Re: Re: New to Group (My history and questions attached)

[Guest guest]

ernestnolan,

How do they put the pellets into the body? Do you have to go in as

an out patient every 4 mos? Is this a costly procedure?

Mark

--- ernestnolan <emiles@...> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> This is near criminal what has happened to you. To bad it is

> typical

> of patients with hormone problems.

>

> My endocrinologist has a web site and will answer questions.

>

> http://www.members.aol.com/gambr999/

>

> Dr. Gamberll, Augusta, GA has been treating couples for infertility

> an

> men for andropause for decades, long before the pharmceutical

> companies brought their products to market and started telling

> doctors

> about hormones. Hollywood stars used to fly in every 4 months for

> their pellets. Bob Hope was one mentioned.

>

> Most doctors are new to hormone therapy and will not provide enough

> hormone to bring you to the high normal range of 800-1000 where you

> can really get the benefit because of fear and no experience. The

> pharmaceutical reps provide their information instead of formal

> training.

>

> Your alergic reaction is probably due to the carrier they mix with

> the

> testosterone to get it thru the skin.

>

> As another suggested, hormone pellets are bio-identical hormones

> and

> will dissolve under the skin in 4 months requiring another visit at

> that time. It is rare because of the slow release of the hormone

> that

> your body will react and start converting t to E2 which causes lots

> of

> trouble I hear when using the patch and even injections. Spurts of

> hormone cause the body to react.

>

> ernestnolan

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I am 38 years old and I was diagnosed with

> > Hypogonadism 7 years ago

> > and Klinefelter's

> > Syndrome about 5 years ago. When I was 31 I was

> > working out with a

> > personal trainer and

> > I was having trouble losing weight and gaining muscle

> > mass, he

> > suggested that I have my

> > testosterone checked and when I did at that time it

> > was 88. My PCP

> > re-checked it,

> > because they thought the results were wrong, but as

> > it turns out they

> > were correct. They

> > asked me if I was taking steriods and I replied that

> > I wasn't and

> > that I really don't like to

> > take shots nor I am taking any other drugs. They

> > waited a few months

> > and retested me

> > and the level had dropped to 63, they then sent me

> > to an

> > Endocrinologist. He diagnosed

> > me with Hypogonadism and he began to run extensive

> > tests on me,

> > however everything

> > came up negative for me, so I was still classed as

> > having

> > Hypogonadism. He retested my

> > Testosterone level and it was now at 41, so he gave

> > me one of the two

> > possible patches to

> > try. I filled the prescription and tried it for

> > five days, as it

> > turns out I was allergic to this

> > patch. Then I tried the other patch with the same

> > results. He said

> > that the pill was

> > dangerous and it would attack my liver, so he

> > suggested injections,

> > but I was skeptical as I

> > was allergic to both patches and I didn't want to

> > have an allergic

> > reaction to an injection,

> > so I self referred myself to an Allergist and he

> > tested me with the

> > Testosterone and I had

> > no allergic reaction. Low and behold me who doesn't

> > like needles, I

> > would now need to

> > get injections every 2 weeks for life. A year or two

> > after I started the injections, the endo doc gave me a

> > prescription for androgel and tried this and I

> > discovered that I was allergic to this form of

> > testosterone, too.

> >

> > The injections definitely helped with my mood

> > swings, but I was still

> > tired during the day

> > with no energy increase. So I cannot remember

> > (actually I self

> > referred myself because of

> > an excess snoring problem that I had) how or why I

> > went to have a

> > sleep study done, but it

> > turns out that I also have sleep apnea. Once I got

> > this under

> > control, I had an abundance

> > of energy.

> >

> > Now the last test that the Endo tested me for was

> > Klinefelter's

> > Syndrome and as it turns

> > out that was what I have been diagnosed with (47,

> > XXY). I asked the

> > Doc why he didn't

> > check this sooner and he said that I didn't have the

> > symptoms of KS.

> > He said that normally

> > people that have KS are tall (which I am 6' 4 " ), but

> > their arm span

> > is usually shorter (I have

> > a normal arm span).

