DMSA

[Guest guest]

I have been looking at DMSA and sites that sell it. I (so far) have

seen only capsules, my son will not swallow pills, does it hurt to open

them and mix the powder with applesauce or in drinks?

Thanks,

Sue

[Guest guest]

You can open the capsules and mix the powder. Just make sure you don't

pre-mix it with any liquid or applesauce since DMSA gets oxidized

(search in the archives for Andy's comments on DMSA getting oxidized

and becoming unstable). For my 7.5 yr old, I split 25 mg DMSA capsule

into 2 portions and set it aside, and mix it with food only when I'm

ready to give him the dose.

Madhuri

>

> I have been looking at DMSA and sites that sell it. I (so far) have

> seen only capsules, my son will not swallow pills, does it hurt to

open

> them and mix the powder with applesauce or in drinks?

> Thanks,

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! Don't want to do anything harmful.

Sue

> >

> > I have been looking at DMSA and sites that sell it. I (so far)

have seen only capsules, my son will not swallow pills, does it hurt

to open them and mix the powder with applesauce or in drinks?

> > Thanks,

> > Sue

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous. There are

times when there is not chelator left in the body and metals floating

around redistributing. Versus what we are all doing, which is

providing a steady blood level of chelator. This same thing applies to

any drug or medication.

After all would she give her child cough medicine every other day if

the bottle said every 4 hours? That is what she's doing. Except that

we are dealing with something more dangerous than a cough...moving

heavy metals.

As for " proof " for her:

Just searching the web I am finding articles about the half life of

dmsa. It peaks in the blood at 3.2 hrs and begins declining from that

point. And of course, Andy has said this in many posts and in his books.

From what else I am reading it would seem that this DAN is using a

Lead protocol of dmsa 3 times a day. But most DAN's are wrong in

chelation protocols. Good luck convincing her...

Try maybe getting some articles on chelation, half life and

redistributions. Try onibasu for some of Andy's old posts...maybe that

will help.

>

> I am hoping someone can answer this for a discussion I had with

someone today.

> I know someone who is chelating their child on the 3 times per

day dan protocol.I told her that I am doing the dmsa every four hours

at a lower dose.I am under the impression that the dmsa stays in your

body only 3-4 hours and thats why you dose sooner and lower.Her take

on it is if you do a higher dose it stays in their body longer and you

can go 8 hours.

> This didn't really make any sense to me and I want to respond to her.

> Any help?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous.

We did eight hour dosing and my child is 100% recovered. Are you a

toxicologist?

Charlie

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From:

I am hoping someone can answer this for a discussion I had with someone today.

I know someone who is chelating their child on the 3 times per day dan

protocol.I told her that I am doing the dmsa every four hours at a lower dose.I

am under the impression that the dmsa stays in your body only 3-4 hours and

thats why you dose sooner and lower.Her take on it is if you do a higher dose it

stays in their body longer and you can go 8 hours.

This didn't really make any sense to me and I want to respond to her.

====>The half life of Dmsa is 4 hours, no matter how much you give. The truth

is that *some* kids can take the every 8 hour dosing and a lot more can't

without redistribution symptoms. Since it's impossible to tell which one your

child is without experimenting and causing damage, the safest way to give Dmsa

is every 4 hours.

If you use her reasoning I should be able to take 8 Advil and have them last

for 24 hours, it doesn't work that way.

Dan! dosing is 8 hours but we get a lot of parents' here whose child got worse

on that dose timing. Again, not all do, but I'd rather be safe and experimenting

with a kid is not my idea of fun.

Any help?

[Guest guest]

That's great. Perhaps your child was not as toxic as some. And may

have done ok that way. Amazing if you had no problems, no side effects

and no redistribution doing that. I guess you were incredibly lucky or

the effects have yet to show up. Or your child was exceptionally slow

in excreting dmsa. Who knows...either way..I am glad your child did

well with 8 hours and did not suffer for it.

I have done extensive research on heavy metals, poisoning and

chelation, anatomy, physiology and the works. It is my field of study.

Read many books, medical journals, medical studies, college courses

etc, etc. The list is endless. What about you?

Are you questioning my knowledge? You certainly don't have to listen

to it if you disagree. That's your choice. I do not really have time

for those that have not done their research and wish to argue

pointless things with me. I am not here for that..but rather to help

people who really want it. As well as my own children.

You may have chelated your child this way. That was your choice.

