Re: Testosterone injection options

[Guest guest]

From my understanding, any kind of testosterone you inject will be

unnatural to the body. The only natural testosterone is the one

produced by your testicles and adrenals.

> Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone injections?

I

> know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

know

> what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

the

> body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the same

as

> naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

becomes

> what would be the closest injectable method to naturally produced

> testosterone?

>

>

> WH

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body, I'm

not too sure.

> > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

injections?

> I

> > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

> know

> > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

> the

> > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

same

> as

> > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> becomes

> > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

produced

> > testosterone?

> >

> >

> > WH

[Guest guest]

These articles indicate that the injectable options are Testosterone

Cypionate or Enanthate here in the US, these are esters of

testosterone. I wonder if there are others.

http://www.duj.com/Article/Hellstrom2/Hellstrom2.html

http://www.medibolics.com/freq2.htm

I have read that hormone replacement therapy (HRT) in women caused

side effects like stroke. Some speculate that it was not the estrogen

but the drugs used in HRT that caused the side effects. That is why I

am a bit concerned about injections should I need to go to a higher

dose than the 10 grams AG/day I am currently taking.

WH

> Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body,

I'm

> not too sure.

>

[Guest guest]

My question to you is: why not just go to a higher dosage of gel or

cream? I mean, it seems to be working somewhat. Just because the

drug maker has 10g as their highest dosage does not mean you are

limited to that. You've got several options. You could apply 15g

Androgel a day (using 10g + 5 g dosages), or you could switch to a

specially compounded cream (which would also be cheaper if you are

worried about insurance not covering it). Legally, there is

absolutely nothing wrong with going above an FDA approved dose,

doctors do it all the time in many different fields - some people

just don't absorb certain drugs well. Not that the 10g Androgel is

the FDA limit anyway, its just the highest dosage that particular

company happens to manufacture.

Most people on TRT agree that gels/creams are the best way to go.

Unless you absolutely cannot absorb enough through your skin no

matter the dosage, or you have some other sort of problem with gels

or creams (rashes, etc.) I see no reason to go to injections. Hell,

if anything the next thing I'd go to is a pill, maybe even combined

with the cream or gel.

There is a tremendous advantage in being able to adjust your dosage

on a day to day basis, especially when trying to find your optimal

dose. I had a few mild scares using the cream where I used too much

and had some side effects. Because of the short half life, the side

effects only lasted about an hour. I would have been in hell if they

lasted several days as they do if you overdose on the shot.

> > Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> > closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body,

> I'm

> > not too sure.

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, in the US it is cypionate or enanthate. There are others but the

half life is shorter or the drug is not available in the US. I

understand your concern but I would not worry about it. Injections of

" natural " testosterone are unsuitable because it wouldn't last long

enough in the body. You would have to have inject it every day or

perhaps more often to keep stable levels. Esterification is not

necessary for transdermal preparations due to daily application.

Esterification increases the testosterone's solubility in oil and

increases it's duration of action. In your body the process is

reversed (the ester undergoes hydrolysis). The " cypionate " or

" enanthate " part is cleaved away and " natural " t is produced in the

reaction. The process works similarly for various esters. They all

eventually produce unesterified testosterone. The practical

differences are availability in the US and how long the shot will

last. I think testosterone propionate may still be available in the

US but it would require more frequent injections and I see no

particular advantage.

Brad

> > Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> > closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body,

> I'm

> > not too sure.

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be termed

natural.

They are all anabolic steroids.

Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but don't go

rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find. A

chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what creates

the steroid.

I believe the gels are the best option, but they are not " natural "

either.

They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's own daily cycle.

I hope this helps,

Nick

> Testosterone injection options

>

>

> Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone injections? I

> know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to know

> what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that the

> body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the same as

> naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question becomes

> what would be the closest injectable method to naturally produced

> testosterone?

>

>

> WH

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you go looking for Enanthate, you might be unlucky.

However, Delatestryl is available and is Enanthate by another name.

