Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Hi , Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a PA's body. Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't believe we've seen any credible studies on the issue. I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My Vitamin D came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of em5704 I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D combination supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last measured, my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old woman and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 My recommendation is to DASH which gets all the calcium and prob Vit D most folks need. Cheaper as well. The fact that your D level did not increase much may mean several things. 1. Your gut does not absorb it well. 2. Your own Vit D level control system is set lower than others. 3. The Vit D assay is not reliable. Who is doing the assay? Which Vit D are they measureing? 4. You are taking something that is blocking Vit D absorbtion. 5. The source you are using is not easily absorbed. Do they have studies showing that their brand increases Vit D levels in humans? CE Grim On Sep 10, 2008, at 3:32 PM, Valarie wrote: > Hi , > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a > PA's body. > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't > believe > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My > Vitamin D > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of em5704 > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D > combination > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last > measured, > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old > woman > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I am taking 800 IU of Jarrow Vitamin D3. I'm sure Jarrow has no studies about its brand increasing Vitamin D levels in humans. There are also 200 IU of in my calcium/mag supplement. My endo advised me to take the Vitamin D3 + cal/mag as I have osteoporosis from long-undiagnosed hyperparathyroidism. My primary wants me on Foxamax even though my DEXA is a little better now than nine years ago. I do not intend to take any more drugs than necessary; especially not Fosamax. Taking calcium and Vitamin D is my effort to avoid any of those. What would be blocking Vitamin D assimilation? Both Vitamin D assays were done by LabCorp. They are measuring 25-hydroxy Vitamin D. I do DASH generally but don't drink enough milk. I am trying to limit my intake to about 1,000 calories so getting enough nutrients is not easy. According to FitDay, I am getting about 60% calcium and only about 25% of the RDA for Vitamin D. Three months ago, I went back on real $inthroid (from a generic by Merck) thinking maybe my T4 was causing the anxiousness. My TSH increased from 1.9 to 4.5 and I'm gaining weight. My FT3 is right at the bottom of the range. This is a never-ending battle. I eat about 650 mg Na/d. Last week, I ate about 1,500 mg Na for two days in a row. I still have not recovered - anxiousness, weakness and increased sweats - again. Now, I think spiro is causing stomach pain. I've always had an iron stomach. I guess I'll have to adapt to Inspra. On the bright side, before I ate that sodium, I was doing intervals on the treadmill and lifting light weights without my muscles cramping up. I'm going to see the shrink tomorrow to see if he can help me with the anxiety. I'm pretty worn out. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim My recommendation is to DASH which gets all the calcium and prob Vit D most folks need. Cheaper as well. The fact that your D level did not increase much may mean several things. 1. Your gut does not absorb it well. 2. Your own Vit D level control system is set lower than others. 3. The Vit D assay is not reliable. Who is doing the assay? Which Vit D are they measureing? 4. You are taking something that is blocking Vit D absorbtion. 5. The source you are using is not easily absorbed. Do they have studies showing that their brand increases Vit D levels in humans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 When I take extra Ca, like 1000 more than 1200 RDA, my BP goes up. Extra D3 as in 800 IU more than the 1000 IU I get with diet alone, BP goes up. I haven't tested D3 status, I'll check the Dr next annual. Anyway, like you say we need some internal models to tell us how much of each if not the RDA. I haven't found any magic combination/ratio of Ca, K, Mg, to lower BP, just lower Na. Regards RE: Calcium supplement? Hi , Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a PA's body. Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't believe we've seen any credible studies on the issue. I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My Vitamin D came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of em5704 I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D combination supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last measured, my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old woman and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 4000 IU of D3 per day brought me up to 33 ng/mL. I now take 7000 IU/day and get a blood level of 63 ng/mL summer and winter. The lab reference range is 32-100 ng/mL but who knows what it would be in the tropics among healthy hunter gathers. I get some calcium in a multivitamin put out by the Life Extension Foundation, otherwise I don't take any supplemental calcium. My blood level of calcium remain relatively unchanged regardless of if I supplement with calcium or not. Steve Valarie wrote: > > > Hi , > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a PA's body. > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't believe > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My Vitamin D > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of em5704 > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D combination > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last measured, > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old woman > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 The name Life Extension Foundation makes me nervous. What sort of long term trials do they have that their stuff does extend life? CE Grim MD On Sep 10, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Steve wrote: > 4000 IU of D3 per day brought me up to 33 ng/mL. I now take 7000 IU/ > day > and get a blood level of 63 ng/mL summer and winter. The lab reference > range is 32-100 ng/mL but who knows what it would be in the tropics > among healthy hunter gathers. > > I get some calcium in a multivitamin put out by the Life Extension > Foundation, otherwise I don't take any supplemental calcium. My blood > level of calcium remain relatively unchanged regardless of if I > supplement with calcium or not. > > Steve > > Valarie wrote: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a > PA's body. > > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't > believe > > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My > Vitamin D > > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > > > Val > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of em5704 > > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D > combination > > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last > measured, > > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old > woman > > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > > > -- > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > > May your pressure be low!  