Re: Androgel vs. injections

[Guest guest]

Bobbycfromep,

If you have not raised your T levels to ~600 - 800 with two 5 gms packets

AndroGel, I would suspect that your skin is not absorbing AndroGel.

My b/f had similar experience...he went up to three 5 gm packets and his T

level was still ~350. He went on injections and his T levels run ~800-900.

I'm on two 5 gm packets/dy....some of my T values

Mar 11th '02

Serum Testosterone 704 (241-827)

Apr 29th '02

Serum Testosterone 791

July 3 '02

Serum T 781

Sept 12th '02

Serum T 831

Dec 11th '02

Serum T 489

Feb 25th '03

Serum T 922 (241 - 837)

June 20th '03

Serum T 656

Aug 15th '03

Testosterone 809

Oct 27th '03

Testosterone 533 (241-827)

Jan 8th '04

Testosterone 678

Since cost is an issue...depo is less expensive than AndroGel. If you go on

depo...you may want to inquire if there's a shortage during the

year...couple years ago...for several years in a row, there was a shortage.

I was contemplating going back on injections and bout two 10 ml

vials...ended up giving them to b/f.

You mentioned being tired in the morning....could sleep apnea be a

consideration?

Good luck,

OR eon

GayMan

Androgel vs. injections

I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the place to

ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further tests

showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong " were

the culprits.

The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

software developer and I have been always able to put in long days

with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was zip

and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly in

May).

After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We boosted

the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-existent

but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

satisfied with that level.

The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-insured

and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With that

in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons cheaper.

He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks) but

after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days he

checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

Here's the questions.

Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience with

that?

Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per day

(the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in every

two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need to

make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for my

next visit.

[Guest guest]

Try going to Testim, I am not sure about the price, but you might be

able to get away with only using one tube (5G).

I know Testim is more effective that Androgel for me and others.

Nickso

> I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the place

to

> ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

> blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further

tests

> showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong " were

> the culprits.

>

> The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

> software developer and I have been always able to put in long days

> with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

> really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was zip

> and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly in

> May).

>

> After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

> day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We

boosted

> the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

> getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-

existent

> but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

> satisfied with that level.

>

> The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-

insured

> and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With

that

> in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons

cheaper.

> He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks) but

> after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days he

> checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

>

> Here's the questions.

>

> Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience

with

> that?

>

> Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per

day

> (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

>

> My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in

every

> two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need to

> make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for my

> next visit.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply. The sleep apnea was ruled out first with an

overnight test. Since I've been on TRT the fatigue has pretty much

gone away but the concentration problems have returned as my levels

lowered. If make me think that were on the right track, just need to

get the dosage right.

I seem to be having the opposite reaction from what you described

below. With the Androgel I did better at 10 grams but not great.

But certainly better than the shots but then they are using what

I " think " is too small of a dosage.

Is 1.5 cc of Depo every two weeks a small dose? Thanks again...

> Bobbycfromep,

>

> If you have not raised your T levels to ~600 - 800 with two 5 gms

packets

> AndroGel, I would suspect that your skin is not absorbing AndroGel.

> My b/f had similar experience...he went up to three 5 gm packets

and his T

> level was still ~350. He went on injections and his T levels run

~800-900.

>

> I'm on two 5 gm packets/dy....some of my T values

>

> Mar 11th '02

>

> Serum Testosterone 704 (241-827)

>

> Apr 29th '02

>

> Serum Testosterone 791

>

> July 3 '02

>

> Serum T 781

>

> Sept 12th '02

>

> Serum T 831

>

> Dec 11th '02

>

> Serum T 489

>

> Feb 25th '03

>

> Serum T 922 (241 - 837)

>

> June 20th '03

>

> Serum T 656

>

> Aug 15th '03

>

> Testosterone 809

>

> Oct 27th '03

>

> Testosterone 533 (241-827)

>

> Jan 8th '04

>

> Testosterone 678

>

> Since cost is an issue...depo is less expensive than AndroGel. If

you go on

> depo...you may want to inquire if there's a shortage during the

> year...couple years ago...for several years in a row, there was a

shortage.

