Re: The Prisoners of Health Freedom

[Guest guest]

Oh, geeze, ...

I don't know anybody who talks or thinks like the ideologue that Baratz

described and then tore apart!

He musta run into some real wide eyed radicals in his younger days who made

such an impression upon him that ascribes these black and white qualities to

all those he does not understand!!!

This does not make for good discussion which is necessary for him to

understand a different point of view!!! Which he needs to do in order for

anyone to want to listen to him! Good night!...oh...or Good morning! Joanie

>Here's a little Xmas gift from Dr. Baratz. Enjoy!

>

>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

>

>The Prisoners of Health Freedom

>

>One of the recurrent themes that I have seen on several " alternative "

health lists and sites has been " Health Freedom " . Rhetoric asking for

" Health Freedom Fighters to Unite " and resist the forces of " conventional

medicine " have been regularly seen

<ugh, enough...sounds like a bad screenplay for one of those bad old movies

about the 60's counter culture>

[Guest guest]

Re. Lee's Christmas Present:

It is NOT the freedom to think or act differently or

try " alternative " methods which is being questioned, it is

the people

who persuade SICK people into trying and paying substantially amounts

of money for " treatments " , which at best do no harm, at worse

takes

the patient away from proven medicine, or just simply gives false

hope to terminate patients.

There is nothing wrong in giving people hope – but telling them

that

if they just follows this or that therapy, they will get WELL!! That

is wrong!!!

Everyone is entitled to try whatever they like, throwing stones in

the water, pretending they are throwing away the decease – eat

spinach, believing they get Popeye strength, sniffing rhinoceros

powder to gain – you know! But it is NOT all right for me or

anybody

else to make a fortune in selling throw stones, spinach or r-

powder claiming the above mentioned effects.

That is called fraud and quackery!! In former days this kind of

people were selling snake-oils.

Do HC pay her patients back their money if her treatment fails?? Do

she give her dead patients a new life because her cure didn't

work

like she say?

Most honest and serious businessman provide a kind of " no-cure-no-

pay " guarantee – but do the alternative practitioners?? No,

of course

not, most often they know their treatments are useless! But sometimes

a patients recover miraculous, not because of the treatment I guess,

but because spontaneous healing happens all the times – WITHOUT

ANY

treatment!! Conventional or alternative!

My story is a this: I've got a friend who was diagnosed with a

severe

malignant breast cancer. She was treated the normal way, surgery,

chemo, radiation, AND she went through a full HC therapy, cleances,

flushes, zapping, syncrometer, ridding her house from all pets and

friends (she was scared of being re-infected by parasites!)

She is well now, isn't she?? She should be, HC says so –

doesn't

she?? Or did we misunderstand something? If so please correct me, so

I can tell my dying friend that she is indeed well!!

She had a severe relapse during her HC- " cure " – she is

now in the

terminal state of the decease.

Her HC-therapist said when they started the treatment, that he could

cure her completely, no sweat!! Well, he did not, but what do she

do?? Can she get her money back to lighten up her last days?? Maybe

so she could afford to go to a nice Hospice – Oh, no - sorry, it

didn't work out!!

Excuse me my bitterness, but I would hate to know about others who on

their final day realize that they have been cheated.

Please everyone, do whatever you think will benefit you, but demand

that the alternative therapists provide REAL proof for their

treatments to work, or at least give some guaranties if not.

Pia J.

Denmark

This is my real name....and No, I do NOT know Lee, although I

absolutely sympathize with him in asking for PROOFS!!

[Guest guest]

Pia,

I am truly sorry for your friend and your expected loss.

I have no intention of defending or promoting any protocol.

Just for the sake of clarification though, are you implying that the surgeon,

doctor and radiologist returned THEIR fees because of lack of a cure?

That would be extremely interesting, because it's only done in ancient China as

far as I've ever heard.

Chuck

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:46:53 -0000, " Pia Johansen " <goldwings@...>

wrote:

>My story is a this: I've got a friend who was diagnosed with a

>severe

>malignant breast cancer. She was treated the normal way, surgery,

>chemo, radiation, AND she went through a full HC therapy, cleances,

>flushes, zapping, syncrometer, ridding her house from all pets and

>friends (she was scared of being re-infected by parasites!)

>She is well now, isn't she?? She should be, HC says so –

>doesn't

>she?? Or did we misunderstand something? If so please correct me, so

>I can tell my dying friend that she is indeed well!!

>She had a severe relapse during her HC- " cure " – she is

>now in the

>terminal state of the decease.

>

>Her HC-therapist said when they started the treatment, that he could

>cure her completely, no sweat!! Well, he did not, but what do she

>do?? Can she get her money back to lighten up her last days?? Maybe

>so she could afford to go to a nice Hospice – Oh, no - sorry, it

>didn't work out!!

>

>Excuse me my bitterness, but I would hate to know about others who on

>their final day realize that they have been cheated.

>

>Please everyone, do whatever you think will benefit you, but demand

>that the alternative therapists provide REAL proof for their

>treatments to work, or at least give some guaranties if not.

>

>Pia J.

>Denmark

[Guest guest]

> Just for the sake of clarification though, are you implying that

the surgeon,

> doctor and radiologist returned THEIR fees because of lack of a

cure?

> That would be extremely interesting, because it's only done in

ancient China as

> far as I've ever heard.

> Chuck

*******************************************************************

Maybe I should clarify how the health-system works in Denmark: We

have a public health service, we do not pay for medical help. We do

not need private insurance's.

We pay during taxes, and the as a democratic society the people put

in charge are elected by the people.

That is why I compare " alternate practitioners " to

businessman.....

The people do NOT put them in their positions! They are self-

appointed, and as such must live by the ordinary business-rules!!

If I buy a car, and the salesman tell me it will run without gas,

just as long as I say seven prayers every morning, then I certainly

expect it to!! I am not stupid!! Or at least I expect to get my money

back when it turn out it need gas anyway – with or without

prayers!!

I see every person who is NOT employed by the Danish people to be a

private businessman – Why not????

Maybe too naive – but as we all will know: sick people are

SOOOOOOO

easy to make believe almost anything – as long as there are a

glimpse

of hope in it....

Pia J.

Denmark

[Guest guest]

Here's a quote from Bob Baratz,

" The quackpot is boiling with hot oil, and the rag

tag posse of snake oil vigilantes has your

number......and a whole lot more. When you

think someone is following you, you just might be

right. Your parasites are in our sites and your goose

is cooked.

Bob Baratz "

Does that sound like the same man who's trying to

sound reasonable?

Jan Bolen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Not only is Baratz's remark childish, he has gets his lapdog to post

his remark to the list.

Leo

-----------------------------------------------

> Here's a quote from Bob Baratz,

>

> " The quackpot is boiling with hot oil, and the rag

> tag posse of snake oil vigilantes has your

> number......and a whole lot more. When you

> think someone is following you, you just might be

> right. Your parasites are in our sites and your goose

> is cooked.

>

> Bob Baratz "

>

> Does that sound like the same man who's trying to

> sound reasonable?

>

> Jan Bolen

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

The Bolens seem to have a selective memory. Here is the entire post, since they

removed certain parts......perhaps they perceived it was talking about some

particular unnamed people.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Originally posted 09/07/00 to the Healthfraud Discussion List

Title: The Publicist the Coward

Recently we heard once again from one of our trolls, ranters, and supporters of

the Queen of Quackery. He even claims to work for her, and a number of other

people under the guise of " health freedom " . He claims to be a " publicist " .

How many real publicists do you know without an address?

This person has maligned, libeled, and made totally false and distorted charges.

He has written to licensing boards, threatened lawsuits, and made a genuine

nuisance of himself. He has sent private hate mail, posted some of our names to

SPAM lists, and done a number of other equally offensive deeds.

From all evidence he doesn't even believe what he writes, but writes it anyway.

He's a fraud's fraud! This supposed protector of freedom doesn't even vote!

He's part of the Quackery Queen's Court, the " for profit " organization that is

made to look like a non-profit. They have collected millions from those they

dupe with phony electrical zappers, sham liver flush recipes, and false promises

of cures for everything.

This gutless wonder is quick to criticize, fast to chastise, speedy to make

false charges, but won't stand up and be accountable for his deeds. In short

he is a gutless coward.

Beyond that, he isn't half as smart as he thinks he is. As the man

says.......stay tuned.

The quackpot is boiling with hot oil, and the rag tag posse of snake oil

vigilantes has your number......and a whole lot more. When you think someone is

following you, you just might be right. Your parasites are in our sites and

your goose is cooked.

Bob Baratz

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I'll have to admit that I found this amusing at the time. It's a humorous

presentation of the facts and right on target. We were getting tired of being

spammed by " The Publicist " , who'd hit and run. But, as you can see from the

comment below, he can't take his own medicine.

Lee, PT

The Quack-Files - http://www.geocities.com/healthbase

********************************************************************************\

***

" Mankind's capacity for deception and self-deception knows no limits. " -- PL

" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. " -- Reebok ad.

" Manipulation isn't all it's cracked up to be! "

********************************************************************************\

***

Re: The Prisoners of Health Freedom

> Here's a quote from Bob Baratz,

>

> " The quackpot is boiling with hot oil, and the rag

> tag posse of snake oil vigilantes has your

> number......and a whole lot more. When you

> think someone is following you, you just might be

> right. Your parasites are in our sites and your goose

> is cooked.

>

> Bob Baratz "

>

> Does that sound like the same man who's trying to

> sound reasonable?

>

> Jan Bolen

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>