The only other one I know of is available everywhere but North America

is Sustanon, which is produced by Organon.

Sustanon contains a cocktail of esters, including Cypionate and

Propionate.

I hope this helps.

Nick

> Re: Testosterone injection options

>

>

> These articles indicate that the injectable options are Testosterone

> Cypionate or Enanthate here in the US, these are esters of

> testosterone. I wonder if there are others.

>

http://www.duj.com/Article/Hellstrom2/Hellstrom2.html

http://www.medibolics.com/freq2.htm

I have read that hormone replacement therapy (HRT) in women caused

side effects like stroke. Some speculate that it was not the estrogen

but the drugs used in HRT that caused the side effects. That is why I

am a bit concerned about injections should I need to go to a higher

dose than the 10 grams AG/day I am currently taking.

WH

> Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body,

I'm

> not too sure.

>

[Guest guest]

This is a good idea, thanks. I like the gel and it has worked for me

but I am not getting to the 800 level on 10g/day. 10g is an arbitrary

level, perhaps a compounding pharmacy would be something to consider.

I meet with my Endo tomorrow, should be an interesting conversation.

WH

> > > Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> > > closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your

body,

> > I'm

> > > not too sure.

> > >

[Guest guest]

Interesting, this board is quite an amazing place. Pretty steep

learning curve present here.

WH

> > > Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> > > closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your

body,

> > I'm

> > > not too sure.

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, you have all helped and I thank you for that. This HG is a heck

of a thing to have. Going into the Endo as informed as possible has

helped tremendously.

WH

> I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be termed

> natural.

> They are all anabolic steroids.

>

> Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but don't go

> rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find. A

> chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what

creates

> the steroid.

>

> I believe the gels are the best option, but they are not " natural "

> either.

> They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's own daily

cycle.

>

> I hope this helps,

>

> Nick

>

>

>

>

>

> > Testosterone injection options

> >

> >

> > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

injections? I

> > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

know

> > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

the

> > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the same

as

> > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

becomes

> > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally produced

> > testosterone?

> >

> >

> > WH

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Your comment about the WHI study may have been due to something other

than the estrogen is right on according to my doctor. He blames the

pharmaceutical house for trying to create a pill that would provide

the benefits of ERT without the period which must be induced by the

taking of progesterone monthly for several days.

His web site has a discussion of the study and the unfounded fear that

has resulted about hormone therapy (in his opinion).

http://www.members.aol.com/gambr999/study.htm

There are pellets of testosterone that are a crystaline form of the

hormone. As I understand this is identical to the bodies testosterone

and because it enters the body gradually over 4 months or so, there is

no adverse estrogen effect.

ernestnolan

> > Sorry about the last post, I misread your message. As for the

> > closest form of testosterone to natural T produced by your body,

> I'm

> > not too sure.

> >

[Guest guest]

Testosterone you inject is exactly the same chemical composition as

testosterone that your body will naturally produce. They are exactly

the same.

> > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

injections?

> I

> > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

> know

> > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

> the

> > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

same

> as

> > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> becomes

> > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

produced

> > testosterone?

> >

> >

> > WH

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I don't agree. Injectable testosterone is exactly the same

as " natural testosterone " . There is no difference whatsoever. They

are chemically identical. Injectable testosterone, testosterone from

gel etc. are all 100% identical to testosterone that is produced in

the body.

The only difference between different types of testosterone ie. gel,

pellets, t-cypionate, t-ethonate, etc. etc.etc.

is the delivery method. They are all just different methods of

getting the testosterone into your body. Testosterone is not soy or

something, it is chemically identical to what is produced in the

body and is for that reason, natural.

Armyguy

> I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be termed

> natural.

> They are all anabolic steroids.

>

> Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but don't go

> rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find. A

> chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what

creates

> the steroid.

>

> I believe the gels are the best option, but they are not " natural "

> either.

> They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's own daily

cycle.

>

> I hope this helps,

>

> Nick

>

>

>

>

>

> > Testosterone injection options

> >

> >

> > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

injections? I

> > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

know

> > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

the

> > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

same as

> > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

becomes

> > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

produced

> > testosterone?

> >

> >

> > WH

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I tried both Androgel and weekly injections. Both are effective for

me. I personally prefer injections and have had no problems with them

other than occasional discomfort at the injection site.

Do you know what dosage was injected?

The level in your bloodstream will rise almost immediately. How long

it takes for symptoms to abate is difficult to predict. Should you

not begin to feel better it may be a dosing issue (too low or too

high) rather than the form of replacement.

Brad

> I am new to this group so please excuse me if I am asking a question

that has been addressed before. I was recently diagnosed with

" low/normal " total testosterone level and a " low " bio-available level.

My Urologist suggested we start off with testosterone injections. I

had my first one yesterday and my question is how long before I should

notice any changes or improvements in my condition? I have been

experiencing all of the typical problems such as no libido, weight

gain, sporadic depression, etc. I realize that everyone's chemistry

is different and that injections may not be the best delivery system.

This is why I would like to know what is a reasonable time to

continue with the injections before suggesting another route. I am

grateful for any thoughts from members of this group who have already

been down this road. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I don't know what the dosage was. So far all I have felt is a lot of fatigue.

This is why I am curious as to what to expect and when I might see some

improvement.

Re: Testosterone injection options

I tried both Androgel and weekly injections. Both are effective for

me. I personally prefer injections and have had no problems with them

other than occasional discomfort at the injection site.

Do you know what dosage was injected?

The level in your bloodstream will rise almost immediately. How long

it takes for symptoms to abate is difficult to predict. Should you

not begin to feel better it may be a dosing issue (too low or too

high) rather than the form of replacement.

Brad

> I am new to this group so please excuse me if I am asking a question

that has been addressed before. I was recently diagnosed with

" low/normal " total testosterone level and a " low " bio-available level.

My Urologist suggested we start off with testosterone injections. I

had my first one yesterday and my question is how long before I should

notice any changes or improvements in my condition? I have been

experiencing all of the typical problems such as no libido, weight

gain, sporadic depression, etc. I realize that everyone's chemistry

is different and that injections may not be the best delivery system.

This is why I would like to know what is a reasonable time to

continue with the injections before suggesting another route. I am

grateful for any thoughts from members of this group who have already

been down this road. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Armyguy,

Without getting too picky, and to use a famous phrase,

I guess it depends on what your definition of natural is.

The reason I say no Testosterone therapy can be considered natural is

because it is all chemically synthesised amentioned before. I understand

they are all anabolic steroids.

Browne-Sequard, who discovered the benefits of T therapy in the 19th

century used Testosterone extracted from sheeps nuts. That in my context

was natural Testosterone.

Nick

> Nick,

>

> I don't agree. Injectable testosterone is exactly the same

> as " natural testosterone " . There is no difference whatsoever. They

> are chemically identical. Injectable testosterone, testosterone from

> gel etc. are all 100% identical to testosterone that is produced in

> the body.

>

> The only difference between different types of testosterone ie. gel,

> pellets, t-cypionate, t-ethonate, etc. etc.etc.

>

> is the delivery method. They are all just different methods of

> getting the testosterone into your body. Testosterone is not soy or

> something, it is chemically identical to what is produced in the

> body and is for that reason, natural.

>

> Armyguy

>

>

> > I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be termed

> > natural. They are all anabolic steroids.

> >

> > Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but don't go

> > rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find. A

> > chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what

> creates

> > the steroid.

> >

> > I believe the gels are the best option, but they are not " natural "

> > either. They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's own

> > daily

> cycle.

> >

> > I hope this helps,

> >

> > Nick

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Testosterone injection options

> > >

> > >

> > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> injections? I

> > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like to

> know

> > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form that

> the

> > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

> same as

> > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> becomes

> > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> produced

> > > testosterone?

> > >

> > >

> > > WH

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

FYI, I don't believe pure T is typically called an anabolic steriod.

The term is typically reserved for specialized compounds specifically

designed to maximize the anabolic (muscle building) effects of

testosterone while minimizing the androgenic (hair growth, libido,

etc.) effects. Pure testosterone is actually quite inefficient to

body-builders - too many " side effects " for the amount of muscle

growth.

While of course pure T does have anabolic effects, and is technically

a " steriod " , I've never heard it called an anabolic steriod.

> > > I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be

termed

> > > natural. They are all anabolic steroids.

> > >

> > > Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but

don't go

> > > rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find.

A

> > > chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what

> > creates

> > > the steroid.

> > >

> > > I believe the gels are the best option, but they are

not " natural "

> > > either. They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's

own

> > > daily

> > cycle.

> > >

> > > I hope this helps,

> > >

> > > Nick

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Testosterone injection options

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> > injections? I

> > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like

to

> > know

> > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option. The

> > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form

that

> > the

> > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

> > same as

> > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> > becomes

> > > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> > produced

> > > > testosterone?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > WH

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Natural testosterone from your body is an anabolic steroid... yet it

is still natural. Testosterone is chemical compound. The stuff you

put in your body is the same as the stuff your body makes. The

difference between injectable testosterone like cypionate, ethonate,

etc. etc. is just the oil that the testosterone is in.

Testosterone is most definitely " natural " . It is the same stuff that

your body makes. Something like Prozac is not natural, because

prozac is an invention from a lab, it is not produced in nature.

Testosterone is produced in nature and is identical whether you

inject it, rub it on with gel, or your body makes it.

Armyguy

> > > I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be

termed

> > > natural. They are all anabolic steroids.

> > >

> > > Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but

don't go

> > > rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can find.

A

> > > chemical process is used to make this happen and that is what

> > creates

> > > the steroid.

> > >

> > > I believe the gels are the best option, but they are

not " natural "

> > > either. They just do a much better job of mimicking the body's

own

> > > daily

> > cycle.

> > >

> > > I hope this helps,

> > >

> > > Nick

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Testosterone injection options

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> > injections? I

> > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would

like to

> > know

> > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone option.

The

> > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form

that

> > the

> > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

> > same as

> > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> > becomes

> > > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> > produced

> > > > testosterone?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > WH

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I know doctors that provide hormone pellet therapy are hard to find

but well worth the trouble.

Only have to get new pellets every 4 months and there is no day to day

involvement. The constant dosage is also very good for keeping E

problems at a minimun. The costs are very near the same as It costs

about $400 - $450 for 20 75mg pellets to be installed under the skin

including the visit. The crystal pellet contains the same T as in the

human body. No worries about rubbing T on the spouse or kids.

ernestnolan

[Guest guest]

Good luck, RD, with everything. I can tell you only about myself.

When I finally got put on T injections, I felt the effects the very

next day. My energy levels weren't up where I like them or anything--

that took two days--but my labido was through the roof. A half year

into treatment, I notice that two days is what it takes to get me

feeling good again.

Again, good luck!

Markus

> >

> > > I am new to this group so please excuse me if I am asking a

> > question that has been addressed before. I was recently

> diagnosed

> > with " low/normal " total testosterone level and a " low " bio-

> available

> > level. My Urologist suggested we start off with testosterone

> > injections. I had my first one yesterday and my question is

how

> > long before I should notice any changes or improvements in my

> > condition? I have been experiencing all of the typical...

[Guest guest]

Back to the definitions game I think. What do you describe as pure T?

The fact that Sustanon 250 is widely used in Bodybuilding world

wide,(even in the US where is not available commercially), and is the

most popular injectable outside of North America for Testosterone

therapy, sort of makes my point for me I think.

