Re: HCG and DHT

September 13, 2005

HCG stimulates your testicles to produce T. The conversion of T to

DHT takes place in most body tissues, so everything else being equal,

increasing T should increase DHT in the tissues and to a lesser extent

serum DHT.

Because the T in transdermals have to cross the skin before entering

the blood system, a portion of the T is already converted to DHT

before it enters circulation raising serum DHT levels more than if the

T was produced endogenously.

I am not aware of any studies that relate the effects of HCG on DHT

conversion and serum DHT levels. There seems to be very little

research (medline) about T to DHT conversion other than for the

transdermals and a few tissue specific (prostate) studies.

> My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of increased

> DHT that come from transdermal applications.

>

> Is this correct?

> Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

>

> thanks in advance.

September 13, 2005

You know your stuff:)

Compounded gels that are applied to the genital area cause a far

greater hike in DHT levels as a result of the fact that the genital

area is packed with 5AR/androgen receptors.

What is known about HCG is that it causes significant increases in

E2 if the dose is anything approaching what is recommended by the

AACE- 1000mg upwards per dose. Gynecomastia is a very common side

effect when it comes to this type of use of HCG, far more so than

any form of testosterone with 1-3 men developing gynecomastia.

This may be as a result of intratesticular conversion as a result of

very low LH emission given that HCG mimics and reduces LH- at least

that has been supposed as a possibe reason for this action.

I can't say I know an awful lot as to the conversion testosterone to

DHT on HCG- certainly I would think in part it would depend on the

ability of the testicles to respond to the HCG- but I haven't seen

any studies on it.

> > My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of

increased

> > DHT that come from transdermal applications.

> >

> > Is this correct?

> > Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

> >

> > thanks in advance.

September 14, 2005

The AACE guidelines are for inducing fertility, I don't believe they

recommend HCG are part of TRT otherwise. With 1 in 3 men developing

gynecomastia, you better really want kids and really be willing to get

in touch with your feminine side On the up side, if you add a

little prolactin you can help with the breast feeding!

I just haven't been able to find anything that elucidates the effect

of HCG on DHT, either. It may not have been studied yet, possibly

because clinically no one has noticed a correlation?

The only major US study to examine TRT in males was canceled before it

began. To paraphrase Nature - This means the only large scale TRT

study currently going on is the one being done on the millions of men

now receiving TRT.

> > > My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of

> increased

> > > DHT that come from transdermal applications.

> > >

> > > Is this correct?

> > > Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

> > >

> > > thanks in advance.

September 14, 2005

This is what I have on HCG this link shows why we men on TRT need to add HCG a

low does.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

After a long time of searching this is the only link I could find that did not

talk about hair loss on DHT.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

This link talks about DHT using gels and HCG in low does's and HGH.

http://www.cenegenics.com/abstracts/abs11.html

More on DHT and E2.

http://tinyurl.com/5ftrn

And

http://tinyurl.com/6a49m

Phil

caos_n_harmony <caos_n_harmony@...> wrote:HCG stimulates your testicles to

produce T. The conversion of T to

DHT takes place in most body tissues, so everything else being equal,

increasing T should increase DHT in the tissues and to a lesser extent

serum DHT.

Because the T in transdermals have to cross the skin before entering

the blood system, a portion of the T is already converted to DHT

before it enters circulation raising serum DHT levels more than if the

T was produced endogenously.

I am not aware of any studies that relate the effects of HCG on DHT

conversion and serum DHT levels. There seems to be very little

research (medline) about T to DHT conversion other than for the

transdermals and a few tissue specific (prostate) studies.

> My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of increased

> DHT that come from transdermal applications.

>

> Is this correct?

> Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

>

> thanks in advance.

September 14, 2005

I read some where that men that had cancer in there testis and had to have them

removed made some T from other glains not sure witch ones so for a men that is

primary like me adding HCG to the protocol can only do good after all we have

not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG one takes will stimulate those still

function to produce endogenous testosterone. Hell my levels doubled adding HCG.

And yes my E2 went up also but I need to take something to keep my E2 in the

zone anyway so I feel at least for me HCG is great.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

You know your stuff:)

Compounded gels that are applied to the genital area cause a far

greater hike in DHT levels as a result of the fact that the genital

area is packed with 5AR/androgen receptors.

What is known about HCG is that it causes significant increases in

E2 if the dose is anything approaching what is recommended by the

AACE- 1000mg upwards per dose. Gynecomastia is a very common side

effect when it comes to this type of use of HCG, far more so than

any form of testosterone with 1-3 men developing gynecomastia.

This may be as a result of intratesticular conversion as a result of

very low LH emission given that HCG mimics and reduces LH- at least

that has been supposed as a possibe reason for this action.

I can't say I know an awful lot as to the conversion testosterone to

DHT on HCG- certainly I would think in part it would depend on the

ability of the testicles to respond to the HCG- but I haven't seen

any studies on it.

> > My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of

increased

> > DHT that come from transdermal applications.

> >

> > Is this correct?

> > Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

> >

> > thanks in advance.

September 14, 2005

The adrenal glans produce a small amount of T. The link below is for

an abstract indicating that there is no increase in T production from

the adrenal glands upon castration suggesting that the regulation of

adrenal T production is different than that of testicular T production.

Does anyone have any information on how T production is regulated in

the adrenal glands? The only thing I found is a poorly designed study

that suggests adrenal T production is regulated by level of serum T

and estrogen. The more serum T you have the more the adrenal glands

produce and the more estrogen you have the less T the adrenal glands

produce.

The effects of castration on adrenal testosterone secretion in men

with prostatic carcinoma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\

2830 & dopt=Abstract

Effects of gonadal androgens and oestrogens on adrenal androgen levels.

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1995 Oct;43(4):415-21

> > > My understanding is that HCG doesn't result in the levels of

> increased

> > > DHT that come from transdermal applications.

> > >

> > > Is this correct?

> > > Does anyone have anymore info on the relationship of HCG to DHT?

> > >

> > > thanks in advance.

>

September 14, 2005

Thanks I have to find the study I had and here is a link on Androgel and Testim

witch is better.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=12673669 & query_hl=5

Phil

caos_n_harmony <caos_n_harmony@...> wrote: