Re: Dr. Bledsoe/Jdlaus

[Guest guest]

,

I am also secondary. However I have never been fertile. I was

diagnosed when I was 13 and been on all of the better know and used

treatments. There are two main reasons to be on HCG versus T

replacement. One is to maintain or to gain fertility and the other is

for cosmetic reasons- no shrinkage! ly neither is an issue for

me since I was not blessed with either male attribute! My wife and I

have 2 children (boys) the oldest if from her pervious sperm donor of

a husband and our youngest is from donor sperm that we bought through

the assistance or her OB/GYN.

All that being said, Dr. Bledsoe is very up to date and receptive to

input and questions. In your appointment she will ask you a bunch of

questions about how you are feeling and how things are going with

your quality of life. She is very easy to talk to and for a doctor

has a good sense of humor. (Since you are here in Austin I must warn

you she is an Aggie! Maybe a good thing for you!) With her I have

been on HCG, T and now Androgel and she has never refused a specific

blood test that I have asked for. I used the HCG when we thought

there was a chance of being fertile on my own. It was a mutual

decision to be on the HCG and she never questioned it until I decided

that it was time to maybe go back to T treatments based on a less

than 5% chance of gaining fertility. On Androgel, my last T levels

exceeded 800ng/dl and although she expressed concern never asked me

to reduce my dosage. One expectation that I will set with you is that

she will not specifically try to boost your levels to the high end of

normal. I am at a high normal but she did not specifically try to get

me there. From my experience HCG is not that radical of a treatment.

I was on it almost 20 years ago for the first time under the

treatment of Dr. Stanley Feld in Dallas - Now Retired. If fertility

is an issue or if you have normal size tesitcles and want to maintain

that, there is no Endo that should refuse this as an option. They are

a quack if they say do! Dr. Bledsoe also specializes in infertility

so maybe that is another reason why she is one of the " Forward "

thinking doctors. I have been seeing her for almost 10 years and she

is a class act in my book.

If you have any questions email me at jamesluton@....

Regards,

-- In @y..., " sedrum2000 " <scott@c...> wrote:

> I had some questions relating to Dr. Bledsoe. I made an appt. based

> on your recommendation, but can't get in until end of aug. I saw

your

> on T replacement from a previous post so I'm assuming your primary

> otherwise would think the dr. would dry hcg replacement. Is this

the

> case?...I'm just trying to get a feel for this doctor and if she's

up

> to date on the best treatment. I was on androgel last year from my

GP

> and all it did was make me infertile and make my testicles shrink. ?

> The endo I just saw wanted to put me back on it based only on my

> total T level, so I'm very reluctant when it comes to choosing and

> Endo. After stopping the androgel, I became fertile again and now

my

> wife is pregnant. I know my T is low and my LH is also low which

> makes me think I'm secondary with some hypothalmic problem. Anyway

> any detailed info on the doctor would be greatly appreciated. If

> she's not the one for me I need to look elsewhere asap.

>

> Thanks,

> scott

[Guest guest]

,

One thing that I have heard that might refute that HcG is a good choice

for treatment, is that your body (over a long period of time) will build

a tolerance to HcG injections because they are synthetic. I am including

a copy of what was sent to me regarding this below. Therefore, they will

become less effective over time and may not work for you when you need

them most, when seeking fertility to have children. I myself am

secondary, and was given a prescription for HcG last week. I have yet to

take it because I only just learned about the potential tolerance

buildup. I do agree with you though, most people may gain fertility and

testes size, not to mention many people believe it has brought their

total T counts higher than they were on AndroGel.

My total T last month was 15, yes that's fifteen. That was with no

treatment. I am currently on 2x 5G AndroGel per day. I may be starting

1000 units of HcG 3x a week plus the 5G of AndroGel to get my levels up.

I am having another blood test this week to test the levels with the

AndroGel. I'll let you know how it goes.

This is the info I received back when I asked about HcG recently on

another mailing list. Maybe someone can confirm or deny this with a

doctor?

Human Chorionic Gonadatropin (hCG) binds to the LH/hCG receptor and

mimics the action of LH. Limiting this message to males, hCG raises the

levels of LH and is given to establish or restore fertility, whereas

testosterone suppresses LH, and reduces or eliminates the potential for

fertility. " Because men with hypogonadatropic hypogonadism may become

resistant to gonadotropins after long-term treatment [from antibodies],

.. . . the customary strategy is to treat such invidivuals initially with

testosterone esters. . . and to reserve gonadotropin therapy until

fertility is desired. Prior androgen therapy does not impair subsequent

gonadotropin induction of spermatogenesis in individuals with

hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. " Textbook of Endocrinology, 9th

Ed. (W.B. Saunders, Philadelphia:

1989) at pp.853, 857-858.