Best wishes,

Nick

> Testosterone injection options

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> > > injections? I

> > > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would like

> to

> > > know

> > > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone

> option. The

> > > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same form

> that

> > > the

> > > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are the

> > > same as

> > > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real question

> > > becomes

> > > > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> > > produced

> > > > > testosterone?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > WH

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

T-Cyp, Ethonate and Sustanon 250 are all used in the bodybuilding

world very very very frequently. Testosterone is an anabolic

steroid. That is what it is chemically classified as. The stuff that

your testicles produce is testosterone, an anabolic steroid. Exactly

the same stuff that you get with TRT, whatever method of delivery

you choose. Therefore, it is 100% natural.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> > > > > I don't think there is an injectable that can in any way be

> > termed

> > > > > natural. They are all anabolic steroids.

> > > > >

> > > > > Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone, but

> > don't go

> > > > > rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you can

find.

> > A

> > > > > chemical process is used to make this happen and that is

what

> > > > creates

> > > > > the steroid.

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe the gels are the best option, but they are

> > not " natural "

> > > > > either. They just do a much better job of mimicking the

body's

> > own

> > > > > daily

> > > > cycle.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope this helps,

> > > > >

> > > > > Nick

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Testosterone injection options

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> > > > injections? I

> > > > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would

like

> > to

> > > > know

> > > > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone

> > option. The

> > > > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same

form

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are

the

> > > > same as

> > > > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real

question

> > > > becomes

> > > > > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> > > > produced

> > > > > > testosterone?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > WH

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

If I could go an pick a leaf, plant, or fruit, and eat it and it

contained testosterone therapy, I would agree, but I cannot.

As far as I am concerned, if a product has to go through a chemical

process before being usable by a human being, then it is a man-made

extract and cannot be said to be natural.

I know I am being picky, but many people in the world are looking for

" natural therapy " that complies with the definition cited above.

I appreciate what you are saying, but even that isn't quite right

because the Testosterone we use is modified to extend its half-life for

some kinds of therapy and altered to miss out the liver in others.

I have an article someone sent me a today

MINI REVIEW

Intrinsic imperfections of endocrine replacement therapy

J A Romijn, J WA Smit and S W J Lamberts

Department of Endocrinology, Leiden University Medical Center, Leiden

and Department of Internal Medicine, Erasmus Medical Center,

Rotterdam University, Rotterdam, The Netherlands

European Journal of Endocrinology (2003) 149 91-97 ISSN 0804-4643

It explains the whole situtation very well I think.

I can't upload it because it is not in the public domain.

But I can share with a friend

Nick

> Testosterone injection options

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Does anyone know what the options are for testosterone

> > > > > injections? I

> > > > > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I would

> like

> > > to

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone

> > > option. The

> > > > > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the same

> form

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables are

> the

> > > > > same as

> > > > > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real

> question

> > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > what would be the closest injectable method to naturally

> > > > > produced

> > > > > > > testosterone?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > WH

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Markus

What was your dosage? I have been on 1cc of 200ml T for 6 weeks and

notice some improvement, but not what I had hoped for.

Rich

> > > > I am new to this group so please excuse me if I am

asking a

> > > question that has been addressed before. I was recently

> > diagnosed

> > > with " low/normal " total testosterone level and a " low " bio-

> > available

> > > level. My Urologist suggested we start off with

testosterone

> > > injections. I had my first one yesterday and my question

is

> how

> > > long before I should notice any changes or improvements in

my

> > > condition? I have been experiencing all of the typical...

[Guest guest]

Hi Nick,

Although, I don't think it is absolutely necessary to beat this

argument to death, I will again support the Testosterone is natural

theory... because it is!!

First of all, I will quote the article posted by tallen:

" Testosterone is a naturally occurring androgenic anabolic steroid

hormone. The drug may be obtained from animal testes but is usually

prepared synthetically from cholesterol. "

So basically, if you want to go about it by getting the testosterone

from animal testes, you can, and it is exactly the same chemical

that you get when you prepare it from cholesterol. It is something

that our bodies, and animal bodies, naturally produce, and we can

reproduce it using cholesterol. It isn't a man made invention, it is

a nature made invention, therefore it is natural.

