I know after a rough dive (SCUBA) a

shot of O2 really gets me going again.

Bob

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I

went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to

take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very

tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and

see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't

get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Hang in there, buddy.

Have you tried just using something like zinc instead of armidex?

Maybe you need a much weaker anti-E2 agent to keep your levels

consistently in range? I don't know much about this, just throwing

out an idea here.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil,

You did get everything right at one point and felt great. Hang in

there, Im sure you and your doctor will be able to figure it out. I

think Mark might have a point maybe you no longer need something as

strong as arimidex for maintenance anymore. I remember reading

articles where people were using zinc for 6 weeks and afterwards they

no longer needed the zinc.

Keep up the fight!

Let us know how your test results turn out.

> Phil,

>

> Hang in there, buddy.

>

> Have you tried just using something like zinc instead of armidex?

> Maybe you need a much weaker anti-E2 agent to keep your levels

> consistently in range? I don't know much about this, just throwing

> out an idea here.

>

> Mark

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Hang in there. These hormonal issues are real slow movers and your

approach is a good one. As has been mentioned in other posts,

Arimidex is a very potent tool in this fight. The thing that I

always hung onto was the fact that there was a point in my treatment

cycle where I did feel great, even if it was briefly. That means you

can back too it. You'll get there, just stick with what you know.

And besides, 60 ain't too old :-)

Bobby

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I

went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to

take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't

get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

I'm in the same boat: energy unbelieveably low, virtually housebound since

mid-June. I think there's some improvememt going on, but it's maddeningly

slow. Despite that, mood is good. Libido is high, but I don't have the energy to

do much with it. Erection ability is lower than usual. (At this point your

humble

correspondent indulges in a fleeting moment of self-pity... then forges bravely

on.)

I've stopped Arimidex altogether, and won't take it again unless I've got solid

evidence of high E2. I took two 0.5 mg doses between July 12 & August 12.

E2 rose from 18 to 26 pg/mL (R: 0 - 53, my target range is 30 - 40). I think

zinc

& soy milk are keeping E2 down by themselves. Another change is switching

from pecker-deadening Prozac to Wellbutrin. I impatiently expect further

improvement before long.

When things are right, muscle tone returns almost immediately. Strength and

stamina return almost like nothing had happened. My shuffle turns into a

stride, My posture improves so it's like I'm two inches taller. Sometimes it

happens quickly, like I wake up all better. I'm surprised I don't feel all that

deconditioned. So my point is, your not wasting away - it just feels like it for

now.

Hang in there,

Bruce

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Bruce Wellbutrin will give you more energy at least when I was on it it did this

to me but it made my heart beat fast and if it did not bother me so much I would

have stayed on it. And it made sex good to but I was on it a long time ago

when it first came out.

Phil

Bruce Harvey <bruceharvey@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

I'm in the same boat: energy unbelieveably low, virtually housebound since

mid-June. I think there's some improvememt going on, but it's maddeningly

slow. Despite that, mood is good. Libido is high, but I don't have the energy to

do much with it. Erection ability is lower than usual. (At this point your

humble

correspondent indulges in a fleeting moment of self-pity... then forges bravely

on.)

I've stopped Arimidex altogether, and won't take it again unless I've got solid

evidence of high E2. I took two 0.5 mg doses between July 12 & August 12.

E2 rose from 18 to 26 pg/mL (R: 0 - 53, my target range is 30 - 40). I think

zinc

& soy milk are keeping E2 down by themselves. Another change is switching

from pecker-deadening Prozac to Wellbutrin. I impatiently expect further

improvement before long.

When things are right, muscle tone returns almost immediately. Strength and

stamina return almost like nothing had happened. My shuffle turns into a

stride, My posture improves so it's like I'm two inches taller. Sometimes it

happens quickly, like I wake up all better. I'm surprised I don't feel all that

deconditioned. So my point is, your not wasting away - it just feels like it for

now.

Hang in there,

Bruce

> To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> loss my levels are all good.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Phil, Wellbutrin is also now FDA approved " on label " for CFS. - Bruce

> > To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> > problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> > tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> > moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> > over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> > Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> > rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> > my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> > Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> > this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> > can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> > the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> > acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> > with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> > A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> > loss my levels are all good.

