Re: Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

[Guest guest]

When my son was younger, I would verbalize what I thought he was feeling, as soon as he started displaying any signs of aggitation or upset. He used to meltdown pretty quickly/easily and it could be because he was sad/mad/frustrated/sensory-overloaded/anxious/etc... I started realizing there could be a host of problems, but they always manifested in basically one way (meltdown.) So I started being his "mouth" and saying things like "You are frustrated right now because it's time to go to bed and you aren't ready" or "You are sad because Poppy has to leave and you don't want him to." He didn't respond or maybe even necessarily appreciate what I was doing, but eventually as he got older, instead of saying what I thought was wrong, if he started to

get upset, I'd say "You need to use your words to tell me what's wrong" and then I'd hear almost verbatim what I used to say to him. He'd only usually say "mad" to describe his feeling, but often times it sounded more like anxiety or sadness but the nuances of feelings like that are hard for him to ascertain. Regardless, he was able to use his words to tell me what's bothering him and hopefully, that skill is something he can use to advocate for himself when he's out in the world with me or someone who knows him well.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: <doyourecycle@...>Aspergers Treatment <Aspergers Treatment >Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 4:09:08 PMSubject: ( ) Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated

[Guest guest]

First of all, does he get regular exercise? I found that ever since high school, when I started running track, I had an easier time managing my anger. My guess is that it has to do with the endorphin release and elevated levels of serotonin.

On 6/22/10 5:09 PM, " " <doyourecycle@...> wrote:

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated 

[Guest guest]

Some kids are so impulsive they can't manage emotions. They

go from 0 to 100 so quick. Some kids like this do so much better

in a school that has a slower pace and he has a chance to talk

through feelings. But that is hard to come by for many children.

You may ask for a Functional Behavioral Assessment to understand

what the triggers are for your son at school. I would ask for this in writing to

the child study team before even if you think they

will reject it. This way if some incident happens you have it

in writing that this is tied to his AS.

If you want him to take breaks and use break cards practice

at home. Have him earns points toward some reasonable

price item and practice practice at home when he is not

too mad. Say to him when he is calm, lets practice

that you are mad, and ask me for a break. Tell him

he gets points for this when he practices and more

if he when he is mad he uses it at home. You will

be shaping the behavior you want.

It took 2 months to shape open behavior like this for us.

It is a time consuming process, but I find if this is

your top priority it is worth it.

Pam

>

> Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they

> are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says

> he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up

> to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the

> time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown.

> How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask

> for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing

> miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada,

> nothing, to offer my boy[?] This could be for home, but the problem is always

> at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated[?]

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Pamela <susanonderko@...> wrote:

 

Some kids are so impulsive they can't manage emotions. Theygo from 0 to 100 so quick. Some kids like this do so much better in a school that has a slower pace and he has a chance to talkthrough feelings. But that is hard to come by for many children.

You may ask for a Functional Behavioral Assessment to understandwhat the triggers are for your son at school. I would ask for this in writing to the child study team before even if you think theywill reject it. This way if some incident happens you have it

in writing that this is tied to his AS. ***Help me here.***In our district, and at our school, for an FBA the team has to define a behavior they will observe. A specific behavior, not just a general observation of the child. They say that one or two incidents is not enough to warrant an FBA. How do you break through that mentality??

If you want him to take breaks and use break cards practiceat home. He's just gotten to the point where he is embarrased to stand out in front of his peers, so he won't use a card at school. Have him earns points toward some reasonable

price item and practice practice at home when he is nottoo mad. Say to him when he is calm, lets practicethat you are mad, and ask me for a break. Tell him he gets points for this when he practices and more

if he when he is mad he uses it at home. I like this and would like to have his teachers use this at school. You willbe shaping the behavior you want. It took 2 months to shape open behavior like this for us.

It is a time consuming process, but I find if this isyour top priority it is worth it. Pam

>> Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they> are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says> he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up

> to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the> time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown.> How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask

> for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing> miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada,> nothing, to offer my boy[?] This could be for home, but the problem is always

> at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated[?]>

[Guest guest]

I am reading a book called " the Explosive Child " which addresses this very thing

of preventing a meltdown. Inflexible, easily frustrated children are prone to

melting down and it can be prevented with a different approach.

My son's school has failed him miserably too. My pscyhologist thinks I should

not send him back

Miranda

>

> Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they

> are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says

> he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up

> to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the

> time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown.

> How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask

> for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing

> miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada,

> nothing, to offer my boy[?] This could be for home, but the problem is always

> at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated[?]