> >

> > I have been reading comments from others about DIM.

> > What does DIM stand for? If I went into a

> > health/vitamin store and asked for DIM, would they

> > know what I wanted? What is 6-OXO, is it similar to

> > DIM?

> >

> > Just today I went and had blood work done to test both

> > my E2 and DHT levels. To my knowledge my E2 has never

> > been taken. I once asked my Endo Doc, to measure my

> > E2 level and he informed me that on a man they don't

> > know what the level should be (this was about five

> > years ago). Just recently I was talking with another

> > Doctor about bio-identical hormones, because I was

> > concerned with taking injections as I didn't want the

> > testosterone to attack my liver. This Doctor

> > suggested that I have my Estradiol and

> > Dihydrotestosterone tested, which is why I had the

> > blood work done. I work out at the gym three times a

> > week for the last two years with a personal trainer

> > and I can't seem to lose fat around my pecs. I was

> > thinking that this maybe do to excess E2 in my pec

> > area. I currently take a 1 ml (200 mg) injection once

> > every two weeks of delatestryl. My current level of

> > testosterone is 550.

> >

> > What does the group know about Bio-identical hormones?

> > It is my understanding the a bio-identical hormone,

> > is as close to the hormones that your body makes that

> > the pharmacutical companies cannot patent the

> > hormones, so therefore they cannot make any money, so

> > they don't sell the hormones. I believe that only a

> > compound pharmacist can mix up the hormones. I was

> > thinking that I could possibly take some bio-identical

> > hormones along with my testosterone and maybe reduce

> > my dosage of delatestryl.

> >

> > Feel free to comment on any or all of the above, as I

> > am seeking as much information as possible.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Mark

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

mranak,

Thanks for all of the info. As soon as I get the results I'll post.

Mark

--- m_ranak <no_reply > wrote:

>

> Mark,

>

> Thanks for briefing us on your situation. Hopefully some of the

> advice you get will help you. And to be honest, your situation

> provides the rest of us with more insight into causes and remedy

> for

> hypogonadism.

>

> Others have already mentioned it, but I would like to reaffirm that

> weekly injections are superior to the biweekly injections that you

> currently receive. The official directions for testosterone

> cypionate

> (in the USA) state a dosage of 50mg-400mg every 2-4 weeks.

> Hopefully,

> those directions will eventually be changed because such a regimen

> is

> not appropriate for the best health of the patient. The half-life

> of

> testosterone cypionate is typically 5-6 days. With dosing at

> larger

> intervals such as 2-4 weeks, the patient will generally go back and

> forth between excessively high serum testosterone and excessively

> low

> serum testosterone. DHT and E2 will move up and down as well,

> since

> they are created from the testosterone.

>

> Note: many of us use testosterone cypionate and I noticed that you

> use

> Delatestryl (testosterone enanthate). Testosterone cypionate is

> typically used in the USA (and maybe Canada; I'm not sure) and

> testosterone enanthate is more common in the rest of the world.

> Their

> half-lives and potency are very similar, so they can effectively

> interchangeable.

>

> The skin problems that you have with the testosterone patches are

> very

> common. This probably contributes significantly to most patients

> favoring treatments such as Androgel over the patches. Apparently,

> you have issues with the Androgel as well, which certainly isn't

> unheard of.

>

> Are you now giving yourself your own injections or do you go into a

> physician's office for that?

>

> In reference to the E2 (estradiol) lab test, there is often

> confusion

> because when doctors request an estradiol test, they get the

> following:

>

>

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/ri003600.htm

>

> Which is only good for testing the fertility of women. It is

> meaningless for males. Instead, the doctor should specify

> " Estradiol,

> Sensative " , so that they get the following test instead:

>

>

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/sr012000.htm

>

> You might notice that the " Estradiol, Sensative " test provides more

> specific ranges for both males and females.

>

> When doing TRT, estradiol should be controlled if necessary so that

> it

> is near middle of the range for normal. You do not want to bring

> it

> down too low, because that has health consequences as well.