Did you use the chelators on yourself? So you'd know how it felt to

take it, and what happens if you don't take it every four hours? I

have been chelating myself for two years? How about you?

I have accidentally missed doses on myself and personally experienced

redistribution from it. I would forget and at about 4 and half hours

begin to feel sick. Which is the reminder that I had missed the dose.

You get a headache, nauseous and feel really icky. In fact at times I

have had to dose it at three hour intervals to avoid redistribution

effects, depending on my metabolism. Which further confirms time

frames of dmsa in my body. Every drug or substance has a half life in

the body. Including food...which is why you eat every so often. Since

the fuel does not last forever. We dose pain killers on how long they

last in the body, we don't wait till the full blown post surgery pain

returns..then give you codeine..same principal with chelators. You

don't want metals floating around in the blood and no chelator to bind

them. Otherwise, those metals will just resettle in the body,

sometimes in worse places than they were to begin with.

Did you research dmsa and it's proper use? Or how chelation works?

It is one's choice to do what they wish. Whether or not it makes

scientific sense. After all, most of the country does that.

The chemistry says that dmsa last four hours in the body. So I choose

not go give someone false information that it lasts 8 hours when it

does not.

Did you read Andy's books?

I appreciate your difference of opinion. However, my reply was to

someone who is doing four hour dosing because she also researched it

and was looking for assistance in finding information regarding the

half life of dmsa...not because she was looking to convince herself

that her current protocol is wrong. But because she knew that it does

not last 8 hours in the body.

Please feel free to search old post from Andy Cutler on Onibasu or

this board on why 8 hour dosing is not recommended and regarding half

life of chelators if you are in doubt to this fact.

DMPS is a wonderful alternative for those wishing an 8 hour protocol.

So the best to you and thankfully your child is fine. That may not be

the case for someone else.

> >

> > Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> > of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous.

>

> We did eight hour dosing and my child is 100% recovered. Are you a

> toxicologist?

>

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Comments marked ***

>

> Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous. There are

> times when there is not chelator left in the body and metals floating

> around redistributing. Versus what we are all doing, which is

> providing a steady blood level of chelator.

***I am wondering about the science behind this. If it's dangerous to

NOT give chelators(DMSA, ALA) every 3-4 hours, then how in the world is

it safe to stop rounds? Let's say you are on your third day, and you

are taking your last dose(whatever time that may be). Isn't that doing

the same thing to your body, in terms of redistributing metals, as not

giving the actual chelator every few hours? How can coming off round be

safe? You have all these metals free, 'cause you've been giving your

body a steady supply of chelator for a few days, and then all of a

sudden, you just stop. I have always wondered about this. Do people not

have a difficult time ending their rounds?

Summer

[Guest guest]

It's not..no one ever said there was no redistribution coming off a

round. Sure there is, but do you want to do that to your body every

four hours for the three days because your giving chelators on 8 hours

dosing? The idea is to reduce the number of times you have to go

through redistribution. That is the basis for low, frequent dose on

the chelator half life. To minimize the number of times you

redistribute the metals.

Example:

8 hour rounds:

Day one: 8am dmsa

12noon: redistribution until 4pm

4pm dmsa

8pm redistribution until midnight

12am dmsa

4am redistribution until 8am

8am dmsa

That's three redistributions for ONE day of this protocol. If you do

this for three days you have NINE times that you have moved and

redeposited heavy metals.

Andy's protocol:

Day One: Day Two: Day three:

8am: dmsa 8am: dmsa 4am: dmsa

12n: dmsa 12n dmsa 8am dmsa

4pm: dmsa 4pm: dmsa 12n: dmsa

8pm: dmsa 8pm: dmsa 4pm: dmsa

12am: dmsa 12am: dmsa 8pm: dmsa

4am: dmsa End round..one time distribution

See the difference. One distribution versus NINE. There is always risk

when moving metals, the idea is to reduce the number of times you let

metals resettle in the body/brain. You want to pull out as much as you

can in one moving session. You do this with steady blood levels of

chelator. The science is there. Andy did the science. Read his books.

So yes, people do have side effects of ending rounds. But this is

better than having this happen nine times during the round. So if you

do nine redistributions with each round and you do fifty rounds,

that's 450 times you redistributed metals..verus 50 times on Andy's

protocol...it's like taking one step forward and two back. Is that

making more sense??

