Re: OT: vaccine dilemna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/14/07 8:13:23 PM Central Daylight Time,

_Shepard@... writes:

> The doctor said that he has researched and there are no major religions

> opposed to vaccines, so he's not open to that.

First I refuse to believe that. I don't believe the Amish get shots for

example and I'm sure there are others and I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate

their

beliefs being marginalized because the good dr. does't consider them a " major "

religion. Regardless, the dr. is speaking strictly of " Church Doctrine. "

For example, part of the Christian faith is to treat the body as the temple of

God. The details of that isn't spelled out in church doctrine but it is in the

Bible. When I wrote my religious exemption letter (for school to avoid

boosters) I wrote that now that I understand the harm that can be done, it is

" contrary to the Christian belief of treating the body as a temple " . A good

analogy

to put before the good dr. is that you can't find in the Bible or in church

doctrine, not to smoke cigarettes, but it is generally accepted in the

faith as a no-no since it is contrary to the scripture regarding

treating

the body as the temple. The only difference is that we KNOW that cigarette

smoking is harmful to the temple (and the dr. can't argue that) but the majority

of

Christians do not understand the harm that vaccines can do. So I think the

Dr. is on shaky ground when it comes to the 'religious exemption'. If a

Christian believes that vaccines are harmful to the body...then that would fall

under

the same scripture. And I bet the dr. won't argue that the Christain faith

is not a " major " religion. To show how shaky a ground the dr. is on.... you

almost never see a governmental agency such as schools, go to court over

someones

religious beliefs. It could turn into a major constitutional question so the

dr. may be a big ole bluffing bully in this regard.

I always believe in trying to work things out amicably first so I encourage

your relatives to try again and approach the dr with some literature and maybe

from the religious perspective noted above. I worry however, that based on

his response that he will be a tough cookie. AFterall, what dr. wants to

believe that something they have been a part of for years and years has

inflicted

so much harm? Of course they will oppose the idea that not only have they been

horribly wrong. I say that if he doesn't give an exemption after that, that

your relatives go straight to AN ATTORNEY. The fact is that you neice has

ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED for surgery and I imagine that this would go greatly in

her

favor. Maybe a letter to the dr, not from another dr.. but an ATTORNEY would

let the dr. know you mean not to give these vaccines and maybe even a

" discrimination based on religious beliefs " thing could be thrown in there.

Often a

letter from a lawyer is enough to bring about the desired effect. They

probably don't want to risk a lawsuit. However, they might not worry about it,

being a private charity? I don't' know. It is at least worth seeing a lawyer to

talk about it.

Lastly, after what we have been through with autism, there is NO WAY I would

risk the vaccine thing again. I would go to the bank and take out a loan to

pay for the surgery myself before doing that.....it would be worth going into

debt for. Start checking with other charitable agencies. I understand the

surgery needs to be done sooner rather than later but there is also " better safe

than sorry " to think about. It might prove worth the extra time.

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[Guest guest]

>>The doctor said that he has researched and there are no major

religions opposed to vaccines, so he's not open to that.

Last I knew, Catholic was a " major religion " . Here are two Catholic pages

http://www.immunize.org/concerns/vaticandocument.htm

http://www.cogforlife.org/vaxexempt.htm

Many members of other religions use the " body is the temple of the

Holy Spirit " logic, so they can use that also.

>>I suspect that other hospitals where they would have to pay out of

pocket would probably also give them a hard time about the vaccines.

Try other charities. I receive mail solicitations occasionally, for

charity groups that repair cleft palates, so there must be more than

one group.

Folic acid deficiency is one cause of cleft, so you can suggest that.

It won't help the current problem, but might be beneficial in other ways.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I was under the impression that forced vaccination was for school

entrance, and no other reason. But, I've found that many private

entities, like Shriners, private colleges, etc., seem to think they can

just force vaccination on people as a matter of policy. Unfortunately,

then it becomes a matter of policy and they are real jerks about not

wanting to change policy. In my mind, up to date vaccination is more of

a danger than a help to the immune system. If Shriners won't budge, I

wouldn't deal with them. It is not worth sacrificing the child's future

health for the present rush.

We've been through the Private Entity, We can Force You to Vaccinate

rush. It isn't fun, but it can be won. Hopefully something here will

be helpful.

What we did with the college we butted heads with was to prepare a case

with documentation of the potential harm of vaccinations. We used Neil

's " Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective " as our main

source. He has so many footnotes for the massive amount of info that

you can easily find many other resources that support the harm that

vaccines can do. Many are just mainline medical and congress documents

so more readily accepted by those who believe in vaccinations. They

will likely poo-poo any evidence given them from anti-vaccination sites

or entities. But, if you can find a medical doctor who will attest to

the potential harm, that is a good thing to pack in your info arsenal.

I think there is one in Ohio - Sherri something. . . name eludes me

right now. I'm sure someone else here knows the name. She's quite

popular. They might even dig up the schedule for vaccinations for 30

years or so ago when there were not yet recommended vaccinations for

children so young (or so many vaxes). They can ask the hospital if they

conducted any similar surgeries on children under that vaccine schedule,

and if there were any adverse reactions because the children weren't

vaccinated as early. It is obvious that this is just another policy of

trying to force 100% vaccination on the populace.

