Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hi, I started with Androderm patches in 1998. Discontinued them because they left red irritated spots on the skin, left hard-to-remove adhesive deposits, and fell off during sweaty work in warm weather. Went to AndroGel in late 2000, 5mg/day, increased to 10mg/day. I didn't like concerns about getting it on my wife ( " I love you, honey, but I have to take a shower first " ). Discontinued AG because it just wasn't getting my T levels high enough, I'm one of the people who just don't absorb it well. Went to shots in 2002, Delatestryl (T-enanthate), 200mg IM every 3 weeks. After several months my wife learned how to do give shots, saving trips to the doc's office. Results were poor because 3 weeks is too far apart: I had the classic peaks and valleys roller-coaster effect. A new doc switched me to T-cypionate subQ in 2004, which is now at 100mg/week. I also tried pellet implantation in early 2004, but for some rare unknown reason they failed. I think that was a freak event, and I would try them again, but I'm getting good results with injections. Compounded testosterone gels or creams are available from compounding pharmacies, a good alternative to AndroGel. I never used them, but I was paying $96/month co-pay for AG 10mg/day. Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if a month's supply of compounded gel would cost less even without insurance. Oral testosterone has a reputation for working poorly. There's something (Striant) that is supposed to adhere to the gums, but it I don't know anyone who has liked it or stayed on it. I don't know anything about scrotal patches. I understand applying AG to the testicles increases DHT through the roof, causing prostate problems & possible hair loss. You'd do well to get a copy of " The Testoterone Syndrome " , by Eugene Shippen, MD. (Note: he write that shots are the worst way to go, but I think he's changed his position- provided shots aren't timed too far apart.) Best, Bruce > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > do you go to the doctors? > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > contaminating sex partners? > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > <sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 , I'm on weekly injections of 120mg. My wife learned how to do them from her mom (her mom is a nurse). Still fine tuning the dosage. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hi the Gels work good for a lot of men. But for me I have to much joint and muscle pain on them. I am doing shots now and feel the best I have ever felt in the 21 yrs. that I have been on TRT. Doing the max dose of Androgel or Testim does not get my levels up high enough and using them had my DHT 2 times over the top of the range on my blood test. For yrs. my Dr. has added the shot to my gels to keep my levels up but doing this drives up my E2 Estradiol levels bad. I kept telling my Dr. it makes no since to do both why not do just the shots. It took a long time but now I am not just shots started at 100 mgs. every week then uppped it to 150 mgs. when my test came back on the low side I need my Total T over 800 better at 1000. This is the best I have felt in the 21 yrs. being on TRT. Phil james186282 <pillow@...> wrote: Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or do you go to the doctors? Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about contaminating sex partners? p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. <sigh> --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Thanks for the feedback Bruce. I goofed when if I said Androderm. I'm currently on Androgel myself. So far it seems to be ok. No red sploches etc. I'm only on my third application so nothing much to report. *I've got my fingers crossed however. My doctor hinted that the 5mg / day may very well need to be upped. I'll have to see how much is absorbed and how my malfunctioning male equipment decides what it's going to do. The estrogens have not really been addressed but I picked up DIM 100 mg today and am trying to figure out how many / how often. I've been taking a daily zinc tablet 50 mg per the advice. BTW I did read the Testosterone Syndrome. I gave it to my Doctor as a gift. She is very talented but admited she is not as up to speed in mens hormones as she is in the womens. Anyway to make a long story short I gave her the book after we went over some of the data I got from the library files here and she seemed very pleased. I think probably mostly because I've not been a proactive about my health as she would like me to be. Just between you me and the internet - Having your libido go to zero and having your wife uptight has a way of motivating a guy... ;-) I guess from what you say the Androderm is probably not all that great. I've got little to no hair so less wouldn't bother me but patches there would tend to get as hot and fall off as anywhere else I suppose. If the doctor asks I opt to stick with Androgel for now. BTW Insurance covers most of this so compounding is out for me. Too expensive! BTW are you the same bruce as on supportEDforum? > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > > do you go to the doctors? > > > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > > contaminating sex partners? > > > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > > <sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 BTW my docs other option was a monthly shot at some huge amount of T. I said thanks but NO WAY! I heard about the roller coaster. I've got enough problems without battling my wife for who has the most PMS ;-) > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > > do you go to the doctors? > > > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > > contaminating sex partners? > > > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > > <sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 shots are good if the gel does not work but not monthly but every week a good start is 100 mgs every week. Phil james186282 <pillow@...