Re: Difference in Estradiol vs Estrone readings...

[Guest guest]

You need to add arimidex or aromasin to the mix if you want to feel

better. Your estradiol is too high. I don't know much about estrone,

but the key indicator is estradiol, and it is too high. You will

have much better luck with your treatment if you can bring it down.

The way to do that is with Arimidex.

Armyguy

> Got the lab results from my doc the other day. My estradiol is 81

> (range <56) but my estrone is 39 (range <65). Is this peculiar or

do

> these numbers make sense? The doc didn't seem to think it should

> indicate a change in my weekly injection dosage (150 mg).

>

> I'm a 48 year old male, moderately overweight. Best T level so

far

> is 365 on Androgel. Lowest (and probably close to where I'm at

now)

> is 198.

[Guest guest]

> > Got the lab results from my doc

> < the other day. My estradiol is 81

> > (range <56) but my estrone is 39 (range <65).

> > Is this peculiar or do these numbers make sense?

> > The doc didn't seem to think it should

> > indicate a change in my weekly injection dosage (150 mg).

> > I'm a 48 year old male, moderately overweight.

> > Best T level so far is 365 on Androgel.

> > Lowest (and probably close to where I'm at now) is 198.

>

> You need to add arimidex or aromasin

> to the mix if you want to feel

> better. Your estradiol is too high.

> I don't know much about estrone,

> but the key indicator is estradiol,

> and it is too high. You will

> have much better luck with your

> treatment if you can bring it down.

> The way to do that is with Arimidex.

I disagree with this assessment. With a T level that low, lowering

his E2 will probably make him feel worse. When T is that low, E2 is

substituting for T. Take away the E2 and you have nothing.

He needs to raise his T first, then worry about E2 balance.

Also, IMHO, DIM should be tried first for E2 management. It's a much

better alternative if it works for you.

[Guest guest]

Having Estradiol (E2) high and Estrone (E1) high can certainly make

sense. E2 is aromatized from Testosterone, E1 is aromatized from

DHEA. Likely your DHEA levels are pretty low. Your high E2 indicates

the existence of significant aromatase in your system.

Using an aromatase inhibitor like Arimedex or Aromasin will raise

your T levels by virtue of preventing the conversion of T to E2. But

I agree with the previous post in that you should seek to raise your

T while minimizing your E2.

y

>

> > > Got the lab results from my doc

> > < the other day. My estradiol is 81

> > > (range <56) but my estrone is 39 (range <65).

> > > Is this peculiar or do these numbers make sense?

> > > The doc didn't seem to think it should

> > > indicate a change in my weekly injection dosage (150 mg).

> > > I'm a 48 year old male, moderately overweight.

> > > Best T level so far is 365 on Androgel.

> > > Lowest (and probably close to where I'm at now) is 198.

> >

> > You need to add arimidex or aromasin

> > to the mix if you want to feel

> > better. Your estradiol is too high.

> > I don't know much about estrone,

> > but the key indicator is estradiol,

> > and it is too high. You will

> > have much better luck with your

> > treatment if you can bring it down.

> > The way to do that is with Arimidex.

>

> I disagree with this assessment. With a T level that low, lowering

> his E2 will probably make him feel worse. When T is that low, E2

is

> substituting for T. Take away the E2 and you have nothing.

>

> He needs to raise his T first, then worry about E2 balance.

>

> Also, IMHO, DIM should be tried first for E2 management. It's a

much

> better alternative if it works for you.

[Guest guest]

> Using an aromatase inhibitor like

> Arimedex or Aromasin will raise

> your T levels by virtue of preventing

> the conversion of T to E2. But

> I agree with the previous post in

> that you should seek to raise your

> T while minimizing your E2.

y,

For a man with T in the 200 to 300 range, the amount of increase in T

that would result from taking an anti-aromataze is insignificant,

IMHO. That's why I suspect that he would lose more than he would

gain from taking an anti-aromataze without doing something to get his

T into the upper normal range.

-

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:04:50 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>> Using an aromatase inhibitor like

>> Arimedex or Aromasin will raise

>> your T levels by virtue of preventing

>> the conversion of T to E2. But

>> I agree with the previous post in

>> that you should seek to raise your

>> T while minimizing your E2.

>

>y,

>

>For a man with T in the 200 to 300 range, the amount of increase in T

>that would result from taking an anti-aromataze is insignificant,

>IMHO. That's why I suspect that he would lose more than he would

>gain from taking an anti-aromataze without doing something to get his

>T into the upper normal range.

>

> -

See this study, it suggests the effects can be significant

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15001605

[Guest guest]

>

> See this study, it suggests the effects can be significant

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15001605

The strange thing about Arimidex is that its clinical results (i.e.,

how you feel, quality of life, etc.) have never lived up to the

numbers it produces. This has always been a mystery to me as well as

every knowledgable source I've read or talked with.

There have been numerous reports of men with very strong erections

(morning and otherwise) from taking DIM. I haven't heard any such

claims from men taking Arimidex. Also, the body building community

doesn't see much value in Arimidex. The numbers say that it should

have much more benefit than it does in practice. But it doesn't.

Don't go by the numbers alone.

Think about it. If Arimidex was such an easy solution, why wouldn't

it be more widely used for IHH? BTW, Shippen refused to give it to

me for years. He obviously doesn't think much of it.

Lastly, regarding the study you cited, it took 1 mg/day to increase T

level from 350 to 575. How many men do you know take 1 mg/day of

Arimidex? Have you ever taken that much? Do you think that that

amount of increase in T is worth taking 1 mg/day of Arimidex?

[Guest guest]

. I completely agree.

But also know that his E2 very likely will rise right along with his

T if he uses shots or gels.

>

> > Using an aromatase inhibitor like

> > Arimedex or Aromasin will raise

> > your T levels by virtue of preventing

> > the conversion of T to E2. But

> > I agree with the previous post in

> > that you should seek to raise your

> > T while minimizing your E2.

>

> y,

>

> For a man with T in the 200 to 300 range, the amount of increase in

T

> that would result from taking an anti-aromataze is insignificant,

> IMHO. That's why I suspect that he would lose more than he would

> gain from taking an anti-aromataze without doing something to get

his

> T into the upper normal range.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

> when I was able to lower my E2 my erections

> came back big time and I can now have an orgasm.

> It has been 15 yrs of suffering form ED and not

> being able to reach an orgasm. I don't think

> Arimidex is giving me this back I feel it is

> the E2 going down. I don't think it is how you

> get the E2 down but getting it down makes your

> Dick work again. It did for me. I tryed DIM, Soy

> all of the over the counter stuff and none of

> them worked for me.

What lowered your E2?

[Guest guest]

,

I will concur with you on Arimidex, it never really helped me even at

1mg daily, which I took for 6 weeks. Arimidex only temporarily binds

to the atromatase enzyme and may be why it did not work for me. I

was the prescribed Femera, which permenently binds to aromatase, and

had great success in very short order, and I felt great.

y

> >

> > See this study, it suggests the effects can be significant

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15001605

>

> The strange thing about Arimidex is that its clinical results

(i.e.,

> how you feel, quality of life, etc.) have never lived up to the

> numbers it produces. This has always been a mystery to me as well

as

> every knowledgable source I've read or talked with.

>

> There have been numerous reports of men with very strong erections

> (morning and otherwise) from taking DIM. I haven't heard any such

> claims from men taking Arimidex. Also, the body building community

> doesn't see much value in Arimidex. The numbers say that it should

> have much more benefit than it does in practice. But it doesn't.

> Don't go by the numbers alone.

>

> Think about it. If Arimidex was such an easy solution, why

wouldn't

> it be more widely used for IHH? BTW, Shippen refused to give it to

> me for years. He obviously doesn't think much of it.

>

> Lastly, regarding the study you cited, it took 1 mg/day to increase

T

> level from 350 to 575. How many men do you know take 1 mg/day of

> Arimidex? Have you ever taken that much? Do you think that that

> amount of increase in T is worth taking 1 mg/day of Arimidex?