CE Grim BS, MS, MD High Blood Pressure Consulting Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Medical and Cardiology Medical College of Wisconsin Board certified in Internal Med, Geriatrics and Hypertension. Interests: 1. Difficult to control high blood pressure. 2. The effect of recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in human populations. 3. Improving blood pressure measruement in the office and home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 when do you take spiro? I forget how much? It can be spread out and taking with meals helps some with GI problems. Re Vit D absorbtion see below. J Bone Miner Res. 2007 Dec;22 Suppl 2:V50-4. Related Articles, Links  Vitamin D insufficiency/deficiency in gastrointestinal disorders. Bikle DD. Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, University of California, San Francisco, California, USA. Vitamin D and calcium are critical for skeletal health. Their absorption from the intestine is negatively impacted by a number of gastrointestinal diseases and surgical procedures, leading to osteoporosis and/or osteomalacia. Diseases of the liver can impact the metabolism of vitamin D to its circulating form, 25(OH)D, as well as the production of carrier proteins, albumin and vitamin D-binding protein, that may alter the delivery of 25(OH)D and its active metabolite 1,25(OH)(2)D to target tissues, including the skeleton, again leading to bone disease. The clinician evaluating a patient with apparent osteoporosis and vitamin D deficiency/ insufficiency needs to consider a gastrointestinal etiology. Similarly, the clinician evaluating a patient with a gastrointestinal disorder needs to evaluate that patient for vitamin D deficiency and bone disease. Treatment involves adequate vitamin D and calcium supplementation to achieve normal serum 25(OH)D, PTH, and serum and urine calcium levels. On Sep 10, 2008, at 10:24 PM, Valarie wrote: > I am taking 800 IU of Jarrow Vitamin D3. I'm sure Jarrow has no > studies about its brand increasing Vitamin D levels in humans. > There are also 200 IU of in my calcium/mag supplement. My endo > advised me to take the Vitamin D3 + cal/mag as I have osteoporosis > from long-undiagnosed hyperparathyroidism. My primary wants me on > Foxamax even though my DEXA is a little better now than nine years > ago. I do not intend to take any more drugs than necessary; > especially not Fosamax. Taking calcium and Vitamin D is my effort > to avoid any of those. > > What would be blocking Vitamin D assimilation? Both Vitamin D > assays were done by LabCorp. They are measuring 25-hydroxy Vitamin D. > > I do DASH generally but don't drink enough milk. I am trying to > limit my intake to about 1,000 calories so getting enough nutrients > is not easy. According to FitDay, I am getting about 60% calcium > and only about 25% of the RDA for Vitamin D. > > Three months ago, I went back on real $inthroid (from a generic by > Merck) thinking maybe my T4 was causing the anxiousness. My TSH > increased from 1.9 to 4.5 and I'm gaining weight. My FT3 is right > at the bottom of the range. This is a never-ending battle. > > I eat about 650 mg Na/d. Last week, I ate about 1,500 mg Na for two > days in a row. I still have not recovered - anxiousness, weakness > and increased sweats - again. Now, I think spiro is causing stomach > pain. I've always had an iron stomach. I guess I'll have to adapt > to Inspra. On the bright side, before I ate that sodium, I was > doing intervals on the treadmill and lifting light weights without > my muscles cramping up. > > I'm going to see the shrink tomorrow to see if he can help me with > the anxiety. I'm pretty worn out. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim > > My recommendation is to DASH which gets all the calcium and prob Vit > D most folks need. > > Cheaper as well. > > The fact that your D level did not increase much may mean several > things. > > 1. Your gut does not absorb it well. > 2. Your own Vit D level control system is set lower than others. > 3. The Vit D assay is not reliable. Who is doing the assay? Which > Vit D are they measureing? > 4. You are taking something that is blocking Vit D absorbtion. > 5. The source you are using is not easily absorbed. Do they have > studies showing that their brand increases Vit D levels in humans? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I take 50 mg a.m. and p.m., always with food. Before I went off it in June, I was starting to feel some pain. Now, back on it since Aug 4, the pain is back. I've been taking Prilosec and that stops the pain but cannot take that forever. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim when do you take spiro? I forget how much? It can be spread out and taking with meals helps some with GI problems. Re Vit D absorbtion see below. J Bone Miner Res. 2007 Dec;22 Suppl 2:V50-4. Related Articles, Links  Vitamin D insufficiency/deficiency in gastrointestinal disorders. Bikle DD. Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, University of California, San Francisco, California, USA. Vitamin D and calcium are critical for skeletal health. Their absorption from the intestine is negatively impacted by a number of gastrointestinal diseases and surgical procedures, leading to osteoporosis and/or osteomalacia. Diseases of the liver can impact the metabolism of vitamin D to its circulating form, 25(OH)D, as well as the production of carrier proteins, albumin and vitamin D-binding protein, that may alter the delivery of 25(OH)D and its active metabolite 1,25(OH)(2)D to target tissues, including the skeleton, again leading to bone disease. The clinician evaluating a patient with apparent osteoporosis and vitamin D deficiency/ insufficiency needs to consider a gastrointestinal etiology. Similarly, the clinician evaluating a patient with a gastrointestinal disorder needs to evaluate that patient for vitamin D deficiency and bone disease. Treatment involves adequate vitamin D and calcium supplementation to achieve normal serum 25(OH)D, PTH, and serum and urine calcium levels. On Sep 10, 2008, at 10:24 PM, Valarie wrote: > I am taking 800 IU of Jarrow Vitamin D3. I'm sure Jarrow has no > studies about its brand increasing Vitamin D levels in humans. > There are also 200 IU of in my calcium/mag supplement. My endo > advised me to take the Vitamin D3 + cal/mag as I have osteoporosis > from long-undiagnosed hyperparathyroidism. My primary wants me on > Foxamax even though my DEXA is a little better now than nine years > ago. I do not intend to take any more drugs than necessary; > especially not Fosamax. Taking calcium and Vitamin D is my effort > to avoid any of those. > > What would be blocking Vitamin D assimilation? Both Vitamin D > assays were done by LabCorp. They are measuring 25-hydroxy Vitamin D. > > I do DASH generally but don't drink enough milk. I am trying to > limit my intake to about 1,000 calories so getting enough nutrients > is not easy. According to FitDay, I am getting about 60% calcium > and only about 25% of the RDA for Vitamin D. > > Three months ago, I went back on real $inthroid (from a generic by > Merck) thinking maybe my T4 was causing the anxiousness. My TSH > increased from 1.9 to 4.5 and I'm gaining weight. My FT3 is right > at the bottom of the range. This is a never-ending battle. > > I eat about 650 mg Na/d. Last week, I ate about 1,500 mg Na for two > days in a row. I still have not recovered - anxiousness, weakness > and increased sweats - again. Now, I think spiro is causing stomach > pain. I've always had an iron stomach. I guess I'll have to adapt > to Inspra. On the bright side, before I ate that sodium, I was > doing intervals on the treadmill and lifting light weights without > my muscles cramping up. > > I'm going to see the shrink tomorrow to see if he can help me with > the anxiety. I'm pretty worn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I would like to provide an appropriate response but I wonder if you are really open to it? I don't want to waste my time if " selection bias " has already closed the door. Steve Clarence Grim wrote: > > > The name Life Extension Foundation makes me nervous. > > What sort of long term trials do they have that their stuff does > extend life? > > CE Grim MD > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Steve wrote: > > > 4000 IU of D3 per day brought me up to 33 ng/mL. I now take 7000 IU/ > > day > > and get a blood level of 63 ng/mL summer and winter. The lab reference > > range is 32-100 ng/mL but who knows what it would be in the tropics > > among healthy hunter gathers. > > > > I get some calcium in a multivitamin put out by the Life Extension > > Foundation, otherwise I don't take any supplemental calcium. My blood > > level of calcium remain relatively unchanged regardless of if I > > supplement with calcium or not. > > > > Steve > > > > Valarie wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi , > > > > > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a > > PA's body. > > > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't > > believe > > > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > > > > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My > > Vitamin D > > > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > > > > > Val > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of em5704 > > > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > > > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D > > combination > > > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last > > measured, > > > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > > > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old > > woman > > > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > > > > > -- > > > > Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> > > > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html> > > > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > > > > > > May your pressure be low! > >  > > CE Grim BS, MS, MD -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hi Val, When you went off the Spiro did you taper off or just quit? What effects did you notice? The reason I ask, is that I've taken my does from 200 to 150 to 100 now and have taken Dr. Grimms advice about diet and realized that if I stay on a way low sodium diet my BP is normal. I want to get off the Spiro so bad and ! > > > I am taking 800 IU of Jarrow Vitamin D3. I'm sure Jarrow has no > > studies about its brand increasing Vitamin D levels in humans. > > There are also 200 IU of in my calcium/mag supplement. My endo > > advised me to take the Vitamin D3 + cal/mag as I have osteoporosis > > from long-undiagnosed hyperparathyroidism. My primary wants me on > > Foxamax even though my DEXA is a little better now than nine years > > ago. I do not intend to take any more drugs than necessary; > > especially not Fosamax. Taking calcium and Vitamin D is my effort > > to avoid any of those. > > > > What would be blocking Vitamin D assimilation? Both Vitamin D > > assays were done by LabCorp. They are measuring 25-hydroxy Vitamin D. > > > > I do DASH generally but don't drink enough milk. I am trying to > > limit my intake to about 1,000 calories so getting enough nutrients > > is not easy. According to FitDay, I am getting about 60% calcium > > and only about 25% of the RDA for Vitamin D. > > > > Three months ago, I went back on real $inthroid (from a generic by > > Merck) thinking maybe my T4 was causing the anxiousness. My TSH > > increased from 1.9 to 4.5 and I'm gaining weight. My FT3 is right > > at the bottom of the range. This is a never-ending battle. > > > > I eat about 650 mg Na/d. Last week, I ate about 1,500 mg Na for two > > days in a row. I still have not recovered - anxiousness, weakness > > and increased sweats - again. Now, I think spiro is causing stomach > > pain. I've always had an iron stomach. I guess I'll have to adapt > > to Inspra. On the bright side, before I ate that sodium, I was > > doing intervals on the treadmill and lifting light weights without > > my muscles cramping up. > > > > I'm going to see the shrink tomorrow to see if he can help me with > > the anxiety. I'm pretty worn out. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 With all due respect, if I followed what my Dr. said, I'd still be on HCTZ, Actos, Fosamax --- or dead. Some doctors are current with their reading and others haven't read anything new in years. My Harvard-trained primary had never heard of PA. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I just stopped it. Within five days, I was having difficulty walking because of the water retention. That's when I started HCTZ. Going off spiro cold turkey was traumatic for me. I cried at the drop of a hat for about three weeks. Unless you have to go off of it for testing, I would recommend that you gradually ease downward on spiro. I keep track of my food (and sodium) consumption in FitDay. www.fitday.com I think the program is about $30 or you can use the online version free. Without carefully-kept records, I'd have no idea what is associated with what. For example, according to my records, I ate about 1,500 mg Na last Friday and again on Saturday. By Sunday, I was weak, sweating and shaky. Since nothing else changed, I have to associate that change in my health with the sodium last week. Last Saturday I was feeling almost normal. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of mmcandmcc Hi Val, When you went off the Spiro did you taper off or just quit? What effects did you notice? The reason I ask, is that I've taken my does from 200 to 150 to 100 now and have taken Dr. Grimms advice about diet and realized that if I stay on a way low sodium diet my BP is normal. I want to get off the Spiro so bad and ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Very little. Mainly mice/rat/elegans experiments. The part that makes me nervous is some folks insist on reducing their weight to what I would call extremes. I'm comfortable that a " normal " BMI is good for me. I base that on the fact I did not start CR in childhood. Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. What a person can do is get the book by Dr Pearson, read it and try to find a suggestion in there that is still relevant. We still must rely on basic medicine for cures/treatment. Look at www.livingto100.com and evaluate your expected lifespan. Also realize the number of centenarians is growing and analysis of foods/supplements does not give any good reasons. Regards. Re: Calcium supplement? The name Life Extension Foundation makes me nervous. What sort of long term trials do they have that their stuff does extend life? CE Grim MD On Sep 10, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Steve wrote: > 4000 IU of D3 per day brought me up to 33 ng/mL. I now take 7000 IU/ > day > and get a blood level of 63 ng/mL summer and winter. The lab reference > range is 32-100 ng/mL but who knows what it would be in the tropics > among healthy hunter gathers. > > I get some calcium in a multivitamin put out by the Life Extension > Foundation, otherwise I don't take any supplemental calcium. My blood > level of calcium remain relatively unchanged regardless of if I > supplement with calcium or not. > > Steve > > Valarie wrote: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a > PA's body. > > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't > believe > > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My > Vitamin D > > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > > > Val > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of em5704 > > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D > combination > > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last > measured, > > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old > woman > > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > > > -- > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > > May your pressure be low!  CE Grim BS, MS, MD High Blood Pressure Consulting Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Medical and Cardiology Medical College of Wisconsin Board certified in Internal Med, Geriatrics and Hypertension. Interests: 1. Difficult to control high blood pressure. 2. The effect of recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in human populations. 3. Improving blood pressure measruement in the office and home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Great advice! I've been keeping careful records since my dissapionting visit to Cleveland Clinic. I have noticed I get what feels like a hangover (no joke) the morning after I indulge and eat high salt bedtime snack or high salt dinner. > > I just stopped it. Within five days, I was having difficulty walking > because of the water retention. That's when I started HCTZ. Going off > spiro cold turkey was traumatic for me. I cried at the drop of a hat for > about three weeks. > > Unless you have to go off of it for testing, I would recommend that you > gradually ease downward on spiro. I keep track of my food (and sodium) > consumption in FitDay. www.fitday.com I think the program is about $30 or > you can use the online version free. Without carefully-kept records, I'd > have no idea what is associated with what. For example, according to my > records, I ate about 1,500 mg Na last Friday and again on Saturday. By > Sunday, I was weak, sweating and shaky. Since nothing else changed, I have > to associate that change in my health with the sodium last week. Last > Saturday I was feeling almost normal. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of mmcandmcc > > > Hi Val, > > When you went off the Spiro did you taper off or just quit? What > effects did you notice? The reason I ask, is that I've taken my does > from 200 to 150 to 100 now and have taken Dr. Grimms advice about > diet and realized that if I stay on a way low sodium diet my BP is > normal. I want to get off the Spiro so bad and ! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Pardon me for confusing CR with the LEF org. Before I get flamed by either. I believe more in the CR philosophy for life extension which is simply eating less food. Some do more than that. LEF deals with a lot of supplements and as far as I know they are good quality supplements. I like to read their articles but I peruse many more before following any " health " pundits. Regards Re: Calcium supplement? The name Life Extension Foundation makes me nervous. What sort of long term trials do they have that their stuff does extend life? CE Grim MD On Sep 10, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Steve wrote: > 4000 IU of D3 per day brought me up to 33 ng/mL. I now take 7000 IU/ > day > and get a blood level of 63 ng/mL summer and winter. The lab reference > range is 32-100 ng/mL but who knows what it would be in the tropics > among healthy hunter gathers. > > I get some calcium in a multivitamin put out by the Life Extension > Foundation, otherwise I don't take any supplemental calcium. My blood > level of calcium remain relatively unchanged regardless of if I > supplement with calcium or not. > > Steve > > Valarie wrote: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > Dave on this list often posted that calcium acts like salt in a > PA's body. > > Others have mentioned that calcium increases aldosterone. I don't > believe > > we've seen any credible studies on the issue. > > > > I've been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D for several months. My > Vitamin D > > came up from 23.4 to 25.6 ng/mL - still way too low. > > > > Val > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of em5704 > > I'm confused about whether taking calcium supplements are harmful or > > not in PA. I've been taking a run of the mill calcium/Vit D > combination > > supplement, 1000 mg daily with 800 IU of Vitamin D. When last > measured, > > my blood calcium was normal. (I also take 100 mg of spiro daily.) > > Should people with PA take or not take calcium? I'm a 51-year old > woman > > and there is osteoporosis in my family. Thanks, Em > > > -- > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > > May your pressure be low!  CE Grim BS, MS, MD High Blood Pressure Consulting Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Medical and Cardiology Medical College of Wisconsin Board certified in Internal Med, Geriatrics and Hypertension. Interests: 1. Difficult to control high blood pressure. 2. The effect of recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in human populations. 3. Improving blood pressure measruement in the office and home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 jwwright wrote: > > > Pardon me for confusing CR with the LEF org. Before I get flamed by either. > I believe more in the CR philosophy for life extension which is simply > eating less food. Some do more than that. > > LEF deals with a lot of supplements and as far as I know they are good > quality supplements. I like to read their articles but I peruse many > more before following any " health " pundits. Wise advice. I read widely and LEF is just on source and sometimes behind the latest information - perhaps that's just the time frame it takes to get a magazine published after the writing/research is done. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. And this means exactly what? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Depends on the doc. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Steve And this means exactly what? > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 As to following what my doctor says, I first took 4000 IU/day of vitamin D. I can order blood tests on my own and Labcorp reported that my blood levels of vitamin D at 4000 iu/day was 33 ng/mL with a lab reference range of 32-100 ng/mL. Consequently, 4000 IU only got me to the bottom end of the low range. I increased my intake to 7000 IU/day of D3 and retested in the winter this time by requesting lab work from my doctor. My blood levels were now 63 ng/mL, a number I'm happy with and that he was to. When I can, I take action and then present my efforts to my doctor. I later retested at the end of summer after having spent many many hours over weeks in the midday sun gardening and installing landscaping on 2/3 acre lot. My blood levels in short sleeve shirts and sometimes shorts were still 63 ng/mL. One needs to get out there with shorts only or less in order to get any real measurable vitamin D conversion from sun level. I'm also at a higher latitude than man evolved at, higher by far. I expect that my vitamin D levels were in the teens or lower without supplementation. An issue no doctor has ever tested for several decades and it was only my proactive approach that brought this deficiency to light. If your doctor isn't worried enough to test, that doesn't mean your ok. As you can tell, I take a very very proactive approach to my health care. I'm not a fan of the traditional assembly line approach to medical practice and come fully informed to address my concerns. My experiences it that if I see two doctors, I will get two different opinions and if I see the same doctor two times in a row with more than 6 weeks between visits, I will also get two opinion. There are certain doctors that make arrogant doctors appear saintlike, they are named endocrinologists. If one is looking for doctor that will work with you, your best shot in my experiences and in the experiences I've read about from others is to see a D.O. They have much more " user friendly " training. I have horror stories dealing with endocrinologists (where were evil and completely dishonest) and cardiologists (who didn't keep up and might have killed me) as well as general practitioners. Some doctors are only informed about and interested in prescribing prescription drugs, even well studied non-prescription items remain a mystery to them. If there are two options, a $4 prescription drug available from walmart and a $200 latest and greatest that is no more effective, they will prescribe the most expensive. My general practices is to try to determine what type of drug I might be prescribed beforehand and bring pricing information and drug options to my appointment. This is not always possible because there is a guessing factor involved. Then, if your doctors wants to prescribe something you haven't prepared for, one needs to be ready to query your doctor in some detail as to options, pricing, side effects, etc. I also give my doctor guidance on how to prescribe to limit my costs. For example, a blood pressure medication Toprol XL is generic at 25 mg but non-generic at 50 and 100 mg. I needed 75 mg/day. My directions were to prescribe 25 mg three times a day which I would take all at once. This resulted in the minimum insurance cost of $7. When I was prescribed a statin I set the dosage indicating that I would be cutting it in fourths to get the correct amount. This provided a 1 year supply at $10. Each time my doctor wrote as directed. If he hadn't, I might be looking for a new doctor depending on his justification. There are many doctors that don't do well with a proactive patient that is trying to both to manage his health and his costs. I expect a doctor to work with me like a paid adviser. I am never never NEVER a patient (unless I get brought to a hospital incapacitated - hasn't happened yet). I am a client/customer and my medical advisers are similar to mechanics, brokers, bankers, etc. Useful but not gods - and often guessing. I should mention that my blood pressure usually goes up as winter begins and comes down again in the spring. It's not exactly seasonal since it varies by 2-4 months either way. My cardiologists and general practitioners have no idea how to deal with this. I just adjust my meds up and down 25 mg at a time. I also sometimes have daily changes where if I taken some caffeine in the morning, my blood pressure and pulse rate will drop 10-20 points each for 4-8 hours then rebound. Sometimes it happens without the caffeine but always happens with a small amount of caffeine. I end up taking a non-timed release version of my blood pressure meds some evenings to counteract this. None of doctors has a clue why this is so either nor do they seem to know were to start to figure it out. Steve jwwright wrote: > > > My BMI is a little high. I don't worry it if she doesn't worry it. > The advantage she has is practice. I can read thousands of articles but > mostly they do not tell ME what to do for MY body. > For every article that says do A there's another says do B. > I keep those in context with her opinions. > > What I find is the claims don't fit me. I came to that 8 yrs ago. > > EG, Inre vitamin D: > http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/ > <http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/> > > " Holick stands by this advice despite the fact that in February he was > rebuked and forced to resign from the dermatology department at Boston > University's medical school.[62] Part of the reason given was that his work > is partly funded, and actively promoted, by the Indoor Tanning Association, > an industry group with obvious financial interests. " > > Just to be safe, I'll get the blood test, but I'm not sure what I'll do if > it's low because: > > Per Dr Vieth: > J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):575-9. > Why the optimal requirement for Vitamin D3 is probably much higher than > what is officially recommended for adults. > > Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathobiology, University of > Toronto, and Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital, > Toronto, Canada M5G 1X5. rvieth@... > <mailto:rvieth%40mtsinai.on.ca> > > The physiologic range for circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D; the > measure of Vitamin D nutrient status] concentration in humans and other > primates extends to beyond 200 nmol/L (>80 ng/mL). This biologic " normal " > value is greater than current population norms for 25(OH)D. Concentrations > of 25(OH)D that correlate with desirable effects extend to at least 70 > nmol/L, with no obvious threshold. Randomized clinical trials using 20 mcg > (800 IU) per day of Vitamin D show that this suppresses parathyroid hormone, > preserves bone mineral density, prevents fractures, lowers blood pressure > and improves balance. Calcium absorption from diet correlates with 25(OH)D > in the normal range. Health effects of Vitamin D beyond osteoporosis are > mostly supported by the circumstantial evidence of epidemiologic studies and > laboratory research. These include prevention of cancer and the autoimmune > diseases, insulin-dependent diabetes and multiple sclerosis. One mcg per day > of Vitamin D(3) (cholecalciferol) increases circulating 25(OH)D by about 1 > nmol/L (0.4 ng/mL). A recommended dietary allowance (RDA) is the long-term > daily intake level that meets the total requirements for the nutrient by > nearly all healthy individuals (it would presume no sunshine). If 70 nmol/L > is regarded as a minimum desirable target 25(OH)D concentration, then > current recommendations of 15 mcg per day do not meet the criterion of an > RDA. " PMID: 15225842 > > That seems mixed up. I don't know what all that means, but I do understand " > " Randomized clinical trials using 20 mcg (800 IU) per day of Vitamin D show > that this suppresses parathyroid hormone, preserves bone mineral density, > prevents fractures, lowers blood pressure and improves balance. " > > And I know I get about 1000 IU per day in diet and MV. Plus sunlight. So if > 800 lowers BP, and I eat 1000 IU, it must be mine is as low as it can get > from Vit D. > But I've also tried an additional 800 IU and to my suprise it raised, not > lowered MY BP. > So now I'll ask my Dr. > > In this article: PMID: 17587727, they used vitamin D injections in a rat to > promote calcification. > " Ninety-six hours after the final vitamin D injection, the rats were killed > and aortas and their hearts were removed for histological and calcium > analyses. The data showed that phytate-treated rats had lower levels of > aortic calcium than placebo-treated rats. All groups had similar heart > calcium levels. " > > BTW, the IOM DRI Adequate Intake (AI) is 15 mcg (600 IU) > 70 yo. > > Regards > > Re: Calcium supplement? > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. > > And this means exactly what? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 My BMI is a little high. I don't worry it if she doesn't worry it. The advantage she has is practice. I can read thousands of articles but mostly they do not tell ME what to do for MY body. For every article that says do A there's another says do B. I keep those in context with her opinions. What I find is the claims don't fit me. I came to that 8 yrs ago. EG, Inre vitamin D: http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/ " Holick stands by this advice despite the fact that in February he was rebuked and forced to resign from the dermatology department at Boston University's medical school.[62] Part of the reason given was that his work is partly funded, and actively promoted, by the Indoor Tanning Association, an industry group with obvious financial interests. " Just to be safe, I'll get the blood test, but I'm not sure what I'll do if it's low because: Per Dr Vieth: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):575-9. Why the optimal requirement for Vitamin D3 is probably much higher than what is officially recommended for adults. Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathobiology, University of Toronto, and Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada M5G 1X5. rvieth@... The physiologic range for circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D; the measure of Vitamin D nutrient status] concentration in humans and other primates extends to beyond 200 nmol/L (>80 ng/mL). This biologic " normal " value is greater than current population norms for 25(OH)D. Concentrations of 25(OH)D that correlate with desirable effects extend to at least 70 nmol/L, with no obvious threshold. Randomized clinical trials using 20 mcg (800 IU) per day of Vitamin D show that this suppresses parathyroid hormone, preserves bone mineral density, prevents fractures, lowers blood pressure and improves balance. Calcium absorption from diet correlates with 25(OH)D in the normal range. Health effects of Vitamin D beyond osteoporosis are mostly supported by the circumstantial evidence of epidemiologic studies and laboratory research. These include prevention of cancer and the autoimmune diseases, insulin-dependent diabetes and multiple sclerosis. One mcg per day of Vitamin D(3) (cholecalciferol) increases circulating 25(OH)D by about 1 nmol/L (0.4 ng/mL). A recommended dietary allowance (RDA) is the long-term daily intake level that meets the total requirements for the nutrient by nearly all healthy individuals (it would presume no sunshine). If 70 nmol/L is regarded as a minimum desirable target 25(OH)D concentration, then current recommendations of 15 mcg per day do not meet the criterion of an RDA. " PMID: 15225842 That seems mixed up. I don't know what all that means, but I do understand " " Randomized clinical trials using 20 mcg (800 IU) per day of Vitamin D show that this suppresses parathyroid hormone, preserves bone mineral density, prevents fractures, lowers blood pressure and improves balance. " And I know I get about 1000 IU per day in diet and MV. Plus sunlight. So if 800 lowers BP, and I eat 1000 IU, it must be mine is as low as it can get from Vit D. But I've also tried an additional 800 IU and to my suprise it raised, not lowered MY BP. So now I'll ask my Dr. In this article: PMID: 17587727, they used vitamin D injections in a rat to promote calcification. " Ninety-six hours after the final vitamin D injection, the rats were killed and aortas and their hearts were removed for histological and calcium analyses. The data showed that phytate-treated rats had lower levels of aortic calcium than placebo-treated rats. All groups had similar heart calcium levels. " BTW, the IOM DRI Adequate Intake (AI) is 15 mcg (600 IU) > 70 yo. Regards Re: Calcium supplement? > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. And this means exactly what? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I know what you mean, but surely if you have a problem with one, you will search/find another that can help you. Problem I've had is they move away, retire, die, or their spouse dies and they quit practice to raise the kids (from the insurance). Recently my local internist moved to staff at MD . Regards ism Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: RE: Calcium supplement? Depends on the doc. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Steve And this means exactly what? > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hi Steve, The one time I tried labcorp, I went to the designated place and they had no idea who I was or what I wanted. The one lab that will do that, in my area is prohibitive in cost. As to Vit D, I'm going to assume that if mine is low, that is what has protected me from CVD. I can make that assumption based on the data so far. Of course, I get plenty of sun here. But my point is the latest comparison for Vit D3 and cancer leaves out the rest of the picture. Maybe, just maybe, the body is smart enough to control some diseases? I've got a bottle of 800's setting on the shelf right next to 40 - 50 other things that did not lower my BP, including pharmas. I think I'm as proactive as you, but I don't rely on articles (unless they're dated < 1980). I changed my own diet to one that lowered my BP, disgusted with medical results. I just don't blame the medical doctors for the problem. They follow an established protocol. Right or wrong, that is the accepted practice. When the RDA for vit D is changed in IOM, and I suspect it will to maybe 800 IU, then I'll believe the number. But understand RDA's are not the answer either. EG, the RDA for Thiamine should be higher for people who drink alcohol. There's no compensation in IOM for that. As we get older the absorption for the vitamins, minerals, aminos and fatty acids probably change. No consideration for that - all adults are categorized like over 65 yo. Probably we should be getting some DHA/EPA in case that pathway is failed. We know things like thyroid fail, we know people get ARMD, parkinson's, dementia, Alzheimer's and there is very little data out there to tell us what causes it or to prevent it. I must make a reasonable guess. So that's where I apply my study, and rely on the Dr to treat the things they're trained to treat, albeit a small part of the total. I've studied endocrinology, and the part in the books is great, but the part that's not in the books is not so great. Often times there are many sources making the same hormone, and I believe there are more hormones than one can put in a book. There are things called " ectopic " hormones which mean they don't know where it comes from, like they know not why I have HTN. There's indications that vit D has many hormonal properties, but that doesn't mean to me I should start taking a lot more Vit D, especially D3. Not until there is good experience. I want more than a serum level increase when I take more D3 - I want all the other hormones documented the changes, apoptosis, eg, MEASURED. That they cannot do at our level. We need a human intake model. Regards Re: Calcium supplement? > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of jwwright > > > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. > > And this means exactly what? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 In winter you sweat less therefore gain salt and bp to Goes up Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2008, at 5:21 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...> wrote: > As to following what my doctor says, I first took 4000 IU/day of > vitamin > D. I can order blood tests on my own and Labcorp reported that my > blood > levels of vitamin D at 4000 iu/day was 33 ng/mL with a lab reference > range of 32-100 ng/mL. Consequently, 4000 IU only got me to the bottom > end of the low range. I increased my intake to 7000 IU/day of D3 and > retested in the winter this time by requesting lab work from my > doctor. > My blood levels were now 63 ng/mL, a number I'm happy with and that he > was to. When I can, I take action and then present my efforts to my > doctor. I later retested at the end of summer after having spent many > many hours over weeks in the midday sun gardening and installing > landscaping on 2/3 acre lot. My blood levels in short sleeve shirts > and > sometimes shorts were still 63 ng/mL. One needs to get out there with > shorts only or less in order to get any real measurable vitamin D > conversion from sun level. I'm also at a higher latitude than man > evolved at, higher by far. I expect that my vitamin D levels were in > the teens or lower without supplementation. An issue no doctor has > ever > tested for several decades and it was only my proactive approach that > brought this deficiency to light. If your doctor isn't worried enough > to test, that doesn't mean your ok. > > As you can tell, I take a very very proactive approach to my health > care. I'm not a fan of the traditional assembly line approach to > medical practice and come fully informed to address my concerns. My > experiences it that if I see two doctors, I will get two different > opinions and if I see the same doctor two times in a row with more > than > 6 weeks between visits, I will also get two opinion. There are certain > doctors that make arrogant doctors appear saintlike, they are named > endocrinologists. If one is looking for doctor that will work with > you, > your best shot in my experiences and in the experiences I've read > about > from others is to see a D.O. They have much more " user friendly " > training. > > I have horror stories dealing with endocrinologists (where were evil > and > completely dishonest) and cardiologists (who didn't keep up and might > have killed me) as well as general practitioners. Some doctors are > only > informed about and interested in prescribing prescription drugs, even > well studied non-prescription items remain a mystery to them. If > there > are two options, a $4 prescription drug available from walmart and a > $200 latest and greatest that is no more effective, they will > prescribe > the most expensive. My general practices is to try to determine what > type of drug I might be prescribed beforehand and bring pricing > information and drug options to my appointment. This is not always > possible because there is a guessing factor involved. Then, if your > doctors wants to prescribe something you haven't prepared for, one > needs > to be ready to query your doctor in some detail as to options, > pricing, > side effects, etc. I also give my doctor guidance on how to prescribe > to limit my costs. For example, a blood pressure medication Toprol XL > is generic at 25 mg but non-generic at 50 and 100 mg. I needed 75 > mg/day. My directions were to prescribe 25 mg three times a day > which I > would take all at once. This resulted in the minimum insurance cost of > $7. When I was prescribed a statin I set the dosage indicating that I > would be cutting it in fourths to get the correct amount. This > provided > a 1 year supply at $10. Each time my doctor wrote as directed. If he > hadn't, I might be looking for a new doctor depending on his > justification. There are many doctors that don't do well with a > proactive patient that is trying to both to manage his health and his > costs. I expect a doctor to work with me like a paid adviser. I am > never never NEVER a patient (unless I get brought to a hospital > incapacitated - hasn't happened yet). I am a client/customer and my > medical advisers are similar to mechanics, brokers, bankers, etc. > Useful but not gods - and often guessing. > > I should mention that my blood pressure usually goes up as winter > begins > and comes down again in the spring. It's not exactly seasonal since it > varies by 2-4 months either way. My cardiologists and general > practitioners have no idea how to deal with this. I just adjust my > meds > up and down 25 mg at a time. I also sometimes have daily changes where > if I taken some caffeine in the morning, my blood pressure and pulse > rate will drop 10-20 points each for 4-8 hours then rebound. Sometimes > it happens without the caffeine but always happens with a small amount > of caffeine. I end up taking a non-timed release version of my blood > pressure meds some evenings to counteract this. None of doctors has a > clue why this is so either nor do they seem to know were to start to > figure it out. > > Steve > > jwwright wrote: > > > > > > My BMI is a little high. I don't worry it if she doesn't worry it. > > The advantage she has is practice. I can read thousands of > articles but > > mostly they do not tell ME what to do for MY body. > > For every article that says do A there's another says do B. > > I keep those in context with her opinions. > > > > What I find is the claims don't fit me. I came to that 8 yrs ago. > > > > EG, Inre vitamin D: > > http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/ > > <http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/> > > > > " Holick stands by this advice despite the fact that in February he > was > > rebuked and forced to resign from the dermatology department at > Boston > > University's medical school.