Guest guest Posted December 2, 2001 Report Share Posted December 2, 2001 Hi Ginger,Ann,Bert,Debby and all, I would like to thank all of you for your support to my recent post about dealing with the exhaustion and my granddaughters. You are a wonderful group of people. Joanna in WA AIH 8/01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Hello all. I wrote a while back about my lab results and wanted to get your advice on my recent endo visit. I am 27 years old. My endo said that the Total T was in the low- normal range. But I said that based on the Total T Charts, my T levels should be in the mid 600s for my age. Some lab results from 11/22/04 (I had been off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken 9am) Total T 312 (241-827) Free T 18.0 (9.3-26.5) FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1) LH 3.1 (1.5-9.3) Prolactin 4 (2-17) Lab Results from 12/20/04 (Also off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken at 12noon) Total T 410 (241-827) FSH 2.0 (1.4-18.1) LH 3.5 (1.5-9.3) These results lead me to think I am secondary (low LH and FSH) but my endo says it could be either and that she thinks my levels are OK and wants to me to stay off the Androgel for 3 months and basically start over. It is frustrating to have to wait a while but any insight would be helpful. Still low energy and low libido. I tried to see if could try Clomid or HCG and she said just to wait. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Hi big, Overall I'd say your endo is pretty good. That's based on getting a decent range of tests (although E2 is missing, insist on adding that to the next round) and considering age range more than lab range. But 3 months... Seems way too long. Why is she taking you off TRT- for a good panel of " baseline " tests? If so the tests reflect competence, but the time is questionable. I heard someone here say 6 weeks was plenty of time, but I don't know any hard science on that. Are your symptoms endurable when off TRT? If not, keep bugging her. But it may be that she has some specific and sound reason for waiting three months. One that we don't know about. OTOH, I wish any one of my first 3 TRT docs had done a full baseline test. And had known why, and what to do after that. Three months with no TRT would have been unpleasant, but it might have saved me several years of piss-poor TRT that was almost as bad as none. Bruce > > Hello all. I wrote a while back about my lab results and wanted to > get your advice on my recent endo visit. > > I am 27 years old. My endo said that the Total T was in the low- > normal range. But I said that based on the Total T Charts, my T > levels should be in the mid 600s for my age. > > Some lab results from 11/22/04 > (I had been off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken 9am) > Total T 312 (241-827) > Free T 18.0 (9.3-26.5) > FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.1 (1.5-9.3) > Prolactin 4 (2-17) > > Lab Results from 12/20/04 > (Also off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken at 12noon) > Total T 410 (241-827) > FSH 2.0 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.5 (1.5-9.3) > > These results lead me to think I am secondary (low LH and FSH) but > my endo says it could be either and that she thinks my levels are OK > and wants to me to stay off the > Androgel for 3 months and basically start over. It is frustrating > to have to wait a while but any insight would be helpful. Still low > energy and low libido. > > I tried to see if could try Clomid or HCG and she said just to wait. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Regarding TRT, your endocrinologist seems more competent than your average endocrinologist. And a baseline is good. Nevertheless, she is wasting your time. The wait in the waiting room is nothing compared to this... It appears very likely that you are not primary. That opens up the possibility of getting treatment with a SERM (Clomid, Nolvadex) or even an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) for TRT. But, those treatments often don't give improvement anyway. You should also get your estradiol checked if you are able. Elevated estradiol (E2) can cause your symptoms. But, the doctor needs to specify 'sensitive' on the estradiol test so that the lab doesn't just do the quick fertility test (for women). Of course, trying a couple of other physicians might just be wasted time as well. Or you might get lucky. Physicians do tend to be more comfortable prescribing TRT if you are already on it... > > Hello all. I wrote a while back about my lab results and wanted to > get your advice on my recent endo visit. > > I am 27 years old. My endo said that the Total T was in the low- > normal range. But I said that based on the Total T Charts, my T > levels should be in the mid 600s for my age. > > Some lab results from 11/22/04 > (I had been off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken 9am) > Total T 312 (241-827) > Free T 18.0 (9.3-26.5) > FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.1 (1.5-9.3) > Prolactin 4 (2-17) > > Lab Results from 12/20/04 > (Also off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken at 12noon) > Total T 410 (241-827) > FSH 2.0 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.5 (1.5-9.3) > > These results lead me to think I am secondary (low LH and FSH) but > my endo says it could be either and that she thinks my levels are OK > and wants to me to stay off the > Androgel for 3 months and basically start over. It is frustrating > to have to wait a while but any insight would be helpful. Still low > energy and low libido. > > I tried to see if could try Clomid or HCG and she said just to wait. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hi I have been to so many Endro's and everyone of them took me off my T meds. Any where from 2 weeks to 3 months. They found out nothing except how sick they made me. I am one of those guys that suffer bad when my levels go down. I could not work my symptoms were like CFS. The last Endro I seen was going to stop my T meds for 90 days to retest me after my being off the med. for 3 weeks. This was 15 yrs. ago. I asked the Dr. if he treats a lot of men for Low T and he said I was his first. But it is not any different then treating someone for Thyroid Problems so I asked him if this is what you do to new patients for Thyroid problems take them off there meds. to retest them and he said most times. I left and never went back. After being on TRT your LH and FSH is shut down and your stopping your meds. is not going to tell the Dr. anything. If you think you need to be tested to see why you have low T to see if you are primary or secondary you should have stayed on the AndroGel and had a Hcg Stimulation Test done. But after a blood test then do the Hcg test and then a blood test and if your T levels shoot way up you are Secondary. Read post number 4549 from Z on Dr Shippen's protocol on Hcg. Phil > > Hello all. I wrote a while back about my lab results and wanted to > get your advice on my recent endo visit. > > I am 27 years old. My endo said that the Total T was in the low- > normal range. But I said that based on the Total T Charts, my T > levels should be in the mid 600s for my age. > > Some lab results from 11/22/04 > (I had been off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken 9am) > Total T 312 (241-827) > Free T 18.0 (9.3-26.5) > FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.1 (1.5-9.3) > Prolactin 4 (2-17) > > Lab Results from 12/20/04 > (Also off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken at 12noon) > Total T 410 (241-827) > FSH 2.0 (1.4-18.1) > LH 3.5 (1.5-9.3) > > These results lead me to think I am secondary (low LH and FSH) but > my endo says it could be either and that she thinks my levels are OK > and wants to me to stay off the > Androgel for 3 months and basically start over. It is frustrating > to have to wait a while but any insight would be helpful. Still low > energy and low libido. > > I tried to see if could try Clomid or HCG and she said just to wait. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I did do a E2 evaluation and it came back 9 (range 0-53) so it is low. Like you say I think 3 months is too long and even though I tried t get a HCG/Clomid test, she just wanted to start over. Do you think that being off the Androgel for 2 weeks that that would push my E2 level down? I also think that my LH/FSH levels were low since I was off the Androgel as well. Thanks to everyone for their help. > > > > Hello all. I wrote a while back about my lab results and wanted to > > get your advice on my recent endo visit. > > > > I am 27 years old. My endo said that the Total T was in the low- > > normal range. But I said that based on the Total T Charts, my T > > levels should be in the mid 600s for my age. > > > > Some lab results from 11/22/04 > > (I had been off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken 9am) > > Total T 312 (241-827) > > Free T 18.0 (9.3-26.5) > > FSH 1.8 (1.4-18.1) > > LH 3.1 (1.5-9.3) > > Prolactin 4 (2-17) > > > > Lab Results from 12/20/04 > > (Also off 10g Androgel for about 2 weeks, taken at 12noon) > > Total T 410 (241-827) > > FSH 2.0 (1.4-18.1) > > LH 3.5 (1.5-9.3) > > > > These results lead me to think I am secondary (low LH and FSH) but > > my endo says it could be either and that she thinks my levels are OK > > and wants to me to stay off the > > Androgel for 3 months and basically start over. It is frustrating > > to have to wait a while but any insight would be helpful. Still low > > energy and low libido. > > > > I tried to see if could try Clomid or HCG and she said just to wait. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hi, Glad to hear she checked E2. Other than the darned 3 months off TRT, she sounds great. E2: 9 (0-53) seems way, way low. I wouldn't expect to see it that low unless you were on an aromatase inhibitor. You're not, are you? E2 that low is known to cause problems in some men, similar to E2 being too high. I went through a spell with E2 driven too low, and my pecker had so little sensation it felt like the nerves were disconnected. I haven't heard that discontinuing AG for 2 weeks could drive down E2 that far. I would doubt that's the cause, but I haven't heard it won't, either. I think I misunderstand something. When you say " I wanted to get an HCG/Clomid test, she just wanted to start over " , are you saying your endo isn't planning an hCG or similar stimulation test at the end of the 3 months? I haven't been able to find any specific time it would take for hormone levels to stabilize after stopping TRT. Maybe there isn't one, like there's no one protocol for doing hCG tests. Maybe she knows something we don't. Can you ask her why she chose 3 months? If there is a good reason it's something this group ought to know. Best, Bruce > > I did do a E2 evaluation and it came back 9 (range 0-53) so it is > low. Like you say I think 3 months is too long and even though I > tried t get a HCG/Clomid test, she just wanted to start over. Do > you think that being off the Androgel for 2 weeks that that would > push my E2 level down? I also think that my LH/FSH levels were low > since I was off the Androgel as well. --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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