[Guest guest]

Let's be clear here.

For david arimidex is not a good solution. For y it was not

either. For Dim is a good solution. For y, pellets are

great. I can't comment much on the pellets, and most people that

have taken them seem to like them, and that is great, definitely a

viable solution, but I can comment on the DIM.

That is great that DIM works well for . Unfortunately, DIM does

not work nearly so well for most other men that are on TRT and need

to keep their estradiol down. I have read this from many many men,

that DIM does not do the trick in keeping their estradiol down.

Note, that is on low dose HCG shots, which very likely have

less of a aromatisation effect than T Cyp shots and other for of

testosterone replacement therapy, even including higher dose HCG

shots.

Anyway, please don't make blanket statements about Arimidex because

they are unfounded and untrue. It is good to speak of personal

experience, but it is wrong to assume that if something isn't the

ideal solution for you then it is not for someone else.

, you say that Arimidex is not popular in the bodybuilding

community, however, you are completely incorrect. For bodybuilders

using testosterone in their steroid stack, Arimidex is the drug of

choice to keep estradiol down.

Arimidex is powerful stuff. For those suffering from gynomastia and

plain feeling like crap from high estradiol, Arimidex is a surefire

way for most men to bring their e2 into the right level and feel the

benefits.

However, Arimidex is a powerful drug to be respected. The problem

that you say, where you get your e2 down, but don't feel great, is

99% most likely because you end up taking too much arimidex. The

stuff is so powerful it will bring e2 into too low of a level and

make a guy feel the same as he did when it is high. That is if you

take too much.

So you have to work with the drug and only take it as minimally as

possible, and it is a great tool, and I would say, and probably the

best tool, to manage estradiol that is currently available to most

of us. Other drugs like Aromasin might be great too.

AGAIN NOTE: The trick with arimidex is not to take too much! For

some men, that means as little as 1/2 pill every 5 days.

As for DIM, it may be helpful, but the vast majority of people who

post on these boards (and ASI) and who have used DIM say that it was

not enough to keep their estradiol in check. All I am saying, is

that one solution doesn't work for everyone and it is not correct to

say that a drug like arimidex, which is successfully used by a high

percentage of men on TRT, is not worth taking into consideration. It

is the best immediate term solution for someone who needs to get

their e2 down and wants to feel good.

Armyguy

> > >

> > > See this study, it suggests the effects can be significant

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15001605

> >

> > The strange thing about Arimidex is that its clinical results

> (i.e.,

> > how you feel, quality of life, etc.) have never lived up to the

> > numbers it produces. This has always been a mystery to me as

well

> as

> > every knowledgable source I've read or talked with.

> >

> > There have been numerous reports of men with very strong

erections

> > (morning and otherwise) from taking DIM. I haven't heard any

such

> > claims from men taking Arimidex. Also, the body building

community

> > doesn't see much value in Arimidex. The numbers say that it

should

> > have much more benefit than it does in practice. But it

doesn't.

> > Don't go by the numbers alone.

> >

> > Think about it. If Arimidex was such an easy solution, why

> wouldn't

> > it be more widely used for IHH? BTW, Shippen refused to give it

to

> > me for years. He obviously doesn't think much of it.

> >

> > Lastly, regarding the study you cited, it took 1 mg/day to

increase

> T

> > level from 350 to 575. How many men do you know take 1 mg/day

of

> > Arimidex? Have you ever taken that much? Do you think that

that

> > amount of increase in T is worth taking 1 mg/day of Arimidex?

[Guest guest]

Armyguy,

I'll weight in here too!

I tried ChryDim Gel, Di-Indolin....nothing, nada!!!

In term of Arimidex killing erections and piss hardons (PHs)....Wrong...at

least for me. For past three-four years I've kept track, graded my PHs and

nocturnal erections (NEs). I record on my appt calendar each morning. I

started Arimidex Aug 2nd August 2nd '01 and after reading these statements

about no PHs while on Arimidex....I went back and looked at my records. I

grade PHs from 0 - 6+++ and most of PHs were scored ~3+- 4+, some 6+++'s and

some 0's.

