Re: Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

[Guest guest]

I don't know much about the rest- But after going about 1 month of

taking away his pull-ups, and letting him pee the bed every night,

(thinking he would of course get sick of getting wet and cold every

night) I gave up. It wasn't much later that I gave NCD a try for the

first time - and boom! Dry every night since (well an occasional

accident, but hey he's 5!)

-Jenna

>

>

> Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is almost

> 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained all

> the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee trained

> for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing is

> just not happening.

>

[Guest guest]

Lots of info. to follow, but my son had this a while back and following the

advise below helped a ton.

HTH,

Robyn

This condition is a recessive inborn error of metabolism. This means that

people who inherit one gene for it from each parent can be affected. The

genetic defect involves an enzyme that breaks down trimethylamine, a by-product

of protein digestion released by bacteria living in the intestines. This

molecule is the compound that gives fish their fishy odor; it has been

described

as smelling “foul†or “garbage-like†at low concentrations and

“fishy†in

larger amounts.

Trimethylaminuria can appear at any age, often depending upon the patient’s

diet. It is exacerbated by choline, which is found in eggs, liver and other

organ meats, legumes, and some grains. It can also be exacerbated by eating

foods such as salt water fish, which contain trimethylamine-oxide. The good

news is that symptoms can often be reduced by following a low-protein diet

that restricts foods containing choline or trimethylamine-oxide. Some people

also report that limiting lecithin (a common food additive that is also

naturally found in eggs, soybeans, and corn) also helps reduce their body odor.

In

some patients, avoiding dark green leafy vegetables and broccoli may help as

well. Because the odor is produced by the normal bacteria of the gut,

low-dose antibiotics may also help reduce the odor-producing load.

Patients with this condition report foul odors in their breath, sweat, and

urine. The body odor is most commonly described as smelling like “rotting

fish

†and is most prominent in areas of active sweating (armpits or feet) and in

the urine.

In a message dated 8/21/2007 4:46:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

Ladyshrink111@... writes:

Alpha Ketoglutarate for the ammonia. The only thing I have ever heard about

fish smells are kids who are taking large doses of phosphatidylcholineA

Try increasing magnesium up until bowel tolerance for night time training.

Some times, not always it is a lack of muscle tone. Rule out a physical cause

first.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Guest guest]

Alpha Ketoglutarate for the ammonia. The only thing I have ever heard about fish

smells are kids who are taking large doses of phosphatidylcholine.

Try increasing magnesium up until bowel tolerance for night time training. Some

times, not always it is a lack of muscle tone. Rule out a physical cause first.

[ ] Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite diapers.

They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He has

been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what in

the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take CLO

or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am totally

stumped by this one....any idea.

Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is almost

9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained all

the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee trained

for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing is

just not happening.

The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week in

chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a fishy

smell.

thanks for any input in advance

Ronni

[Guest guest]

I started checking on my son every hour, then every half hour to see if he

was wetting around the same time at night. For us he was wetting twice. Once

around 10pm and once again around 2am. I started waking him gently, even

helping him up and to the bathroom. I would stand him infront of the toilet,

take down his pants (he was practically sleep walking and stood there with his

eyes closed) and tell him, " its time to go pee pee, then we'll go back to

bed. " I did this at 10pm and 2am for a while then he started wetting one time

a

night around midnight. So I started waking him around 11:45pm every night.

After about 2-3 weeks he was getting up on his own to go right around that

time. We still have an occassional bed wetting accident but for the most part

he does well. We did take away the night diaper like someone else mentioned.

We let him wet himself and get to know what it felt like and he didn't like

it. I bought 3 of these bed pads from kohls

_http://tinyurl.com/2nuaqr_ (http://tinyurl.com/2nuaqr)

and some cheap fitted sheets and just kept them out and ready to go. The

underpad is about the size of a beach towel and is washable. I would make his

bed with a pad, a sheet, a pad, a sheet....with all three sets so if he wet I

just pulled off the sheet and wet pad and he was all set without having to

remake the entire bed. It just made for easy night changes.

good luck

Kerrie

In a message dated 8/21/2007 5:12:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jennaj13@... writes:

Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

Sorry I can't help with the fishy smell either, but wanted to tell

you that after many rounds of chelation my son stopped wetting the

bed. It may be a matter of time for him. Not sure how much

chelation you've done already but every child is different.

HTH

Wyndie

>

> [ ] Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

>

>

> My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite

diapers.

> They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

> larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He has

> been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

>

> Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what

in

> the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take

CLO

> or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am

totally

> stumped by this one....any idea.

>

> Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is

almost

> 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained

all

> the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee

trained

> for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing

is

> just not happening.

>

> The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week

in

> chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a

fishy

> smell.

>

> thanks for any input in advance

> Ronni

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jenna congratulations,

What is NCD, and where get it?

my son 3.5 yo day trained, but needs dipers at night

thanks

Jenna <jennaj13@...> wrote:

I don't know much about the rest- But after going about 1 month of

taking away his pull-ups, and letting him pee the bed every night,

(thinking he would of course get sick of getting wet and cold every

night) I gave up. It wasn't much later that I gave NCD a try for the

first time - and boom! Dry every night since (well an occasional

accident, but hey he's 5!)

-Jenna

>

>

> Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is almost

> 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained all

> the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee trained

> for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing is

> just not happening.

>

[Guest guest]

A urine amino acid test would show if he is high in ammonia.

sometimes adequate levels of B12 help the potty training in general

which may help the night bed wetting too.

>

> My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite diapers.

> They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

> larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He has

> been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

>

> Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what in

> the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take

CLO

> or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am

totally

> stumped by this one....any idea.

