Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Kind of lost me there. If DHEA converts to estrogen and 7-Keto is a version that does not convert, what is the advantage of taking both regular DHEA and the 7-Keto version? The link makes it sound like the 7keto version is primarily useful for weight loss... not bad in and of itself, but not of much use if one needs the hormonal effects of DHEA (like as would relate to Adrenal Fatigue, cortisol, etc.) What doses of each are you taking? I too would prefer not to have to go the Armidex route if at all possible (especially with the fact that it would require me to find a new Endo as the one I have doesn't believe in going the Armidex route). Speaking of controlling estrogen and conversion of T to estrogen, I finally located a copy of Dr. Shippen's book and noted that he believed in treating estrogen levels with soy isoflavones, zinc and the combination of weight reduction / alcohol reduction. I believe that the process recommended by Life Extension FOundation also recommends that approach as an initial effort to controlling excess E levels. Has anyone tried that approach and had positive results with it? Larry S. >Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:05:47 -0700 > From: " gdryden " <gdryden@...> >Subject: RE: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > >DHEA aromatizes to estrogen. 7-Keto is another form of DHEA which is >supposed not to aromatize. I take both. My DHEA is 584 and Estradiol is 16. >I don't take Arimidex or similar. More info at >http://www.humaneticscorp.com/7keto/ > wrote: > >There are 20 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. saw the endo again yesterday... > From: " mdw1000 " <mdw1000@...> > 2. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " Bruce Harvey " <bruceharvey@...> > 3. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " mdw1000 " <mdw1000@...> > 4. Re: Women and low testosterone > From: " mdw1000 " <mdw1000@...> > 5. Re: Doc in Chicago > From: " mdw1000 " <mdw1000@...> > 6. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " R D HANCHETTE " <jackhanchette@...> > 7. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: swrtw2001 > 8. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " Bob " <ballen3_2000@...> > 9. Re: what should be in the Rx note when air travelling > From: " Bob " <ballen3_2000@...> > 10. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " joeferriesallstars " <joeferriesallstars@...> > 11. RE: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " gdryden " <gdryden@...> > 12. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: " joeferriesallstars " <joeferriesallstars@...> > 13. Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > From: LRS <stat1951@...> > 14. Re: Women and low testosterone > From: " ernestnolan " <emiles@...> > 15. Polycythemia > From: " relon2 " <don@...> > 16. Re: Polycythemia > From: brad999us > 17. Re: Polycythemia > From: " ernestnolan " <emiles@...> > 18. Re: T Boosting Supplements??? > From: " " <pk_clark@...> > 19. RE: Re: Women and low testosterone > From: " Nick O'Hara " <nick@...> > 20. Re: Women and low testosterone > From: " ernestnolan " <emiles@...> > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:49:21 -0000 > From: " mdw1000 " <mdw1000@...> >Subject: saw the endo again yesterday... > >She is leaving town at least for a year or so (she may or may not be >coming back), but there is another endo there that she says is good at >dealing with the unusual cases, ie the stuff beyond diabetes and >thyroid. My CFS doc was also willing to supervise my treatment if he >got a treatment plan from her. She also wants to maintain email >contact with me, so that is good. > >She also said it could take months or years to feel the full benefit >of the shots. She compared it to going through puberty again - those >changes take place over years primarily due to exposure to >testosterone (in boys). > >I'm doing two blood tests this week. One the day before the shot, and >one two days after the shot. Right now just free and total >testosterone. She wrote me an order to get the hemocrit (I think this >is the right word) stuff checked for 2 to 3 months down the road. Not >checking estradiol at this point, but that's ok - if I remember right >doctor 's approach was to worry about that after testosterone >levels and dosage are stabilized. At that point I will ask for >another estradiol test. > >She said she would want to wait until sometime between 6 months and a >year to introduce the HCG. > >Mark > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:57:14 -0000 > From: " Bruce Harvey " <bruceharvey@...