Re: z & Group questions about your posted files

[Guest guest]

>>> You mentioned DIM being superior to arimidex due to aging men have

lesser liver function, which would be better for me due to liver

problems. I dont understand your statement; " That's why I think DIM

is a much superior estrogen management tool to Arimidex. In addition

to being a food supplement rather than a drug, it supports a

deficient system in our bodies to do what it was designed to do

rather than blocking a well functioning system from doing what it

was meant to do " <<<

DIM and Arimidex are both used to reduce Estradiol (E2) in men. But

they work in completely opposite ways. Arimidex is a prescription drug

that reduces conversion of T to E2 by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme.

DIM is a nonprescription supplement that helps the liver

digest/metabolize E2 into more benign/healthy estrogens.

Our bodies are " designed " to convert some T to E2 and to metabolize some

of that E2 in the liver to produce the benign/healthy estrogens.

Arimidex works against the natural flow of our bodies (i.e., by blocking

E2 production) while DIM assists our body's natural flow (i.e., by

helping a sluggish liver to digest/metabolize E2 into more

benign/healthy estrogens).

Also, for some unknown reason, Arimidex does not produce the kind of

improvements in lean body mass, fatigue levels, libido, etc that one

would expect from the E2 reductions it yeilds. If DIM works for you, it

will definitely yeild these improvements.

>>> Also. You mentioned that you prefer tablets to capsuls due to the

ease of breaking them into 1/4ths but you named a company that only

sells capsuls. Please tell me where you get your tablets<<<

I use Indolplex tablets by PhytoPharmica. One bottle of 60 tablets

lasts me about 6 months since my dosage is only about 2 tablets a week.

I recommend any product that's manufactured under the BioResponse

patent. The reason I stick with PhytoPharmica tablets is that I have my

exact dosge calibrated from years of measurement. If I change brands

now, I'll need to recalibrate or at least check the dosage calibration.

When I want to buy, I simply do a Google search on Indolplex and

PhytoPharmica and find the best price at the time.

>>> yes I did find many tablets of DIM on the internet but I dont

understand the

difference between DIm and indoplex concerning bioavailability as

you stated here " DIM is also not very bioavailable when taken

orally; however, Indolplex (a.k.a., Di-indolin) is a proprietary

formulation that increases DIM's oral bioavailability. " I dont want

to buy the wrong stuff, please clarify what this means , give me a

company name where I can trust that I am getting the right product

or how to tell, what questions to ask the vendor.<<<

Indolplex is the trademark name owned by BioResponse. BioResponse

licences their patent to many companies to produce Indolplex.

Therefore, any product with the name Indolplex should be OK. A quick

internet search on " indolplex " yeilded the following hits:

http://www.shop-phytopharmica.com/indolplex.php

http://www.shopping.com/xGS-Indolplex~NS-1~linkin_id-3058007

http://www.naturalgreens.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProdID=131

>>>I beleive my Endo will start me out on Hcg, I am going to request

1,200-1,500 IU divided as 500 IU 3x aweek or 400IU 3x a week. If

this is not a big enough jump to start an Hcg Stimulation test (and

I know everyone is different, please tell me) <<<

That should be fine.

Dr. Shippen recommends 500 IU 5x/week for 3 weeks. He told me that for

men under 50, two weeks was enough.

>>>How much Hcg was administered in your initial Hcg Stimulation test?

For how long? how long after was confirmation testing?<<<

I did 500 IU 5x a week for 2 weeks. My T results came back in about a

week.

>>> Please tell me how subcutomousy injections are administered, I know

under the skin, but how? Where?<<<

Sitting down. Needle straight down into the middle of the thigh.

>>> Thank you very much for your wonderful contribution to this group

and a newbie such as myself.<<<

You're very welcome. Good lluck!

-

[Guest guest]

>I beleive my Endo will start me out on Hcg, I am going to request

>1,200-1,500 IU divided as 500 IU 3x aweek or 400IU 3x a week. If

>this is not a big enough jump to start an Hcg Stimulation test (and

>I know everyone is different, please tell me)

>How much Hcg was administered in your initial Hcg Stimulation test?

>For how long? how long after was confirmation testing?

Administer 500 units a day for a three week period and then test again. This

will tell you whether you are a responsive to HCG. Then adjust as needed

based on your results. You might end out with something like 500 units a

day, 3 times per week but should be a little more aggressive during the

trial period.

Please tell me how subcutomousy injections are administered, I know

>under the skin, but how? Where? And do you mean like into stomach

>fat? I think under the skin, your going to get a bubble that will

>leak out.

