Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 > Was your initial dosage 5mg... Yes. I tried a trial of 5 mg/night before I started HCG. Unfortunately, it only increased my T from about 200 to about 340. I also tried 10 mg/day (5 at night and 5 in the morning), but that only increased T to about 410. > ...and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after you started HCG. Yes. That's what Dr. Shippen recommended. > Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? > Was your LH and FSH increased towards > the top of the normal range, even though > your T did not increase proportionately? Don't know. Shippen didn't order LH or FSH tests at that time. > Was this the reason you started HCG? Yes. > My LH and FSH are low and I'm > hoping that Selegiline may be > sufficient for me, if it increases > these significantly. Are you aware > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline > over many years? No. In fact there are many doctors in the anti-aging movement who advocate taking Selegiline to slow down aging. > I have read all your primer files and they are > very helpful. Thanks for posting them. > > Thanks for your help. You're very welcome. - > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > >>should > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > >>meds > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > were > to > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > like > HCG > > etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 , What prompted you to keep reducing your dosage of Selegiline as time went by. I know that you mention in one of the primer articles that you couldn't sleep at night and reduced your dosage. Was this the case everytime you reduced your dosage, or was it something else? Thanks, > > Was your initial dosage 5mg... > > Yes. I tried a trial of 5 mg/night before I started HCG. > Unfortunately, it only increased my T from about 200 to about 340. I > also tried 10 mg/day (5 at night and 5 in the morning), but that only > increased T to about 410. > > > ...and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after you started HCG. > > Yes. That's what Dr. Shippen recommended. > > > Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? > > Was your LH and FSH increased towards > > the top of the normal range, even though > > your T did not increase proportionately? > > Don't know. Shippen didn't order LH or FSH tests at that time. > > > Was this the reason you started HCG? > > Yes. > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm > > hoping that Selegiline may be > > sufficient for me, if it increases > > these significantly. Are you aware > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline > > over many years? > > No. In fact there are many doctors in the anti-aging movement who > advocate taking Selegiline to slow down aging. > > > I have read all your primer files and they are > > very helpful. Thanks for posting them. > > > > Thanks for your help. > > You're very welcome. > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > > >>should > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > > >>meds > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > > were > > to > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > > like > > HCG > > > etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > , > > What prompted you to keep reducing > your dosage of Selegiline as time > went by. I know that you mention in > one of the primer articles that you couldn't > sleep at night and reduced your dosage. Yes. That's it. However, it wasn't that I couldn't sleep. I was waking up every 2 or 3 hours, but I could still go back to sleep after 5 minutes or so. I knew something wasn't right so I tried cutting back on the Selegiline and it worked (i.e., I could sleep through the night). At my last visit with Dr. Shippen, he saw the decreases in my Selegiline dosage and said that it made sense because over time you need less Selegiline. > Was this the case everytime you reduced your dosage... Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 , Regarding the " Chorionic Gonadotrophin Stimulation Test " that doctor Shippen describes in your HCG Primer document where one is given 500 units 5 times per week for 3 weeks. Is this done to see whether your system will function without any further supplementation at all after the 3 weeks ie. without any more HCG or Selegiline or anything. If this is not the case, then do you know what Dr. Shippen's HCG regimen is for stimulating the system to see whether it will eventually function independently. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 > Regarding the " Chorionic Gonadotrophin > Stimulation Test " that doctor > Shippen describes in your HCG Primer > document where one is given 500 > units 5 times per week for 3 weeks. > Is this done to see whether your > system will function without any > further supplementation at all after > the 3 weeks ie. without any more > HCG or Selegiline or anything. Yes. See Shippen's HCG Protocol (at the end of my 2 of 8 primer) for Shippen's guidelines for interpreting the response to the HCG Stimulation Test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? Do you know if there is a difference between taking the liquid form or the tablets? I believe that Selegiline increases alertness, which is probably why it has caused you sleep problems in the past. Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen about taking it during the day instead of before bed. Thanks, > > Was your initial dosage 5mg... > > Yes. I tried a trial of 5 mg/night before I started HCG. > Unfortunately, it only increased my T from about 200 to about 340. I > also tried 10 mg/day (5 at night and 5 in the morning), but that only > increased T to about 410. > > > ...and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after you started HCG. > > Yes. That's what Dr. Shippen recommended. > > > Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? > > Was your LH and FSH increased towards > > the top of the normal range, even though > > your T did not increase proportionately? > > Don't know. Shippen didn't order LH or FSH tests at that time. > > > Was this the reason you started HCG? > > Yes. > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm > > hoping that Selegiline may be > > sufficient for me, if it increases > > these significantly. Are you aware > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline > > over many years? > > No. In fact there are many doctors in the anti-aging movement who > advocate taking Selegiline to slow down aging. > > > I have read all your primer files and they are > > very helpful. Thanks for posting them. > > > > Thanks for your help. > > You're very welcome. > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > > >>should > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > > >>meds > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > > were > > to > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > > like > > HCG > > > etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? No. Although I have tried dissolving it in my mouth. The problem with that was that it increased the potency and I didn't want to have to figure out the new/equivalent dosage, so I went back to swallowing it. > Do you know if there is a difference between taking > the liquid form or the tablets? I wouldn't think so, but I dunno. > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... That's what some people believe. I don't notice any difference, but see my next answer. > ...which is probably why it has caused > you sleep problems in the past. Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take too much, I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I need more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that sense it makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as groggy. > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should take as much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > Thanks, You're very welcome. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Z, Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this mean that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood over time and therefore less and less is required? Thanks, > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > No. Although I have tried dissolving it in my mouth. The problem with > that was that it increased the potency and I didn't want to have to > figure out the new/equivalent dosage, so I went back to swallowing it. > > > Do you know if there is a difference between taking > > the liquid form or the tablets? > > I wouldn't think so, but I dunno. > > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > That's what some people believe. I don't notice any difference, but see > my next answer. > > > ...which is probably why it has caused > > you sleep problems in the past. > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take too much, > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I need > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that sense it > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as groggy. > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should take as > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > Thanks, > > You're very welcome. > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 > Z, > > Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this mean > that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one > may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood > over time and therefore less and less is required? I dunno. Although the latter doesn't sound right to me because of the length of time involved (i.e., years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 >> >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this mean >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood >over time and therefore less and less is required? Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over time. " I am not up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. However, selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a treatment for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would otherwise break down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than less, is needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take it to prevent cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine production decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). Use of selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down into as many meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for some. Not sure that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had some sort of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another matter. >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like coffee (for me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it gives pure relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending on where your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I can easily see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. Or might work at one dose but not at another. Winter > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take too >much, > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I >need > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that sense it > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as groggy. > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should >take as > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > - > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Winter, Did you notice any other benefits when taking Selegiline. Any improvements in IGF-1, DHEA-s, increased libido etc... > > > > >> > >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this mean > >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one > >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood > >over time and therefore less and less is required? > > Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over time. " I am not > up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. However, > selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a treatment > for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would otherwise break > down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than less, is > needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take it to prevent > cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine production > decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). Use of > selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down into as many > meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for some. Not sure > that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had some sort > of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another matter. > > > >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like coffee (for > me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it gives pure > relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending on where > your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I can easily > see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. Or might > work at one dose but not at another. > > > Winter > > > > > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take too > >much, > > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I > >need > > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that sense it > > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as groggy. > > > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. > > > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should > >take as > > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 I still take it. Have for years, although I may miss some months here and there while re-ordering. I have not measured IGF or DHEA-S. For me it has a mild benefit to libido and I think it improves mood a little although you have to be careful because if you drink coffee or other caffeine drink with it you can get overamped. I take it because I am among the believers who think that it helps to ward off cognitive decline in addition to some hear and now benefits. I am hypogonal and take HCG and some T. Whether the selegiline helps with T or not I dont know but it certainly would not keep me from needing the HCG and the T. My guess is that in regard to libido that there some men who it would really help even if some have no results. This is because dopamine is an important part of the brain experiencing pleasure and this might be more of a factor for some men than others. It is sort of like testosterone. It does nothing for the libido in a lot of men despite its reputation for doing so. Nevertheless, it does in fact help many and if it is real for them then it is real. I think that arginine and acetyl-l-carnitine around bedtime can be libido lifters. Acetyl-l-carnitine is another thing that works on the brain and the mitochondria and all of that to maintain neurological health but it does seem to also have sexual effects to some degree in my view. Winter >From: invest99_2000 <no_reply > >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Z - Selegiline >Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:53:39 -0000 > > > >Winter, > >Did you notice any other benefits when taking Selegiline. Any >improvements in IGF-1, DHEA-s, increased libido etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this >mean > > >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one > > >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > > >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood > > >over time and therefore less and less is required? > > > > Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over time. " >I am not > > up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. However, > > selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a >treatment > > for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would >otherwise break > > down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than >less, is > > needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take it to >prevent > > cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine >production > > decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). Use >of > > selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > > > > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > > > There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down into >as many > > meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for some. >Not sure > > that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had >some sort > > of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another >matter. > > > > > > >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > > > At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like >coffee (for > > me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it gives >pure > > relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending on >where > > your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I can >easily > > see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. >Or might > > work at one dose but not at another. > > > > > > Winter > > > > > > > > > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take >too > > >much, > > > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I > > >need > > > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that >sense it > > > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as >groggy. > > > > > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. > > > > > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should > > >take as > > > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Winter, What time do you take your Selegiline and is it liquid or tablet? Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this > >mean > > > >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that one > > > >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > > > >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the blood > > > >over time and therefore less and less is required? > > > > > > Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over time. " > >I am not > > > up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. However, > > > selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a > >treatment > > > for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would > >otherwise break > > > down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than > >less, is > > > needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take it to > >prevent > > > cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine > >production > > > decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). Use > >of > > > selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > > > > > There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down into > >as many > > > meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for some. > >Not sure > > > that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had > >some sort > > > of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another > >matter. > > > > > > > > > >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > > > > > At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like > >coffee (for > > > me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it gives > >pure > > > relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending on > >where > > > your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I can > >easily > > > see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. > >Or might > > > work at one dose but not at another. > > > > > > > > > Winter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I take > >too > > > >much, > > > > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too little, I > > > >need > > > > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that > >sense it > > > > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as > >groggy. > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > > > > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years ago. > > > > > > > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I should > > > >take as > > > > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Before commenting on your question below, I have a little caveat: Since this is a hypogonadism group I assume men here are interested in T production or related when they ask about selegiline. The caveat is that I dont know anything about selegiline in regard to hypogonadism even though I have experience with both hypogonadism and deprenyl (selegiline). Dr. Shippen or Z would be the best sources of information along with searches online, I think. The answer to your question about when I take is deprenyl is that I take it whenever I get around to it during the day. I would probably take it in the morning except that I drink coffee and it wires me to take it along with coffee. On the other hand it works as a good lift in the afternoon or evening. (keeping in mind that a person using it for T production might not do this, I simply dont know). The half life of deprenyl in the body is less than 5 hours, maybe even a lot less so it clears your system in a short time. However, deprenyl works by inhibiting the MAOB enzyme which would otherwise breakdown dopamine. Even though deprenyl clears your system in hours, once it has inhibited the MAOB enzyme, it stays inhibited for days. In other words, it works long after the deprenyl has cleared your system. So, if the goal is to just keep the dopamine level up it is not critical to take it at any particular time of the day. It is only important to take a little a couple times per week. Usual dose might be one 5mg tab split in half and taken a couple times of week if you are 45 or under. If you are older it might look more like 2.5 per day. Natural dopamine declines about 13% per decade so older people take a little more. If untreated, when dopamine levels reach 30% of youthful levels, a person develops parkinsons or parkinson-like symptoms or death. Of course it does not just set in at once, there is a continuos decline as one ages which we can observe in the elderly every day. So that is the dosage and timing related to deprenyl for those who are taking it to preserve cognition and for the immediate benefits that come from increasing your dopamine level. If a man wanted to get real serious about dopamine lelvels, then he would also take tyrosine and phenylanine, which are two amino acids that the body uses to make dopamine. I havent done any reading on the topic but I would presume that these two amino acids might have libido benefits for that reason - maybe not major, but one more helpful factor. So for cognition, take your deprenyl when you can get it in. For hypogonadism, take it whenever Shippen says, at least as a starting point unless something else works better for you. Winter >From: invest99_2000 <no_reply > >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Z - Selegiline >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:21:46 -0000 > > > >Winter, > >What time do you take your Selegiline and is it liquid or tablet? > >Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this > > >mean > > > > >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that >one > > > > >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > > > > >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the >blood > > > > >over time and therefore less and less is required? > > > > > > > > Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over >time. " > > >I am not > > > > up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. >However, > > > > selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a > > >treatment > > > > for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would > > >otherwise break > > > > down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than > > >less, is > > > > needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take >it to > > >prevent > > > > cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine > > >production > > > > decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). >Use > > >of > > > > selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > > > > > > > There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down >into > > >as many > > > > meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for >some. > > >Not sure > > > > that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had > > >some sort > > > > of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another > > >matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > > > > > > > At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like > > >coffee (for > > > > me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it >gives > > >pure > > > > relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending >on > > >where > > > > your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I >can > > >easily > > > > see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. > > >Or might > > > > work at one dose but not at another. > > > > > > > > > > > > Winter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I >take > > >too > > > > >much, > > > > > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too >little, I > > > > >need > > > > > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that > > >sense it > > > > > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as > > >groggy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > > > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > > > > > > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years >ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I >should > > > > >take as > > > > > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Winter, Thanks for your input. It is much appreciated and helpful. As I mentioned in a previous post on the same thread, I have already read most of the info on this group regarding Selegiline. I have also got tremendously helpful and extensive information from Z. I have also read whatever I could find elsewhere. It is always good to hear from people who have actually had real world experience with something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >Since less and less Selegiline is required over time, does this > > > >mean > > > > > >that Selegiline actually corrects any Dopamine deficiency that > >one > > > > > >may have had and that one may not require using Selegiline > > > > > >eventually, or, does it mean that Selegiline builds up in the > >blood > > > > > >over time and therefore less and less is required? > > > > > > > > > > Depends on why you are taking it and what is meant by " over > >time. " > > > >I am not > > > > > up on its impact on T production so cannot comment there. > >However, > > > > > selegiline (trade names Jumex, Eldepryl etc) was introduced as a > > > >treatment > > > > > for Parkinsons disease. It breaks down the enzyme that would > > > >otherwise break > > > > > down dopamine, I think. For Parkinsons disease more, rather than > > > >less, is > > > > > needed over time, and the " smart drug " crowd members who take > >it to > > > >prevent > > > > > cognitive decline increase the dosage with age because dopamine > > > >production > > > > > decreases with age (or rather the breakdown of it increases). > >Use > > > >of > > > > > selegiline for T production might follow a different pattern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Have you ever taken Selegiline in liquid form? > > > > > > > > > > There has been some talk that the liquid does not break down > >into > > > >as many > > > > > meth-amphetamine like metabolites so that it is smoother for > >some. > > > >Not sure > > > > > that is true for all liquid brands but as I recall one brand had > > > >some sort > > > > > of superior qualities. Whether it is worth the price is another > > > >matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > I believe that Selegiline increases alertness... > > > > > > > > > > At 5mg I get a gentle boost in sociability. It is a little like > > > >coffee (for > > > > > me, I should say) in that sometimes you drink a coffee and it > >gives > > > >pure > > > > > relaxation and at other times it can increase anxiety depending > >on > > > >where > > > > > your physiology seems to be headed that day or whatever. So, I > >can > > > >easily > > > > > see where it might work at bedtime or might not work at bedtime. > > > >Or might > > > > > work at one dose but not at another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Winter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, at the right dosage it improves my sleep. If I > >take > > > >too > > > > > >much, > > > > > > > I wake up a few times during the night. If I take too > >little, I > > > > > >need > > > > > > > more sleep and my sleep is not as refreshing. So, in that > > > >sense it > > > > > > > makes me more alert because I wake up refreshed and not as > > > >groggy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever considered or spoken to Dr. Shippen > > > > > > > > about taking it during the day instead of before bed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He recommends taking it at night. At least he did 4 years > >ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think at one point he said if I had trouble sleeping, I > >should > > > > > >take as > > > > > > > much as I could at night and the rest in the morning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're very welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 I have been using Liquid Deprenyl/Selegiline for the past 2 evenings at 5mg sublingual before bed. I have noticed that it has made me anxious and also thereby reduced my libido. I am considering stopping it. Has anyone had any similar experience or any advice. Thanks, > , > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after you > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? Was your > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, even though > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the reason you > started HCG? > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are you aware > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. Thanks > for posting them. > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > >>should > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > >>meds > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > were > to > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > like > HCG > > etc. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Try reducing your dosage. Or taking half in the morning and half at bedtime. Also, if I read you correctly, you're saying that you're taking it before having sex and it's causing problems. If that's the case, then take it after sex. Re: Z - Selegiline > > > > I have been using Liquid Deprenyl/Selegiline for the past 2 evenings > at 5mg sublingual before bed. I have noticed that it has made me > anxious and also thereby reduced my libido. I am considering stopping > it. Has anyone had any similar experience or any advice. > > Thanks, > > > > > > , > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after > you > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? Was > your > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, even > though > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the reason you > > started HCG? > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are you > aware > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. Thanks > > for posting them. > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > > >>should > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > > >>meds > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > > were > > to > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > > like > > HCG > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 I am taking it before sleeping at night. I noticed that my libido is much less. I just am not interested. I also notice that I am anxious, sort of like being a little wired. > > > , > > > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg after > > you > > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? Was > > your > > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, even > > though > > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the reason you > > > started HCG? > > > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are you > > aware > > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. Thanks > > > for posting them. > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and E2) > > > >>should > > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all other > > > >>meds > > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if one > > > were > > > to > > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything else > > > like > > > HCG > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 You said you're taking 5 mg/night of liquid Selegiline. I don't know how this equates to the tablet or capsule forms, but I suspect it's like taking about 10 mg of one of those forms. Do you know how to compare these dosages? If I my guess is correct, then you should cut your dosage in half. That would be equivalent to taking 5 mg/night of in the tablet or capsule form. That's the dosage Shippen gave me before moving to HCG. Re: Z - Selegiline > > > > I am taking it before sleeping at night. I noticed that my libido is > much less. I just am not interested. I also notice that I am anxious, > sort of like being a little wired. > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg > after > > > you > > > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? Was > > > your > > > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, even > > > though > > > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the reason you > > > > started HCG? > > > > > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are you > > > aware > > > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. > Thanks > > > > for posting them. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and > E2) > > > > >>should > > > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all > other > > > > >>meds > > > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if > one > > > > were > > > > to > > > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything > else > > > > like > > > > HCG > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 I think I'm going to give it a break for a few days and try again later. Thanks for the advice. > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg > > after > > > > you > > > > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? Was > > > > your > > > > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, even > > > > though > > > > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the reason you > > > > > started HCG? > > > > > > > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > > > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are you > > > > aware > > > > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > > > > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. > > Thanks > > > > > for posting them. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T and > > E2) > > > > > >>should > > > > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and all > > other > > > > > >>meds > > > > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would be if > > one > > > > > were > > > > > to > > > > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using anything > > else > > > > > like > > > > > HCG > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 If you go again, it is may be worthwhile to remember that there are lots and lots of pharmaceuticals and even foods that are beneficial but simply cannot be started full force. Instead you have to ramp up. Split your tabs or lower your drops - lower the dose - spread it out over the day, and then see what works. I have been taking selegiline for about 8 years and I certainly would not - even today- take 10 mg in one shot at any time of the day. 5mg is my max which I take on some days when I my metabolism is sluggish and it picks me up a little. Otherwise, I regularly take about half that. So, dont assume that is not for you until you try a couple other approaches. Deprenyl is a little like coffee in the sense that sometimes you take it and it relaxes you and smoothes you out but if you are not careful and take it at the wrong time of the day it can backfire on you. The wrong time of the day could be when your metabolism is at its lowest and you are trying to sleep or it could be when your metabolism is totally cranked up and you dont need any more stimulation. It is a bit of an art based on experience. My thoughts anyway. Winter >From: invest99_2000 <no_reply > >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Z - Selegiline >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:09:50 -0000 > > > >I think I'm going to give it a break for a few days and try again >later. > >Thanks for the advice. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg > > > after > > > > > you > > > > > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? >Was > > > > > your > > > > > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, >even > > > > > though > > > > > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the >reason you > > > > > > started HCG? > > > > > > > > > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > > > > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are >you > > > > > aware > > > > > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. > > > Thanks > > > > > > for posting them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T >and > > > E2) > > > > > > >>should > > > > > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and >all > > > other > > > > > > >>meds > > > > > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would >be if > > > one > > > > > > were > > > > > > to > > > > > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using >anything > > > else > > > > > > like > > > > > > HCG > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Winter, Thanks for the advice. I am also going to review and make some adjustments to some other supplements I am taking which may have added to the effect of the Selegiline. Thanks, > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Was your initial dosage 5mg and did you reduce it to 2.5 mg > > > > after > > > > > > you > > > > > > > started HCG. Did it increase your LH and FSH significantly? > >Was > > > > > > your > > > > > > > LH and FSH increased towards the top of the normal range, > >even > > > > > > though > > > > > > > your T did not increase proportionately? Was this the > >reason you > > > > > > > started HCG? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My LH and FSH are low and I'm hoping that Selegiline may be > > > > > > > sufficient for me, if it increases these significantly. Are > >you > > > > > > aware > > > > > > > of any danger taking 5mg Selegiline over many years? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read all your primer files and they are very helpful. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > for posting them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>5 mg at bedtime for 3 or 4 weeks. Blood tests (T, Free T > >and > > > > E2) > > > > > > > >>should > > > > > > > be taken both before and after the 3- or 4-week trial and > >all > > > > other > > > > > > > >>meds > > > > > > > >>should remain constant throughout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know what the correct dosage of Selegiline would > >be if > > > > one > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > use it alone in order to increase LH, without using > >anything > > > > else > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > HCG > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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