" In men with hypogonadotropic hypogandism the dose of hCG required to

maintain a normal plasma testosterone level varies from 1000 to 6000 IU

weekly. Most treatment regimens for the induction of spermatogenesis

involving starting doses of 2000 IU three times or more a week until

most of the clinical parameters, includingnormal male plamsa values,

indicate an optimal effect. " Id. at p. 858.

The administration of hCG is by IM injection, probably with a 23 gauge,

1 " needle given in the thigh (like the weekly testosterone enanthate

injection); it will be somewhat painful, especially because it is given

three times a week; and it is expensive. Unless a person seeks to become

fertile, testosterone would be the drug of choice because of its ease of

administration and much lower cost. Without the desire for fertility, I

also doubt there would be sufficient motivation to take hCG for more

than a short period of time; and even then, hCG is not practicable for

long-term testosterone therapy for the reasons stated above.

Thanks,

Connery

Email: <mailto:jonathan@...>

jonathan@...

Web: http://www.jonathanconnery.com

<http://www.jonathanconnery.com/>

" We must always strive to do the things we think we cannot do. " -Eleanor

Roosevelt

Re: Dr. Bledsoe/Jdlaus

,

I am also secondary. However I have never been fertile. I was

diagnosed when I was 13 and been on all of the better know and used

treatments. There are two main reasons to be on HCG versus T

replacement. One is to maintain or to gain fertility and the other is

for cosmetic reasons- no shrinkage! ly neither is an issue for

me since I was not blessed with either male attribute! My wife and I

have 2 children (boys) the oldest if from her pervious sperm donor of

a husband and our youngest is from donor sperm that we bought through

the assistance or her OB/GYN.

All that being said, Dr. Bledsoe is very up to date and receptive to

input and questions. In your appointment she will ask you a bunch of

questions about how you are feeling and how things are going with

your quality of life. She is very easy to talk to and for a doctor

has a good sense of humor. (Since you are here in Austin I must warn

you she is an Aggie! Maybe a good thing for you!) With her I have

been on HCG, T and now Androgel and she has never refused a specific

blood test that I have asked for. I used the HCG when we thought

there was a chance of being fertile on my own. It was a mutual

decision to be on the HCG and she never questioned it until I decided

that it was time to maybe go back to T treatments based on a less

than 5% chance of gaining fertility. On Androgel, my last T levels

exceeded 800ng/dl and although she expressed concern never asked me

to reduce my dosage. One expectation that I will set with you is that

she will not specifically try to boost your levels to the high end of

normal. I am at a high normal but she did not specifically try to get

me there. From my experience HCG is not that radical of a treatment.

I was on it almost 20 years ago for the first time under the

treatment of Dr. Stanley Feld in Dallas - Now Retired. If fertility

is an issue or if you have normal size tesitcles and want to maintain

that, there is no Endo that should refuse this as an option. They are

a quack if they say do! Dr. Bledsoe also specializes in infertility

so maybe that is another reason why she is one of the " Forward "

thinking doctors. I have been seeing her for almost 10 years and she

is a class act in my book.

If you have any questions email me at jamesluton@....

Regards,

-- In @y..., " sedrum2000 " <scott@c...> wrote:

> I had some questions relating to Dr. Bledsoe. I made an appt. based

> on your recommendation, but can't get in until end of aug. I saw

your

> on T replacement from a previous post so I'm assuming your primary

> otherwise would think the dr. would dry hcg replacement. Is this

the

> case?...I'm just trying to get a feel for this doctor and if she's

up

> to date on the best treatment. I was on androgel last year from my

GP

> and all it did was make me infertile and make my testicles shrink. ?

> The endo I just saw wanted to put me back on it based only on my

> total T level, so I'm very reluctant when it comes to choosing and

> Endo. After stopping the androgel, I became fertile again and now

my

> wife is pregnant. I know my T is low and my LH is also low which

> makes me think I'm secondary with some hypothalmic problem. Anyway

> any detailed info on the doctor would be greatly appreciated. If

> she's not the one for me I need to look elsewhere asap.

>

> Thanks,

> scott

[Guest guest]

Your infomation is incorrect and obsolete. HCG is not synthetic.

It's derived from the urine of pregnant women. (Did you know that

pregnacy tests are testing for the presence of HCG?)

I've been on HCG for well over 2 years now and my dosage has reduced

slightly over time. My dosage is 330 IU twice weekly at bedtime.

which puts my T consistantly at 700 to 800. My T before HCG was 200.

Scientific studies have shown that dosages of 5,000 IU per week or

more will desensitize the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and

3583230). So it's important not to overdose. Many doctors, such as

the one you quote, have prescribed large dosages and concluded that

HCG eventually stops working. What they haven't yet figured out is

that if you get the dosage right, it can work for far longer than

they have experienced in their clinics.

Besides, my only other option is standard TRT, so I'll use HCG as

long as it works, because it's far superior to standard TRT, IMO. As

for " saving it for fertility later " there's absolutely now scientific

evidence to support this contention. In fact, the opposite may be

the case, in that, standard TRT may actually lower your chances of

HCG working later due to the " use it or lose it " effect. Again,

there's no scientific information either way on this score that I'm

aware of.

-

[Guest guest]

" Your infomation is incorrect and obsolete. "

I agree, but I was waiting for you to say it! His book was 1989

information, which is way out of date. I don't think HCG stimulates LH

or FSH production either. The package insert for HCG says it mimicks

LH, and, to a lessor extent, FSH.

" As for " saving it for fertility later " there's absolutely now

scientific evidence to support this contention. In fact, the opposite

may be the case, in that, standard TRT may actually lower your chances

of HCG working later due to the " use it or lose it " effect. Again,

there's no scientific information either way on this score that I'm

aware of. "

I'm living proof that you can be on shots for 6 years and have

shrunken, walnut-sized testicles and still start producing your own T

again. The first three weeks on 3 X 1,000 units per week yielded a T

level 900 ng/dl higher than I had been from a weak T gel I was trying.

I've dropped to 3 X 700 and still think I'm too high. I'll be going

over my latest labs tomorrow and will report back to the group,

assuming I can get through the forest fires SW of Denver.

[Guest guest]

Correct dosage seems to be the key here. I have been on HCG twice

over the last 22 years. Both times for years at a time and both times

right up until the end my T levels were in high normal range. The

reason that I finally went to T therapy was that fertility became a

non-issue. My main advice is that you find the right doctor that will

listen to your goals for therapy. If either fertility or maintaining

testicle size is the issue I see no reason to not at least try HCG.

If fertility is achieved, another option is to freeze enough sperm to

take care of business and then go back to T. One thing that I have

also found is that any kind of Hormone Replacement Therapy will not

be the magic potion that will cure everything. Hypogonadism is a

cruel thing that messes with your mind and leaves scars that will

always be there as a reminder.

One last note....if your shrinkage stopped at walnut size...you were

lucky!

>

> " Your infomation is incorrect and obsolete. "

>

> I agree, but I was waiting for you to say it! His book was 1989

> information, which is way out of date. I don't think HCG stimulates

LH

> or FSH production either. The package insert for HCG says it

mimicks

> LH, and, to a lessor extent, FSH.

>

> " As for " saving it for fertility later " there's absolutely now

> scientific evidence to support this contention. In fact, the

opposite

> may be the case, in that, standard TRT may actually lower your

chances

> of HCG working later due to the " use it or lose it " effect. Again,

> there's no scientific information either way on this score that I'm

> aware of. "

>

> I'm living proof that you can be on shots for 6 years and have

> shrunken, walnut-sized testicles and still start producing your own

T

> again. The first three weeks on 3 X 1,000 units per week yielded a

T

> level 900 ng/dl higher than I had been from a weak T gel I was

trying.

> I've dropped to 3 X 700 and still think I'm too high. I'll be going

> over my latest labs tomorrow and will report back to the group,

> assuming I can get through the forest fires SW of Denver.

[Guest guest]

So what's the deal with intramuscular injections vs

subcutanous(definition please). I may be starting on HCG soon and would

like to know how to approch my doc about this and have the process as

painless as possible.

thanks,

scott

davidzolt wrote:

> Your infomation is incorrect and obsolete. HCG is not synthetic.

> It's derived from the urine of pregnant women. (Did you know that

> pregnacy tests are testing for the presence of HCG?)

>

> I've been on HCG for well over 2 years now and my dosage has reduced

> slightly over time. My dosage is 330 IU twice weekly at bedtime.

> which puts my T consistantly at 700 to 800. My T before HCG was 200.

>

> Scientific studies have shown that dosages of 5,000 IU per week or

> more will desensitize the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and

> 3583230). So it's important not to overdose. Many doctors, such as

> the one you quote, have prescribed large dosages and concluded that

> HCG eventually stops working. What they haven't yet figured out is

> that if you get the dosage right, it can work for far longer than

> they have experienced in their clinics.