>

> Arimidex (anastrozole) and Femara (letrozole) are prescription

> " aromatase inhibitors. " They are relatively new medications. The

> aromatase enzyme is what converts the androgens (e.g. testosterone)

> into the estrogens (e.g. estradiol). Arimidex is very powerful, so

> for men, dosages are often something like " one quarter tablet every

> 2

> days. " The pills are already very tiny and so breaking them up can

> be

> a bit of a challenge from what I hear. Arimidex is actually

> indicated

> for postmenopausal women with cancer. The standard dosing aims to

> bring the estradiol down to zero. That's why they don't (yet) have

> better dosed tablets for men.

>

> DIM is an effective option to control estradiol. Personally, I

> would

> prefer Arimidex because it has gone through the substantial

> clinical

> testing and evaluation that is required of new prescription

> medications. Also, physicians tend to have more experience

> controlling E2 with Arimidex than they do with other medications

> such

> as DIM. One things of mention is cost: Arimidex typically costs

> about

> $7.50 per 1mg tablet.

>

> The testosterone in such medications as Androgel is identical to

> that

> which is produced by your body. However, testosterone cypionate

> and

> testosterone enanthate are not. They have esters attached. As

> long

> as those esters are attached, the testosterone is inactive.

> Eventually, your liver will remove the esters from the molecule and

> the molecule eventually becomes a standard testosterone molecule

> that

> is identical to the testosterone that your body should normally

> produce. This was done on purpose so that not all of the

> testosterone

> hits your blood at once.

>

> So yes, this does put a little bit of work on your liver. However,

> I

> have heard of exactly zero instances of liver damage from TRT

> appropriate dosages of testosterone cypionate or testosterone

> enanthate. But, if you are concerned, then that is all the more

> reason to do the weekly injections rather than biweekly. If you

> are

> still concerned about liver damage, then you can have bloodwork

> done

> that indirectly detects liver damage.

>

> Please post the lab results from your latest bloodwork when you get

> them back. Also, be sure to include the reference ranges.

> Different

> labs have different sensitivities, so the reference ranges are

> important in determining your situation.

>

> --mranak

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I am 38 years old and I was diagnosed with

> > Hypogonadism 7 years ago

> > and Klinefelter's

> > Syndrome about 5 years ago. When I was 31 I was

> > working out with a

> > personal trainer and

> > I was having trouble losing weight and gaining muscle

> > mass, he

> > suggested that I have my

> > testosterone checked and when I did at that time it

> > was 88. My PCP

> > re-checked it,

> > because they thought the results were wrong, but as

> > it turns out they

> > were correct. They

> > asked me if I was taking steriods and I replied that

> > I wasn't and

> > that I really don't like to

> > take shots nor I am taking any other drugs. They

> > waited a few months

> > and retested me

> > and the level had dropped to 63, they then sent me

> > to an

> > Endocrinologist. He diagnosed

> > me with Hypogonadism and he began to run extensive

> > tests on me,

> > however everything

> > came up negative for me, so I was still classed as

> > having

> > Hypogonadism. He retested my

> > Testosterone level and it was now at 41, so he gave

> > me one of the two

> > possible patches to

> > try. I filled the prescription and tried it for

> > five days, as it

> > turns out I was allergic to this

> > patch. Then I tried the other patch with the same

> > results. He said

> > that the pill was

> > dangerous and it would attack my liver, so he

> > suggested injections,

> > but I was skeptical as I

> > was allergic to both patches and I didn't want to

> > have an allergic

> > reaction to an injection,

> > so I self referred myself to an Allergist and he

> > tested me with the

> > Testosterone and I had

> > no allergic reaction. Low and behold me who doesn't

> > like needles, I

> > would now need to

> > get injections every 2 weeks for life. A year or two

> > after I started the injections, the endo doc gave me a

> > prescription for androgel and tried this and I

> > discovered that I was allergic to this form of

> > testosterone, too.

> >

> > The injections definitely helped with my mood

> > swings, but I was still

> > tired during the day

> > with no energy increase. So I cannot remember

> > (actually I self

> > referred myself because of

> > an excess snoring problem that I had) how or why I

>

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