RE: Was Wow! now probiotics

[Guest guest]

Reading all the latest series of posts, I am so impressed and humbled by everyone's experience and knowledge. I have been trying to heal my son for 7 years (his whole life!) and still feel like I am at the beginning of understanding - lots of time and money wasted on dead-ends.

We used EM for a while, and I was on the EM list for a while. They and people I know claim wondrous things for it, but I have to say that I didn't notice much of anything at all for our family, and we stopped using it because it was somewhat of a hassle to pour out of the huge gallon boxes that it comes in. One thing I wonder is if all probiotics need to have to right terrain to really work their magic? Is there a timing issue? Perhaps the EM or any other probiotic needs the gut to be started on the healing path first. I have no idea. That said, I highly respect the EM folks (I think Vinny Pinto was at the WAPF conference in November but I did not get to hear his talk), it seems like they have integrity. It was expensive, though, but so is the Bio-Kult.

I know that Bio-Kult has maltodextrin in it also - but since it is supposed to be corn-free, it must be made from something else? Does anyone know? Someone at the conference asked Dr. Natasha about the maltodextrin and she said it had not been a problem....

On the topic of compiling a summary list of all the different healing diets out there, I just wanted to ask if SCD and GAPS should be grouped together? The diet is the same (except perhaps the approach to dairy, and a few SCD oddities like saying sacharine is okay!), but the books focus on different conditions (SCD for Crohn's, IBS, etc. and GAPS for autism, ADHD, asthma, etc.).

[ ] Re: Wow! This should be interesting. (very long response)

Hi, ,Looking back over my post, I know I've left out lots of things. It's hard to fit nine years experience into one post! =-)We've done probiotics since November 1998, almost constantly. Here again, we've tried most of the commercially available ones. The first one we tried was by Nature's Way, was scoopable, and had maltodextrin in it. After using it for two months, I found out the maltodextrin was from corn and nearly had a stroke since we knew corn was a major problem. It was from that point I knew I had a lot to learn. Some of the ones that I can remember we've tried are: DDS Labs, Custom Probiotics, Culturelle, Florastor, ThreeLac, Jarrow, Enzymatic Therapy Pearls, American Health (not sure about the name - it is a liquid), Custom Probiotics, Garden of Life, CocoBiotic. We had various reactions to these, some brought die-off without continued improvements, some nothing. We are currently using VSL-3 (supposed to also help with oxalates, another issue for us) and the Metagenics brand probiotics. These seem to be keeping the my nine-year old's bacterial smell down, but haven't seen any improvement in the bowel distension or stool consistency.I haven't heard of Effective Microorganisms - I'll be off on a Google search tonight! I would also like to try Dr. -McBride's probiotic.Looking forward to learning with you,

..

[Guest guest]

I think what Dr. McBride said about the maltodextrin is that it was the medium

the bacteria lived on. I was satisfied with her answer, but I don't know if everyone

else was/is.

The only thing about grouping SCD and GAPS is that GAPS goes a bit further.

There are 4 parts really (according to her talk): 1) diet - SCD-based, 2) detoxifying,

3) therapuetic level probiotic and 4) addressing nutritional deficiencies.

I don't know enough about SCD to make a determination if there is enough

similarities in these approaches. My instinct says that SCD is simply a diet change,

but I could be wrong.

Katy

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ViadroSent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:02 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Was Wow! now probiotics

Reading all the latest series of posts, I am so impressed and humbled by everyone's experience and knowledge. I have been trying to heal my son for 7 years (his whole life!) and still feel like I am at the beginning of understanding - lots of time and money wasted on dead-ends.

We used EM for a while, and I was on the EM list for a while. They and people I know claim wondrous things for it, but I have to say that I didn't notice much of anything at all for our family, and we stopped using it because it was somewhat of a hassle to pour out of the huge gallon boxes that it comes in. One thing I wonder is if all probiotics need to have to right terrain to really work their magic? Is there a timing issue? Perhaps the EM or any other probiotic needs the gut to be started on the healing path first. I have no idea. That said, I highly respect the EM folks (I think Vinny Pinto was at the WAPF conference in November but I did not get to hear his talk), it seems like they have integrity. It was expensive, though, but so is the Bio-Kult.

I know that Bio-Kult has maltodextrin in it also - but since it is supposed to be corn-free, it must be made from something else? Does anyone know? Someone at the conference asked Dr. Natasha about the maltodextrin and she said it had not been a problem....