>

> Besides, my only other option is standard TRT, so I'll use HCG as

> long as it works, because it's far superior to standard TRT, IMO. As

> for " saving it for fertility later " there's absolutely now scientific

> evidence to support this contention. In fact, the opposite may be

> the case, in that, standard TRT may actually lower your chances of

> HCG working later due to the " use it or lose it " effect. Again,

> there's no scientific information either way on this score that I'm

> aware of.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So how much is too much. Is it totally based on your total T levels?.

I've read that too much HCG can be just as bad as T replacement as far

as kill your testicles. How do you titrate the dosage to get the most

benefit vs problems.

scott

ybeslow180 wrote:

>

> " Your infomation is incorrect and obsolete. "

>

> I agree, but I was waiting for you to say it! His book was 1989

> information, which is way out of date. I don't think HCG stimulates LH

>

> or FSH production either. The package insert for HCG says it mimicks

> LH, and, to a lessor extent, FSH.

>

> " As for " saving it for fertility later " there's absolutely now

> scientific evidence to support this contention. In fact, the opposite

>

> may be the case, in that, standard TRT may actually lower your chances

>

> of HCG working later due to the " use it or lose it " effect. Again,

> there's no scientific information either way on this score that I'm

> aware of. "

>

> I'm living proof that you can be on shots for 6 years and have

> shrunken, walnut-sized testicles and still start producing your own T

> again. The first three weeks on 3 X 1,000 units per week yielded a T

> level 900 ng/dl higher than I had been from a weak T gel I was trying.

>

> I've dropped to 3 X 700 and still think I'm too high. I'll be going

> over my latest labs tomorrow and will report back to the group,

> assuming I can get through the forest fires SW of Denver.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" So how much is too much. Is it totally based on your total T

levels?. I've read that too much HCG can be just as bad as T

replacement as far as kill your testicles. How do you titrate the

dosage to get the most benefit vs problems. "

By getting frequent (monthly or so) blood tests of total T, free T,

and estradiol, and adjusting the amount of HCG accordingly. I made a

mistake on my calendar and my next appointment is June 19th, not

today, the 12th. But the blood was drawn last week. I also see an

endocrinologisat twice a year and he does more extensive tests (ie,

liver function, hematocrit, etc). Blood was drawn for both doctors on

the same day and will be analyzed by two different labs for comparison

of total T and estradiol. I know, this is overkill, but once the

hormone tests are stable and within range, I'll just get the endo

tests.

[Guest guest]

>

> " So how much is too much. Is it totally based on your total T

> levels?. I've read that too much HCG can be just as bad as T

> replacement as far as kill your testicles. How do you titrate the

> dosage to get the most benefit vs problems. "

>

>

> By getting frequent (monthly or so) blood tests of total T, free T,

> and estradiol, and adjusting the amount of HCG accordingly. I made

a

> mistake on my calendar and my next appointment is June 19th, not

> today, the 12th. But the blood was drawn last week. I also see an

> endocrinologisat twice a year and he does more extensive tests

(ie,

> liver function, hematocrit, etc). Blood was drawn for both doctors

on

> the same day and will be analyzed by two different labs for

comparison

> of total T and estradiol. I know, this is overkill, but once the

> hormone tests are stable and within range, I'll just get the endo

> tests.

What benefits have you seen since starting your therapy and how long

did it take for you to notice an improvement?

thanks,

scott

[Guest guest]

" What benefits have you seen since starting your therapy and how long

did it take for you to notice an improvement? "

I don't know if you mean since I started T replacement 6-1/2 years

ago, or just since HCG.

As for the beginning, I noticed skin oiliness immediately, followed by

some nocturnal erections after a few weeks, much more energy and

better sleep after a few months, more body hair and muscularity after

maybe 6 months, as well as less depression by then. I didn't have a

sex partner then so I don't know when my sexual improvement really

arrived, but by about 16 months after starting I could have

intercourse without going soft.

With 2 months of HCG, I've noticed a more consistently positive mental

mood, more energy, more horniness, and more strength and endurance

than even on T shots. I attribute this to producing T naturally.

I was at a T level of 1100 ng/dl and a lower estradiol level than

any other time on replacement. With shots there was always somewhat of

a roller-coaster effect, and AndroGel always made my estradiol too

high. The higher estradiol counteracted the anti-ED benefit, ie, I

felt more tired, lost erections more easily, had less energy.