> I was contemplating going back on injections and bout two 10 ml

> vials...ended up giving them to b/f.

>

> You mentioned being tired in the morning....could sleep apnea be a

> consideration?

>

> Good luck,

>

> OR eon

> GayMan

> Androgel vs. injections

>

> I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the place

to

> ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

> blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further

tests

> showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong " were

> the culprits.

>

> The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

> software developer and I have been always able to put in long days

> with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

> really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was zip

> and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly in

> May).

>

> After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

> day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We

boosted

> the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

> getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-

existent

> but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

> satisfied with that level.

>

> The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-

insured

> and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With

that

> in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons

cheaper.

> He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks) but

> after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days he

> checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

>

> Here's the questions.

>

> Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience

with

> that?

>

> Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per

day

> (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

>

> My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in

every

> two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need to

> make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for my

> next visit.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Is this relatively new? I just contacted my pharmacy and

they don't stock it. If I may also ask, how much is it for a 5 gram

tube?

> > I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the

place

> to

> > ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

> > blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further

> tests

> > showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong "

were

> > the culprits.

> >

> > The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

> > software developer and I have been always able to put in long

days

> > with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

> > really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was

zip

> > and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> > figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly

in

> > May).

> >

> > After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

> > day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We

> boosted

> > the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

> > getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-

> existent

> > but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

> > satisfied with that level.

> >

> > The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-

> insured

> > and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With

> that

> > in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons

> cheaper.

> > He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks)

but

> > after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days

he

> > checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

> >

> > Here's the questions.

> >

> > Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience

> with

> > that?

> >

> > Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per

> day

> > (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

> >

> > My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in

> every

> > two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need

to

> > make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for

my

> > next visit.

[Guest guest]

1.5 cc every two weeks is not enough.

You need at least 100mg WEEKLY. You can definitely do the injections

yourself.

You need to get your estradiol level checked while on the shots,

good chance your estradiol will get too high and you will need to

take arimidex to lower it. Otherwise, you lose all the positive

effects of trt.

Androgel is a rip off if your insurance does not cover it. Enter the

world of compounding pharmacies. Compounding pharmacist will make up

gel or cream with testosterone that will work comparably well,

sometimes better, than androgel. Cost is about 1/5 as much. Call

your local pharmacy, ask them if they do compounding there, if not,

ask them if they know a pharmacy in town that does. You will find

one that way. Save yourself a lot of money on the gel. Androgel is

not the end all and be all, just the most expensive by far.

Armyguy

> I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the place

to

> ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

> blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further

tests

> showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong " were

> the culprits.

>

> The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

> software developer and I have been always able to put in long days

> with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

> really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was

zip

> and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly in

> May).

>

> After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

> day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We

boosted

> the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

> getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-

existent

> but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

> satisfied with that level.

>

> The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-

insured

> and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With

that

> in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons

cheaper.

> He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks)

but

> after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days

he

> checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

>

> Here's the questions.

>

> Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience

with

> that?

>

> Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per

day

> (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

>

> My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in

every

> two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need

to

> make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for

my

> next visit.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Sorry, no experience with mixing Androgel & injections. Sounds innovative

enough to persue, if the doctor is willing.

Share similar symptoms. " Brain fog " is the most distressing, right up there with

extreme exhaustion. I sleep a lot, but it's unrefreshing, & I wake up ready to

go

back to sleep. Can have sex, using Viagra, but I'm usually too tired. Currently

disabled, had to leave my own business.

I was on Androgel (started at 1 packet, = 5g.; went to 2 packets, = 10 g.) but

switched to injections about a year ago. Reasoning at the time:

(1) cost was $100/month (thats co-pay not covered by insurance); injections

less than $10/mo.

(2) Reached total testosterone ofabout 350, but had trouble keeping TT above

230 even on 2 packets of Androgel. Thought injections would give better

delivery.