> wrote: BTW my docs other option was a monthly shot at some huge amount of T. I said thanks but NO WAY! I heard about the roller coaster. I've got enough problems without battling my wife for who has the most PMS ;-) > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > > do you go to the doctors? > > > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > > contaminating sex partners? > > > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > > <sigh> --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 >BTW Insurance covers most of this so compounding is out for me. Too >expensive! > Compounded T would be less, probably, than your copay for your insurance-covered T. Even though I had insurance I switched over to compounded because it was cheaper and I did not have to worry about whether the insurance would cover someone who was within " the range " but very low. I dont have insurance now but if I did it would not make any difference. You can get the equivalent of about 10grams a day for about 20 dollars a month. I dont keep up with prices anymore but lets say that Androgel in that amount would be closer to 180 dollars a month and then you pay a copay. It is all a racket. Androgel claims to have a better delivery system but so what. I tried the compounded and it put my T through the roof until I lowered it. And even if Androgel does absorb better you can easily just use a little more of the compounded to compensate. All of those brand names are hyped up because that is what the pharmaceutical reps hype to the docs. The docs barely know anything about testosterone anyway and so when you get over into compounded T they are at a total loss. It is easier to just go with what their rep hypes to them which is ungodly expensive. There are probably a few guys out there for whom only androgel works. That does not change anything. That is true of all generic versus brand name drugs. Winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hi , AndroGel might or might not be okay for you, everyone's different. Too soon to think about switching. Your doc already knows the dosage might need to be increased, that puts her ahead of most TRT docs. No, I'm not the same bruce who's on supportEDforum. Bruce > > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > > > > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > > > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > > > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > > > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > > > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > > > do you go to the doctors? > > > > > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > > > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > > > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > > > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > > > contaminating sex partners? > > > > > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > > > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > > > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly > appreciated. > > > <sigh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hi , If you're worried about cost, forget insurance. Using your insurance is the EXPENSIVE way to go. You can do injections for about $120 a year if you're not taking hCG (see yesterdays digest). I think compounding cream is fairly cheap too, but I don't really know how many jars you go through in a year. I seem to remember someone posting that the jars were about 50 bucks? Anyone? Louis Nardozi > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:27:44 -0000 > From: " james186282 " <pillow@...> > Subject: HRT Choices > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > do you go to the doctors? > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > contaminating sex partners? > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > <sigh> > > > > > > > > _ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hi Louis: Thanks for the message. My copay is $25 a month for Androgel. Which for me is still affordable. I think Gene told me he was paying $180 a week for good compounding stuff. Good for him but just not doingable for the blue collar guy here in the midwest. I'm not interested in herbal stuff made by guys in garages ;-) if thats what we are talking about. > Hi , > > If you're worried about cost, forget insurance. Using your insurance is > the EXPENSIVE way to go. You can do injections for about $120 a year if > you're not taking hCG (see yesterdays digest). I think compounding cream > is fairly cheap too, but I don't really know how many jars you go > through in a year. I seem to remember someone posting that the jars were > about 50 bucks? Anyone? > > Louis Nardozi > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:27:44 -0000 > > From: " james186282 " <pillow@m...> > > Subject: HRT Choices > > > > Sorry for cross posting this on a few forums but my questions are... > > > > My Doctor has started me on Androgel. No problems but she said I > > would opt for a different delivery system if I thought I would like a > > different one better. Can you guys who are using other systems please > > tell me more about patches vrs gels? Also injections re the > > effectivness and what schedual you use. And do you inject yourself or > > do you go to the doctors? > > > > Last I've read about the effectivness of the scrotal patch. Is this > > no longer available? Was there an issue with delivery in this region? > > My Androgel specificaly says DON'T apply there. Why? Wouldn't it > > make sense for it to come from that area or are we worrying about > > contaminating sex partners? > > > > p.s. My insurance won't cover compounding pharmacy so even though this > > sounds better I'm stuck with the standard options. BTW any other > > suggestions to a new member of the " club " would be greatly appreciated. > > <sigh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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