Re: Help me Understand

March 30, 2005

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:38:36 -0000, you wrote:

>

> hello gentelmen please help me understand how one needs to be on

>certanin number of testosterone not in the reference range they give

>out but by the age group never understood that like phil you suggested

>that I should be at 600ng/dl how do you come to that conclusion? my

>endo said as long as you are in the range it is okay is that right? I

>do' t know what to belive please shed some light to this thanks in

>advance. Jack

Reference ranges tend to be the range that is seen in tests for

medical purposes. Tests are not ordinarily run on healthy people so

they are an unrepresentative sample.

Also and more importantly reference ranges are done by I believe

establishing the range 95% of samples are found in. So you can be in

the bottom 5 to 6% of the range and still be called " normal " . Never

mind that these levels don't look at your age (they include a lot 70

to 80+ year old men in the samples) or consider that levels that low

can be crippling mentally and even physically.

Look at the chart and see what's truly normal for your age. Look at

the median. How far off are you from that?

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

March 30, 2005

Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals. If anyone falls

within

the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY encourage buying

Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here are VERY

knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and you're probably

going

nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and you''ll have a

fighting

chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find another doctor. DON'T

GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that listened to me.

I

did some searches on Google and the links in this group and found every doctor

within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter describing my situation.

Only

TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the subject. If it's

helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it fits your

situation. GOOD

LUCK!

--------------

XXXX, MD

XXX Hospital

123 Anystreet

Anytown

Dear Dr XXXXX

I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido for approximately

8 9

years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test results for

Total

Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in the low normal

range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY treatment. One of my

initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin level, which

suggested

a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny micro-adenoma.

Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper normal range and I

have

not received any treatment for this.

Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins University web site

and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to have a better

understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering from

Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG. I have also

learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and the benefits of

keeping it under control.

I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field and who has

successfully treated men with these conditions and who is willing to treat

symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good starting point for

tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG, IGF-1,

Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to come

and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my home number, so

please leave a message and I'll return your call.

Thanks for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Your name

March 30, 2005

Regarding that " high Prolactin level " you mentioned in your example letter -- I

highly recommend Mucuna Pruriens Extract for getting an elevated Prolactin level

down. It works VERY WELL for me and when I use the Extract it completely does

away with any refractory period between ejaculations -- in other words -- you

will be able to cum and cum again. Doctors can prescribe Dostinex which does

exactly the same thing but, its like pulling teeth to get them to prescribe

Dostinex. You see -- they KNOW that Dostinex works really well on lowering your

Prolactin level and they KNOW what it does to a man's refractory period and for

some reason they want to be in " control " and not allow you to enjoy that.

Anyway -- the Mucuna Pruriens works for me -- you might try it.

Best Regards,

Gene

wondering2one <hopefully1000@...> wrote:

Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals. If anyone falls

within

the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY encourage buying

Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here are VERY

knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and you're probably

going

nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and you''ll have a

fighting

chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find another doctor. DON'T

GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that listened to me.

I

did some searches on Google and the links in this group and found every doctor

within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter describing my situation.

Only

TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the subject. If it's

helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it fits your

situation. GOOD

LUCK!

--------------

XXXX, MD

XXX Hospital

123 Anystreet

Anytown

Dear Dr XXXXX

I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido for approximately

8 9

years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test results for

Total

Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in the low normal

range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY treatment. One of my

initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin level, which

suggested

a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny micro-adenoma.

Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper normal range and I

have

not received any treatment for this.

Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins University web site

and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to have a better

understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering from

Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG. I have also

learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and the benefits of

keeping it under control.

I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field and who has

successfully treated men with these conditions and who is willing to treat

symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good starting point for

tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG, IGF-1,

Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to come

and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my home number, so

please leave a message and I'll return your call.

Thanks for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Your name

March 30, 2005

After you and I talked about Prolactin I went back and looked at my

Nov. 2004 blood test to see what my Prolactin level was. Mine was

11.0 and the range was 4.0 to 17.0 so I'm right in the middle. Still

haven't got that blood test back from early this month so I don't

know if it went up since November or not.

>

> Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals. If

anyone falls within

> the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY

encourage buying

> Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here

are VERY

> knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

you're probably going

> nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and you''ll

have a fighting

> chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find another

doctor. DON'T

> GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that

listened to me. I

> did some searches on Google and the links in this group and found

every doctor

> within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter describing

my situation. Only

> TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

subject. If it's

> helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

fits your situation. GOOD

> LUCK!