Still having problems. Investigating pellet implantation. Projected cost is $275

every 3 - 4 months. If it works, I'll stop worrying about costs if possible: It

costs

much more to suffer the symptoms.

Good luck,

Bruce

> I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the place to

> ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago had

> blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further tests

> showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong " were

> the culprits.

>

> The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-employed

> software developer and I have been always able to put in long days

> with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the symptoms

> really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was zip

> and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly in

> May).

>

> After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

> day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We boosted

> the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

> getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-existent

> but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

> satisfied with that level.

>

> The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-insured

> and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With that

> in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons cheaper.

> He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks) but

> after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days he

> checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

>

> Here's the questions.

>

> Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience with

> that?

>

> Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel per day

> (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

>

> My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in every

> two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will need to

> make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition for my

> next visit.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:35:18 -0000, you wrote:

>After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet a

>day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We boosted

>the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things were

>getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-existent

>but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am not

>satisfied with that level.

>

>The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-insured

>and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With that

>in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons cheaper.

>He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks) but

>after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten days he

>checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

What dosage were the shots? And three weeks is a bit long. I was

getting 200 mg every two weeks and liked that dosage.

Also have him check your estrogen levels. Testosterone converts to

estrogen. If your estrogen levels get high it robs you of the lift

(both kinds! ;-> )and effect of T.

Also read through the old messages here and learn about pellets. Rice

size pellets inserted under the skin provide steady levels for up to

six months. Cheaper than shots even if right pharmacy and doctor.

(with a three week shot cycle you're going to have a hell of a cycle.

High T after shots and slow three week crash. It can bring mood swings

and the rest.)

>Here's the questions.

>

>Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any experience with

>that?

[Guest guest]

You pharmacy can get it, mine did not have it at first. Not sure of

the price since I pay $20 /month with Ins.

The pharmacy should be able to give you the price.

Good luck

Nickso

> > > I'm new to this group but I've already seen that this is the

> place

> > to

> > > ask my questions. I'm 47 years old and about six months ago

had

> > > blood tests to check my T level which came back at 190. Further

> > tests

> > > showed my pituitary gland was working fine so " ping and pong "

> were

> > > the culprits.

> > >

> > > The biggest symptom has been mental acuity. I'm a self-

employed

> > > software developer and I have been always able to put in long

> days

> > > with good concentration and focus. Then mid-summer the

symptoms

> > > really started to kick in. I woke up exhausted. Sex drive was

> zip

> > > and I had trouble doing even some of the normal work tasks. I

> > > figured it was probably depression (my mom passed away suddenly

> in

> > > May).

> > >

> > > After the diagnosis the doc put me on Androgel, one 5 gm packet

a

> > > day. After two months my level was up to a whopping 245. We

> > boosted

> > > the dosage to two packets and that got me to 360 and things

were

> > > getting somewhat better. Sex drive was still virtually non-

> > existent

> > > but I was " starting " to be able to get some work done. I am

not

> > > satisfied with that level.

> > >

> > > The problem is the cost. Being self-employed, I'm also self-

> > insured

> > > and the two packet routine was running me $425 per month. With

> > that

> > > in mind my doc suggested we try injections, which are tons

> > cheaper.

> > > He started me with one cc injection of Depo (every three weeks)

> but

> > > after complaining about the return of my symptoms after ten

days

> he

> > > checked the T level and I'm right back to low 200's.

> > >

> > > Here's the questions.

> > >

> > > Can Androgel and injections be mixed? Anyone had any

experience

> > with

> > > that?

> > >

> > > Also, is it possible to use more than two packets of Androgel

per

> > day

> > > (the " recommended " maximum dosage)?

> > >

> > > My doc has upped the injections to 1.5 cc and having me come in

> > every

> > > two weeks. I'm due for a blood test on April 15th and will

need

> to

> > > make some sort of choice. I'm trying to get some ammunition

for

> my

> > > next visit.