Re: What happened to this link.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:19:26 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

>Nothing comes up.

>Phil

Looks like they pulled it. It was another group. Perhaps you can

post and get them to repost it or send the file to you for posting

here?

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil check out How real is the male menopause, that may help.

Later.

>

> Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

> Nothing comes up.

> Phil

[Guest guest]

Sorry Phil,

Try this...........

http://f2.grp.fs.com/v1/IFHFQZTUWPvNtWNDmDKioCwdqvlPuGQ6ZsowA3Om

Kn8O_F6bj7LMnWcNnefXYSSi8Lofa52F6CugLAB7NICcm0xLB2M7bhcqMXk/How%

20real%20is%20the%20male%20menopause%3F.pdf

> >

> > Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

> > Nothing comes up.

> > Phil

[Guest guest]

> >Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

> >Nothing comes up.

> >Phil

>

> Looks like they pulled it. It was another group. Perhaps

> you can post and get them to repost it or send the file to you

> for posting here?

I developed this table from an article that appears at

www.wellmanclinic.org. Someone posted the link to this article in the

ASI newsgroup back in July 2000. The original tables were based on the

values of measurement commonly used in Europe. Someone else posted the

conversion factor of 28.83. So I clipboarded it into Excel and did the

conversion. Then someone else formatted it for the ASI website.

I modified my tables into a Word document and posted them in the files

section of this group.

- Z

[Guest guest]

> No it dose not work. I need it for a guy in the UK.

> Phil

Just divide the table I posted in the files section by 28.85 and you'll

have the original table. I think that units of measurement used in the

original table from the article were in nmol/L, but I'm not sure.

- Z

[Guest guest]

Thanks it is just a dam shame we lost this it was good for men that have

Dr.'s that would look at a test result and say you are in the normal range.

Most Dr.'s when shown this normal ranges for ages wake up and smell the coffee.

Phil

Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

> No it dose not work. I need it for a guy in the UK.

> Phil

Just divide the table I posted in the files section by 28.85 and you'll

have the original table. I think that units of measurement used in the

original table from the article were in nmol/L, but I'm not sure.

- Z

[Guest guest]

>>>>>> Thanks it is just a dam shame we lost this... it was good

for men that have Dr.'s that would look at a test result and say you are

in the normal range. Most Dr.'s when shown this normal ranges for ages

wake up and smell the coffee.

> Phil<<<<<<

I don't understand. What did we lose? It's now in the files section.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free, LH,

and it had it all.<<<<

Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH. The

table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

the old table had except the original values in the common European unit

of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table by

28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just don't

understand what you're complaining about.

[Guest guest]

You made this one here is cut & past on the link.

Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

xyz23

http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

When it would come up it had a color back ground I think RED and GREEN.

I sent the one you put in the files and this guy is so sick he can't think

straight I hope he can understand it.

Her is a cut & paste on his post it sounds like my story.

Phil

[ Reply | Next | Previous | Up ]

51yr old UK male needs help?

From:

Date: 16/12/2004

Time: 16:24:27

Remote Name: 193.195.21.194

Comments

Hi folks, I'm educated, managerial position, work in audiology with a high IQ

but the NHS treat me so bad that I signed my last letter to them with my

hospital number because that is all I felt I was. OK gripe over:PROBLEM: Over

the last 10 years: 1. Started with panic attacks 2. Fatigue crept in very

slowly, now it is debilitating. 3. My concentration is now very poor. 4. My

memory is a standing joke at work. 5. Brain fog is awful. 6. Libido NIL 7. ED

....total 8. I ache all over. My 'T' has been checked over the last 3 months as

follows: 7.5;10.5;8.5; & the last one 12.5. My endocrinologist says that these

are mostly within normal limits of 8 to 29, so 'T' is not a problem. All other

tests thyroid etc I'm told are 'within normal limits' I have after a big battle

managed to have my blood sampled at Barts in London (140miles from home), but

have to await February for the results and my 5 mins with the consultant. What

questions should I be asking? I would just like to regain cognitive

ability and energy. Oh yes, and a decent nights sleep. Your help would be very

much appreciated as I feel I must take this up myself or I will never get

anywhere with our NHS. Should you ever consider self treatment, I'm aware of the

prostrate connection. Any UK men out there with an answer, or advice from the

USA?

---------------------------------

Last changed: December 16, 2004

Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

>>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free, LH,

and it had it all.<<<<

Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH. The

table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

the old table had except the original values in the common European unit

of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table by

28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just don't

understand what you're complaining about.

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I calculated the numbers and Fred from ASI formatted them onto the ASI

web site.