On the topic of compiling a summary list of all the different healing diets out there, I just wanted to ask if SCD and GAPS should be grouped together? The diet is the same (except perhaps the approach to dairy, and a few SCD oddities like saying sacharine is okay!), but the books focus on different conditions (SCD for Crohn's, IBS, etc. and GAPS for autism, ADHD, asthma, etc.).

[ ] Re: Wow! This should be interesting. (very long response)

Hi, ,Looking back over my post, I know I've left out lots of things. It's hard to fit nine years experience into one post! =-)We've done probiotics since November 1998, almost constantly. Here again, we've tried most of the commercially available ones. The first one we tried was by Nature's Way, was scoopable, and had maltodextrin in it. After using it for two months, I found out the maltodextrin was from corn and nearly had a stroke since we knew corn was a major problem. It was from that point I knew I had a lot to learn. Some of the ones that I can remember we've tried are: DDS Labs, Custom Probiotics, Culturelle, Florastor, ThreeLac, Jarrow, Enzymatic Therapy Pearls, American Health (not sure about the name - it is a liquid), Custom Probiotics, Garden of Life, CocoBiotic. We had various reactions to these, some brought die-off without continued improvements, some nothing. We are currently using VSL-3 (supposed to also help with oxalates, another issue for us) and the Metagenics brand probiotics. These seem to be keeping the my nine-year old's bacterial smell down, but haven't seen any improvement in the bowel distension or stool consistency.I haven't heard of Effective Microorganisms - I'll be off on a Google search tonight! I would also like to try Dr. -McBride's probiotic.Looking forward to learning with you,

..

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[Guest guest]

Point well taken about GAPS going further. Let's keep them separate!

I have not even begun to think about points #2 and #4 in your list - but it's starting to seem like a juicer is going to be necessary!

RE: [ ] Was Wow! now probiotics

The only thing about grouping SCD and GAPS is that GAPS goes a bit further.

There are 4 parts really (according to her talk): 1) diet - SCD-based, 2) detoxifying,

3) therapuetic level probiotic and 4) addressing nutritional deficiencies.

I don't know enough about SCD to make a determination if there is enough

similarities in these approaches. My instinct says that SCD is simply a diet change,

but I could be wrong.

Katy

..

[Guest guest]

,

Your question re terrain I think is very

apropos. So for instance in the following scenario:

**Ms X isn’t on the GAPS diet (and

just for sake of simplicity lets say this is the correct diet for her) and so

is continuing to use disaccharides which supposedly feed the troublesome

strains of gut flora

**But Ms X is taking a probiotic such as EM,

or biokult or Garden of Life, etc.

Is this going to fail to resolve the issue

because the new healthier flora doesn’t have a chance to colonize because

MS X is still feeding the troublesome critters?

OR will this work but just take longer

than if she was on the GAPS diet?

And if GAPS is the right diet, will it

eventually work anyway, but just take longer even if she doesn’t take a

probiotic, or doesn’t take a multiple strain one like biokult or EM?

And if the double sugars feed the

troublesome bacteria don’t they feed the helpful ones too? Guess I

better finish reading Dr. Natasha’s book, maybe she answers all these

questions.

As for the cost, if you brew your own EM from

the mother culture that you buy, I think EM is probably the cheapest way to go.

Like most things though decreasing costs, increases the time and prep

needed. As for the inconvenience, I’m not sure what you mean about

pouring from a one gallon jug as I think the 1 gallon and 5 gallon cubitainers (at

least the ones from SCD) come with a handy on-off spigot—I have 5 gallons

of the stuff in my basement on tap, I just open the tap and have a lovely little

“bug juice” cocktail. I may be a bit weird but I like to

drink the stuff straight or with several raw egg yolks mixed in. But it

is not going to go over very big with kids, that’s for sure.

--

Pellicer

@...

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Viadro

Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007

7:02 PM

To:

Subject: RE: [ ] Was

Wow! now probiotics

Reading all the latest series of posts, I am so impressed and humbled

by everyone's experience and knowledge. I have been trying to heal my son for 7

years (his whole life!) and still feel like I am at the beginning of

understanding - lots of time and money wasted on dead-ends.

We used EM for a while, and I was on the EM list for a while. They and

people I know claim wondrous things for it, but I have to say that I didn't

notice much of anything at all for our family, and we stopped using it because

it was somewhat of a hassle to pour out of the huge gallon boxes that it comes

in. One thing I wonder is if all probiotics need to have to right terrain

to really work their magic? Is there a timing issue? Perhaps the EM or any

other probiotic needs the gut to be started on the healing path first. I have

no idea. That said, I highly respect the EM folks (I think Vinny Pinto was at

the WAPF conference in November but I did not get to hear his talk), it seems

like they have integrity. It was expensive, though, but so is the Bio-Kult.

I know that Bio-Kult has maltodextrin in it also - but since it is

supposed to be corn-free, it must be made from something else? Does anyone

know? Someone at the conference asked Dr. Natasha about the maltodextrin and

she said it had not been a problem....

On the topic of compiling a summary list of all the different healing

diets out there, I just wanted to ask if SCD and GAPS should be grouped

together? The diet is the same (except perhaps the approach to dairy, and a few

SCD oddities like saying sacharine is okay!), but the books focus on different

conditions (SCD for Crohn's, IBS, etc. and GAPS for autism, ADHD, asthma,

etc.).

[Guest guest]

About brewing EM: I got the impression from the EM list that home brewing was kind of difficult, that it was very temperature sensitive and needed to be extremely precise - it sounded so daunting that I never felt able to attempt it. It seemed like you could brew "something" but it might not end up being reliably EM.

My kids (and I) didn't mind drinking the EM. But the part about the containers/packaging being a barrier was that it's so easy to pop a probiotic capsule out of a bottle and have someone swallow it, but having to turn the cardboard box upside down and open the spigot and pour it required several additional steps (getting out cups, measuring, pouring carefully, etc.) that (believe it or not) take extra time (in the morning when we're in a rush to get to school, for example) that I just didn't have.

RE: [ ] Was Wow! now probiotics

As for the cost, if you brew your own EM from the mother culture that you buy, I think EM is probably the cheapest way to go. Like most things though decreasing costs, increases the time and prep needed. As for the inconvenience, I’m not sure what you mean about pouring from a one gallon jug as I think the 1 gallon and 5 gallon cubitainers (at least the ones from SCD) come with a handy on-off spigot—I have 5 gallons of the stuff in my basement on tap, I just open the tap and have a lovely little “bug juice” cocktail. I may be a bit weird but I like to drink the stuff straight or with several raw egg yolks mixed in. But it is not going to go over very big with kids, that’s for sure.

--

..

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I’m not brewing it currently due to

a recent move and just haven’t gotten set back up. But I did previously

and didn’t find it daunting at all—I just used old 2 liter pop

bottles to brew in and a styrofoam cooler with a lightbulb on a dimmer switch

in a hole in the top for heat and a digital thermometer. Worked slick.

As for pouring, I put some EM in an empty

wine sized bottle and then use a rubber cork and vacuvin pump to keep it

aerobic. Just uncork it. Pour what you need and pump the cork a couple times

and al sealed up aerobically. My mother-in-law is not a great pill

swallower, so her caregiver just gives her this in some grape grape juice, works

great.

Sounds like what you’re doing is

working great but just thought I’d let people know my system.

I do plan on starting up brewing the stuff

again, when I find a chunk of time to get my system out of storage.

Cheers,

Pellicer

@...

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Viadro

Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007

7:41 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Was

Wow! now probiotics

About brewing EM: I got the impression from the EM list that home

brewing was kind of difficult, that it was very temperature sensitive and

needed to be extremely precise - it sounded so daunting that I never felt able

to attempt it. It seemed like you could brew " something " but it might

not end up being reliably EM.

My kids (and I) didn't mind drinking the EM. But the part about the

containers/packaging being a barrier was that it's so easy to pop a

probiotic capsule out of a bottle and have someone swallow it, but having to

turn the cardboard box upside down and open the spigot and pour it required

several additional steps (getting out cups, measuring, pouring carefully, etc.)

that (believe it or not) take extra time (in the morning when we're in a rush to

get to school, for example) that I just didn't have.

RE:

[ ] Was Wow! now probiotics

As for the cost, if you brew your own EM from the mother culture

that you buy, I think EM is probably the cheapest way to go. Like most

things though decreasing costs, increases the time and prep needed. As

for the inconvenience, Im not sure what you mean about pouring from a one

gallon jug as I think the 1 gallon and 5 gallon cubitainers (at least the

ones from SCD) come with a handy on-off spigotI have 5 gallons of the stuff in

my basement on tap, I just open the tap and have a lovely little bug

juice cocktail. I may be a bit weird but I like to drink the stuff

straight or with several raw egg yolks mixed in. But it is not going to

go over very big with kids, thats for sure.

--

..