Having erectile dysfunction (ED), I work to maintain my NEs and PHs because

of physiologic importance to my dick; I usually pump my dick daily for ~an

hour; until my cardiac episode, Jan 21st '04 I used to take ~10 - 15 gms

L-Arginine/dy, usually 5 gms at bedtime. Couple years ago I unintentionally

wore my leather wrapped cockring (CR) to bed....had throbbing NEs and PHs.

Self diagnosis of mild moderate venous leakage, I surmised that the CR

clamped down on my dick's dorsal vein, impeding blood flow out of my dick.

I've been wearing CR to bed ever since that observation; a few times that I

failed to wear CR to bed my NEs and CRs were weaker than with CR.

Sexual erections: Being 66 and HIV+, I don't have a lot of real time sexual

partners. No to worry, shortly after getting my first computer, April,'99,

I began having cybersex. For me homoerotic videos, images, stores, become

predictive after first experiencing whereas with cybersex, my partner and I

can create our fantasy as we go along. For years, longer than I've

maintained NE and PH records, I've kept orgasmic records. I probably toss

off ~five dys/wk...noted are: " very hard " , " 6++++ hard " etc.

My b/f saw my urologist, Larry Lipshultz, M.D., Prof. Urology, Baylor

College of Med., Houston...b/f was put on hcg and tamoxifen to control

conversions. Tamoxifen is an alternative to Arimidex and the good news is

there's a generic form:

http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00555044609 & trx=1

Z5006

Whereas Arimidex is still patent protected.

Yes, we are all different and all we really have is our own experience(s).

We can be guided to some degree by experiences of others....but to truly

experience anything, we have to have " direct experience " .

OR eon

Re: Difference in Estradiol vs Estrone readings...

Let's be clear here.

For david arimidex is not a good solution. For y it was not

either. For Dim is a good solution. For y, pellets are

great. I can't comment much on the pellets, and most people that

have taken them seem to like them, and that is great, definitely a

viable solution, but I can comment on the DIM.

That is great that DIM works well for . Unfortunately, DIM does

not work nearly so well for most other men that are on TRT and need

to keep their estradiol down. I have read this from many many men,

that DIM does not do the trick in keeping their estradiol down.

Note, that is on low dose HCG shots, which very likely have

less of a aromatisation effect than T Cyp shots and other for of

testosterone replacement therapy, even including higher dose HCG

shots.

Anyway, please don't make blanket statements about Arimidex because

they are unfounded and untrue. It is good to speak of personal

experience, but it is wrong to assume that if something isn't the

ideal solution for you then it is not for someone else.

, you say that Arimidex is not popular in the bodybuilding

community, however, you are completely incorrect. For bodybuilders

using testosterone in their steroid stack, Arimidex is the drug of

choice to keep estradiol down.

Arimidex is powerful stuff. For those suffering from gynomastia and

plain feeling like crap from high estradiol, Arimidex is a surefire

way for most men to bring their e2 into the right level and feel the

benefits.

However, Arimidex is a powerful drug to be respected. The problem

that you say, where you get your e2 down, but don't feel great, is

99% most likely because you end up taking too much arimidex. The

stuff is so powerful it will bring e2 into too low of a level and

make a guy feel the same as he did when it is high. That is if you

take too much.

So you have to work with the drug and only take it as minimally as

possible, and it is a great tool, and I would say, and probably the

best tool, to manage estradiol that is currently available to most

of us. Other drugs like Aromasin might be great too.

AGAIN NOTE: The trick with arimidex is not to take too much! For

some men, that means as little as 1/2 pill every 5 days.

As for DIM, it may be helpful, but the vast majority of people who

post on these boards (and ASI) and who have used DIM say that it was

not enough to keep their estradiol in check. All I am saying, is

that one solution doesn't work for everyone and it is not correct to

say that a drug like arimidex, which is successfully used by a high

percentage of men on TRT, is not worth taking into consideration. It

is the best immediate term solution for someone who needs to get

their e2 down and wants to feel good.