-- In , " summergrogan "

<summergrogan97@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Comments marked ***

>

> >

> > Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> > of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous. There are

> > times when there is not chelator left in the body and metals floating

> > around redistributing. Versus what we are all doing, which is

> > providing a steady blood level of chelator.

> ***I am wondering about the science behind this. If it's dangerous to

> NOT give chelators(DMSA, ALA) every 3-4 hours, then how in the world is

> it safe to stop rounds? Let's say you are on your third day, and you

> are taking your last dose(whatever time that may be). Isn't that doing

> the same thing to your body, in terms of redistributing metals, as not

> giving the actual chelator every few hours? How can coming off round be

> safe? You have all these metals free, 'cause you've been giving your

> body a steady supply of chelator for a few days, and then all of a

> sudden, you just stop. I have always wondered about this. Do people not

> have a difficult time ending their rounds?

>

> Summer

>

[Guest guest]

Well, it makes sense to me.Thanks for all the information Jada.

Jada <paxlforme@...> wrote: It's not..no one ever said there was

no redistribution coming off a

round. Sure there is, but do you want to do that to your body every

four hours for the three days because your giving chelators on 8 hours

dosing? The idea is to reduce the number of times you have to go

through redistribution. That is the basis for low, frequent dose on

the chelator half life. To minimize the number of times you

redistribute the metals.

Example:

8 hour rounds:

Day one: 8am dmsa

12noon: redistribution until 4pm

4pm dmsa

8pm redistribution until midnight

12am dmsa

4am redistribution until 8am

8am dmsa

That's three redistributions for ONE day of this protocol. If you do

this for three days you have NINE times that you have moved and

redeposited heavy metals.

Andy's protocol:

Day One: Day Two: Day three:

8am: dmsa 8am: dmsa 4am: dmsa

12n: dmsa 12n dmsa 8am dmsa

4pm: dmsa 4pm: dmsa 12n: dmsa

8pm: dmsa 8pm: dmsa 4pm: dmsa

12am: dmsa 12am: dmsa 8pm: dmsa

4am: dmsa End round..one time distribution

See the difference. One distribution versus NINE. There is always risk

when moving metals, the idea is to reduce the number of times you let

metals resettle in the body/brain. You want to pull out as much as you

can in one moving session. You do this with steady blood levels of

chelator. The science is there. Andy did the science. Read his books.

So yes, people do have side effects of ending rounds. But this is

better than having this happen nine times during the round. So if you

do nine redistributions with each round and you do fifty rounds,

that's 450 times you redistributed metals..verus 50 times on Andy's

protocol...it's like taking one step forward and two back. Is that

making more sense??

-- In , " summergrogan "

<summergrogan97@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Comments marked ***

>

> >

> > Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> > of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous. There are

> > times when there is not chelator left in the body and metals floating

> > around redistributing. Versus what we are all doing, which is

> > providing a steady blood level of chelator.

> ***I am wondering about the science behind this. If it's dangerous to

> NOT give chelators(DMSA, ALA) every 3-4 hours, then how in the world is

> it safe to stop rounds? Let's say you are on your third day, and you

> are taking your last dose(whatever time that may be). Isn't that doing

> the same thing to your body, in terms of redistributing metals, as not

> giving the actual chelator every few hours? How can coming off round be

> safe? You have all these metals free, 'cause you've been giving your

> body a steady supply of chelator for a few days, and then all of a

> sudden, you just stop. I have always wondered about this. Do people not

> have a difficult time ending their rounds?

>

> Summer

>

[Guest guest]

>

> So yes, people do have side effects of ending rounds. But this is

> better than having this happen nine times during the round. So if you

> do nine redistributions with each round and you do fifty rounds,

> that's 450 times you redistributed metals..verus 50 times on Andy's

> protocol...it's like taking one step forward and two back. Is that

> making more sense??

Much more sense! Thanks Jada

Summer G.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

.

This is what I try to say.

Clearly it is safer giving half as much twice as often. You are taking the same

total amount, but it is smoothing it out, so it doesn't go up and down as much.

Point out that if you take twice as much, the amount in the blood goes twice as

high and then comes down for twice as long, so there is a lot more fluctuation

in the amount of chelator in the blood.

Then point out that any medical text-book on dosing pharmaceuticals says to dose

the drug on the half life. That is, on the time it takes a drug to come down

from it's peak to half as much. The point being to minimize the fluctuation in

quantity of chelator in the blood. Taking it more often can reduce it even

more, and continuous administration would be best, but the half life is usually

sufficiently often.