I developed this table from an article that appears at

www.wellmanclinic.org. A guy named zchuss posted the link to this

article in the ASI newsgroup back in July 2000. The original tables

were based on the values of measurement commonly used in Europe. A guy

named Steve posted the conversion factor of 28.85. So I clipboarded the

table data into Excel, did the conversion and then posted the converted

table in the ASI newsgroup. Then Fred formatted my table data, and the

original table with the European values, on the ASI website.

Here's the original thread that describes how the table was created:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.impotence/browse_frm/thr

ead/1cf73c65b376110c/bcfaa694027e6a59?q=teamwork & _done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.su

pport.impotence%2Fsearch%3Fgroup%3Dalt.support.impotence%26q%3Dteamwork%

26qt_g%3D1%26searchnow%3DSearch+this+group%26 & _doneTitle=Back+to+Search &

& d#bcfaa694027e6a59

Re: Re: What happened to this link.

>

> You made this one here is cut & past on the link.

> Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

> xyz23

> http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

> When it would come up it had a color back ground I think RED and

GREEN.

> I sent the one you put in the files and this guy is so sick he can't

think straight I hope he can understand it.

> Her is a cut & paste on his post it sounds like my story.

> Phil

>

>

>

> [ Reply | Next | Previous | Up ]

> 51yr old UK male needs help?

> From:

> Date: 16/12/2004

> Time: 16:24:27

> Remote Name: 193.195.21.194

>

> Comments

> Hi folks, I'm educated, managerial position, work in audiology with a

high IQ but the NHS treat me so bad that I signed my last letter to them

with my hospital number because that is all I felt I was. OK gripe

over:PROBLEM: Over the last 10 years: 1. Started with panic attacks 2.

Fatigue crept in very slowly, now it is debilitating. 3. My

concentration is now very poor. 4. My memory is a standing joke at work.

5. Brain fog is awful. 6. Libido NIL 7. ED ...total 8. I ache all over.

My 'T' has been checked over the last 3 months as follows:

7.5;10.5;8.5; & the last one 12.5. My endocrinologist says that these are

mostly within normal limits of 8 to 29, so 'T' is not a problem. All

other tests thyroid etc I'm told are 'within normal limits' I have after

a big battle managed to have my blood sampled at Barts in London

(140miles from home), but have to await February for the results and my

5 mins with the consultant. What questions should I be asking? I would

just like to regain cognitive

> ability and energy. Oh yes, and a decent nights sleep. Your help

would be very much appreciated as I feel I must take this up myself or I

will never get anywhere with our NHS. Should you ever consider self

treatment, I'm aware of the prostrate connection. Any UK men out there

with an answer, or advice from the USA?

>

> ---------------------------------

> Last changed: December 16, 2004

>

> Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

> >>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

> ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free,

LH,

> and it had it all.<<<<

>

> Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

>

> Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH.

The

> table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

> the old table had except the original values in the common European

unit

> of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table

by

> 28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just

don't

> understand what you're complaining about.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

The info. is for T, free T & SHBG. I took info. from the non-working link:

http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

pasted to Excel, re-formatted & pasted it to MS Word. Makes me really

appreciate Z's work.

It includes the info. in international units. Hope that helps your friend.

I replaced the Explorer file that didn't open with the Word document, in the

files section, titled: Testosterone Levels by Age Grp.

Bruce

> >>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

> ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free, LH,

> and it had it all.<<<<

>

> Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

>

> Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH. The

> table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

> the old table had except the original values in the common European unit

> of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table by

> 28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just don't

> understand what you're complaining about.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Phil,

>

> The info. is for T, free T & SHBG. I took info. from the non-working

link:

> http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

> pasted to Excel, re-formatted & pasted it to MS Word. Makes me really

> appreciate Z's work.

>

> It includes the info. in international units. Hope that helps your

friend.

>

> I replaced the Explorer file that didn't open with the Word document,

in the

> files section, titled: Testosterone Levels by Age Grp.

That one works! Nice job, Bruce.

BTW, I omitted the SHBG from my table because I believe the US values

are incorrect. I multiplied the European SHBG values by the same 28.85

factor, but IIRC that's not the appropriate factor for the SHBG. I

forget exactly why.

- Z

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

Your right: The conventional-IU conversion factor for testosterone doesn't

work for SHBG.

My lab reports (in U.S.) use 13-71 nmol/L for SHBG (R: 13-71) I suspect

nmol/L units are used both in the U.S. and internationally. But if that's true,

why were the units converted on the Sex Hormones by Age Group table?

I just put a new URL in the links section here, titled " Unit Conversion

Factors " .

It lists factors for about everything but SHBG.

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/clinical_data.html

Peace,

Bruce

>

> That one works! Nice job, Bruce.

>

> BTW, I omitted the SHBG from my table because I believe the US values

> are incorrect. I multiplied the European SHBG values by the same 28.85

> factor, but IIRC that's not the appropriate factor for the SHBG. I

> forget exactly why.