>

> --------------

> XXXX, MD

>

> XXX Hospital

> 123 Anystreet

> Anytown

>

> Dear Dr XXXXX

> I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido for

approximately 8 9

> years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test

results for Total

> Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in the

low normal

> range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

treatment. One of my

> initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin

level, which suggested

> a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny

micro-adenoma.

> Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper normal

range and I have

> not received any treatment for this.

>

> Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

University web site

> and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to

have a better

> understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

from

> Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG. I

have also

> learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and

the benefits of

> keeping it under control.

>

> I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field

and who has

> successfully treated men with these conditions and who is willing

to treat

> symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

starting point for

> tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG, IGF-

1,

> Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

>

> If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

opportunity to come

> and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my

home number, so

> please leave a message and I'll return your call.

>

> Thanks for your consideration.

>

> Sincerely,

> Your name

>

March 30, 2005

Hi Brad:

Hope you haven't given up on your date with your girlfriend tomorrow night.

Just take some Cialis today and somemore in the morning along with The Pump and

I'll bet you'll have a hell of a good time. Especially with that new lingerie

she's going to model for you -- tear her up dude!

Regarding Prolactin levels -- I keep mine as close to 2 as possible. At one

point, it was up to 18. I felt bloated every time I ate " anything " plus my

refractory period after one ejaculation was like 2 hours, totally UNacceptable

for me. After lowering my Prolactin level down to a level of 2, I was back to

my normal self.

Take care and keep in touch.

Best Regards to You,

Gene

bradtace1 <ace1965@...> wrote:

After you and I talked about Prolactin I went back and looked at my

Nov. 2004 blood test to see what my Prolactin level was. Mine was

11.0 and the range was 4.0 to 17.0 so I'm right in the middle. Still

haven't got that blood test back from early this month so I don't

know if it went up since November or not.

>

> Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals. If

anyone falls within

> the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY

encourage buying

> Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here

are VERY

> knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

you're probably going

> nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and you''ll

have a fighting

> chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find another

doctor. DON'T

> GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that

listened to me. I

> did some searches on Google and the links in this group and found

every doctor

> within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter describing

my situation. Only

> TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

subject. If it's

> helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

fits your situation. GOOD

> LUCK!

>

> --------------

> XXXX, MD

>

> XXX Hospital

> 123 Anystreet

> Anytown

>

> Dear Dr XXXXX

> I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido for

approximately 8 9

> years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test

results for Total

> Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in the

low normal

> range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

treatment. One of my

> initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin

level, which suggested

> a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny

micro-adenoma.

> Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper normal

range and I have

> not received any treatment for this.

>

> Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

University web site

> and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to

have a better

> understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

from

> Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG. I

have also

> learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and

the benefits of

> keeping it under control.

>

> I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field

and who has

> successfully treated men with these conditions and who is willing

to treat

> symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

starting point for

> tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG, IGF-

1,

> Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

>

> If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

opportunity to come

> and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my

home number, so

> please leave a message and I'll return your call.

>

> Thanks for your consideration.

>

> Sincerely,

> Your name

>

March 30, 2005

I haven't given up on it just yet. We will still enjoy a nice dinner

out on the town but I just know what is going to happen later on. I

don't think I've been on the Pump Tech long enough to feel any

effect. I'll hope for the best but I'm not looking forward to what's

going to happen, new lingerie or not.

Maybe I might be too high at 11.0 on Prolactin. It seems that I need

to be at the extremes of all the ranges to feel any better. You

would think with a T level at 1157, I would be wanting sex

constantly like you.

> >

> > Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals.

If

> anyone falls within

> > the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY

> encourage buying

> > Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here

> are VERY

> > knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

> you're probably going

> > nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and

you''ll

> have a fighting

> > chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find

another

> doctor. DON'T

> > GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that

> listened to me. I

> > did some searches on Google and the links in this group and

found

> every doctor

> > within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter

describing

> my situation. Only

> > TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

> subject. If it's

> > helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

> fits your situation. GOOD

> > LUCK!

> >

> > --------------

> > XXXX, MD

> >

> > XXX Hospital

> > 123 Anystreet

> > Anytown

> >

> > Dear Dr XXXXX

> > I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido

for

> approximately 8 9

> > years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test

> results for Total

> > Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in

the

> low normal

> > range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

> treatment. One of my

> > initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin

> level, which suggested

> > a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny

> micro-adenoma.

> > Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper

normal

> range and I have

> > not received any treatment for this.

> >

> > Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

> University web site

> > and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to

> have a better

> > understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

> from

> > Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG.

I

> have also

> > learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and

> the benefits of

> > keeping it under control.

> >

> > I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field

> and who has

> > successfully treated men with these conditions and who is

willing

> to treat

> > symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

> starting point for

> > tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG,

IGF-

> 1,

> > Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

> >

> > If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

> opportunity to come

> > and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my

> home number, so

> > please leave a message and I'll return your call.

> >

> > Thanks for your consideration.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Your name

> >

March 30, 2005

Brad:

If my Prolactin were at 11, I would not be happy but, that's just me. And you

must remember, Prolactin is seriously aggrivated by dairy products. So, DO NOT

drink any milk, or eat any cheese of any kind, no cottage cheese -- none of that

or your Prolactin level will go up so high you'll have a horrible time

ejaculating. Eat A LOT of broccoli spinach, dark leaf salad greens (not the

light green - its worthless) and either fish or chicken and you'll be allright

-- vary from that and you're asking for trouble. Only eat whole wheat or

multi-grain type bread and if you have to use butter - then use the real thing

-- butter -- NO margarine.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards to You,

Gene

bradtace1 <ace1965@...> wrote:

I haven't given up on it just yet. We will still enjoy a nice dinner

out on the town but I just know what is going to happen later on. I

don't think I've been on the Pump Tech long enough to feel any

effect. I'll hope for the best but I'm not looking forward to what's

going to happen, new lingerie or not.

Maybe I might be too high at 11.0 on Prolactin. It seems that I need

to be at the extremes of all the ranges to feel any better. You

would think with a T level at 1157, I would be wanting sex

constantly like you.

> >

> > Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals.

If

> anyone falls within

> > the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would STRONGLY

> encourage buying

> > Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people here

> are VERY

> > knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

> you're probably going

> > nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and

you''ll

> have a fighting

> > chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find

another

> doctor. DON'T

> > GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo that

> listened to me. I

> > did some searches on Google and the links in this group and

found

> every doctor

> > within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter

describing

> my situation. Only

> > TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

> subject. If it's

> > helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

> fits your situation. GOOD

> > LUCK!

> >

> > --------------

> > XXXX, MD

> >

> > XXX Hospital

> > 123 Anystreet

> > Anytown

> >

> > Dear Dr XXXXX

> > I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido

for

> approximately 8 9

> > years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood test

> results for Total

> > Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in

the

> low normal

> > range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

> treatment. One of my

> > initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated Prolactin

> level, which suggested

> > a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a tiny

> micro-adenoma.

> > Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper

normal

> range and I have

> > not received any treatment for this.

> >

> > Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

> University web site

> > and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come to

> have a better

> > understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

> from

> > Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with HcG.

I

> have also

> > learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men and

> the benefits of

> > keeping it under control.

> >

> > I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this field

> and who has

> > successfully treated men with these conditions and who is

willing

> to treat

> > symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

> starting point for

> > tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG,

IGF-

> 1,

> > Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

> >

> > If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

> opportunity to come

> > and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is my

> home number, so

> > please leave a message and I'll return your call.

> >

> > Thanks for your consideration.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Your name

> >

March 30, 2005

Well that is something that I probably won't be able to do. I drink

lot of milk and eat a lot of cheese and I can't stand those dark

leaf salads. I can't stand broccoli or spinach either so I will just

have to depend on the Mucuna Pruriens when it gets here to regulate

Prolactin. I do eat a lot of chicken though which is good.

> > >

> > > Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals.

> If

> > anyone falls within

> > > the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would

STRONGLY

> > encourage buying

> > > Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people

here

> > are VERY

> > > knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

> > you're probably going

> > > nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and

> you''ll

> > have a fighting

> > > chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find

> another

> > doctor. DON'T

> > > GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo

that

> > listened to me. I

> > > did some searches on Google and the links in this group and

> found

> > every doctor

> > > within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter

> describing

> > my situation. Only

> > > TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

> > subject. If it's

> > > helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

> > fits your situation. GOOD

> > > LUCK!