> > Phil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil, Wellbutrin is also now FDA approved " on label " for CFS. - Bruce

> > To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> > problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> > tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> > moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> > over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> > Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> > rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> > my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> > Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> > this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> > can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> > the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> > acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> > with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> > A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> > loss my levels are all good.

> > Phil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

Hard to find info. on a reference range with a LOWER limit for E2. Here are

some I did find:

http://www.hopkins-menshealth.org/labs_article.php3?id=54

Reference Range for adult males is 10-50 pg/ml (37-184 pmol/L

http://www.pathology.med.unc.edu/path/labs/test/e/estrogen_serum.htm

Male: 5 to 66

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/Path_Handbook/handbook/test748.html

E2 MALES <15 - 45 pg/ml

http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=570818627

males 50-200 pmol/L (That's 13 - 54 pg/ml)

These recognize that men DO have a lower limit. I think men can run into

trouble above those.

Bruce

> Hi on 07/20/04 was my last blood test.

> Estradiol 48 up from <20 range is not given form Quest labs.

[Guest guest]

Good info on use of the Arimidex (unless absolutely necessary and when

dealing with clear overly high levels). Do we too often immediately turn

to the synthetic drug variation simply because it's " stronger " ? Isn't

the whole concept of testosterone versus anabolic steroids the whole

point of " natural versus synthetic " ? I have wondered how many TRT

" users " have followed Dr. Shippen's protocol and used (successfully)

natural sources such as zinc and soy isoflavones to control higher

levels of E2 and the conversion process...

Hmmm....

BTW, the local WalMart sells bottles of SpringValley soy isoflavone

tablets at the 40 mg size for a very decent price.

Larry S.

>Message: 8

> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:48:49 -0000

> From: " Bruce Harvey " <bruceharvey@...>

>Subject: Re: I Feel Like I am Wasting Away.

>

>Hi Phil,

>

>I'm in the same boat: energy unbelieveably low, virtually housebound since

mid-June. I think there's some improvememt going on, but it's maddeningly slow.

Despite that, mood is good. Libido is high, but I don't have the energy to do

much with it. Erection ability is lower than usual. (At this point your humble

correspondent indulges in a fleeting moment of self-pity... then forges bravely

on.)

>

>I've stopped Arimidex altogether, and won't take it again unless I've got solid

evidence of high E2. I took two 0.5 mg doses between July 12 & August 12.E2 rose

from 18 to 26 pg/mL (R: 0 - 53, my target range is 30 - 40). I think zinc & soy

milk are keeping E2 down by themselves. Another change is switching from

pecker-deadening Prozac to Wellbutrin. I impatiently expect further improvement

before long.

>

>When things are right, muscle tone returns almost immediately. Strength and

stamina return almost like nothing had happened. My shuffle turns into a stride,

My posture improves so it's like I'm two inches taller. Sometimes it happens

quickly, like I wake up all better. I'm surprised I don't feel all that

deconditioned. So my point is, your not wasting away - it just feels like it for

now.

>

>Hang in there,

>Bruce

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi on 07/20/04 was my last blood test.

> DHT was 140 range is 25 to 75 I am down from the last it was 169.

> Total T. 923 range 241 to 827 NG/DL

> Free T. 36.7 range is 10.8 to 24.6 PG/ML.

> Estradiol 48 up from <20 range is not given form Quest labs.

How were you feeling on that day?

How did you feel when your E2 was <20?

[Guest guest]

Not sure 7-keto DHEA works at all, i tried it once and went back to DHEA, lots

better.