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I just posted two books the other day in another post. I would use something like that to start to teach him to learn to identify his triggers. You could also have him work on making a list - depending on if he can remember afterward what was happening before or during.

As for the school, it is helpful to ask the school to provide an autism consultant to come in and do a functional behavior assessment. This can identify the triggers for you/him and in that way, you can teach him to recognize these things or teach him coping skills for these areas of stress. This is probably the best idea of them all since a 3rd party can observe and see many triggers that you or he and teacher might be missing. When we had one done years ago in Middle school for my ds, I was surprised at how much information they noted - things that were problems that I didn't realize were problems. There were so many. So then next, they had to use the FBA to write a behavior plan and within that structure, it can address what you are asking for. What to do before he starts stressing out, teaching him to recognize things, what to do after it's too late to help him de-stress, etc.

I love how the school hands out a card and does not even connect that it will not work for your ds. We often had that problem - having them apply the wrong method because that's what they do for that situation. It did not occur to them to try something else or make sure this works for that particular child. One teacher was big about rating how one is feeling throughout the day. Needless to say, my ds was not big on that and refused to do it. That was just not how he would work. He couldn't identify his feelings and that was not part of the plan! lol. He has to rate his feelings - that is how it works. lol. Another kid with HFA or AS might just do great with that. But for him, it was just frustrating him for no good reason. I had to finally ask them to stop doing it.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated

[Guest guest]

THE problem with the FBA is that the school does them wtih blinders on. They target ONE behavior to observe and they only look to observe THAT sole behavior.

 

Are you saying that when your son had one done, they observed him as a whole person to look for ANY type of problematic behaviors or to look for triggers?

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

Well, I just posted two books the other day in another post.  I would use something like that to start to teach him to learn to identify his triggers.  You could also have him work on making a list - depending on if he can remember afterward what was happening before or during. 

As for the school, it is helpful to ask the school to provide an autism consultant to come in and do a functional behavior assessment.  This can identify the triggers for you/him and in that way, you can teach him to recognize these things or teach him coping skills for these areas of stress.  This is probably the best idea of them all since a 3rd party can observe and see many triggers that you or he and teacher might be missing.  When we had one done years ago in Middle school for my ds, I was surprised at how much information they noted - things that were problems that I didn't realize were problems.  There were so many.  So then next, they had to use the FBA to write a behavior plan and within that structure, it can address what you are asking for.  What to do before he starts stressing out, teaching him to recognize things, what to do after it's too late to help him de-stress, etc. 

I love how the school hands out a card and does not even connect that it will not work for your ds.  We often had that problem - having them apply the wrong method because that's what they do for that situation.  It did not occur to them to try something else or make sure this works for that particular child.  One teacher was big about rating how one is feeling throughout the day.  Needless to say, my ds was not big on that and refused to do it.  That was just not how he would work.  He couldn't identify his feelings and that was not part of the plan!  lol.  He has to rate his feelings - that is how it works.  lol.  Another kid with HFA or AS might just do great with that.  But for him, it was just frustrating him for no good reason.   I had to finally ask them to stop doing it.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

 

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated 

[Guest guest]

Yes, in the FBA they did on my ds, they came and observed him in all classes and between classes and lunch time, etc. They noted all problems and wrote a report listing everything.

Unless you look at the whole child through the whole day, on various dates, you will not get a good idea of how he works, why he's having problems and what those problems are. If you zero in on the problem, it means you are focusing on a problem that is probably causing "THEM" problems. But there may be a lot of problems throughout the day and some may bother nobody else but him personally. I can see having an FBA done because there is one behavior causing problems. But how else can you do an FBA if you don't observe the child in all environments, throughout the day - to understand what is making him do what he's doing. In doing that, you are bound to see a number of things causing problems.

For instance, if a child is lashing out "for no reason", you'd do an FBA to find out why. But in finding out why, you'd see him through the whole day, on several days, to see what causes him to lash out. It may be a number of things. And you are bound to see other things going on for that child that are not causing him to lash out yet but are causing him stress.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated

[Guest guest]

,

First, I would ask to see the written policy that states this is the only way an FBA is done. You should look up the actual IDEA law where it says something like....whenever the child's behavior impedes his learning or the learning of others....and it doesn't say only one specific behavior at a time nor does the law say you have to first define one specific behavior. Check out what you state law says regarding FBA as well, as it should be similar to the IDEA. I would ask to see this policy of theirs in writing. I bet it isn't in writing other than someone's idea of what "should" happen. But that doesn't make it consistent with the law. So I would push it from that end. Always get statements in writing.