[62] Part of the reason given was that > his work > > is partly funded, and actively promoted, by the Indoor Tanning > Association, > > an industry group with obvious financial interests. " > > > > Just to be safe, I'll get the blood test, but I'm not sure what > I'll do if > > it's low because: > > > > Per Dr Vieth: > > J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):575-9. > > Why the optimal requirement for Vitamin D3 is probably much higher > than > > what is officially recommended for adults. > > > > Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathobiology, University of > > Toronto, and Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Mount Sinai > Hospital, > > Toronto, Canada M5G 1X5. rvieth@... > > <mailto:rvieth%40mtsinai.on.ca> > > > > The physiologic range for circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 > [25(OH)D; the > > measure of Vitamin D nutrient status] concentration in humans and > other > > primates extends to beyond 200 nmol/L (>80 ng/mL). This biologic > " normal " > > value is greater than current population norms for 25(OH)D. > Concentrations > > of 25(OH)D that correlate with desirable effects extend to at > least 70 > > nmol/L, with no obvious threshold. Randomized clinical trials > using 20 mcg > > (800 IU) per day of Vitamin D show that this suppresses > parathyroid hormone, > > preserves bone mineral density, prevents fractures, lowers blood > pressure > > and improves balance. Calcium absorption from diet correlates with > 25(OH)D > > in the normal range. Health effects of Vitamin D beyond > osteoporosis are > > mostly supported by the circumstantial evidence of epidemiologic > studies and > > laboratory research. These include prevention of cancer and the > autoimmune > > diseases, insulin-dependent diabetes and multiple sclerosis. One > mcg per day > > of Vitamin D(3) (cholecalciferol) increases circulating 25(OH)D by > about 1 > > nmol/L (0.4 ng/mL). A recommended dietary allowance (RDA) is the > long-term > > daily intake level that meets the total requirements for the > nutrient by > > nearly all healthy individuals (it would presume no sunshine). If > 70 nmol/L > > is regarded as a minimum desirable target 25(OH)D concentration, > then > > current recommendations of 15 mcg per day do not meet the > criterion of an > > RDA. " PMID: 15225842 > > > > That seems mixed up. I don't know what all that means, but I do > understand " > > " Randomized clinical trials using 20 mcg (800 IU) per day of > Vitamin D show > > that this suppresses parathyroid hormone, preserves bone mineral > density, > > prevents fractures, lowers blood pressure and improves balance. " > > > > And I know I get about 1000 IU per day in diet and MV. Plus > sunlight. So if > > 800 lowers BP, and I eat 1000 IU, it must be mine is as low as it > can get > > from Vit D. > > But I've also tried an additional 800 IU and to my suprise it > raised, not > > lowered MY BP. > > So now I'll ask my Dr. > > > > In this article: PMID: 17587727, they used vitamin D injections in > a rat to > > promote calcification. > > " Ninety-six hours after the final vitamin D injection, the rats > were killed > > and aortas and their hearts were removed for histological and > calcium > > analyses. The data showed that phytate-treated rats had lower > levels of > > aortic calcium than placebo-treated rats. All groups had similar > heart > > calcium levels. " > > > > BTW, the IOM DRI Adequate Intake (AI) is 15 mcg (600 IU) > 70 yo. > > > > Regards > > > > Re: Calcium supplement? > > > > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40> > > > <mailto:hyperaldosteronism%40>] On Behalf Of > jwwright > > > > > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. > > > > And this means exactly what? > > -- > > Steve - dudescholar4@... > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > > " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march > to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford > font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: #628c2a; > font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text- > decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: > underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: > 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: > 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Please tell your dr what u r doing. Suggest you ask him is decreasing by 25 my every 2 wkd as you watch np And at Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11, 2008, at 12:34 PM, mmcandmcc <mmcandmcc@...> wrote: > Great advice! I've been keeping careful records since my > dissapionting visit to Cleveland Clinic. I have noticed I get what > feels like a hangover (no joke) the morning after I indulge and eat > high salt bedtime snack or high salt dinner. > > > > > > > > I just stopped it. Within five days, I was having difficulty > walking > > because of the water retention. That's when I started HCTZ. Going > off > > spiro cold turkey was traumatic for me. I cried at the drop of a > hat for > > about three weeks. > > > > Unless you have to go off of it for testing, I would recommend that > you > > gradually ease downward on spiro. I keep track of my food (and > sodium) > > consumption in FitDay. www.fitday.com I think the program is > about $30 or > > you can use the online version free. Without carefully-kept > records, I'd > > have no idea what is associated with what. For example, according > to my > > records, I ate about 1,500 mg Na last Friday and again on > Saturday. By > > Sunday, I was weak, sweating and shaky. Since nothing else > changed, I have > > to associate that change in my health with the sodium last week. > Last > > Saturday I was feeling almost normal. > > > > Val > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of mmcandmcc > > > > > > Hi Val, > > > > When you went off the Spiro did you taper off or just quit? What > > effects did you notice? The reason I ask, is that I've taken my > does > > from 200 to 150 to 100 now and have taken Dr. Grimms advice about > > diet and realized that if I stay on a way low sodium diet my BP is > > normal. I want to get off the Spiro so bad and ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 U also need to tell your team you don't feel well Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Valarie <val@...> wrote: > With all due respect, if I followed what my Dr. said, I'd still be > on HCTZ, Actos, Fosamax --- or dead. Some doctors are current with > their reading and others haven't read anything new in years. My > Harvard-trained primary had never heard of PA. > > Val > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism > ] On Behalf Of jwwright > > Best advice, IMO, is follow what your Dr says. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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