Low bone density

[Guest guest]

Hi All:

Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until tomorrow before I

can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady says I'm at

the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I have a small

frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds heavier than

I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is 30

additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a lesser sized

me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I know that

the test uses avarages for men of the same height and weight. Hell,

using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I was a 260

pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone density would

be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone know if I'm

right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums with whole

milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones back up.

Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago to run all

of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T with my Dr.

As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired all of the

time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife right now.

It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I swear that I

can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I see the

Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal so I can go

back on the gel!

Davec5465

[Guest guest]

I just posted on this same subject. I'm 23 and was Diangosed with

Osteoperosis, had the Dexa Scan last December and finally got a

doctor that would tell me what it says. It's possible you could be,

I am small framed as well. Very thin wrists and fingers. Anywho I

am now on Fosamax a medication taken once weekly to help my body

absorb calcium as well as 1500 mg of Calcium in the way of pills

taken daily along with drinking milk when I can and makign sure to

eat other calcium enriched foods.

> Hi All:

> Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until tomorrow before

I

> can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady says I'm

at

> the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I have a

small

> frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds heavier

than

> I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is 30

> additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a lesser

sized

> me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I know that

> the test uses avarages for men of the same height and weight.

Hell,

> using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I was a

260

> pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone density

would

> be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone know if

I'm

> right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums with

whole

> milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones back up.

> Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago to run

all

> of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T with my

Dr.

> As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired all of

the

> time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife right

now.

> It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I swear that

I

> can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I see the

> Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal so I can

go

> back on the gel!

> Davec5465

[Guest guest]

pohonehe / davec5465

I have posted in the past about the need to keep a careful eye on

bone density, when one suspects any form of hypogonadism.

In my case I was borderline going on the slope from osteopenia

(mild case) to osteoporosis. Over the course of 3 years my T and Z

scores continued to decline - in spite of diet and lifestyle changes

(added vitamins, mineral, and reduced coffee and sodas, more

sunshine, etc.), and only slowed in the rate of decline when taking

prescription biophosphonates like Actonel or Fosamax.

It was only when I went on hormone replacement therapies such as TRT

and HGH that the condition stabilized. With continued HRT treatment,

NO Actonel or Fosamx (or other meds), moderate weight training, and

no diet adjustments - my bone density completely improved and

reversed in under one year.

For those of you who understand the 'scores' I went from practically

negative 2 to a positive score above 1. That's dramatic and in no

small part due to an increase in testosterone (upper third of the

range) and HGH. As the doctor said, the clinical reports tell the

story.

Just my two cents...

AA

> > Hi All:

> > Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until tomorrow

before

> I

> > can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady says

I'm

> at

> > the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I have a

> small

> > frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds heavier

> than

> > I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is 30

> > additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a lesser

> sized

> > me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I know

that

> > the test uses avarages for men of the same height and weight.

> Hell,

> > using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I was a

> 260

> > pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone density

> would

> > be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone know if

> I'm

> > right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums with

> whole

> > milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones back up.

> > Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago to run

> all

> > of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T with my

> Dr.

> > As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired all of

> the

> > time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife right

> now.

> > It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I swear that

> I

> > can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I see the

> > Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal so I can

> go

> > back on the gel!

> > Davec5465

[Guest guest]

Well I have been on TRT since 14 and it hasn't helped my bones at

all. Had blood work done, of course all the doctor checked this

time was Free Testosterone, but anyways she said it was " high " But

if I was feeling fine then not to worry. She will do the other

tests at a later date. But the point is I have Osteoperosis even

though I have been on TRT since 14 and have had fairly stable levels

of testosterone in me. I guess I am just one of the lucky few where

the artificial testosterone doesn't help my bones.

> > > Hi All:

> > > Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until tomorrow

> before

> > I

> > > can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady says

> I'm

> > at

> > > the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I have a

> > small

> > > frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds

heavier

> > than

> > > I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is 30

> > > additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a lesser

> > sized

> > > me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I know

> that

> > > the test uses avarages for men of the same height and weight.

> > Hell,

> > > using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I was

a

> > 260

> > > pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone density

> > would

> > > be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone know

if

> > I'm

> > > right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums

with

> > whole

> > > milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones back up.

> > > Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago to

run

> > all

> > > of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T with

my

> > Dr.

> > > As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired all

of

> > the

> > > time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife

right

> > now.

> > > It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I swear

that

> > I

> > > can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I see

the

> > > Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal so I

can

> > go

> > > back on the gel!