***Help me here.***In our district, and at our school, for an FBA the team has to define a behavior they will observe. A specific behavior, not just a general observation of the child. They say that one or two incidents is not enough to warrant an FBA. How do you break through that mentality??

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Pamela <susanonderko > wrote:

Some kids are so impulsive they can't manage emotions. They

go from 0 to 100 so quick. Some kids like this do so much better

in a school that has a slower pace and he has a chance to talk

through feelings. But that is hard to come by for many children.

You may ask for a Functional Behavioral Assessment to understand

what the triggers are for your son at school. I would ask for this in writing to the child study team before even if you think they

will reject it. This way if some incident happens you have it

in writing that this is tied to his AS. ***Help me here.***In our district, and at our school, for an FBA the team has to define a behavior they will observe. A specific behavior, not just a general observation of the child. They say that one or two incidents is not enough to warrant an FBA. How do you break through that mentality??

If you want him to take breaks and use break cards practice

at home. He's just gotten to the point where he is embarrased to stand out in front of his peers, so he won't use a card at school. Have him earns points toward some reasonable

price item and practice practice at home when he is not

too mad. Say to him when he is calm, lets practice

that you are mad, and ask me for a break. Tell him

he gets points for this when he practices and more

if he when he is mad he uses it at home. I like this and would like to have his teachers use this at school. You will

be shaping the behavior you want.

It took 2 months to shape open behavior like this for us.

It is a time consuming process, but I find if this is

your top priority it is worth it.

Pam

>

> Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they

> are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says

> he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up

> to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the

> time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown.

> How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask

> for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing

> miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada,

> nothing, to offer my boy[?] This could be for home, but the problem is always

> at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated[?]

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like the problem is the school/school system. IMHO, they should observe

him, mark down all problem behaviors (as well as what happened before and after

it), and then work on decreasing those behaviors through some system of rewards.

If you can afford it, you might consider paying someone outside the school

system to do it right.

>

> > Well, I just posted two books the other day in another post. I would use

> > something like that to start to teach him to learn to identify his

> > triggers. You could also have him work on making a list - depending on if

> > he can remember afterward what was happening before or during.

> >

> > As for the school, it is helpful to ask the school to provide an autism

> > consultant to come in and do a functional behavior assessment. This can

> > identify the triggers for you/him and in that way, you can teach him to

> > recognize these things or teach him coping skills for these areas of

> > stress. This is probably the best idea of them all since a 3rd party can

> > observe and see many triggers that you or he and teacher might be missing.

> > When we had one done years ago in Middle school for my ds, I was surprised

> > at how much information they noted - things that were problems that I didn't

> > realize were problems. There were so many. So then next, they had to use

> > the FBA to write a behavior plan and within that structure, it can address

> > what you are asking for. What to do before he starts stressing out,

> > teaching him to recognize things, what to do after it's too late to help him

> > de-stress, etc.

> >

> > I love how the school hands out a card and does not even connect that it

> > will not work for your ds. We often had that problem - having them apply

> > the wrong method because that's what they do for that situation. It did not

> > occur to them to try something else or make sure this works for that

> > particular child. One teacher was big about rating how one is feeling

> > throughout the day. Needless to say, my ds was not big on that and refused

> > to do it. That was just not how he would work. He couldn't identify his

> > feelings and that was not part of the plan! lol. He has to rate his

> > feelings - that is how it works. lol. Another kid with HFA or AS might

> > just do great with that. But for him, it was just frustrating him for no

> > good reason. I had to finally ask them to stop doing it.

> >

> >

> > Roxanna

> > *Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.*

> >

> >

> > ( ) Need help w/ 9 year old son and his anger

> >

> >

> > Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that

> > they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son

> > says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't

> > go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean,

> > the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a

> > meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he

> > can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school

> > failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada,

> > nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always

> > at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You may want to look into the Alert Program. An occupational therapist should supervise the implementation of this program. Pam

In a message dated 6/22/2010 5:10:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, doyourecycle@... writes:

Have you had any success in helping your child be able to identify that they are upset before it's too far gone? Is it a word a technique??? My son says he won't use a break card at school as he's already too mad and won't go up to show the teacher. As far as the emotion, do you know what i mean, the time when they first feel some twinge of anger--but way before a meltdown. How can I help my son identify that feeling inside him so that he can ask for help or a break? This is a major issue and I see the school failing miserably and wonder what I can suggest since they have zippo, nada, nothing, to offer my boy This could be for home, but the problem is always at school. Any help deeeeeeeeeply appreciated