Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Hello Rude, A diminishing effect or the feeling of dimishing effect occurs with almost all type of drugs over time this is called " tachyphylaxis " just try going off of your testosterone for a while and then you will really notice the difference. The other problem(s) could be that you have very elevated estrogen levels or elevated level of sex hormone binding globulin (SBHG) which would lower the amount of free testosterone. If you have very low levels of free testosterone and normal to high total testosterone for all practical purposes you are still hypogonadal. As far as good anti-aromatase inhibitors let me save you some money. Chrysin doesn't work at all. You will get about a 10% reduction in estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases estrogen elimination by the liver. Red wine extract works as a anti-aromatase inihibitor (Ann N Y Acad Sci 2002 Jun;963:239-46 Anti-aromatase chemicals in red wine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12095950 & dopt=Abstract) but the most effective product is pharmaceutical arimidex at this time. Warm Regards, Allyn A. Brizel, M.D. www.natural-hrt.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 hi allyn.... my doc won't prescribe arimidex because on a scale of 21-50 my estradiol was 35....my test. was 719 on a scale of 260-1000 and my free test was 27.1 on a scale of 9.5-43.0 this blood work was taken on the day before my next injection... i inject 300ml of depo every 7 days.... dont' know why i get that occasional itchy nipple sometimes....or why i don't feel horny as hell like some guys....but i do feel better than i have ever felt...still would like him to check hgh levels but he says i don't need it cuz all my blood work " looks great " ....therefore it doesn't seem like " central failure " just testicular.... does this ring true for you and the people you treat? rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 > You will get about a 10% reduction in > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > estrogen elimination by the liver. Hi Doc, I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have monthly blood tests to prove it. Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon how functional the P450 system in your liver is. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 Hello Rude, I suspect the following: Since you are using a relatively high dose of TRT 300mg per week with a level of " 719 " on day 7 this suggest to me that in the first 5 days of the injection your levels of Testosterone are supraphysiologic which is then causing you to have itchy nipples. This symptom of itchy or soreness is the first sign tipping off the potenial to develop gynocomastia so time down the road. Taking all this into consideration I would lower you dose of testosterone by 50mg a week and recheck testosterone levels on day 5 which is a more significant time. Only because of your risk of gyno with your current TRT dose would I consider putting you on arimidex more for prophylaxis of potential gyno since 35 isn't to elevated. Regards, Allyn A. Brizel, M.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2002 Report Share Posted August 23, 2002 hey doc allyn, first let me say thank you for being a part of this group....you knowledge and compassion for us men is extremely valuable.... as far as itchy nipples go....i have only had that affect 3 times since i began 300mg a week a year ago...and each time it has occurred it was towards the end of my cycle, like thursday and friday---i always inject on sunday...so i don't what to make of that. Also, my pcp says that estradiol levels don't fluctuate as much as my test. levels...so getting my bloodwork done on the day before my next inj. would a fine determinant as to what my estradiol level was....is there any truth to that last comment.... again, thank you for all your insight and empathy, rude > Hello Rude, > > I suspect the following: Since you are using a relatively high dose > of TRT 300mg per week with a level of " 719 " on day 7 this suggest to > me that in the first 5 days of the injection your levels of > Testosterone are supraphysiologic which is then causing you to have > itchy nipples. This symptom of itchy or soreness is the first sign > tipping off the potenial to develop gynocomastia so time down the > road. Taking all this into consideration I would lower you dose of > testosterone by 50mg a week and recheck testosterone levels on day 5 > which is a more significant time. Only because of your risk of gyno > with your current TRT dose would I consider putting you on arimidex > more for prophylaxis of potential gyno since 35 isn't to elevated. > > Regards, > > Allyn A. Brizel, M.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I have treated at least 100 guys with DIM--including Indolplex--and with ALL follow-up labs (including 24 hour urine panels for the significant estrogen metabolites) and I have never seen a result anywhere near that claimed by this individual. In fact, in most cases, DIM actually increases Total Estrogens. The correct strategy is to first employ an aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control Total Estrogens, then fine tune the ratios of the metabolites using DIM. Actually, at this time, it looks as though I-3- C (the parent compound) is vastly superior to DIM in its positive benefits. Most of the clams made by the inventor of Indolplex have been shown to be...shall we say...more proprietray than factual. I hope this helps. > > > You will get about a 10% reduction in > > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > > estrogen elimination by the liver. > > Hi Doc, > > I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " > with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of > Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have > monthly blood tests to prove it. > > Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon > how functional the P450 system in your liver is. > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I had tried Dim/Indolplex (even though my E2 was 18 i still tried)...after 5 days (not sure if that's long enough) of taking 1 pill i had my E2 and Total E checked...E2 was 17 and Total E was 143 (range <130). sorry..don't have Total E levels prior to Dim. just thought I'd throw that in there. jkcrisler <doctorjohn@...