>

> - Z

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Z " <davidzxxx2004@s...>

> BTW, I omitted the SHBG from my table because I believe the US values

> are incorrect. I multiplied the European SHBG values by the same 28.85

> factor, but IIRC that's not the appropriate factor for the SHBG. I

> forget exactly why.

>

> - Z

Because the molecular weight of SHBG is different from that of

testosterone. So a mole of SHBG has a different mass than a mole of

testosterone.

Brad

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:19:41 -0500, you wrote:

>

>> Hi Phil,

>>

>> The info. is for T, free T & SHBG. I took info. from the non-working

>link:

>> http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

>> pasted to Excel, re-formatted & pasted it to MS Word. Makes me really

>> appreciate Z's work.

>>

>> It includes the info. in international units. Hope that helps your

>friend.

>>

>> I replaced the Explorer file that didn't open with the Word document,

>in the

>> files section, titled: Testosterone Levels by Age Grp.

>

>That one works! Nice job, Bruce.

>

>BTW, I omitted the SHBG from my table because I believe the US values

>are incorrect. I multiplied the European SHBG values by the same 28.85

>factor, but IIRC that's not the appropriate factor for the SHBG. I

>forget exactly why.

I believe that conversion only works for T and Free T. It's based on

weight. One of the measure is molar. And that a weight /per standard

unit (avogadros constant) of atoms. So each compound has its own

conversion number.

The table used to have the two studies the numbers came from. it would

be great to get those back in. I find doctors need those to over come

skepticism.

Thanks!

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

> Hi Dave,

>

> Your right: The conventional-IU conversion factor for testosterone

doesn't

> work for SHBG.

>

> My lab reports (in U.S.) use 13-71 nmol/L for SHBG (R: 13-71) I

suspect

> nmol/L units are used both in the U.S. and internationally. But if

that's true,

> why were the units converted on the Sex Hormones by Age Group table?

Because when I copied the data into Excel, I applied the 28.85 factor to

all values the table. It turns out that the 28.85 factor is the right

factor for every item in the table except SHBG. The error was caught

after the table was formatted and posted to the web. The guy who

formatted it (Fred) was informed, but he never bothered to correct the

error.

[Guest guest]

> The table used to have the two studies the numbers came from. it would

> be great to get those back in. I find doctors need those to over come

> skepticism.

The table Bruce posted has all that information in the footnotes. I'll

delete my table from the files section since Bruce's table has

everything mine has plus the source references for the studies. Also,

Bruce should delete the converted SHBG values because, as discussed in

the thread, those values are erroneous.

[Guest guest]

> > The table used to have the two studies the numbers came from. it would

> > be great to get those back in. I find doctors need those to over come

> > skepticism.

>

> The table Bruce posted has all that information in the footnotes. I'll

> delete my table from the files section since Bruce's table has

> everything mine has plus the source references for the studies. Also,

> Bruce should delete the converted SHBG values because, as discussed in

> the thread, those values are erroneous.

LabCorp uses nmol/l so conversion may not be necessary. If it is, we

can sort that out later.

Brad

[Guest guest]

Thanks I tryed to send it to but it would not work so I asked him

to send me and e-mail so I could send him a cut & paste.

Phil

Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

Phil,

I calculated the numbers and Fred from ASI formatted them onto the ASI

web site.

I developed this table from an article that appears at

www.wellmanclinic.org. A guy named zchuss posted the link to this

article in the ASI newsgroup back in July 2000. The original tables

were based on the values of measurement commonly used in Europe. A guy

named Steve posted the conversion factor of 28.85. So I clipboarded the

table data into Excel, did the conversion and then posted the converted

table in the ASI newsgroup. Then Fred formatted my table data, and the

original table with the European values, on the ASI website.

Here's the original thread that describes how the table was created:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.impotence/browse_frm/thr

ead/1cf73c65b376110c/bcfaa694027e6a59?q=teamwork & _done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.su

pport.impotence%2Fsearch%3Fgroup%3Dalt.support.impotence%26q%3Dteamwork%

26qt_g%3D1%26searchnow%3DSearch+this+group%26 & _doneTitle=Back+to+Search &

& d#bcfaa694027e6a59

Re: Re: What happened to this link.

>

> You made this one here is cut & past on the link.

> Testosterone Levels by Age Groups

> xyz23

> http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

> When it would come up it had a color back ground I think RED and

GREEN.

> I sent the one you put in the files and this guy is so sick he can't

think straight I hope he can understand it.

> Her is a cut & paste on his post it sounds like my story.

> Phil

>

>

>

> [ Reply | Next | Previous | Up ]

> 51yr old UK male needs help?