Finally, point out that the chelation protocol that doctors learn is to use DMSA

for lead, which resides in the bones, so they can get away with infrequent

dosing. On the other hand, mercury resides in the soft tissues, and so

excessive fluctuation in blood chelator level, will lead to excessive movement

of mercury back and forth into the tissues - which causes symptoms. In fact,

studies on rats show that this pumping of mercury back and forth transports the

mercury into the motor neurons, which can cause permanent damage.

If that isn't enough for her - give up.

Dave.

-------------

Posted by: " " natbill7@... natbill7

Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:40 pm ((PDT))

I am hoping someone can answer this for a discussion I had with someone today.

I know someone who is chelating their child on the 3 times per day dan

protocol.I told her that I am doing the dmsa every four hours at a lower dose.I

am under the impression that the dmsa stays in your body only 3-4 hours and

thats why you dose sooner and lower.Her take on it is if you do a higher dose it

stays in their body longer and you can go 8 hours.

This didn't really make any sense to me and I want to respond to her.

Any help?

[Guest guest]

Summer - It's not. That is why we get symptoms the day after stopping a round.

Those are symptoms of mercury redistribution. The point is to minimize them.

When I do rounds, they are 15 days.

Dave.

Posted by: " summergrogan " summergrogan97@... summergrogan

Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:16 pm ((PDT))

Comments marked ***

> >

> > Yeah, she's wrong. No matter how much you give the body still gets rid

> > of it in four hours. So what she is doing is dangerous. There are

> > times when there is not chelator left in the body and metals floating

> > around redistributing. Versus what we are all doing, which is

> > providing a steady blood level of chelator.

>

***I am wondering about the science behind this. If it's dangerous to

NOT give chelators(DMSA, ALA) every 3-4 hours, then how in the world is

it safe to stop rounds? Let's say you are on your third day, and you

are taking your last dose(whatever time that may be). Isn't that doing

the same thing to your body, in terms of redistributing metals, as not

giving the actual chelator every few hours? How can coming off round be

safe? You have all these metals free, 'cause you've been giving your

body a steady supply of chelator for a few days, and then all of a

sudden, you just stop. I have always wondered about this. Do people not

have a difficult time ending their rounds?

Summer

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " Charlie Hoover " .Hoover@... seadogdoc

Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT))

>We did eight hour dosing and my child is 100% recovered. Are you a

>toxicologist?

Well, this is a mind that seems to like following authority.

>Charlie

..............

> Actually the the half life of DMSA is 48 hours per the FDA

>(http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2007/019998s013lbl.pdf).

After what's been done to you, you believe the FDA on anything?

Here they report it as 3.2 hours:

Aposhian, H.V., Maiorino, R.M., , M., Bruce, D.C., Dart, R.C.,

Hurlbut, K.M., Levine, D.J., Zheng, W., , Q., , D.,

et al., 1992b. Human studies with the chelating agents, DMPS and

DMSA. J. Toxicol. Clin. Toxicol. 30, 505–528.

also referred to here:

Frumkin, H.,Manning, C.C.,, P.L., , A., , B.B.,

Pierce, M., Elon, L., Hertzberg, V.S., 2001. Diagnostic chelation

challenge with DMSA: a biomarker of long-term mercury expo-

sure? Environ. Health Perspect. 109, 167–171.

and here:

P.K. Rooney, 2007. The role of thiols, dithiols, nutritional

factors and

interacting ligands in the toxicology of mercury, Review. Toxicology 234

(2007) 145–156

>DMSA blood levels peak between 3-4 hours.

It's interesting that that is what Aposhian reports. On the other hand,

that FDA data you quote reports one to two hours. Are you trying to

confuse the issue?

In any case, as I'm sure you know, peaking and half-life are two

different, and independent, things.

>I talked and exchanged emails with many " experts " including Andy way

back in 2000 when we set out to " SHElate " (I didn't even know

>how to pronounce it).

I'm glad you've got that worked out.

>I choose eight hour dosing believing it was effective and safe. I

still believe that. Andy even asked if he could

>present our story of recovery until he learned we recovered our son

following the old DAN! Mercury Detox Protocol.

>Years ago, this was once a great group where information from

differing points of view could be freely exchanged and a parent didn't

>have to hear he or she was putting their child in danger or being

criticized for doing something that doesn't conform to " majority thinking " .