You could also have them consult with Cindee Gardner -

http://www.cindeegadner.com - she is a homeopath who deals with vaccine

alternative. She may have run into this with Shriners before and have

some ideas. She helped us with our college fight. We did alternative

vaccinations through homeopathy provided by Cindee. They refused those

also at first, but eventually, we were able to get them to accept both

the alternatives and the exemption.

One of the keys in our battle was not to stop at anyone's door. We

asked if it was the college's policy, the answer was of course yes. So,

then with that statement out of the way, we were able to ask if the

person we were speaking to was the policy making. The answer was no, of

course. In the case of Shriners, you know that the doc is not the

policy maker. So, don't stop at him. Ask who is the person you need to

talk to in administration who would be the policy maker. This process

will take you up the chain of command until you can get to someone who

can make the decision or change the policy. The doctor doesn't have

that power, I'm sure. We had to work our way up the chain of command

from the school nurse, through admissions, until we finally go to the VP

in charge.

I'd have the family check around for other charitable organizations who

might be willing to help, including the state. Until more people start

standing against forced vaccination, it will always be with us.

P.

My Insurance Soapbox - We don't do insurance on purpose (could, but find

it is a corrupt system with which we do not want to participate). So the

" we don't have insurance " line has never cut it with us. We've managed

just fine, and find many procedures and hospital stays MUCH cheaper

without insurance. My husband and I paid for years on his cancer

surgery, treatments and follow-ups when we were insured (while we paid

for insurance too), we were overcharged for many things and charged for

services that were either unnecessary or not performed. The insurance

company even tried to refuse the charges for the cancer surgery all

together!!! We'd try to fight charges and the insurance co and doctors

would close ranks and tell us that the charges were valid! Pure

corruption is driving up the cost of health care for everyone who is

insured. When our daughter required respiratory therapy and

hospitalization, it was much cheaper and paid off in 5 years without

insurance coverage. When our son broke a bone, the price for the ER and

X-rays was so cheap we could actually pay it off immediately, nothing

like the charges we suffered when insured. The doctors and hospitals

were more than willing to work with us. We've never been refused service

or told we can't have something done because we aren't insured. In my

opinion not having insurance is a blessing, not a curse. I've crunched

the numbers with those who are chronically ill too. They usually find

that dropping the insurance and paying out of pocket will save them

thousands in insurance premiums and excess costs CAUSED by being

insured. Stepping back down. . .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/07 10:59:00 AM Central Daylight Time,

the.great.zambini@... writes:

> They usually find

> that dropping the insurance and paying out of pocket will save them

> thousands in insurance premiums and excess costs CAUSED by being

> insured. Stepping back down. . .

>

You know I never thought of this...but if you put into an interest bearing

account, what you normally would for insurance premiums, I imagine you would

have plenty for dr's visits and your money would be making money (compounded

interest) to help build your own personal medical account. The only thing I can

think of that would be a problem would be long term care.

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[Guest guest]

You know, I can't understand why we need to shelter ourselves behind

the doctrines of a religion to be exempt from taking vaccines. It

should be a matter of individual freedom, you should just be able to

go and say " no, thanks, I've seen what it can do and I don't want it

for myself or my kids " . If someone offered me a cyanide pill, I'd say

" no, thanks, it's poisonous " , not give some excuse about it violating

God's temple...

a (p*ssed at most things right now)

[Guest guest]

I think that most states accept philosophical exemptions, not just

religious. Many seem to think only religious are allowed for some

reason. I've run into this on several message boards.

http://www.nvic.org would show for sure for your state. It isn't just

religious exemption. But, in the case of a private entity vax policy,

you just use whatever works.

paula wrote:

>

> You know, I can't understand why we need to shelter ourselves behind

> the doctrines of a religion to be exempt from taking vaccines. It

> should be a matter of individual freedom, you should just be able to

> go and say " no, thanks, I've seen what it can do and I don't want it

> for myself or my kids " . If someone offered me a cyanide pill, I'd say

> " no, thanks, it's poisonous " , not give some excuse about it violating

> God's temple...

>

> a (p*ssed at most things right now)

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I think there is one in Ohio - Sherri something. . . name eludes me

> right now. I'm sure someone else here knows the name. She's quite

> popular.

You might be thinking of Dr. Sherri Tenpenny. Here is one of her sites

http://www.nmaseminars.com/

I just googled her and there were many other sites.

Here is a site of vaccine articles written by medical doctors. It is

a " vaccine awareness " site, but the articles are all individually

linked, so you can just print them off individually.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/articles4.html

Dana

[Guest guest]

Yes Dana! Thank-you. I was busy with a birthday party yesterday and

every name I tried to remember all day eluded me . . . so

frustrating!!! It is Sherri Tenpenny. I've heard so many great things

from people who have actually been her patients. Thanks for looking up

the name.

Thanks for the website too. Another great one to bookmark in my health

folder.

p.

danasview wrote:

>

>

> > I think there is one in Ohio - Sherri something. . . name eludes me

> > right now. I'm sure someone else here knows the name. She's quite

> > popular.

>

> You might be thinking of Dr. Sherri Tenpenny. Here is one of her sites

>

> http://www.nmaseminars.com/ <http://www.nmaseminars.com/>

>

> I just googled her and there were many other sites.

>

> Here is a site of vaccine articles written by medical doctors. It is

> a " vaccine awareness " site, but the articles are all individually

> linked, so you can just print them off individually.

>

> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/articles4.html

> <http://www.whale.to/vaccine/articles4.html>

>

> Dana

>

>