In the front thigh is fine. It will form a little " bubble " that will be

absorbed into the body over the next few hours. Thats how it works. Get the

same syringes used for insulin. Your pharmacist can advise.

If you are having liver problems, I would suggest taking about 1200 mg of

NAC which is n-acetyl-cysteine. (it may come in units rather than mgs. if

so, I meant 1200 units). It is harmless and available at health food stores,

GNC, etc. Even though it is " natural " it is nevertheless effect against

liver toxicity. It is used in emergency rooms for tylenol overdose for

example.

Winter

[Guest guest]

> This is the DIM I tried.

> http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or nothing. The

point is we just don't know what they're doing.

I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure product.

Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try adding

other things to measure the difference these other things contribute.

-

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

good to see you posting again, you made a huge difference in my

life as well as Shippen, etc...anyways, I have been doing the HCG/DIM

thing for about 4 years with excellent results. However, my gyno has

progreessively gotten worse...I have been using Nature's Way DIM PLUS

all these years and I finally notice that that is NOT what you

use...I guess I should switch to indoplex...sounds like it could make

a difference...anyways take care and thanks

> > This is the DIM I tried.

> > http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

>

> I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

> ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or nothing.

The

> point is we just don't know what they're doing.

>

> I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure

product.

> Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try

adding

> other things to measure the difference these other things

contribute.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Is this DIM as good as the IndolPlex by Enzymatic therapy. They both

seem to have the same ingredients.

http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?

SKUNumber=021078015215 & searchby=PN & SearchText=dim

> > > This is the DIM I tried.

> > > http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

> >

> > I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

> > ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or

nothing.

> The

> > point is we just don't know what they're doing.

> >

> > I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure

> product.

> > Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try

> adding

> > other things to measure the difference these other things

> contribute.

> >

> > -

[Guest guest]

I think Dave uses this.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Phil

invest99_2000 <no_reply > wrote:

Is this DIM as good as the IndolPlex by Enzymatic therapy. They both

seem to have the same ingredients.

http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?

SKUNumber=021078015215 & searchby=PN & SearchText=dim

> > > This is the DIM I tried.

> > > http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

> >

> > I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

> > ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or

nothing.

> The

> > point is we just don't know what they're doing.

> >

> > I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure

> product.

> > Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try

> adding

> > other things to measure the difference these other things

> contribute.

> >

> > -

[Guest guest]

Hi Ownage, long time no talk. Glad to hear it's going well for you.

As you know, getting the Indolplex dosage right is very tricky,

especially with HCG. The reason is that with HCG, your T goes up after

each shot and goes down gradually until the next shot. If you look at

my primer article 7 of 8 - Adjusting DIM Dosage, you'll see my daily DIM

dosages and how they vary during the week. I'm not suggesting that you

or anyone else use these dosages, but, if you're on HCG (or T shots),

you might want to mimic my dosage pattern to suit your situation. As

always, your blood tests and clinical response should guide you in

setting your dosage.

Regards,

Re: z & Group questions about your posted

files

> Hey ,

> good to see you posting again, you made a huge difference in my

> life as well as Shippen, etc...anyways, I have been doing the HCG/DIM

> thing for about 4 years with excellent results. However, my gyno has

> progreessively gotten worse...I have been using Nature's Way DIM PLUS

> all these years and I finally notice that that is NOT what you

> use...I guess I should switch to indoplex...sounds like it could make

> a difference...anyways take care and thanks

>

>

>

> > > This is the DIM I tried.

> > > http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

> >

> > I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

> > ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or nothing.

> The

> > point is we just don't know what they're doing.

> >

> > I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure

> product.

> > Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try

> adding

> > other things to measure the difference these other things

> contribute.

> >

> > -

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that's that DIM " plus " product which I, personally ,would stay

away from. I don't like taking products with a bunch of additives that

have questionable effects.

Re: z & Group questions about your posted

files

> Is this DIM as good as the IndolPlex by Enzymatic therapy. They both

> seem to have the same ingredients.

>

> http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?

> SKUNumber=021078015215 & searchby=PN & SearchText=dim

>

>

>

> > > > This is the DIM I tried.

> > > > http://store./vitanet/dim120tabnat.html

> > >

> > > I'd recommend staying away from these " plus " products. The added

> > > ingredients may be doing something good, something bad or

> nothing.

> > The

> > > point is we just don't know what they're doing.

> > >

> > > I prefer to be scientific about it. That means using the pure

> > product.

> > > Once the effect of the pure product is assessed, then you can try

> > adding

> > > other things to measure the difference these other things

> > contribute.

> > >

> > > -

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I think Dave uses this.

> http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

> Phil

Yup. That's the one.