As for your second point:

" Testosterone we use is modified to extend its half-life for some

kinds of therapy and altered to miss out the liver in others. "

This is true for only for esters of testosterone. Testosterone that

we get through gel, cream or pellet is just regular 100%

testosterone, same as our body produces. You are talking about

testosterone esters like Cypionate, ethonate and propionate. Here is

a description of esters:

" An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen

atoms. This chain is attached to the parent steroid hormone at the

17th carbon position. When administered intramuscularly, the

androgen ester is slowly absorbed into the circulation where it is

then rapidly metabolized to an active unesterified testosterone.

Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water

solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the

full dosage to reach general circulation. Slowing the release of the

parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free

testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain

active in the body for a very short period of time, in some cases

only a few hours. This would necessitate an unpleasant daily

injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation

of testosterone. By adding an ester, the user can inject as

infrequently as once per month, instead of having to constantly re-

administer the drug to achieve an optimum effect. "

It further states:

" Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a

chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen

receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In

order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore

first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has

filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes hydrolyze

the ester chain. When this occurs the steroid is able to have an

effect on skeletal muscle tissue. "

So basically, with esters, there has been a carbon and hydrogen

chain attached to the testosterone to prolong it's effect when

injected. As the ester chain disolves, the testosterone that is left

does it's job in the body. So the testosterone that is having the

positive effect, is still the same 100% identical testosterone that

mother nature produces and that we are able to make using

cholesterol.

Compared with 99% of drugs out there that drug companies produce,

like " zoloft " , " viagra " and just about anything else you can think

of... testosterone is a natural drug. It is made in our bodies, and

we are able to make it outside of our bodies and add it to our

bodies. It is not a man invented drug, rather a nature invented

drug.

So if you can agree on the points above, but you still don't agree

that it is natural by your personal definition: " If I could go an

pick a leaf, plant, or fruit, and eat it " , then at least we can

agree on the points above. On a last note, I met with a natureopath

not to long ago, and he was the first one to tell me that

testosterone therapy is a natural therapy... He should know what

he's talking about since it that's his business .

Regardless, thanks for your counter points and I learned all about

esters in the process of trying to address them. I personally think

testosterone is natural and is therefore a much better treatment

than adding something foreign to our bodies like anti depresants.

Well, have a great day, and best health.

Cheers,

Armyguy

P.S. Tallen thanks for the post on the article, very good article,

also Here is a link to the cached version of the study that I quoted

if anyone is interested in learning all about esters:

http://216.239.53.104/search?

q=cache:pmXeupDrW3IJ:www.ironmag.com/gw_test_esters.html+Esterificati

on+of+testosterone+cypionate & hl=en & ie=UTF-8

> > > > > > > I don't think there is an injectable that can in any

way be

> > > > termed

> > > > > > > natural. They are all anabolic steroids.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Soy and Yam extracts are used to produce Testosterone,

but

> > > > don't go

> > > > > > > rushing out to but all the Tofu and sweet potato you

can

> > find.

> > > > A

> > > > > > > chemical process is used to make this happen and that

is

> > what

> > > > > > creates

> > > > > > > the steroid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I believe the gels are the best option, but they are

> > > > not " natural "

> > > > > > > either. They just do a much better job of mimicking the

> > body's

> > > > own

> > > > > > > daily

> > > > > > cycle.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I hope this helps,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nick

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Testosterone injection

options

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Does anyone know what the options are for

testosterone

> > > > > > injections? I

> > > > > > > > know of testosterone ethanate, are there others? I

would

> > like

> > > > to

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > what option is closest to a 'natural' testosterone

> > > > option. The

> > > > > > > > Androgel I have been using appears to deliver the

same

> > form

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > body produces. I do not believe that the injectables

are

> > the

> > > > > > same as

> > > > > > > > naturally produced testosterone, so I guess the real

> > question

> > > > > > becomes

> > > > > > > > what would be the closest injectable method to

naturally

> > > > > > produced

> > > > > > > > testosterone?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > WH

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >