Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

January 6, 2004

Hi ,

Those numbers are obviously extremely promissing. High T and LH from

only 10 days. You say you have no symptom improvements even though

the numbers are high? PLEASE, keep group updated with subjective

treatment from Clomid alone. I was not aware that it could make such

a big difference in production in such a short time.

I would love to try it, but it is very expensive and not on a drug

plan myself. Think I might give it a try for a month or something if

feedback from you and others is positive.

Armguy

> > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference I was

taking

> >another

> > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the hairloss but

it

> >also made

> > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look like

secondary HH.

> > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no significant

> > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts and

links in our

> > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a knowledgable MD

(I

> >still can

> > > not).

> > > Good luck

> > >

> >

> >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or else

> >exogenous t...

> >

> >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> >

> >Brad

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

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January 6, 2004

Armyguy,

according to my MD - I am unique. Any increase in T (be it by hCG, Clomid or

TRT) makes me feel completely sick way worse than with low T. So my

subjective well being is probably different.

Besides, I think my balls are in a very good shape, because even miniscule

doses of hCG like

500 IU 2x week significally increased my T. It is my piyuitary, which is

failing.

Clomid, IMO, is tehe easiest and cheapest way, but as far as I know it can

not be a long term

solution due to liver overload and desentecising pituitary.

>From: armyguy4001 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:35:30 -0000

>

>Hi ,

>

>Those numbers are obviously extremely promissing. High T and LH from

>only 10 days. You say you have no symptom improvements even though

>the numbers are high? PLEASE, keep group updated with subjective

>treatment from Clomid alone. I was not aware that it could make such

>a big difference in production in such a short time.

>

>I would love to try it, but it is very expensive and not on a drug

>plan myself. Think I might give it a try for a month or something if

>feedback from you and others is positive.

>

>Armguy

>

> > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference I was

>taking

> > >another

> > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the hairloss but

>it

> > >also made

> > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look like

>secondary HH.

> > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no significant

> > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts and

>links in our

> > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a knowledgable MD

>(I

> > >still can

> > > > not).

> > > > Good luck

> > > >

> > >

> > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or else

> > >exogenous t...

> > >

> > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > >

> > >Brad

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize

>

_________________________________________________________________

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January 6, 2004

As far as I know, and from the studies I have read, Clomid is

absolutely not a problem for the liver, unless you possibly already

have something wrong with it I guess, but then just about anything

would be bad for the liver.

You say Clomid is the cheapest solution? From the prices I have been

quoted it is fairly expensive. When I first looked into it, I was

thinking 100mg a day, but now that seems it might be a little

excessive, and 50 mg a day might do the trick. That is still over

$180 CD a month, that's about $135 USD. Quite a bit considering I

may need arimidex on top of it, and possibly other stuff.

T Cyp is dirt cheap, about $35 CD for 5 weeks worth, and HCG is only

$55 for 2 months worth...

Do you have a cheap source on Clomid or something, seems pretty

expensive to me...

Armyguy

> > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference I

was

> >taking

> > > >another

> > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the hairloss

but

> >it

> > > >also made

> > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look like

> >secondary HH.

> > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

significant

> > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts and

> >links in our

> > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

knowledgable MD

> >(I

> > > >still can

> > > > > not).

> > > > > Good luck

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or else

> > > >exogenous t...

> > > >

> > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > >

> > > >Brad

> > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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January 7, 2004

When I had an insurance, it covered Clomid and I paid $5 for 30 tabs.

Now I have no insurance, but I checked online prices and found some like $23

for 30 tabs.

You can find it on almost every bodybuilding site.

About long term studies on Clomid, I could not find any going longer than

few months,

but I think we have a guy here in the group who's been using it in very

small doses for more than a year (still short term though). Every MD I

asked, said it can be used only short term.

>From: armyguy4001 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 06:18:23 -0000

>

>As far as I know, and from the studies I have read, Clomid is

>absolutely not a problem for the liver, unless you possibly already

>have something wrong with it I guess, but then just about anything

>would be bad for the liver.

>

>You say Clomid is the cheapest solution? From the prices I have been

>quoted it is fairly expensive. When I first looked into it, I was

>thinking 100mg a day, but now that seems it might be a little

>excessive, and 50 mg a day might do the trick. That is still over

>$180 CD a month, that's about $135 USD. Quite a bit considering I

>may need arimidex on top of it, and possibly other stuff.

>

>T Cyp is dirt cheap, about $35 CD for 5 weeks worth, and HCG is only

>$55 for 2 months worth...

>

>Do you have a cheap source on Clomid or something, seems pretty

>expensive to me...

>

>Armyguy

>

> > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference I

>was

> > >taking

> > > > >another

> > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the hairloss

>but

> > >it

> > > > >also made

> > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look like

> > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

>significant

> > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts and

> > >links in our

> > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

>knowledgable MD

> > >(I

> > > > >still can

> > > > > > not).

> > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or else

> > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > >

> > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > >

> > > > >Brad

> > > > >

> > > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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_________________________________________________________________

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January 7, 2004

I used Clomid for over 6 months with decent results. It is harsh on

the liver according to the information sheet included with the drug

fromt he manufacturer. That is an issue for me but I was alble to

control it with a liver cleanser called Liv52, some additional Milk

Thistle, and r-ALA. When taking those, my liver values were right

back to normal. But even with that, I choose to go with a

compounded gel and am very glad I did. I feel so very much better.

And I really thought clomid was great for me, kept my T in the upper

600's and my LH in the stratosphere - 39. But the TRT is better.

My European source for Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) is $9 per 25 50mg

tablets - manufactured by Anfarm Hellas SA.

y

> > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference

I

> >was

> > > >taking

> > > > > >another

> > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

hairloss

> >but

> > > >it

> > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

like

> > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> >significant

> > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts

and

> > > >links in our

> > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> >knowledgable MD

> > > >(I

> > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or

else

> > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Brad

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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Internet

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January 7, 2004

y, do you think you could point me to your european source for

Clomid? I have been looking around for months without much luck in

finding it cheap. IF you could that would be really appreciated.

Thanks, you can email me if you want.

> > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

difference

> I

> > >was

> > > > >taking

> > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> hairloss

> > >but

> > > > >it

> > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> like

> > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > >significant

> > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

posts

> and

> > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > >knowledgable MD

> > > > >(I

> > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

or

> else

> > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-

up

> Internet

> > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 7, 2004

y, why do you feel that TRT was better?

I am very curious/interested in everyone's responses to different

therapies. there seems to be a lot of differences in peoples

responses to different types of therapies, even when it gets people

to the same T levels.

> > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

difference

> I

> > >was

> > > > >taking

> > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> hairloss

> > >but

> > > > >it

> > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> like

> > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > >significant

> > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

posts

> and

> > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > >knowledgable MD

> > > > >(I

> > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

or

> else

> > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up

> Internet

> > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 7, 2004

y,

seems to me if your LH was sky high at 39 but T only 700, your testicles are

probably failing.

About liver cleansing stuff, are these non-prescription things you buy at a

health food store?

Also, I think I already asked you, but again, when you say liver values, are

you refering to AST and ALT?

Thanks

>From: scotty082865 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:24:11 -0000

>

>I used Clomid for over 6 months with decent results. It is harsh on

>the liver according to the information sheet included with the drug

>fromt he manufacturer. That is an issue for me but I was alble to

>control it with a liver cleanser called Liv52, some additional Milk

>Thistle, and r-ALA. When taking those, my liver values were right

>back to normal. But even with that, I choose to go with a

>compounded gel and am very glad I did. I feel so very much better.

>And I really thought clomid was great for me, kept my T in the upper

>600's and my LH in the stratosphere - 39. But the TRT is better.

>

>My European source for Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) is $9 per 25 50mg

>tablets - manufactured by Anfarm Hellas SA.

>

>y

>

> > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference

>I

> > >was

> > > > >taking

> > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

>hairloss

> > >but

> > > > >it

> > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

>like

> > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > >significant

> > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts

>and

> > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > >knowledgable MD

> > > > >(I

> > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or

>else

> > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

>download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > >

> > > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

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> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

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>Internet

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>

_________________________________________________________________

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January 8, 2004

I actually thought Clomid was the answer. I felt great. My ED was

still there but getting better with Proviron. But now that I have

tried the compounded T, I realize how great I can really feel.

Clomid could only get my T up in the upper 600's, and from where I

came from (128) I thought perhaps that was the best it could be, that

maybe my natural levels were right in there. But now, I wonder if my

natural, 20 year old level, isn't higher. I have not tested yet

whiel on TRT but feel just amazing. Tons of wood, very sharp

mentally, on top of my game.

Something I had not mentioned, and it was you or another who brought

this up, but all of this also followed my own vasectomy. About the

same time I was treated agressively with cortizone shots as well so,

it's possible I have secondard from the cortizoine, and some level of

testecular declise (primary) from complications due to the vasectomy.

But with the way I feel now, I don't really care about the cause

anymore. I've been down that road, ruled alll kinds of scarry shit

out, and am now just glad to have found a progressive doctor who

understands our issues.

Best of luck,

y

> > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> difference

> > I

> > > >was

> > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> > hairloss

> > > >but

> > > > > >it

> > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> > like

> > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

> posts

> > and

> > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

> or

> > else

> > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

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> > >

_________________________________________________________________

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January 8, 2004

Yes.

See my last reply to Talen. Seems likely I have a little secondary

and primary. When I was sitting at 128 ng/dl, my LH would be around

1. Pushed into sending the signals by Clomid, my testicals only

produced 700 or so.

Secondary from the heavy cortizoine shots by my orthopedic surgeon

(knees - sports) and primary " possibly " from my vasectomy. Both

events occured at the same time. Who knows.

On the Liver stuff, yes - ALT and AST. On the suppliements, Liv52,

Milk Thistle, and r-ALA are all natural supplinments. Any health

food store should have them. r-ALA is an antioxidant. Also helps in

the metabolism of sugars. Liv52 is by Hymalaya

(http://www.liv52.com/). The Milk Thistle I use is made by Rexall

and carried by WalMart (1000mg concentrate gelcaps).

y

> > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

difference

> >I

> > > >was

> > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> >hairloss

> > > >but

> > > > > >it

> > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> >like

> > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

posts

> >and

> > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

or

> >else

> > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> >download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

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_________________________________________________________________

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> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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January 8, 2004

Hi y,

How long have you been on the compounded for? I wish you the best

and I hope you keep feeling great, but note that in the begining,

the effects of the gel often have their best symptomatic effects.

That's because it is adding to the testosterone already being

produced. But after about a month, you are just on the gel alone and

for allot of people, the benefits lessen. Also, the dose might need

to be significantly upped. But it isn't like that for everybody, so

please keep us updated over the coming weeks/months and let us know

what's working for you.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> > difference

> > > I

> > > > >was

> > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> > > hairloss

> > > > >but

> > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results

look

> > > like

> > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with

no

> > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

> > posts

> > > and

> > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to

hcg

> > or

> > > else

> > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for

dial-

> up

> > > Internet

> > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 8, 2004

Armyguy,

I'm with you. I am in my 3rd week and have had the dosage increased

from 1/2 gram to 3/4 gram already. I fully imagine that 1 gram or

more per day might be required in the end once my body's own

production is at near zero. But now that I've gone here, if the gel

does not work I'll try Testim, AG, and most certainly self injection

of T every week.

I just know that, by the way I feel, this is the correct path for me.

Thanks.

y

> > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> > > difference

> > > > I

> > > > > >was

> > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop

the

> > > > hairloss

> > > > > >but

> > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results

> look

> > > > like

> > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it

with

> no

> > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read

thru

> > > posts

> > > > and

> > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to

> hcg

> > > or

> > > > else

> > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for

> dial-

> > up

> > > > Internet

> > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 8, 2004

I hope so y,

Personally, I think that there is NO WAY that 1/2 gram to 1 gram of

some 'home made' gel is going to totally replace the function of our

testicles, LH, FSH and that whole system. It is a pretty hardcore

system and I don't think that they transfer the math to compounded

gel properly at all. I really don't think that all of that

testosterone is going to get into your system from just that little

amount. BUT, I definitely could be wrong, some people do have great

success with compounded alone, or so I have heard (people that know

people...). But upping it to 3-5 G a day might be necessary. Give it

a fair shot though and keep us posted .

Armyguy

> > > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> > > > difference

> > > > > I

> > > > > > >was

> > > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop

> the

> > > > > hairloss

> > > > > > >but

> > > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your

results

> > look

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it

> with

> > no

> > > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read

> thru

> > > > posts

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find

a

> > > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on

to

> > hcg

> > > > or

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7

days.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how

here!

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage

now!

> > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer

for

> > dial-

> > > up

> > > > > Internet

> > > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 8, 2004

Will do for sure. It will be interesting what the obsorbtion rate

is. It was my choice to go with a compounded gel as opposed to AG.

I just wondered about putting on 10 grams of AG each day. Also, my

doc will only prescribe a compounded gel from one pharmacy that he

trusts, for all that is worth. The proof, outside of feeling good,

will be in the numbers. That will be interesting.

What sort of therapy are you on?

y

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> > > > > difference

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > >was

> > > > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did

stop

> > the

> > > > > > hairloss

> > > > > > > >but

> > > > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your

> results

> > > look

> > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it

> > with

> > > no

> > > > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read

> > thru

> > > > > posts

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to

find

> a

> > > > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move

on

> to

> > > hcg

> > > > > or

> > > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7

> days.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how

> here!

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > > > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage

> now!

> > > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer

> for

> > > dial-

> > > > up

> > > > > > Internet

> > > > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 8, 2004

Thanks allot for the info scotty. BTW, I am not knocking compounded

stuff too much, I agree that putting on 10G a day is a pain with

Androgel and it is great that they make compounded stuff at a

significantly higher percentage. Just saying, I don't think the math

transfers well, for example, that any man could get away with only

half a gram of gel a day, of any concentration, and feel the real

benefits of testosterone surging throughout their body over the long

term, would shock me. But no question, the compounded stuff still

does get it in your body, only question is how much.

Cheers,

Armyguy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the

only

> > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > >was

> > > > > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did

> stop

> > > the

> > > > > > > hairloss

> > > > > > > > >but

> > > > > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your

> > results

> > > > look

> > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting

it

> > > with

> > > > no

> > > > > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is

read

> > > thru

> > > > > > posts

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to

> find

> > a

> > > > > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would

move

> on

> > to

> > > > hcg

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > else

> > > > > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in

7

> > days.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn

how

> > here!

> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > > > > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra

Storage

> > now!

> > > > > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory

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> > for

> > > > dial-

> > > > > up

> > > > > > > Internet

> > > > > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 8, 2004

I fully agree with Armyguy. When in the very beginning of my HH adventure, I

tried AD I felt great for about 2-3 weeks, after that it went downhill and I

swithed to hCG, then Clomid and

soon probably back to some sort of gel.

>From: armyguy4001 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:49:26 -0000

>

>Hi y,

>

>How long have you been on the compounded for? I wish you the best

>and I hope you keep feeling great, but note that in the begining,

>the effects of the gel often have their best symptomatic effects.

>That's because it is adding to the testosterone already being

>produced. But after about a month, you are just on the gel alone and

>for allot of people, the benefits lessen. Also, the dose might need

>to be significantly upped. But it isn't like that for everybody, so

>please keep us updated over the coming weeks/months and let us know

>what's working for you.

>

>Cheers,

>Armyguy

>

> > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> > > difference

> > > > I

> > > > > >was

> > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> > > > hairloss

> > > > > >but

> > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results

>look

> > > > like

> > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with

>no

> > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

> > > posts

> > > > and

> > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to

>hcg

> > > or

> > > > else

> > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > > download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for

>dial-

> > up

> > > > Internet

> > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

>

_________________________________________________________________

Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.

http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

January 8, 2004

y,

it seems that you are the only one who tried Proviron and I know that it

helpeed you.

I am sure you research it before trying.

Did you find any info about side effects? The only one I know is hair loss.

But how about liver,

T levels etc etc. Also how long can you take it?

I am about to order it,

Appreciate your reply.

>From: scotty082865 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:24:11 -0000

>

>I used Clomid for over 6 months with decent results. It is harsh on

>the liver according to the information sheet included with the drug

>fromt he manufacturer. That is an issue for me but I was alble to

>control it with a liver cleanser called Liv52, some additional Milk

>Thistle, and r-ALA. When taking those, my liver values were right

>back to normal. But even with that, I choose to go with a

>compounded gel and am very glad I did. I feel so very much better.

>And I really thought clomid was great for me, kept my T in the upper

>600's and my LH in the stratosphere - 39. But the TRT is better.

>

>My European source for Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) is $9 per 25 50mg

>tablets - manufactured by Anfarm Hellas SA.

>

>y

>

> > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only difference

>I

> > >was

> > > > >taking

> > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

>hairloss

> > >but

> > > > >it

> > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

>like

> > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > >significant

> > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru posts

>and

> > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > >knowledgable MD

> > > > >(I

> > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg or

>else

> > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

>download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > >

> > > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up

>Internet

> > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

>

_________________________________________________________________

Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet

access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

January 9, 2004

Took it for two months. Began working in the first week. Extremely

well, for releif of ED. Yes, I researched. Hair loss was the only

thing I found. Did not find any evidence that it interrupted the

HPTA. It's close chemically to DHT.

y

> > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

difference

> >I

> > > >was

> > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> >hairloss

> > > >but

> > > > > >it

> > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> >like

> > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

posts

> >and

> > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

or

> >else

> > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> >download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

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> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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January 9, 2004

Thanks y.

Here is update on my Clomid use,

after 3 weeks on 25mg eod (my initial T was 220)

T - 961 (241-827)

Free T - 254 (34-194)

E2 - 28 (10-50)

SHBG 30 (7-50)

AST - 23 (2-50)

ALT - 14 (2-60)

Feel good, but still sex drive is non-existent.

According to my Dr. (and he seems to be a very good one), my hormones are

like I am 18 again (i am 44), but

1. where is my libido?

When my T was around 600-700 my sex drive was much higher

2.Any risks in having T above high range for months?

I know that if I do not reduce Clomid to say 25mg every tree days, my T will

go higher.

Any opinon is appreciated.

P.S. My Dr. said I am his 13 patients who's lost all sex drive after taking

Femara

(I was taking it 2.5 mg eod for 10 days about 3 months ago, which killed my

libido)

>From: scotty082865 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: My story and my test results: ALEX

>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:48:01 -0000

>

>Took it for two months. Began working in the first week. Extremely

>well, for releif of ED. Yes, I researched. Hair loss was the only

>thing I found. Did not find any evidence that it interrupted the

>HPTA. It's close chemically to DHT.

>

>y

>

> > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

>difference

> > >I

> > > > >was

> > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> > >hairloss

> > > > >but

> > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results look

> > >like

> > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it with no

> > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

>posts

> > >and

> > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to hcg

>or

> > >else

> > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > >download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > >

> > > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-

>up

> > >Internet

> > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

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>

_________________________________________________________________

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January 10, 2004

Looks like a great response. What were your LH numbers like? That

will tell you how your pituitary is rresponding but likely it is

pretty solid.

On the libido thing, I'm n ot quite sure what to tell you. Is it a

loss of libido (desire), an increase in ED, or both? At 700 or so T

with tons of free T (not like you have, but high), I had OK desire

but still had issues with ED. Now that I am on gel, I have very high

drive and no issue with ED. In fact, I will sit sometimes just

putting the thoughts of sex in my mind to " practice " the erectile

response. Sounds a little weird but I want to train myself to be

able to call everything to action strictly on the thought, not the

thought + stimulation. And I want to be free of Viagra.

In thinking this over, I think this must have something to do with

the ability to apply the gel in different places. In particular,

putting the gle on the scrotum causes a greater portion of the T to

be converted to DHT. DHT is much more androgenic. With Clomid the T

converts as your body sees fit. My opinion is that my body was not

converting enough to DHT and that was partly the cause of my ED. An

alternative therapy is to use a DHT gel, but my understanding (right

or wrong) is that it's a bit expensive. Anyway, I think that placing

a protion of the gel on my scrotum is why my ED has been reduced. I

have never had, nor do I currently have, issue with hair loss. But I

would take it if it meant I could continue feeling good.

y

> > > > > > > > > > > Your story is exacly same as mine, the only

> >difference

> > > >I

> > > > > >was

> > > > > > > >taking

> > > > > > > > > >another

> > > > > > > > > > > hairloss crap called Multiflora. It did stop the

> > > >hairloss

> > > > > >but

> > > > > > > >it

> > > > > > > > > >also made

> > > > > > > > > > > secondary HH in about 7 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > And yes, with such low LH and FSH your results

look

> > > >like

> > > > > > > >secondary HH.

> > > > > > > > > > > It's been now about a year I am fighting it

with no

> > > > > >significant

> > > > > > > > > > > improvements, though I opted for

> > > > > > > > > > > 'more natural' treatment -Clomid.

> > > > > > > > > > > I think, the very first thing to do is read thru

> >posts

> > > >and

> > > > > > > >links in our

> > > > > > > > > > > group, educate yourself and then try to find a

> > > > > >knowledgable MD

> > > > > > > >(I

> > > > > > > > > >still can

> > > > > > > > > > > not).

> > > > > > > > > > > Good luck

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >After a year of no improvement, I would move on to

hcg

> >or

> > > >else

> > > > > > > > > >exogenous t...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Clomid increased my LH and FSH markedly in 7 days.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Brad

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here!

> > > > > > > > > http://www.msnmessenger-

> > > >download.com/tracking/reach_customize

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > >

>_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > > Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now!

> > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for

dial-

> >up

> > > >Internet

> > > > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

> > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-

up

> >Internet

> > > access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your

high-speed

> experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us & page=byoa/prem & ST=1

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