> wrote: I have treated at least 100 guys with DIM--including Indolplex--and with ALL follow-up labs (including 24 hour urine panels for the significant estrogen metabolites) and I have never seen a result anywhere near that claimed by this individual. In fact, in most cases, DIM actually increases Total Estrogens. The correct strategy is to first employ an aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control Total Estrogens, then fine tune the ratios of the metabolites using DIM. Actually, at this time, it looks as though I-3- C (the parent compound) is vastly superior to DIM in its positive benefits. Most of the clams made by the inventor of Indolplex have been shown to be...shall we say...more proprietray than factual. I hope this helps. > > > You will get about a 10% reduction in > > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > > estrogen elimination by the liver. > > Hi Doc, > > I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " > with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of > Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have > monthly blood tests to prove it. > > Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon > how functional the P450 system in your liver is. > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I found this to be true the hard way. I am not taking Indolplex/DIM anymore been off it for over 12 weeks. It was driveing up my E's and causing me to have symptoms of high E's first was itching and breaking out in a rash on the back of my legs. For me this is the first sine of my E's going up. Now all I take is Arimidex and my E2 and Total E's are fine. Phil jkcrisler <doctorjohn@...> wrote: I have treated at least 100 guys with DIM--including Indolplex--and with ALL follow-up labs (including 24 hour urine panels for the significant estrogen metabolites) and I have never seen a result anywhere near that claimed by this individual. In fact, in most cases, DIM actually increases Total Estrogens. The correct strategy is to first employ an aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control Total Estrogens, then fine tune the ratios of the metabolites using DIM. Actually, at this time, it looks as though I-3- C (the parent compound) is vastly superior to DIM in its positive benefits. Most of the clams made by the inventor of Indolplex have been shown to be...shall we say...more proprietray than factual. I hope this helps. > > > You will get about a 10% reduction in > > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > > estrogen elimination by the liver. > > Hi Doc, > > I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " > with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of > Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have > monthly blood tests to prove it. > > Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon > how functional the P450 system in your liver is. > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Jack you not on TRT so it is hard to tell you how to handle this but if I were you I would not take anyting to lower your E2 or Total E's not being on TRT you can go way to low and it will take a long time to come back up not being on TRT. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: I had tried Dim/Indolplex (even though my E2 was 18 i still tried)...after 5 days (not sure if that's long enough) of taking 1 pill i had my E2 and Total E checked...E2 was 17 and Total E was 143 (range <130). sorry..don't have Total E levels prior to Dim. just thought I'd throw that in there. jkcrisler wrote: I have treated at least 100 guys with DIM--including Indolplex--and with ALL follow-up labs (including 24 hour urine panels for the significant estrogen metabolites) and I have never seen a result anywhere near that claimed by this individual. In fact, in most cases, DIM actually increases Total Estrogens. The correct strategy is to first employ an aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control Total Estrogens, then fine tune the ratios of the metabolites using DIM. Actually, at this time, it looks as though I-3- C (the parent compound) is vastly superior to DIM in its positive benefits. Most of the clams made by the inventor of Indolplex have been shown to be...shall we say...more proprietray than factual. I hope this helps. > > > You will get about a 10% reduction in > > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > > estrogen elimination by the liver. > > Hi Doc, > > I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " > with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of > Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have > monthly blood tests to prove it. > > Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon > how functional the P450 system in your liver is. > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 i totally agree. im not messing around with anything anymore. im waiting to find a endo to prescribe me a stim test to determine if im primary or secondary hypo and go from there. wife is going with me to make sure i don't get dicked around. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Jack you not on TRT so it is hard to tell you how to handle this but if I were you I would not take anyting to lower your E2 or Total E's not being on TRT you can go way to low and it will take a long time to come back up not being on TRT. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: I had tried Dim/Indolplex (even though my E2 was 18 i still tried)...after 5 days (not sure if that's long enough) of taking 1 pill i had my E2 and Total E checked...E2 was 17 and Total E was 143 (range <130). sorry..don't have Total E levels prior to Dim. just thought I'd throw that in there. jkcrisler wrote: I have treated at least 100 guys with DIM--including Indolplex--and with ALL follow-up labs (including 24 hour urine panels for the significant estrogen metabolites) and I have never seen a result anywhere near that claimed by this individual. In fact, in most cases, DIM actually increases Total Estrogens. The correct strategy is to first employ an aromatase inhibitor (AI) to control Total Estrogens, then fine tune the ratios of the metabolites using DIM. Actually, at this time, it looks as though I-3- C (the parent compound) is vastly superior to DIM in its positive benefits. Most of the clams made by the inventor of Indolplex have been shown to be...shall we say...more proprietray than factual. I hope this helps. > > > You will get about a 10% reduction in > > estrogen using I-3-C or DIM which increases > > estrogen elimination by the liver. > > Hi Doc, > > I reduced my E2 by at least 50% (from consistently over 70 to " <32 " > with a normal range of <50) with 15% of the daily dosage of > Indolplex/DIM. That's 2 tablets spread out over a week! And I have > monthly blood tests to prove it. > > Indolplex/DIM definitely works. But I suspect that it depends upon > how functional the P450 system in your liver is. > > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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