temper tantroms approximately 90 minutes after enzymes...

[Guest guest]

what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or so

after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a day and

one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after the

peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months, then

switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about five or

six days ago.

Viola

[Guest guest]

>

> what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or

so

> after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a day

and

> one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after the

> peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

>

> We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months, then

> switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

> hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about five or

> six days ago.

>

> Viola

>

I have been noticing the same thing with hyperness and aggression 90

minutes after teh trienza/peptizyd. We started 5 days ago and seem to

be having the same issues. I keep reading everywhere to find out and

it seems to happen to some kids. Definitely mine. I just started on

this board and really appreciate everyone's input. I hope it gets

better for you soon. Keep us posted. I am holding out for the 3 week

marker with high hopes:).

Tammy

[Guest guest]

>

> what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or so

> after peptizyde and digest.

If these contain papain or bromelain, try enzymes without those

ingredients. Some children don't tolerate them.

>>it seems to happen after the

> peptizyde.

Try AFP Peptizyde.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hi Viola

I work for Enzymedica's education department. Digest doesn't contain

any bromelain or papain. Because it seems to be happening after the

peptizyde I would stop taking that and see how it works out or try

switching to the AFP Peptizyde like Dana suggested because it does not

contain any Papain. BUT if it continues to happen, well let's take it

one step at a time. I was thinking high amounts of protease can

sometimes bother both kids AND adults stomachs. Process of elimination

is what I would do. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Alessandra

[Guest guest]

Another question I had - wouldn't I see that he's having stomach pain if it was

the papain? I think that is the one I was giving him - and I do have the AFP

too, so if that's right, I will try the switch.

Thanks again for responding and giving me some ideas!

Viola

Alessandra <milagros205@...> wrote:

Hi Viola

I work for Enzymedica's education department. Digest doesn't contain

any bromelain or papain. Because it seems to be happening after the

peptizyde I would stop taking that and see how it works out or try

switching to the AFP Peptizyde like Dana suggested because it does not

contain any Papain. BUT if it continues to happen, well let's take it

one step at a time. I was thinking high amounts of protease can

sometimes bother both kids AND adults stomachs. Process of elimination

is what I would do. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Alessandra

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hi Viola

It could show up any way a food allergy would show up. Stomach pains,

rashes, headaches. Papain is actually a really soothing enzyme. BUT if

they don't tolerate it well, maybe that causes him to be irritable.

Alessandra

[Guest guest]

Hi

Even though I've been reading here for five or six years this is my

first post to the list. The bit about 90 minutes struck a chord with us,

because it's something we always look out for with our son. In fact we

used to see lots of problems with our son at 30 minutes and then at

about 90 minutes after eating. The kinds of things we saw were that at

30 minutes he would start rocking from side to side and get very stimmy

for a few minutes, at 90 minutes he would have a period of manic

laughter and be very hyper for a few minutes, then it would pass as if

nothing had happened. We changed the enzymes and foods around but we

still got these episodes, and some combinations were worse than others,

so we figured that for our son, since it happened with or without

enzymes it was the process of digestion itself that was causing it to

occur.

We got a clue about the digestion possibility from a paragraph in

newsletter about probiotics

( <http://www.bio-kult.com/newsletter/Newsletter4.pdf>

http://www.bio-kult.com/newsletter/Newsletter4.pdf ) which indicated:

" Transit Time

When you eat, food is masticated in the mouth and mixed with alkaline

saliva. This food bolus then passes into the stomach, where it mixes

with the stomach juices and is churned around by the stomach muscle,

much like in a washing machine. This liquid part of the mixture is

called chyme, and 50% of this leaves the stomach 30 minutes after

eating. "

We believe that the 30 minute event was to do with the chyme, and that

perhaps at 90 minutes the rest of the food leaves our son's stomach

giving rise to another period of hyperactivity. Possibly an effect of a

leaky gut!

Last year when our son was eating nuts as part of the SCD diet, he would

have a really hard time at 30 minutes and 90 minutes with the meals that

contained nuts and it was always worse if enzymes had been given. When

we started to try the Low Oxalate Diet, taking the nuts out reduced the

intensity of the events, so he did less rocking at 30 minutes and was

less stimmy and hyper at 90 minutes. We were also able to reintroduce

the enzymes. Last year we also began to increase his Biotin to deal with

the yeast problems he had, that also seems to have reduced the

intensity of the events.

Nowadays he usually has a period of blinking and finger flicking 30

minutes after he has eaten and is a bit more stimmy after 90 minutes,

though not so intense that anyone else apart from us would notice it

happening. We've even been able to travel on the train and underground

again in the last few months (after eight years) without having the

worry about the hyperness episodes.

Hope this helps

Sunil

"

</message/113247;_ylc=X3oD

MTJzanVpdmhzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzMyOTc1MzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2

BG1zZ0lkAzExMzI0NwRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDEwMjMy> temper

tantroms approximately 90 minutes after enzymes...

Posted by: " viola062003 " <mailto:viola062003@...?Subject=

Re%3Atemper%20tantroms%20approximately%2090%20minutes%20after%20enzymes%

2E%2E%2E> viola062003@...