> >Subject: Re: Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 and gave me Clomid > >IMO, effects of Clomid-induced T could differ from effects of direct T >supplementation. Whether or not stimulated by Clomid, I can't see how T >produced by the body could be somehow be chemically different. > >BTW, I'm told by my doctor that Clomid also acts as an estrogen blocker. > >Bruce > > > >> > > I have been on 15 mg of clomid taken on Mondays, Wednesdays, >> and >> > Fridays since April of this year. I have seen my total T go from >> > the low 300 range to 988 on my last blood 2 weeks ago. So yes, >> in >> > theory, what you are taking might be enough if you are truly >> > secondary hypogonadic. >> > > Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 >> > and gave me Clomid >> > > >> > > >> > > My Endo says my T was 378 and says it is up but not enough. >> This >> > is >> > > as high as it has been in two years. Not sure why it is this >> > high. >> > > It is usually around 160's He started me on 25 mg of Clomid >> > every >> > > other day. Does anyone know if this will be enough to get >> the >> > boys >> > > pumping? Thanks for all the help and the info regarding my >> > apnea >> > > etc.... >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 I tried 90 mg a day of zinc for a couple weeks but I think it made me sick so I stopped. Important to add copper to the mix. I'm currently trying a chrysin/piperine supplement, but I'm hoping to start using arimidex in the next month or so. My doc seems to be against it as well. Dave K. > >> > > I have been on 15 mg of clomid taken on Mondays, Wednesdays, > >> and > >> > Fridays since April of this year. I have seen my total T go from > >> > the low 300 range to 988 on my last blood 2 weeks ago. So yes, > >> in > >> > theory, what you are taking might be enough if you are truly > >> > secondary hypogonadic. > >> > > Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 > >> > and gave me Clomid > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > My Endo says my T was 378 and says it is up but not enough. > >> This > >> > is > >> > > as high as it has been in two years. Not sure why it is this > >> > high. > >> > > It is usually around 160's He started me on 25 mg of Clomid > >> > every > >> > > other day. Does anyone know if this will be enough to get > >> the > >> > boys > >> > > pumping? Thanks for all the help and the info regarding my > >> > apnea > >> > > etc.... > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I tryed them and they did not work so the only thing that did is Arimidex. Now to keep my E2 down all I need is a .5 mg. every 10 days. I also do 7-Keto and as for my blood tests it is working good. Phil > >> > > I have been on 15 mg of clomid taken on Mondays, Wednesdays, > >> and > >> > Fridays since April of this year. I have seen my total T go from > >> > the low 300 range to 988 on my last blood 2 weeks ago. So yes, > >> in > >> > theory, what you are taking might be enough if you are truly > >> > secondary hypogonadic. > >> > > Just came back from Endo. Test is 378 > >> > and gave me Clomid > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > My Endo says my T was 378 and says it is up but not enough. > >> This > >> > is > >> > > as high as it has been in two years. Not sure why it is this > >> > high. > >> > > It is usually around 160's He started me on 25 mg of Clomid > >> > every > >> > > other day. Does anyone know if this will be enough to get > >> the > >> > boys > >> > > pumping? Thanks for all the help and the info regarding my > >> > apnea > >> > > etc.... > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Would changing the " convert/don't covert to html " option make a difference? (In " Edit Membership " ) > Why am I getting a 92 k file for 4 lines of reply? > > Not everyone has broadband and it would be nice if broadband users would > remember some still have have very slow dial-ups. A bit of editing would > help a lot. > > > thanks > > > vaughn > > > > > > Re: 7-Keto DHEA > > > > > > I tryed them and they did not work so the only thing that did is > > Arimidex. Now to keep my E2 down all I need is a .5 mg. every 10 > > days. I also do 7-Keto and as for my blood tests it is working good. > > Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 I use covert to html and this may be his problem. But using this is not an effect on his E-Mail from us it is how we read our E-Mail. Phil Bruce Harvey <bruceharvey@...> wrote: Would changing the " convert/don't covert to html " option make a difference? (In " Edit Membership " ) > Why am I getting a 92 k file for 4 lines of reply? > > Not everyone has broadband and it would be nice if broadband users would > remember some still have have very slow dial-ups. A bit of editing would > help a lot. > > > thanks > > > vaughn > > > > > > Re: 7-Keto DHEA > > > > > > I tryed them and they did not work so the only thing that did is > > Arimidex. Now to keep my E2 down all I need is a .5 mg. every 10 > > days. I also do 7-Keto and as for my blood tests it is working good. > > Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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