> > > Davec5465

[Guest guest]

Any chance you were tested for HGH levels... Such as IGF-1?

According to the Doc, it is possible if you have secondary hypo (due

to pituitary and not testicular failure) that more than one of the

endocrine signals / hormone levels could be low for your age. I was

shown how the cells that produce LH, FSH, and HGH are in close

proximity along the anterior (front) of the small and delicate

pituitary in our heads.

[by the way, I was told that head trauma is a suspected cause of some

cases of ideopathic hypogonadism. ]

He made it clear that both T and HGH are synergistic, thereby

boosting or amplifing each other in repair, growth, and other systems

in our bodies.

I recall several discussions on Human Growth Hormone on this board.

It's worth checking into.

> > > > Hi All:

> > > > Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until tomorrow

> > before

> > > I

> > > > can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady

says

> > I'm

> > > at

> > > > the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I have

a

> > > small

> > > > frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds

> heavier

> > > than

> > > > I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is 30

> > > > additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a

lesser

> > > sized

> > > > me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I know

> > that

> > > > the test uses avarages for men of the same height and weight.

> > > Hell,

> > > > using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I was

> a

> > > 260

> > > > pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone

density

> > > would

> > > > be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone

know

> if

> > > I'm

> > > > right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums

> with

> > > whole

> > > > milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones back

up.

> > > > Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago to

> run

> > > all

> > > > of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T with

> my

> > > Dr.

> > > > As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired all

> of

> > > the

> > > > time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife

> right

> > > now.

> > > > It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I swear

> that

> > > I

> > > > can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I see

> the

> > > > Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal so I

> can

> > > go

> > > > back on the gel!

> > > > Davec5465

[Guest guest]

Well from what I know I was tested at the age of 14. I think it was

for hgh levels. It was about an hour or two long test where they

took blood levels every 15 minutes after injecting something in me.

They believe I do have secondary Hypo. As for how they got it.

Well I was born 5 weeks late, they believe that because I was not

born on time that I something happened to my pituitary gland at that

time. From what I was told all males produce testosteron for the

first month after their birth and then not it really slows down and

almost stops making it until puberty. From what they believe I

never made it that month after I was born.

<shrugs>

I've tried to get more answers but they never seem to know.

> > > > > Hi All:

> > > > > Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until

tomorrow

> > > before

> > > > I

> > > > > can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady

> says

> > > I'm

> > > > at

> > > > > the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I

have

> a

> > > > small

> > > > > frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds

> > heavier

> > > > than

> > > > > I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is

30

> > > > > additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a

> lesser

> > > > sized

> > > > > me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I

know

> > > that

> > > > > the test uses avarages for men of the same height and

weight.

> > > > Hell,

> > > > > using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I

was

> > a

> > > > 260

> > > > > pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone

> density

> > > > would

> > > > > be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone

> know

> > if

> > > > I'm

> > > > > right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of tums

> > with

> > > > whole

> > > > > milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones

back

> up.

> > > > > Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago

to

> > run

> > > > all

> > > > > of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T

with

> > my

> > > > Dr.

> > > > > As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired

all

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife

> > right

> > > > now.

> > > > > It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I

swear

> > that

> > > > I

> > > > > can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I

see

> > the

> > > > > Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal

so I

> > can

> > > > go

> > > > > back on the gel!

> > > > > Davec5465

[Guest guest]

Well clearly you have a more complex situation than some of us, and

beyond my personal expiriences.

You did, however, indicate that your condition is pituitary based

(secondary hypo) and as such your associated HGH levels at 14 are a

good baseline and could be much lower now, functionally speaking. (As

indicated before there is a correlation in FSH, LH, and HGH output

and bio-synergy.) Have you ever read the book The Testosterone

Syndrome, by Dr. Eugene Shippen? It has been very helpful for many on

this board - and their doctors!

It is possible that a dramatic decline in HGH can happen a decade or

two after the onset of puberty. Think of it this way: an already weak

pituitary gave all that it could during the onset of puberty, but was

so taxed that it could no longer produce significant quantities or

pulse regularly (many of the endocrine messenger signals are

controlled in a pulsing feedback loop.).

It is quite normal for our HGH levels to gradually decline as we age.

In some of us it happens sooner and more sharply than others. Some

Doctors are only begining to understand this and are attacking it as

a treatable condition, ie. Andropause, life extention, anti-aging.

Beyond that....There are others of us on this board who have had to

turn to genetic testing in order to prove or disprove additional

factors or bio-chemical mediators.

Perhaps someone else on this board can address this path with you.