>I rarely post here anymore for this very reason as frankly it's just

not worth the trouble. How many old timers like me do likewise? Where

>is the founder Lynn Redwood? How many chelation veterans with gobs of

experience or who, like me, have actually recovered their child

>and don't want to push against the tide? It's not our loss folks.

>All this shit is an experiment.

Well, what is at least clear is that more frequent dosing is less of an

experiment than what you were doing.

So, why the bitterness ? Is it possible that your 8 hour dosing

didn't work so well for you after all? That your little experiment

wasn't quite so successful?

>Charlie

Dave.

[Guest guest]

Any reason you can't do Friday after school through Monday morning.

That is what most of us do. And also utilize any times the kids have

Friday off to start a round or have a week off for recess. Then in the

summer we chelate every week because they are home. Most all of us

have kids in school all day. You can do 3/4 or 3/11.

You can give her supplements at the same time or whenever. Doesn't

matter.

By weight: 7.5mg if using 1/8 mg dosing

15 mg if using 1/4mg per pound

30 mg if using 1/2mg per pound.

Any of these is fine. Usually you want to start at the lower end.

Since 7.5 mg is hard to divide out, you could start with 12.5 (half a

cap) and still be well within the dosing range. Or you could be extra

cautious and do 5mg. Your call.

>

> Hi got the dmsa..Ok here is the issue, she goes to school all day can

> I give the dmsa for for 2.5days and do it more frequently, I was

> going to start this summer but I want to start now and I dont want to

> have to pull her from school..I know the protocol is 3/11 but can we

> shorten those hrs at all...And since I am so nervous and overly

> excited about this I want to once again verify the dosage..she will

> be 8 years old in July and weighs 60pds..How much should I give her?

> and can I give with her other supplements at the same time? Thank you

> so much..

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Posted by: " Charlie Hoover " .Hoover@... seadogdoc

> Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT))

>

> >We did eight hour dosing and my child is 100% recovered. Are you a

> >toxicologist?

>

> Well, this is a mind that seems to like following authority.

>

> >Charlie

*Well, actually, we Andy followers could be accused of the exact same

thing. I see over and over again the faith we put in Andy because of

his PhD Chemistry expertise; really without challenge.*

> So, why the bitterness ? Is it possible that your 8 hour

dosing

> didn't work so well for you after all? That your little experiment

> wasn't quite so successful?

>

> >Charlie

>

> Dave.

This is just unkind. I think it is clear why Charlie is frustrated

in these posts. His child is recovered, and he used the 8 hour dosing

that gets bashed over and over again as approaching child abuse by

the more vocal people in our group.

Pam (before you implode... I'm an Andy protocol believer and user)

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: noaholiviaian

>

> Posted by: " Charlie Hoover " .Hoover@... seadogdoc

> Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT))

>

I think it is clear why Charlie is frustrated

in these posts. His child is recovered, and he used the 8 hour dosing

that gets bashed over and over again as approaching child abuse

====>Pam, I missed this, can you direct me to the post in which this statement

was made? I didn't see any bashing, I saw disagreement which Charlie doesn't

want, he wants to say what he did and then because his child got better he wants

that accepted as the correct way to do it for everyone.

This all started because Charlie questioned the use of very small amounts of

Dmsa for one child. Gosh, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

by

the more vocal people in our group.

Pam (before you implode... I'm an Andy protocol believer and user)

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, ,

I totally agree with the 'don't dish it out if you can't take it'

attitude. Completely.

I just think many of us get way too riled up when the 4 hour protocol

is challenged, questioned or contradicted. There is not 1 particular

post in this thread that was bashing what Charlie has done for his

child (to recover, apparently), but he did refer to the history of

zealots (his word) knocking down anything that didn't agree with what

Andy recommended. That was the bashing I referred to.

The sarcasm and the posturing that goes on here on A-M gets old at

times. Many comments are so unneccesary, and offer nothing to

further the discussion. Today it is old for me. Sometimes I wonder

why I follow the protocol of a man who can, at times, so publically

humiliate his followers. We have probably all been on the tail end

of Andy's sharp remarks (oh boy, I have)... and would never tolerate

that from an MD. Still, I agree with what he knows, I trust his

information and I continue to believe Andy's protocol is my child's

best chance at safely recovering. Just gets old sometimes.

Since obviously Andy reads these posts: no offense intended,

really. I think you know you won't win any Congeniality Awards...

nor should that be your goal.

I guess I should again read the entire thread, but I also didn't read

that Charlie wants his way accepted as the only correct way, but

instead one way. One thing I will disagree with: I think it is very

important that we continue to warn people about putting their child

in danger (one thing Charlie didn't seem to like). Most of us can do

that in a reasonable manner, but a few do immediately jump to making

hurtful, sarcastic and silly statements that kinda ruin it for the

rest of us. Charlie included.

Pam

> >

> > Posted by: " Charlie Hoover " .Hoover@ seadogdoc

> > Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT))

> >

> I think it is clear why Charlie is frustrated

> in these posts. His child is recovered, and he used the 8 hour

dosing

> that gets bashed over and over again as approaching child abuse

>

> ====>Pam, I missed this, can you direct me to the post in which

this statement was made? I didn't see any bashing, I saw

disagreement which Charlie doesn't want, he wants to say what he did

and then because his child got better he wants that accepted as the

correct way to do it for everyone.

>

> This all started because Charlie questioned the use of very small

amounts of Dmsa for one child. Gosh, if you can't take it, don't dish

it out.

>

>

>

>

>

> by

> the more vocal people in our group.

>

> Pam (before you implode... I'm an Andy protocol believer and user)

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Attachement might be of interest to naysayers.

noaholiviaian wrote:

>

> Hey, ,

>

> I totally agree with the 'don't dish it out if you can't take it'

> attitude. Completely.

>

> I just think many of us get way too riled up when the 4 hour protocol

> is challenged, questioned or contradicted. There is not 1 particular

> post in this thread that was bashing what Charlie has done for his

> child (to recover, apparently), but he did refer to the history of

> zealots (his word) knocking down anything that didn't agree with what

> Andy recommended. That was the bashing I referred to.

>

> The sarcasm and the posturing that goes on here on A-M gets old at

> times. Many comments are so unneccesary, and offer nothing to

> further the discussion. Today it is old for me. Sometimes I wonder

> why I follow the protocol of a man who can, at times, so publically

> humiliate his followers. We have probably all been on the tail end

> of Andy's sharp remarks (oh boy, I have)... and would never tolerate

> that from an MD. Still, I agree with what he knows, I trust his

> information and I continue to believe Andy's protocol is my child's

> best chance at safely recovering. Just gets old sometimes.

>

> Since obviously Andy reads these posts: no offense intended,

> really. I think you know you won't win any Congeniality Awards...

> nor should that be your goal.

>

> I guess I should again read the entire thread, but I also didn't read

> that Charlie wants his way accepted as the only correct way, but

> instead one way. One thing I will disagree with: I think it is very

> important that we continue to warn people about putting their child

> in danger (one thing Charlie didn't seem to like). Most of us can do

> that in a reasonable manner, but a few do immediately jump to making

> hurtful, sarcastic and silly statements that kinda ruin it for the

> rest of us. Charlie included.

>

> Pam

>

>

> > >

> > > Posted by: " Charlie Hoover " .Hoover@ seadogdoc

> > > Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:55 pm ((PDT))

> > >

> > I think it is clear why Charlie is frustrated

> > in these posts. His child is recovered, and he used the 8 hour

> dosing

> > that gets bashed over and over again as approaching child abuse

> >

> > ====>Pam, I missed this, can you direct me to the post in which

> this statement was made? I didn't see any bashing, I saw

> disagreement which Charlie doesn't want, he wants to say what he did

> and then because his child got better he wants that accepted as the

> correct way to do it for everyone.

> >

> > This all started because Charlie questioned the use of very small

> amounts of Dmsa for one child. Gosh, if you can't take it, don't dish

> it out.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > by

> > the more vocal people in our group.

> >

> > Pam (before you implode... I'm an Andy protocol believer and user)

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The group doesn't allow attachments - if a link, put it in the e-mail.

If a document, it needs to be added to files then the group notified

where to find it.

is wrote:

>

> Hello

>

> On 31/03/2008, Reynolds <peter@...

> <mailto:peter%40alkamy.com>> wrote:

> > Attachement might be of interest to naysayers.

>

> What attachment? There isnt anything attached to this post at all.