<viola062003> viola062003

Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:41 pm (PDT)

what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or so

after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a day and

one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after the

peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ?? "

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post - it does help. This could be what I'm seeing, as my son

has a yeast problem and had a very, very leaky gut, which is much better than it

used to be - but still needs help. Funny, I started him back on biotin in the

last week for the yeast issues. I hope it helps here. I will also pay closer

attention to the digestion issue and see if that could be what I'm seeing.

I thought the 90 minutes was kind of weird.....I'm glad you responded - it

gives me something to look at!

Viola

Sunil <sunil@...> wrote:

Hi

Even though I've been reading here for five or six years this is my

first post to the list. The bit about 90 minutes struck a chord with us,

because it's something we always look out for with our son. In fact we

used to see lots of problems with our son at 30 minutes and then at

about 90 minutes after eating. The kinds of things we saw were that at

30 minutes he would start rocking from side to side and get very stimmy

for a few minutes, at 90 minutes he would have a period of manic

laughter and be very hyper for a few minutes, then it would pass as if

nothing had happened. We changed the enzymes and foods around but we

still got these episodes, and some combinations were worse than others,

so we figured that for our son, since it happened with or without

enzymes it was the process of digestion itself that was causing it to

occur.

We got a clue about the digestion possibility from a paragraph in

newsletter about probiotics

( <http://www.bio-kult.com/newsletter/Newsletter4.pdf>

http://www.bio-kult.com/newsletter/Newsletter4.pdf ) which indicated:

" Transit Time

When you eat, food is masticated in the mouth and mixed with alkaline

saliva. This food bolus then passes into the stomach, where it mixes

with the stomach juices and is churned around by the stomach muscle,

much like in a washing machine. This liquid part of the mixture is

called chyme, and 50% of this leaves the stomach 30 minutes after

eating. "

We believe that the 30 minute event was to do with the chyme, and that

perhaps at 90 minutes the rest of the food leaves our son's stomach

giving rise to another period of hyperactivity. Possibly an effect of a

leaky gut!

Last year when our son was eating nuts as part of the SCD diet, he would

have a really hard time at 30 minutes and 90 minutes with the meals that

contained nuts and it was always worse if enzymes had been given. When

we started to try the Low Oxalate Diet, taking the nuts out reduced the

intensity of the events, so he did less rocking at 30 minutes and was

less stimmy and hyper at 90 minutes. We were also able to reintroduce

the enzymes. Last year we also began to increase his Biotin to deal with

the yeast problems he had, that also seems to have reduced the

intensity of the events.

Nowadays he usually has a period of blinking and finger flicking 30

minutes after he has eaten and is a bit more stimmy after 90 minutes,

though not so intense that anyone else apart from us would notice it

happening. We've even been able to travel on the train and underground

again in the last few months (after eight years) without having the

worry about the hyperness episodes.

Hope this helps

Sunil

"

</message/113247;_ylc=X3oD

MTJzanVpdmhzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzMyOTc1MzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxNjE2

BG1zZ0lkAzExMzI0NwRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDEwMjMy> temper

tantroms approximately 90 minutes after enzymes...

Posted by: " viola062003 " <mailto:viola062003@...?Subject=

Re%3Atemper%20tantroms%20approximately%2090%20minutes%20after%20enzymes%

2E%2E%2E> viola062003@...

<viola062003> viola062003

Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:41 pm (PDT)

what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or so

after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a day and

one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after the

peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ?? "

[Guest guest]

Tammy:

I'm wondering, did you read that if you " push through " it gets better

with kids who react at the 90 minute mark?

I am thinking about stopping the Peptizyde temporarily and waiting a

week or so and then try adding it in again and see if the same thing

happens, but I did notice that the ness enzyme he was on without

issues did have papaya leaf in it, so I don't think it's the papain

in the peptizyde. If you are hearing that this is something that

could get better over the next few weeks if you push through, I would

like to continue and try it. My daughter is not usually a negative

responder, so the fact that she is more irritable, crying, et cetera

maybe it is just an adjustment period we need to get through?

Dana, what do you think about this?

Viola

> >

> > what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes

or

> so

> > after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a

day

> and

> > one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after

the

> > peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

> >

> > We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months,

then

> > switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

> > hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about five

or

> > six days ago.

> >

> > Viola

> >

> I have been noticing the same thing with hyperness and aggression

90

> minutes after teh trienza/peptizyd. We started 5 days ago and seem

to

> be having the same issues. I keep reading everywhere to find out

and

> it seems to happen to some kids. Definitely mine. I just started

on

> this board and really appreciate everyone's input. I hope it gets

> better for you soon. Keep us posted. I am holding out for the 3

week

> marker with high hopes:).

> Tammy

>

[Guest guest]

My son was a bit more hyper when we switched to tri-enza...but now he had calmed

down and his gains have returned...maybe you just need to give it a little time.

Good Luck!

Carla

Re: temper tantroms approximately 90 minutes after

enzymes...

>

> what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90 minutes or

so

> after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times a day

and

> one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after the

> peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

>

> We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months, then

> switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

> hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about five or

> six days ago.