> > > > > > Hi All:

> > > > > > Had the dexa scan yesterday...I have to wait until

> tomorrow

> > > > before

> > > > > I

> > > > > > can get the printed result from my Endo.>>>>Lab tech lady

> > says

> > > > I'm

> > > > > at

> > > > > > the borderline between low and normal. I'm only 38....I

> have

> > a

> > > > > small

> > > > > > frame (and have all my life) and I'm probably 60 pounds

> > > heavier

> > > > > than

> > > > > > I was 10 years ago (200 lb.) I'd say the extra weight is

> 30

> > > > > > additional lbs muscle and 30 fat. Is it possible that a

> > lesser

> > > > > sized

> > > > > > me would have been significantly higher on this scale? I

> know

> > > > that

> > > > > > the test uses avarages for men of the same height and

> weight.

> > > > > Hell,

> > > > > > using that, what if I was a 300 pound lard ass. What if I

> was

> > > a

> > > > > 260

> > > > > > pound muscle man? It would seem plausible that my bone

> > density

> > > > > would

> > > > > > be normal if I happened to be 140 lbs. again. Does anyone

> > know

> > > if

> > > > > I'm

> > > > > > right? I probably need to just start eating a bowl of

tums

> > > with

> > > > > whole

> > > > > > milk for breakfast and hope that I can build the bones

> back

> > up.

> > > > > > Incidentally, the endo. took me off of T gels 2 weeks ago

> to

> > > run

> > > > > all

> > > > > > of the prudent tests that were not run when I started T

> with

> > > my

> > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > As you would probably guess, I'm noticing that I'm tired

> all

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > time, sleep more and am not really interested in the wife

> > > right

> > > > > now.

> > > > > > It is probably an awareness/psychological issue, but I

> swear

> > > that

> > > > > I

> > > > > > can feel the result! I can't wait until November 3 when I

> see

> > > the

> > > > > > Endo. again and hope like hell the PSA reading is normal

> so I

> > > can

> > > > > go

> > > > > > back on the gel!

> > > > > > Davec5465

[Guest guest]

Hello,

Did you do DEXA? Do you know how your osteopenia progresses either in scores or

in percents over time? Did you ask an gyn- endocrinologist about option

treatments?

I have no PsA (I'm in the list because of my sister), but have some osteopenia

and low vitamin D (less than 30) as well, I'm 37 though. My husband is healthy

and jogging three times a week for 30 min and have low vitamin D as well. My

primer physician told me to do wait bearing exercise and take additional

vitamin D.

I think many many people have low vitamin D. I think smart wait bearing

exercise may improve the situation, but be very careful and ask your doctor

first. Lots of info about it is on the web. Calcium is also perhaps better

consumed from natural sources. Calcium carbonate is better to take with meal,

calcium citrate is ok taking separately from a meal.

Tatyana.

[Guest guest]

Hi Patty,

That's a mouthful. I have severe osteoporosis in the hip, and osteopenia in the

spine. I was extremely lucky to come upon a physician who, before he laid eyes

on me, had me have a bone density scan. I went to him to see if he would work

with me using Vitamin D therapy for my psoriatic a. He had done a small study

with others here in Boston with favorable results for psoriatic a. patients. I

give myself credit also, since if I hadn't been prowling around in a nearby med

school library, I would not have known about this physician.

Vitamin D therapy, 50,000 units every two weeks has helped basically to

stabilize me, with about 1,100 to 1,200 milligrams of calcium daily.

Incidentally, I was one who got no arthritis benefit from the D therapy.

If I were you? One thing I'd do would be to read my physician's new book,

entitled The Vitamin D Solution. Dr. Holick. Holick is one of the

world's most renowned authorities on Vitamin D. His book is really readable, and

maybe there is something in it that you could take to your doctor for

discussion.

Prednisone absolutely will nail your bones. Holick told me when I had asked your

same question that having psoriatic a. does not by itself imply bone loss. He

attributes my bone loss to deficiency in D.

What are you doing for the fibro, since you indicate it's the most difficult? I

like reading, for sure. If you do, try Dr. Teitelbaum's From Fatigued to

Fantastic.

This is a fine read, as it describes his own protocol for FM and chronic fatigue

- he had these conditions as a med student, if you can imagine. His website:

www.endfatigue.com

 

Another doctor worth checking out is Dr.Alan Gaby, who has written a book about

women and osteoporosis that, despite being " old " ,1994, is quite good. He

describes an array of things he has used to treat women. Preventing and

Reversing Osteoporosis. He is an MD who over the years has come to have enormous

respect for nutritional medicine as a complement to standard medical treatment. 

Here's hoping for your progress..........

Don

Boston