> From:

> Date: 16/12/2004

> Time: 16:24:27

> Remote Name: 193.195.21.194

>

> Comments

> Hi folks, I'm educated, managerial position, work in audiology with a

high IQ but the NHS treat me so bad that I signed my last letter to them

with my hospital number because that is all I felt I was. OK gripe

over:PROBLEM: Over the last 10 years: 1. Started with panic attacks 2.

Fatigue crept in very slowly, now it is debilitating. 3. My

concentration is now very poor. 4. My memory is a standing joke at work.

5. Brain fog is awful. 6. Libido NIL 7. ED ...total 8. I ache all over.

My 'T' has been checked over the last 3 months as follows:

7.5;10.5;8.5; & the last one 12.5. My endocrinologist says that these are

mostly within normal limits of 8 to 29, so 'T' is not a problem. All

other tests thyroid etc I'm told are 'within normal limits' I have after

a big battle managed to have my blood sampled at Barts in London

(140miles from home), but have to await February for the results and my

5 mins with the consultant. What questions should I be asking? I would

just like to regain cognitive

> ability and energy. Oh yes, and a decent nights sleep. Your help

would be very much appreciated as I feel I must take this up myself or I

will never get anywhere with our NHS. Should you ever consider self

treatment, I'm aware of the prostrate connection. Any UK men out there

with an answer, or advice from the USA?

>

> ---------------------------------

> Last changed: December 16, 2004

>

> Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

> >>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

> ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free,

LH,

> and it had it all.<<<<

>

> Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

>

> Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH.

The

> table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

> the old table had except the original values in the common European

unit

> of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table

by

> 28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just

don't

> understand what you're complaining about.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > Bruce should delete the converted SHBG values because,

> > as discussed in the thread, those values are erroneous.

>

> LabCorp uses nmol/l so conversion may not be necessary. If it is, we

> can sort that out later.

> Brad

I'm saying Bruce should delete the SHBG values on the " US " table, not

the European table. Alternatively, you could replace the US SHBG values

with the European SHBG values and label them as nmol/L. That way both

tables would show the SHBG values in the same units.

I think when SHBG is tested in the US it's in nmol/L. Actually, SHBG is

not tested in the US that often. In the US, doctors test for Free T

instead, which generally gives them the same data. If SHBG is high,

then Free T is low and vice versa, because the more SHBG present, the

more it binds to T and the less Free T there is.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bruce that is the one now if I could only figure out how to send it as a

link or file.

Phil

Bruce <bruceharvey@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

The info. is for T, free T & SHBG. I took info. from the non-working link:

http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

pasted to Excel, re-formatted & pasted it to MS Word. Makes me really

appreciate Z's work.

It includes the info. in international units. Hope that helps your friend.

I replaced the Explorer file that didn't open with the Word document, in the

files section, titled: Testosterone Levels by Age Grp.

Bruce

> >>>>>>Thanks I guess you never saw the old one it had ranges for all

> ages and the US, and UK unit of measure. Also it had Total, Free, LH,

> and it had it all.<<<<

>

> Phil, I *made* the old one!!!!!!

>

> Unless they changed if afterwards, the old table did *not* have LH. The

> table I put in the files section today has all the same information as

> the old table had except the original values in the common European unit

> of measure which you can get just by dividing the values in my table by

> 28.85. If you want me to do that for you let me know, but I just don't

> understand what you're complaining about.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Bruce that is the one now if I could only figure out how to

send it as a link or file.

> Phil

>

The link is burdensome. If you can use Internet Explorer, simply

right-click the document title and select " Save Target as ... " from

the context menu. That will let you save the file to your local disk.

Brad

[Guest guest]

Hi,

1. I've corrected the tables in the file " Testosterone Levels by Age Grp. " ,

notice of the new file has just been sent.

2. I found the tables as part of an article at another web page:

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

These tables still have the incorrect numbers for U.S. SHBG.

I've just added it in the links section here as " Testosterone Levels by Age

Groups 2 "

Bruce

[Guest guest]

> 1. I've corrected the tables in the file " Testosterone Levels

> by Age Grp. " , notice of the new file has just been sent.

Thanks again, Bruce.

> 2. I found the tables as part of an article at another web page:

> http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

> These tables still have the incorrect numbers for U.S. SHBG.

> I've just added it in the links section here as " Testosterone Levels

by Age

> Groups 2 "

They copied the table without giving any credit to the source? I wonder

if they'd be interested in knowing there's an error in the table. Maybe

then they'd give credit to the source. :-)

[Guest guest]

>

> > http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

>

> They copied the table without giving any credit to the source? I wonder

> if they'd be interested in knowing there's an error in the table. Maybe

> then they'd give credit to the source. :-)

Yeah, that's a riot. If their going to steal intellectual property they should

at

least proofread it.