Re: Testosterone supplementation

April 6, 2001

Hi, Steve,

>Since I do not have much money I take androgel testosterone & I

take

>an amount higher than the replacement dose -- if you take artificial

>testosterone your natural production stops so it is an all or nothing

>proposition.

The situation is more complicated than that. There are several different

types of testosterone deficiencies, which will react differently to added

testosterone.

Primary testosterone deficiency (this is me) results when the signals (ACTH

and FSH hormones) are going to the adrenals and testes to make testosterone,

but they don't make enough. Adding testosterone in this case does not result

in a drop in whatever endogenous production there is until you get to a high

testosterone state, and the feedback loop kicks in to slow down the

pituitary's output of FSH. Adding less testosterone will result in a signal

that will induce testosterone production again - even if it stays deficient.

Secondary testosterone deficiency results from a lack of pituaitary

production of FSH and ACTH. This means the problem is in the hypothalamus.

Adding testosterone in this case shuts down the endogenous production

completely. If done long enough the testosterone-producing tissues will

atrophy. _That's_ when you are stuck with added testosterone for the rest of

your life.

There is also a condition of testosterone oversensitivity, that results in

low testosterone levels. (Usually this is shown by other problems rather

than by measuring testosterone levels.) Adding testosterone in this case not

only shuts down the endogenous production, but overstimulates

testosterone-responsive tissues throughout the body, leading to more

problems instead of less. This kind of low testosterone condition is rare.

Jerry

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July 13, 2004

,

Yes, testosterone supplementation will make your husband sterile. The

real question is whether his low T is caused by testicular failure

(Primary Hypogonadism) or pituitary failure (Secondary Hypogonadism).

Secondary can possibly be treated with HCG, which will preserve

fertility. Primary cannot.

For more information, read the AACE guidelines in our Links section

(to the left here). You need a lot more information before knowing

how to treat your husbands condition. Has he been checked for

fertility? If he is currently fertile another option for you might be

sperm banking.

Regards,

K4

> Hi everyone,

>

> I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question.

My

> husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low

testosterone

> levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

> sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

> supplementation either through injections or the creams you can

get.

> Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

> determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would

both

> like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

> supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

> work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested

in

> learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

> can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been

purusing

> this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

> this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone

could

> give me any further information or point me in the right direction,

I

> would really appreciate it.

>

> Yours truly,

>

July 13, 2004

,

Yes, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) generally makes a man sterile;

this does not happen over night but over some weeks and is reversible after

TRT is discontinued.

Other members here know more about it, but from what I've read and

experience my b/f had...HCG might be a good option to try jumpstarting your

husband's nuts. I did a Google search using +human chorionic

gonadotropic hormone and this is link to page of links

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=UTF-8 & q=%2Bhuman+chorionic+gonadotropi

c+hormone & spell=1

To get some information couple years ago I Googled it...something to effect

of testosterone replacement therapy in men and sterility...came up with

several definitive sites.

Good luck,

OR eon

GayMan

Testosterone supplementation

Hi everyone,

I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

would really appreciate it.

Yours truly,

July 13, 2004

,

This was too long

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=UTF-8 & q=%2Bhuman+chorionic+gonadotropi

c+hormone & spell=1

If you copy that and paste into your browser, it will carry you to Google

search results,

OR eon

Testosterone supplementation

Hi everyone,

I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

would really appreciate it.

Yours truly,

July 13, 2004

Is he having specific symptoms that you want to fix or do you want to just

restore his testosterone level in general?

Winter

>From: " diana_milligan2000 " <diana_milligan2000@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Testosterone supplementation

>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:48:43 -0000

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

>husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

>levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

>sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

>supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

>Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

>determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

>like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

>supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

>work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

>learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

>can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

>this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

>this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

>give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

>would really appreciate it.

>

>Yours truly,

>

July 13, 2004

There is always the possibility of freezing sperm before going on treatment.

A man's fertility will probably come back if TRT is discontinued but it is

not a certainty because, among other things, a man may have low fertility

that was headed downhill anyway before TRT. That is why more baseline

testing around LH and fetility is needed. If a man has primary hypo at 25

that is deteriorating, no one can assure that he will be fertile after

several years on TRT and then discontinuing. On the other hand there are

plenty of men with low T and high fertility. The whole thing starts getting

iffy below 200 though, I think. HCG is a must to consider as has been

mentioned.

Winter

>From: " OR eon " <oreon@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: RE: Testosterone supplementation

>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:12:32 -0500

>

>,

>

>Yes, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) generally makes a man sterile;

>this does not happen over night but over some weeks and is reversible after

>TRT is discontinued.

>

>Other members here know more about it, but from what I've read and

>experience my b/f had...HCG might be a good option to try jumpstarting your

>husband's nuts. I did a Google search using +human chorionic

>gonadotropic hormone and this is link to page of links

>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=UTF-8 & q=%2Bhuman+chorionic+gonadotropi

>c+hormone & spell=1

>

>To get some information couple years ago I Googled it...something to effect

>of testosterone replacement therapy in men and sterility...came up with

>several definitive sites.

>

>Good luck,

>

>OR eon

>GayMan

>

> Testosterone supplementation

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

>husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

>levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

>sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

>supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

>Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

>determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

>like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

>supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

>work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

>learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

>can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

>this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

>this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

>give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

>would really appreciate it.

>

>Yours truly,

>

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:12:32 -0500, you wrote:

>Yes, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) generally makes a man sterile;

>this does not happen over night but over some weeks and is reversible after

>TRT is discontinued.

Depending on how long he's been on T therapy. It's not 100% and after

years of therapy there may be no recovery of fertility.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:48:43 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone,

>

>I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

>husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

>levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

>sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

>supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

>Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

>determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

>like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

>supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

>work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

>learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

>can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

>this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

>this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

>give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

>would really appreciate it.

>

>Yours truly,

>

You've already gotten some good answers. hCG is a therapy that allows

fertility and sperm production.

TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) will make him sterile.

Look through our links and files section as well. Look at the aace

guidelines to understand the condition, causes and what the tests are

that are being done now.

http://f2.grp.fs.com/v1/EBX0QNJ1g3xpXPOvBXEfxlgtMn53JQguQHf9-FThlapmyVQEFG8\

_JY6GIgiehK9w1mNk9hl5eNVi_OMoIlrR2ddbNPRAMhOHBOBWgaE/AACE%20Hypogonadism%20Guide\

lines.pdf

A best practices manual for TRT

http://merck.micromedex.com/bpm/bpm.asp?page=CPM02EN318 & section=report

Normal T ranges by age:

http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

Make sure his tests include ferritn and prolactin. They'll be doing

FSH LH almost assuredly.

Did your husband use propecia or steroids in the past?

Come back when you get results and talk with us. There's a 1000

members here and a lot of experience and help.

Odds are you're going to be very happy when your husband starts

getting well. He'll have energy, ambition, focus increased.

And a healthy libido (be forewarned.) ;->

As to kids - were you planning on waiting or trying soon?

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

July 13, 2004

Winter,

Our situation is somewhat complicated. We've been trying to get

pregnant for about six months, which has been difficult because my

husband struggles with very low libido and some erectile

dysfunction. (He can sometimes get and maintain a usable erection,

and sometimes cannot). He was understandably embarrassed about this

problem and so his first visit to the urologist was just a few weeks

ago. Our primary wishes were to increase libido and improve erection

quality overall, but fertility is our secondary goal. I'm not sure

how to discuss this with our doctor. We asked him specifically if

TRT would affect fertility, and he said no! Right now I'm just

trying to learn as much as I can so we can figure out the best move

to make next.

~

> Is he having specific symptoms that you want to fix or do you want

to just

> restore his testosterone level in general?

>

> Winter

>

> >From: " diana_milligan2000 " <diana_milligan2000@y...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Testosterone supplementation

> >Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:48:43 -0000

> >

> >Hi everyone,

> >

> >I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question.

My

> >husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low

testosterone

> >levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

> >sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

> >supplementation either through injections or the creams you can

get.

> >Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

> >determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would

both

> >like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

> >supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

> >work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested

in

> >learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

> >can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been

purusing

> >this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

> >this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone

could

> >give me any further information or point me in the right

direction, I

> >would really appreciate it.

> >

> >Yours truly,

> >

July 13, 2004

,

Go to www.tuneupyourt.com and look for one of these Dr.'s in your area.

Lot's of good advice given to you so far.

Let me say this: you better study, study, study. Don't leave this problem to

the Dr.'s. If they make a mistake, then it becomes your problem not theirs.

You have the most to gain/lose.

As for being embarrased about metioning low T symptoms, your hubby needs to

get over it. Most Dr.s are highly intelligent, conservative people, operating

in a clinical fashion: they see this stuff day and day out - your husband is

just another patient. They will not be laughing when you leave.

It is important that your husband get his problem diagnosed. 200 ng/dl puts

him at risk for other diseases.

Go to the links section and start reading. In the meantime get those

previously mentioned AACE guidelines and go to the section on why people have

low T.

Eliminate the possible causes one by one.

In a message dated 7/13/2004 1:09:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

diana_milligan2000@... writes:

Hi everyone,

I'm brand-new to this board, and I have a very specific question. My

husband has recently been diagnosed with abnormally low testosterone

levels (he is 30 and has levels in the " 200s " , if that makes any

sense to anyone), and our doctor has suggested he receive

supplementation either through injections or the creams you can get.

Right now we are awaiting some test results which are aimed at

determining why he has this problem. In the meantime, we would both

like to start a family but have heard that testosterone

supplementation will make him sterile. While we are continuing to

work with a number of professionals on this issue, I am interested in

learning more about this question before our next appointment, so I

can have a better idea of what to ask/do next. I have been purusing

this site, but so far have been unable to find anything related to

this specific question. I will continue to look, but if anyone could

give me any further information or point me in the right direction, I

would really appreciate it.

Yours truly,

July 13, 2004

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:23:06 -0000, you wrote:

>Our situation is somewhat complicated. We've been trying to get

>pregnant for about six months, which has been difficult because my

>husband struggles with very low libido and some erectile

>dysfunction. (He can sometimes get and maintain a usable erection,

>and sometimes cannot). He was understandably embarrassed about this

>problem and so his first visit to the urologist was just a few weeks

>ago. Our primary wishes were to increase libido and improve erection

>quality overall, but fertility is our secondary goal. I'm not sure

>how to discuss this with our doctor. We asked him specifically if

>TRT would affect fertility, and he said no! Right now I'm just

>trying to learn as much as I can so we can figure out the best move

>to make next.

Oh on the tests also see he gets tested for E2 -estradiol.

Testosterone breaks down into E2 and DHT (another form of

testosterone). High E2 levels will drop libido and cause erectile

issues.

Sometimes taking arimidex (an E2 conversion blocker alone can boost T

200 to 300 points, lower E2 and improve erection issues.

Should he start on TRT he will want to keep getting tested for E2 at

each test run also.

The E2 stuff is relatively new and most endos and urologists don't

seem to understand or know much about it. People here will tell you

its as important and sometimes more important than T levels.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

July 13, 2004

I am secondary and have just restarted on T injections. I saw a

urologist/male infertility specialist for an opinion on the

infertility issues. He said he has been able to restart men's

fertility after they have been on T for a couple years using HCG and

other drugs.

Another option I think is to use T in conjuction with HCG. That way

you don't get the atrophy but you still get the benefit of the higher

T. I think that is what my endo is eventually going to do, but she

wants to get my levels up on the T alone first.

Mark

July 13, 2004

FYI,

The urologist told me I am already pretty much infertile due to the

low LH and FSH and T. (LH is the pituitary hormone that tells the

testicles to make testosterone, and FSH is the hormone that tells them

to make sperm). As others have said, I would strongly recommend

finding out if your husband is primary (testicular failure) or

secondary (pituitary and/or hypothalamus failure) before going on a

treatment regimen.

Mark

July 13, 2004

Testosterone replacement will kill his fertility - period, at least while he

is on it. Some men recover after discontinuing but if he is marginally

fertile before then it will not help. You need to determine his fertility

level aside from the issue of being able to copulate. Those are two

different issues although both important.

Stimulation of the testicles through HCG would not decrease fertility and

would in fact increase it but it is only an option if the hypogonadism is

secondary. You would need to deal with an endo who has more knowledge than

yours and read up a little by getting a copy of the The Testosterone

Solution by Eugene Shippen. It takes a little background reading.

Winter

>From: " diana_milligan2000 " <diana_milligan2000@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Testosterone supplementation

>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:23:06 -0000

>

>Winter,