Cortisol is what your adrenals make, the type to take is Hydrocortisone, it is

very safe at

20mg in the morning. Stress will exhaust the adrenals, and the recovery can take

some

time, the " old " treatment was bed rest for 6 months, complete darkness when one

slept,

no light even to pee. If taking Hydrocortisone for awhile, and then adding in

the Thyroid, i

do recommend Armour for stress cases as they have a hard time with the

synthetics. The

reason i think you have adrenal fatigue is that you have a very very very bad

TSH number,

you are the .1% of the population with that number. Your Pituitary is yelling

for more T1-

T4, but you have plenty, per your tests, so that say's your body is not using

it, which

means you are low in cortisol which makes the body use T1-T4. If you went on

Hydrocortisone at 20mg each morning and did not take any Thyroid meds, you

should

start to feel better. You could even do up to 200mg of Hydrocortisone in a day,

but i don't

recommend it, it is better to go slow with Hydrocortisone. Now there are other

adrenal

suppliments out there, but you have to be careful with some of them,

Hydrocortisone is

very safe and somewhat weak, and natural. Do you have a blood test for DHEA-S

and is

low, that would further confirm adrenal fatigue. As for the bad childhood and

stress, i

know exactly what you are talking about, it is PTSD for kids, been there, done

that.

T3. Total 151 range is 68 to 181 NG/DL.

T-3 uptake 28 range is 22 to 35%.

T-4 Free 1.1 range is 0.8 to 1.8 NG/DL.

T-4 (thyroxine) Total 8.5 range is 4.5 to 12.5 MCG/DL.

Free T4 index (T7) 2.4 range is 1.4 to 3.8.

TSH 2.98 range is 0.40 to 5.50 MIU/L

> > > The window of optimum E2 is very, very narrow. And it's very

> > difficult

> > > to find and maintain this window because the symptoms of low E2 are

> > very

> > > similar to the symptoms of high E2. Also, the right level of E2

> > depends

> > > on your T level. In other words, the ratio may be even more important

> > > than the absolute amount of either hormone. Therefore, E2 management

> > > becomes even more complicated if you're on a therapy where your T

> > varies

> > > (e.g., T shots, HCG shots, etc.). Lastly, it helps to appreciate the

> > > amount of time it takes for a protocol change to take effect. I have

> > > screwed myself a few times by overdosing or underdosing during a shift

> > > in protocol. Hormonal balance is a very complicated mechanism.

> > >

> > > I find that I'm very sensitive to very small adjustments in my dosages

> > > of HCG and DIM. See my primer articles 5, 6 and 7.

> > >

> > > I strongly suggest that you spring for the $200 and get the scale I

> > use

> > > (The Tanita 1210-05). See:

> > > http://balanc.temp.veriohosting.com/paypal/diamond.html

> > >

> > > With this scale you'll be able to set your own dosage to +-0.002 mg

> > and

> > > take back control of your health. I pill every 10 days is clearly not

> > a

> > > good Arimidex protocol. You probably need sometime like 0.05 to 0.1

> > > mg/day. With this scale you should be able to apply this dosage quite

> > > easily. As an engineer, you should know that there's nothing like the

> > > right tool for the job.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > > I Feel Like I am Wasting Away.

> > >

> > >

> > > > To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

> > > > problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

> > > > tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

> > > > moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

> > > > over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

> > > > Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

> > > > rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

> > > > my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

> > > > Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

> > > > this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

> > > > can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

> > > > the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

> > > > acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

> > > > with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

> > > > A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

> > > > loss my levels are all good.

> > > > Phil

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:10:28 -0000, you wrote:

>To update everyone I got my E2 down to low and started having

>problems. I have been house bound for 3 months now I go to bed

>tired and get up tired. I am starting to gain weight from not

>moving around. I am short of breath from not moving around. I went

>over this with my Dr. last month and he checked my Breathing and

>Heart and said everything is ok. What the hell is wrong am I in a

>rut and can't get out. I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

>my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

I just recently went through a similar thing. I'd been taking arimidex

..5mg every other day. It drove my levels down to 8 from 46.

I was a mess. I stopped all together for several weeks. I've recently

started a different regimine and (knocking on wood) its seems to be

workign better. I feel great once again now, for a week so far.

I reasoned that if I got a 38 point drop with .5, I'd get about half

that with .25. I had a pill cutter for cutting the 1 mg pills to .5.

Now with a little fumbling I find I can cut the half tablets into 1/4

tablets of .25. The pills hold together.

I've been doing .25 mg every other day now for about 10 days, and I'm

primed. (After 3 weeks of none to get my E2 levels back up). My energy

is back, I'm bouncing, and exercising again. Something I haven't been

able to motivate to in months. And endurance is good despite not

exercising.