>

> Viola

>

I have been noticing the same thing with hyperness and aggression 90

minutes after teh trienza/peptizyd. We started 5 days ago and seem to

be having the same issues. I keep reading everywhere to find out and

it seems to happen to some kids. Definitely mine. I just started on

this board and really appreciate everyone's input. I hope it gets

better for you soon. Keep us posted. I am holding out for the 3 week

marker with high hopes:).

Tammy

[Guest guest]

Hi Viola,

I read and have been told that it could take around 3 weeks to get

better. I am really hopeful. Today my daughter seemed a little

less agressive but it was definitely still there. I am new to this

so I may not be as knowledgable as others about the process. Have

you been increasing the dose as recommended with the package? I

decided to keep it at 2 capsules a day until I see improvement in

her behavior melt downs. I hope I am doing the right thins. Keep me

posted on what you decide.

Tammy

> > >

> > > what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90

minutes

> or

> > so

> > > after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times

a

> day

> > and

> > > one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after

> the

> > > peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

> > >

> > > We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months,

> then

> > > switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

> > > hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about

five

> or

> > > six days ago.

> > >

> > > Viola

> > >

> > I have been noticing the same thing with hyperness and

aggression

> 90

> > minutes after teh trienza/peptizyd. We started 5 days ago and

seem

> to

> > be having the same issues. I keep reading everywhere to find

out

> and

> > it seems to happen to some kids. Definitely mine. I just

started

> on

> > this board and really appreciate everyone's input. I hope it

gets

> > better for you soon. Keep us posted. I am holding out for the

3

> week

> > marker with high hopes:).

> > Tammy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tammy:

I decided to keep my son on the zyme prime, but take him off the peptizyde. I

think he may be allergic to the papain. I called Houston Enzymes and they did

tell me some children cannot handle the papain, which comes from the stem of the

papaya, but there's some process it goes through that makes it similar to latex.

So if someone is allergic to latex, there's a possibility they could be allergic

to the peptizyde. When I went to our allergy clearing clinic yesterday, I asked

them to check Mandell for latex and he shows an allergy for that. Plus, he was

developing canker sores in his mouth for the first time ever. I have read that

this can be a reaction to something you are sensitive to, so I decided to stop

the peptizyde and get a sample from Houston of the AFP peptizyde, which doesn't

have the papain and I will try that.

I think they are okay with the zime prime, so I'm going to try continuing

that.

I did go a little faster than they say to go - I started with a 1/2 cap, but

moved to a full cap within a day or two - I too stoped at 1 cap twice a day -

then I reduced to 1/2, but with my son I was still seeing meltdowns - but like I

said I think it is an allergy for him.

My daughter was overly emotional too - but I don't think she's allergic to it.

I decided to take her off and put her on the other product too.

Good luck - let me know how it goes - I'm curious if it gets better, cause

maybe they will have the same reaction to the next product. I do plan to go

quite a bit slower next time - like maybe 1/4 to start for three or four days.

Viola

tamarabeideman <tamarabeideman@...> wrote:

Hi Viola,

I read and have been told that it could take around 3 weeks to get

better. I am really hopeful. Today my daughter seemed a little

less agressive but it was definitely still there. I am new to this

so I may not be as knowledgable as others about the process. Have

you been increasing the dose as recommended with the package? I

decided to keep it at 2 capsules a day until I see improvement in

her behavior melt downs. I hope I am doing the right thins. Keep me

posted on what you decide.

Tammy

> > >

> > > what could cause this? It seems to be happening about 90

minutes

> or

> > so

> > > after peptizyde and digest. We are at one digest three times

a

> day

> > and

> > > one peptizyde in the a.m. and p.m. - it seems to happen after

> the

> > > peptizyde. Is there any connection to the enzyme -- ??

> > >

> > > We were on a very mild ness 601 formula for about six months,

> then

> > > switched a couple weeks ago to the digest. I'm seeing lots of

> > > hyperness and aggression. The peptizyde was added in about

five

> or

> > > six days ago.

> > >

> > > Viola

> > >

> > I have been noticing the same thing with hyperness and

aggression

> 90

> > minutes after teh trienza/peptizyd. We started 5 days ago and

seem

> to

> > be having the same issues. I keep reading everywhere to find

out

> and

> > it seems to happen to some kids. Definitely mine. I just

started

> on

> > this board and really appreciate everyone's input. I hope it

gets

> > better for you soon. Keep us posted. I am holding out for the

3

> week

> > marker with high hopes:).

> > Tammy

> >

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

> I am thinking about stopping the Peptizyde temporarily and waiting a

> week or so and then try adding it in again and see if the same thing

> happens, but I did notice that the ness enzyme he was on without

> issues did have papaya leaf in it, so I don't think it's the papain

> in the peptizyde.

Check doses/quantities. Maybe if the other enzyme had a lower dose,

he did not have as much of a problem.

Or it might be something else entirely.

>>If you are hearing that this is something that

> could get better over the next few weeks if you push through, I would

> like to continue and try it.

If so, reduce the dose.

Dana