>

> is (confused)

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm a relative newbie to this site, I read it a lot but don't post

much as we haven't started chelation yet. It saddens me to see some

of the comments in this topic. I have very high respect for Dana,

, Jada, Andy and anyone who is striving to help their child

(or themselves) since our " modern " medicine doesn't seem to be

helping us. Where is the support for one another?? Just because

someone helped their child heal in a way different from you or I, or

in a way that you or I might not be in 100% agreement with, that

doesn't mean we should become overly defensive or attack one another

with words. We are all on the same team here. We all love our

children immensely and are striving to help them recover, and hoping

to help others along the way. Let's share our knowledge and what has

and hasn't worked for us, and accept that not everyone is going to

see things the exact same way.

When we start chelating, I will likely follow Andy's protocol because

it makes sense to me. Both Dana and (and many others) have

used a different protocol with success and I hold them in the highest

regard, even though I will likely follow a different one. I don't

think they would berate me for it, and I certainly wouldn't dream of

berating them either.

Let's support one another, and yes we should share our tips, advice,

cautions and concerns. But in the end, we are on the same team.

We're parents with sick children striving to heal them. Let's stop

trying to be right, and get back to helping our kids.

Sheri

[Guest guest]

But in the end, we are on the same team.

> We're parents with sick children striving to heal them. Let's stop

> trying to be right, and get back to helping our kids.

>

> Sheri

>

If you think this is bad, Onibasu " TTFD " for the mother of all snarky

discord. BTW, I'm told there's one group that if you mention the name

Andy Cutler in a post you automatically get thrown off the list.

Personally, I miss robbie v, but I guess there's only so many comical

ways to address the completely maudlin lack of influenza vaccine

effacicy.

I learned the meaning word effacicy right here.

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm a relative newbie to this site, I read it a lot but don't post

> much as we haven't started chelation yet. It saddens me to see

some

> of the comments in this topic. I have very high respect for Dana,

> , Jada, Andy and anyone who is striving to help their child

> (or themselves) since our " modern " medicine doesn't seem to be

> helping us. Where is the support for one another?? Just because

> someone helped their child heal in a way different from you or I,

or

> in a way that you or I might not be in 100% agreement with, that

> doesn't mean we should become overly defensive or attack one

another

> with words. We are all on the same team here. We all love our

> children immensely and are striving to help them recover, and

hoping

> to help others along the way. Let's share our knowledge and what

has

> and hasn't worked for us, and accept that not everyone is going to

> see things the exact same way.

>

> When we start chelating, I will likely follow Andy's protocol

because

> it makes sense to me. Both Dana and (and many others) have

> used a different protocol with success and I hold them in the

highest

> regard, even though I will likely follow a different one. I don't

> think they would berate me for it, and I certainly wouldn't dream

of

> berating them either.

>

> Let's support one another, and yes we should share our tips,

advice,

> cautions and concerns. But in the end, we are on the same team.

> We're parents with sick children striving to heal them. Let's stop

> trying to be right, and get back to helping our kids.

>

> Sheri

>

I think Sheri that you hit the nail on the head.

We ARE all on the same team. Being on the same team demands we allow

free dissemination of information so our teammates can make informed

decisions that they feel is the best one for their child and then

respecting that decision once it's made.

The actions of the CDC and others to hinder the free dissemination of

information is probably why we are here. If I knew back then what I

know now...

If I offended anyone, I humbly apologize as it wasn't my intention.

Charlie

[Guest guest]

This list doesn't allow attachements due to possible viruses. Once can cut and

paste content into a message or provide a link.

S S

Re: dmsa

Posted by: " is " alexis.atrekkie22@... atrekkie22

Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:00 am (PDT)

Hello

On 31/03/2008, Reynolds <peter@...> wrote:

> Attachement might be of interest to naysayers.

What attachment? There isnt anything attached to this post at all.

is (confused)

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

>

> Sheri. Our response to Charlie was more than a matter of his

dosing schedule. There are others on this list who have used 8 hour

dosing, and while there is clear experience to indicate that it's a

potentially dangerous thing to try, they seem to be able to get along

here fine.

>

> Dave.

>

> Posted by: " Sheri " ksmiller@... sherimiller75

> Date: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:43 am ((PDT))

>

> I'm a relative newbie to this site, I read it a lot but don't post

> much as we haven't started chelation yet. It saddens me to see

some

> of the comments in this topic. I have very high respect for Dana,

> , Jada, Andy and anyone who is striving to help their child

> (or themselves) since our " modern " medicine doesn't seem to be

> helping us. Where is the support for one another?? Just because

> someone helped their child heal in a way different from you or I,

or

> in a way that you or I might not be in 100% agreement with, that

> doesn't mean we should become overly defensive or attack one

another

> with words. [...]

>