BTW- I've been doing 1/5 packets per day of Androgel, and it has my T

levels at about 770. At this level without arimidex my E2 moves to

about 45.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:10:28 -0000, you wrote:

> I don't think so yesterday I was due to take

>my .5 mg. Arimidex I now take it every 10 days.

>Today I feel like doing something but when I start I get very tired

>this is getting me upset. I know I am getting old now 60 but this

>can't be what getting old is. I did a blood test yesterday and see

>the Dr. in a week. Before taking the Arimidex my nipples were

>acting up a little and I think that I am on a roller coaster ride

>with my E2 and this is doing me in. It is a shame that we can't get

>A dose of Arimidex for men so we can take it daily I am just at a

>loss my levels are all good.

I think the 10 day cycle doesn't work well. Arimidex has a half life

of about 48 hours.

I think what you're doing is like taking T shots ever 4 weeks. On

average it might look okay, but you spend very little time at average.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:18:15 -0400, you wrote:

>You probably need sometime like 0.05 to 0.1

>mg/day. With this scale you should be able to apply this dosage quite

>easily. As an engineer, you should know that there's nothing like the

>right tool for the job.

Ditto on this. I've been doing .25 mg every other day now, and it

seems to be working well. (But I'm only looking at the end of my

second week. I'm a little concerned that it may continue a long slow

slide.) But that's easier to deal with. I can stop a few days when the

fuzziness and lack of motivation and ambition return.

I have a science back ground my self, and I calculated the amount of

decrease I had with .5 mg every other day, and then looked at what I

thought my target should be (25 to 35) for E2 and worked from there

for a new dose.

The good news is you can split the tablets into 1/4s with a cutter

fairly easily.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:51:43 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> What is cortisol I did a search on it at the site I get my V and only found a

blocker for weight loss.

Cortisol is a gluccocorticoid. It is a chemical released to deal with

stress by the adrenal glands.

http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/adrenal/gluco.html

These chemicals trigger many different responses in stress situations

(part of the fight or flight syndrome). They shut down digestion,

turn off hunger, and help move energy to the muscles for the fight or

flight response.

Short burst increase memory. Every body remembers where they were when

Kennedy was shot. An intensified memory by gluccocorticoids. Long term

though they cause burn out and memory loss.

I go back to this:

http://www.teach12.com/ttc/assets/coursedescriptions/179.asp

I'll say it one more time - we should all listen to this set of

lectures. He talks at length about gluccocorticoids, and testosterone

and estrogen but in simple understandable laymen's terms.

Hey he even gives a 10 minute lecture on the physiology of the penis

and how an erection works. All the ED folks would like to hear that

lecture. (I didn't know before this that all primates get erections

during REM sleep. He talks about using this to determine the

difference between physiological and psychological ED issues.)

I just marveled at how this guy made all these complex things so

simple and understandable. He doesn't go into unnecessary detail. He

just draws the big picture lessons from excellent examples.

I do think you'd benefit from listening to this guy Phil. If you're

smart enough to be an engineer you're more than smart enough to get

all this guy has to say.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

,

I've heard that the upper range for TSH should be dropped from 5.5 to 3.5.

Even then TSH 2.98 doesn't seem " very very very bad " . I'm sure you don't

make such statements lightly, so I think I'm missing something. Would you

enlighten me?

Peace,

Bruce

> > Looking at your Thyroid test levels, it looks like you might have Adrenal

fatigue and

> > should look at getting on DHEA and cortisol. Or you could look at 's

Syndrome,

> but

> > if you don't fix the adrenals first, thyroid meds won't help as they should.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The .1% was a mistake, should be around 1%

The link is here:

85% of the population has a reading less then 2.35

http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html

The main point is to look at symptoms and blood levels. Someone on TRT and still

is not

doing well with a TSH of 2.98 and good T3-T4 blood levels indicates that the

T3-T4 is not

being used by the body. There may be many causes for that, but adrenal fatigue

stands

out.