> > >

> > > --------------

> > > XXXX, MD

> > >

> > > XXX Hospital

> > > 123 Anystreet

> > > Anytown

> > >

> > > Dear Dr XXXXX

> > > I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido

> for

> > approximately 8 9

> > > years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood

test

> > results for Total

> > > Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in

> the

> > low normal

> > > range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

> > treatment. One of my

> > > initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated

Prolactin

> > level, which suggested

> > > a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a

tiny

> > micro-adenoma.

> > > Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper

> normal

> > range and I have

> > > not received any treatment for this.

> > >

> > > Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

> > University web site

> > > and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come

to

> > have a better

> > > understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

> > from

> > > Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with

HcG.

> I

> > have also

> > > learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men

and

> > the benefits of

> > > keeping it under control.

> > >

> > > I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this

field

> > and who has

> > > successfully treated men with these conditions and who is

> willing

> > to treat

> > > symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

> > starting point for

> > > tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG,

> IGF-

> > 1,

> > > Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

> > >

> > > If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

> > opportunity to come

> > > and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is

my

> > home number, so

> > > please leave a message and I'll return your call.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your consideration.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Your name

> > >

March 30, 2005

Dear Brad:

NO WONDER you're having trouble! This explains everything. Dairy products are

the WORST things in the world for a man with hypogonadism of any kind. If you

ever expect to perform sexually you're going to have to completely change your

diet. Make a thorough study of Prolactin and you'll see what I mean. This is

SERIOUS.

Best Regards,

Gene

bradtace1 <ace1965@...> wrote:

Well that is something that I probably won't be able to do. I drink

lot of milk and eat a lot of cheese and I can't stand those dark

leaf salads. I can't stand broccoli or spinach either so I will just

have to depend on the Mucuna Pruriens when it gets here to regulate

Prolactin. I do eat a lot of chicken though which is good.

> > >

> > > Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals.

> If

> > anyone falls within

> > > the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would

STRONGLY

> > encourage buying

> > > Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people

here

> > are VERY

> > > knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

> > you're probably going

> > > nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and

> you''ll

> > have a fighting

> > > chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find

> another

> > doctor. DON'T

> > > GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo

that

> > listened to me. I

> > > did some searches on Google and the links in this group and

> found

> > every doctor

> > > within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter

> describing

> > my situation. Only

> > > TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

> > subject. If it's

> > > helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

> > fits your situation. GOOD

> > > LUCK!

> > >

> > > --------------

> > > XXXX, MD

> > >

> > > XXX Hospital

> > > 123 Anystreet

> > > Anytown

> > >

> > > Dear Dr XXXXX

> > > I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido

> for

> > approximately 8 9

> > > years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood

test

> > results for Total

> > > Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in

> the

> > low normal

> > > range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

> > treatment. One of my

> > > initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated

Prolactin

> > level, which suggested

> > > a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a

tiny

> > micro-adenoma.

> > > Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper

> normal

> > range and I have

> > > not received any treatment for this.

> > >

> > > Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

> > University web site

> > > and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come

to

> > have a better

> > > understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

> > from

> > > Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with

HcG.

> I

> > have also

> > > learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men

and

> > the benefits of

> > > keeping it under control.

> > >

> > > I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this

field

> > and who has

> > > successfully treated men with these conditions and who is

> willing

> > to treat

> > > symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

> > starting point for

> > > tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG,

> IGF-

> > 1,

> > > Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

> > >

> > > If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

> > opportunity to come

> > > and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is

my

> > home number, so

> > > please leave a message and I'll return your call.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your consideration.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Your name

> > >

March 30, 2005

I've been drinking milk and eating cheese since I was a little boy and

never had any problems. You said it affected your ability to ejaculate

not the ability to maintain an erection. I've never had any problems

with ejaculating. If my Prolactin level was off the charts I would

agree with you but it's right in the middle. Once on an airplane I had

to drink 2% milk because that's all they had. That stuff tasted like

crap. Tasted like liquid glue or something. I cannot change my diet.

My metabolic rate is so extremely high that I'm constantly hungry. I

try eating salads some (without those yucky dark leaves) but I'm still

hungry an hour after I eat them.

> > > >

> > > > Agreed. Reference ranges are for populations, not individuals.