>

> Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is

almost

> 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained

all

> the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee

trained

> for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing is

> just not happening.

>

> The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week in

> chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a

fishy

> smell.

>

> thanks for any input in advance

> Ronni

>

[Guest guest]

Ya , that could just be the smell cause....we doubled up on

his phosphatidylcholine cuz he had a bout of really light poops...and

they are a bit darker...but now he smells so odd....I wonder why the

fishy smell as the lecithin I use is soy based....isn't that what

phosphatidylcholine is? Either way it is soy based...why would that

smell like fish??? So weird....thank you both ladies for the input

on nite training....will boost the mag and add the Alpha...and see

what happens..

Thanks again

Ronni

> Alpha Ketoglutarate for the ammonia. The only thing I have ever

heard about fish smells are kids who are taking large doses of

phosphatidylcholine.

>

> Try increasing magnesium up until bowel tolerance for night time

training. Some times, not always it is a lack of muscle tone. Rule

out a physical cause first.

>

>

>

> [ ] Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

>

>

> My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite diapers.

> They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

> larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He has

> been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

>

> Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what in

> the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take

CLO

> or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am

totally

> stumped by this one....any idea.

>

> Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is

almost

> 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained

all

> the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee

trained

> for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing

is

> just not happening.

>

> The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week in

> chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a

fishy

> smell.

>

> thanks for any input in advance

> Ronni

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We just finished round 32 week before last....but my kids are not the

usual autistic...they are a total mess from alcohol and drugs and and

before they were even born....they each had at least 5-9 redline high

metals besides mercury....and that showed high too...and messed up

mineral transport...this little guy is my Kanner's guy...so I know

he's doin great...but sometimes.....

Thanks

Ronni

>

> Sorry I can't help with the fishy smell either, but wanted to tell

> you that after many rounds of chelation my son stopped wetting the

> bed. It may be a matter of time for him. Not sure how much

> chelation you've done already but every child is different.

> HTH

> Wyndie

> >

> > [ ] Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

> >

> >

> > My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite

> diapers.

> > They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

> > larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He

has

> > been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

> >

> > Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what

> in

> > the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take

> CLO

> > or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am

> totally

> > stumped by this one....any idea.

> >

> > Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is

> almost

> > 9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop

trained

> all

> > the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee

> trained

> > for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing

> is

> > just not happening.

> >

> > The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week

> in

> > chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a

> fishy

> > smell.

> >

> > thanks for any input in advance

> > Ronni

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What is this called or how do i deal with it if that is the case...do

I just treat it like a bacteria and cut his lecithin back or

what...dang...I feel so bad cuz I was trying to help him and seems

like I am not...breaks my heart... I hate this life....too many

variables...too many unknowns....I like challanges and puzzles...but

not at the expense of my child...

Thanks so much

Ronni

>

>

> Lots of info. to follow, but my son had this a while back and

following the

> advise below helped a ton.

> HTH,

> Robyn

> This condition is a recessive inborn error of metabolism. This

means that

> people who inherit one gene for it from each parent can be

affected. The

> genetic defect involves an enzyme that breaks down trimethylamine,

a by-product

> of protein digestion released by bacteria living in the

intestines. This

> molecule is the compound that gives fish their fishy odor; it has

been described

> as smelling “foul†or “garbage-like†at low concentrations

and “fishy†in

> larger amounts.

> Trimethylaminuria can appear at any age, often depending upon the

patient’s

> diet. It is exacerbated by choline, which is found in eggs, liver

and other

> organ meats, legumes, and some grains. It can also be exacerbated

by eating

> foods such as salt water fish, which contain trimethylamine-

oxide. The good

> news is that symptoms can often be reduced by following a low-

protein diet

> that restricts foods containing choline or trimethylamine-oxide.

Some people

> also report that limiting lecithin (a common food additive that is

also

> naturally found in eggs, soybeans, and corn) also helps reduce

their body odor. In

> some patients, avoiding dark green leafy vegetables and broccoli

may help as

> well. Because the odor is produced by the normal bacteria of the

gut,

> low-dose antibiotics may also help reduce the odor-producing load.

> Patients with this condition report foul odors in their breath,

sweat, and

> urine. The body odor is most commonly described as smelling like

“rotting fish

> †and is most prominent in areas of active sweating (armpits or

feet) and in

> the urine.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/21/2007 4:46:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> Ladyshrink111@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Alpha Ketoglutarate for the ammonia. The only thing I have ever

heard about

> fish smells are kids who are taking large doses of

phosphatidylcholineA

>

> Try increasing magnesium up until bowel tolerance for night time

training.

> Some times, not always it is a lack of muscle tone. Rule out a

physical cause

> first.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son's urine smelled like this for years, but the longer we chelate, the less

it is.

Barb

[ ] Ammonia and fishy smelling urine

My 8 yr old autistic son has a terrible odor to his nite diapers.

They smell like ammonia and fish!!! I am thinking of adding an

larginine and l-ornithine blend to help with the ammonia. He has

been taking 500 to 1000 daily of l-lysine for a while...

Am thinking that this will take care of the ammonia.. but what in

the world would cause him to smell like fish....he doesn't take CLO

or any other fish oils...and we only rarely have fish....I am totally

stumped by this one....any idea.

Also...how do you get these kiddos to night train. My son is almost

9 and shows no sign of being nite trained. Has been poop trained all

the time except for skids for a couple years....and day pee trained

for about a year...with a few accidents....but this night thing is

just not happening.

The only change I can think of, is that we missed doing a week in

chelation, last week...but I wouldn't think that would cause a fishy

smell.

thanks for any input in advance

Ronni