My TSH is at 2.25 with normal T3-T4 and i know what adrenal fatigue is about and

i know

that Thyroid meds make the world of difference. My wife's TSH is at 3.46 and

normal T3-

T4, and Hydrocortisone and Thyroid meds has been the best thing to happen to

her. She

was on 16 grains a day of Armour and still was not doing as well as we thought

she

should, so we put her on 20mg of Hydrocortisone and now she is down to 6 grains

of

Armour a day. Can't stress enough that a TSH over say 1.5 and normal T3-T4 is a

real

cause for concern if the symptoms are there.

> > > Looking at your Thyroid test levels, it looks like you might have Adrenal

> fatigue and

> > > should look at getting on DHEA and cortisol. Or you could look at 's

> Syndrome,

> > but

> > > if you don't fix the adrenals first, thyroid meds won't help as they

should.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

- Thanks, that's solid information and advice. I understand now. - Bruce

> The .1% was a mistake, should be around 1%

>

> The link is here:

>

> 85% of the population has a reading less then 2.35

>

> http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html

>

> The main point is to look at symptoms and blood levels. Someone on TRT

and still is not

> doing well with a TSH of 2.98 and good T3-T4 blood levels indicates that the

T3-T4 is not

> being used by the body. There may be many causes for that, but adrenal

fatigue stands

> out.

>

> My TSH is at 2.25 with normal T3-T4 and i know what adrenal fatigue is

about and i know

> that Thyroid meds make the world of difference. My wife's TSH is at 3.46 and

normal T3-

> T4, and Hydrocortisone and Thyroid meds has been the best thing to

happen to her. She

> was on 16 grains a day of Armour and still was not doing as well as we

thought she

> should, so we put her on 20mg of Hydrocortisone and now she is down to 6

grains of

> Armour a day. Can't stress enough that a TSH over say 1.5 and normal

T3-T4 is a real

> cause for concern if the symptoms are there.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I see what you are talking about now. It was about 13 yrs. ago I

was getting pellets and the Dr. did a bunch of tests. He told me that my DHEA

was low and when I switched to a compounded cream he had the lab add DHEA to it.

When I was on this treatment I felt my best.

Phil

Bruce Harvey <bruceharvey@...> wrote:

- Thanks, that's solid information and advice. I understand now. - Bruce

> The .1% was a mistake, should be around 1%

>

> The link is here:

>

> 85% of the population has a reading less then 2.35

>

> http://www.thyroid.org.au/Information/NormalTSH.html

>

> The main point is to look at symptoms and blood levels. Someone on TRT

and still is not

> doing well with a TSH of 2.98 and good T3-T4 blood levels indicates that the

T3-T4 is not

> being used by the body. There may be many causes for that, but adrenal

fatigue stands

> out.

>

> My TSH is at 2.25 with normal T3-T4 and i know what adrenal fatigue is

about and i know

> that Thyroid meds make the world of difference. My wife's TSH is at 3.46 and

normal T3-

> T4, and Hydrocortisone and Thyroid meds has been the best thing to

happen to her. She

> was on 16 grains a day of Armour and still was not doing as well as we

thought she

> should, so we put her on 20mg of Hydrocortisone and now she is down to 6

grains of

> Armour a day. Can't stress enough that a TSH over say 1.5 and normal

T3-T4 is a real

> cause for concern if the symptoms are there.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I am but on my last vist to my Dr. I asked him if he was giveing Arimidex to

the other men he found with high E2. He said some of them but he found a med

that they can everyday I don't remember the name. But if it is working I will

try that.

Phil

swrtw2001 <no_reply > wrote:

Hey Phil,

Definately look into I think Z and Retro's suggestion of

getting an accurate scale to weigh 1/20 or 1/10 of an arimidex.

I definately think that would work better then taking .5 pills every

10 days as well.

Let us know.

> Hi on 07/20/04 was

> my last blood test.

> > > DHT was 140 range is 25 to 75 I am down from the last it was

169.

> > > Total T. 923 range 241 to 827 NG/DL

> > > Free T. 36.7 range is 10.8 to 24.6 PG/ML.

> > > Estradiol 48 up from <20 range is not given form Quest labs.

> >

> > How were you feeling on that day?

> >

> > How did you feel when your E2 was <20?

> >

> >

> >

> >