> > If

> > > anyone falls within

> > > > the ranges, but doesn't feel like they should, I would

> STRONGLY

> > > encourage buying

> > > > Dr. Shippen's book - The Testosterone Syndrome. Many people

> here

> > > are VERY

> > > > knowledgeable, but try to get your doctor to listen to us and

> > > you're probably going

> > > > nowhere. But show him a book writen by another doctor and

> > you''ll

> > > have a fighting

> > > > chance. If you still don't get anywhere with him/her, find

> > another

> > > doctor. DON'T

> > > > GIVE UP. I went through FIVE doctors before I found an endo

> that

> > > listened to me. I

> > > > did some searches on Google and the links in this group and

> > found

> > > every doctor

> > > > within 30 miles of my house and sent them all a letter

> > describing

> > > my situation. Only

> > > > TWO responded.That's a sign that not too many understand the

> > > subject. If it's

> > > > helpful, my letter follows. Use any portion or all of it if it

> > > fits your situation. GOOD

> > > > LUCK!

> > > >

> > > > --------------

> > > > XXXX, MD

> > > >

> > > > XXX Hospital

> > > > 123 Anystreet

> > > > Anytown

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr XXXXX

> > > > I am a 34 yr. old male who has been suffering from low libido

> > for

> > > approximately 8 9

> > > > years and having trouble finding a solution. Previous blood

> test

> > > results for Total

> > > > Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH and FSH have come back in

> > the

> > > low normal

> > > > range. Because of these results, my doctor has refused ANY

> > > treatment. One of my

> > > > initial blood tests also revealed a slightly elevated

> Prolactin

> > > level, which suggested

> > > > a possible Pituitary disorder. A subsequent MRI revealed a

> tiny

> > > micro-adenoma.

> > > > Later tests demonstrated a Prolactin level within the upper

> > normal

> > > range and I have

> > > > not received any treatment for this.

> > > >

> > > > Through extensive online research on WebMD, s Hopkins

> > > University web site

> > > > and reading the AACE guidelines on Hypogonadism, I have come

> to

> > > have a better

> > > > understanding of my condition and wonder if I may be suffering

> > > from

> > > > Secondary Hypogonadism and may benefit from treatment with

> HcG.

> > I

> > > have also

> > > > learned of the effects of high Estradiol (E2) levels in men

> and

> > > the benefits of

> > > > keeping it under control.

> > > >

> > > > I am trying to find a physician who has experience in this

> field

> > > and who has

> > > > successfully treated men with these conditions and who is

> > willing

> > > to treat

> > > > symptoms and not just test results. However, it seems a good

> > > starting point for

> > > > tests would be: Total T, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, FSH, LH, HCG,

> > IGF-

> > > 1,

> > > > Prolactin, SHBG, DHEA-S and Cortisol.

> > > >

> > > > If you think you can help me, I would greatly appreciate the

> > > opportunity to come

> > > > and meet with you. I can be reached at XXX.XXX.XXXX. This is

> my

> > > home number, so

> > > > please leave a message and I'll return your call.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your consideration.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > > Your name

> > > >

March 30, 2005

>> >

> > NO WONDER you're having trouble! This explains everything. Dairy

>products are the WORST things in the world for a man with hypogonadism

>of any kind.

Is this anecdotal or is there evidence that it raises your prolactin?

Winter

March 30, 2005

Brad:

Too much Prolactin will completely kill off your sex drive. It is a prohormone

that generates milk production in the female breast and -- if a man has too much

of it in his system he can start lactation production as well -- not a pretty

sight. Prolactin is a human-generated dairy product, so to speak. You will

notice that men are not encouraged to take calcium supplements however, they ARE

told to take Vitamin D. Vitamin D works with testosterone (in men) to generate

strong bones -- whereas calcium in the male body makes -- you guessed it --

PROLACTIN.

I remember that you told me you were able to ejaculate even from a flaccid

state, so -- indeed you will probably be able to continue doing that. But, I'm

worried that total your lack of sex drive will cause a domino effect over onto

your ability to get an erection, even with the use of Cialis and Pump Tech.

Certainly, each man is different. You may be able to injest large amounts of

dairy products and maintain your Prolactin level in mid-range and find that this

causes you no problems.

In my body, an elevated Prolactin level of 45 (which was about the level where I

started if I recall correctly on my September, 2004 bloodwork report) SO

destroyed my sex drive that I could not get -- nor did I want to get -- an

erection. For me that was the stangest phenomenon ever!

I sincerely hope you will have a wonderful time with your date tomorrow night

and that you will only have positive things to report back to us.

Take care!