Armyguy

> > >

> > > See this study, it suggests the effects can be significant

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15001605

> >

> > The strange thing about Arimidex is that its clinical results

> (i.e.,

> > how you feel, quality of life, etc.) have never lived up to the

> > numbers it produces. This has always been a mystery to me as

well

> as

> > every knowledgable source I've read or talked with.

> >

> > There have been numerous reports of men with very strong

erections

> > (morning and otherwise) from taking DIM. I haven't heard any

such

> > claims from men taking Arimidex. Also, the body building

community

> > doesn't see much value in Arimidex. The numbers say that it

should

> > have much more benefit than it does in practice. But it

doesn't.

> > Don't go by the numbers alone.

> >

> > Think about it. If Arimidex was such an easy solution, why

> wouldn't

> > it be more widely used for IHH? BTW, Shippen refused to give it

to

> > me for years. He obviously doesn't think much of it.

> >

> > Lastly, regarding the study you cited, it took 1 mg/day to

increase

> T

> > level from 350 to 575. How many men do you know take 1 mg/day

of

> > Arimidex? Have you ever taken that much? Do you think that

that

> > amount of increase in T is worth taking 1 mg/day of Arimidex?

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:43:52 -0000, you wrote:

>

>The strange thing about Arimidex is that its clinical results (i.e.,

>how you feel, quality of life, etc.) have never lived up to the

>numbers it produces.

I don't see where you can say that. I will tell you its made a

difference for me. And others here have too.

[Guest guest]

> Arimidex the first month we did a half a pill .5 mg. 3x/wk. My

levels on the blood test came back higher but I was on Testim 10

grams / day and getting a 200 mg shot every other week. We then up

the Arimidex to a half a pill / day. On my next blood I was due for

a shot and told them I did not want the shot I felt like my T. levels

were to high. When the blood test came back my E2 came down form 71

to 24 and my Total and Free T. went way up so we stopped the shots.

I now take a half a pill once a week my last test came back E2 was

42. So now I am doing a half a pill every 5 days.

Sounds like a key ingredient, if not the key ingredient, in your

recovery was switching from a combo protocol of shots & gel (which

constituted a T overdose) to gel only. This switch brought your T

down from over the top of the normal range into the upper normal

range. Is that correct?

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:18:46 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hi no what was happing is I was having trouble getting my T. levels up

high enough I don't feel right below 850 and do my best at 1000 total T.

Isn't Free T/E2 a better measure?

[Guest guest]

Yes it is a much better measure. But I have been on TRT for over 20

yrs. At the time I was finding this level of total T. we were not

checking Free T. So this has become a gauge for how I feel and a

lot of others us it. Free T. might not be a good indicator it takes

a lot to move up Free just one point. Yet I have had lower numbers

of Total T. and higher Free T. and felt good. It is just gauge that

is easier to go by.

Phil

>

> >Hi no what was happing is I was having trouble getting my

T. levels up high enough I don't feel right below 850 and do my best

at 1000 total T.

>

>

> Isn't Free T/E2 a better measure?

[Guest guest]

> Hi no what was happing is I was having trouble getting my T.

levels up high enough I don't feel right below 850 and do my best at

1000 total T. The more my Dr. tried getting my levels up the higher

my E2 was going and the T shots were so to say going down the toilet

You only have so much space for T. to go in your body and if you E2

is taking that space then all the TRT in the world is not going to do

the job. After going on the Arimidex everyday .5 mg. when my next

blood test was due I was also due for a shot but I could tell that my

T levels were up good and felt that I did not need the shot. Bring

down my E2 has my levels up on less T med's.

> Before going on Arimidex my levels on Testim 10 grams and a 200 mg

shot every other week were lower then they are now using Arimedex .5

every five days and just taking Testim 10 grams / day.

Don't you think switching from shots to gel has something to do with

your improvement? I mean, do you think you could get the same

results from shots as you are now getting from gel?