Re: anyone seen LOW testosterone?

[Guest guest]

Does diflucan lower testosterone? Soy products do, though you're

likely not using any.

Sorry I'm not more help

Rene

>

> I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but didn't get

> any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested to know

> if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested nine

> months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their supplements/rxs that

> can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

>

>

[Guest guest]

He hasn't been on diflucan and hasn't had soy in years. I talked

with Dan Rossignol this morning and he said that most ASD kids have

low testosterone. He said that it was only a very small percentage

that had high testosterone. I still wonder if anyone else has seen

undetectable levels...

> >

> > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

didn't get

> > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested to

know

> > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

nine

> > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their supplements/rxs

that

> > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

the Geier's protocol lowers testosterone. they have learned there

is definitley a link of high testosterone, low glutothione with

autism. see the Geiers talk about their protocol at links below,

they can

explain it much better:

http://autismmedia.org/media4.html

http://autismmedia.org/media8.html

http://autismmedia.org/media2.html

>

> I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but didn't

get

> any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested to

know

> if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

nine

> months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their supplements/rxs

that

> can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mostly what I have run into on this board was post from parents that

thier child had to high of levels of testosterone and they beleived

that played a part in their autism. As testosterone inhibits metal

excretion.

I have no idea what my sons' are. We never tested. I do know he is a

hairy child. He was born with back hair, which is still there at 4

yrs.

> > >

> > > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

> didn't get

> > > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested

to

> know

> > > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

> nine

> > > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their

supplements/rxs

> that

> > > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Need to disagree with Dan Rossignol. Many (some DANs say most) ASD kids have

HIGH testosterone.

I doubt if you will find too many here with low testosterone.

The doctor who has worked the most regarding ASD and testosterone is Dr.

Geier. Suggest you here him here:

http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html

I would suggest having a consult with him and at least hear him out.

Victor & <curlytatertot@...> wrote:

He hasn't been on diflucan and hasn't had soy in years. I talked

with Dan Rossignol this morning and he said that most ASD kids have

low testosterone. He said that it was only a very small percentage

that had high testosterone. I still wonder if anyone else has seen

undetectable levels...

> >

> > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

didn't get

> > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested to

know

> > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

nine

> > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their supplements/rxs

that

> > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> >

> >

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

One thing I love about the Geier protocol is that he doesn't just

mix up a standard cocktail for all. He does a full chromosonal and

DNA workup to see if there is any genetic links or possible causes

first....such as Fragile X, Rhetts, prader willie, celiac, etc. I

have 3 on the protocol so far (my 4th one is about to do these labs

once the postman gets here) and they were all on the high end of

testosterone.

Laurel

> > > >

> > > > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

> > didn't get

> > > > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested

> to

> > know

> > > > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was

tested

> > nine

> > > > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their

> supplements/rxs

> > that

> > > > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > with for Mobile. Get started.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I realize doctors are highly opinionated, but I have not seen any data

supporting the

hypothesis these kids have high testosterone. I have heard the claim

repeatedly,

occasionally from a source I consider reputable.

I have seen it LOW more often than not when checked.

Despite assorted psychotic delusions as to where testosterone comes from in

prepubescent children, the most likely cause is adrenal " ick, " whereby the

adrenal glands

make steroid hormones in the wrong ratios and T goes up in order to make enough

cortisol. This is routinely seen in women with mercury problems. Elevated

gonadal

testosterone goes along with elevated LH and FSH - if those are WNL for children

any

testosterone elevation is more likely to be adrenal.

Also the credible reports I have heard were that DHEA AND T were up. DHEA is

made in

the adrenals, no significant amount comes from the testes. This supports the

idea of

adrenal dysfunction as the cause of any elevated T.

If adrenal problems are the cause, adrenal cortex extract is the most likely

solution.

Diflucan does interact with (and block) steroid synthesis, it may reduce T

levels.

Many labs have instruments that are not sensitive enough to measure the lower

range of

NORMAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS in some children. " none detectable " is not

necessarily

abnormal.

Andy

> > > >

> > > > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

> > didn't get

> > > > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested

> to

> > know

> > > > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

> > nine

> > > > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their

> supplements/rxs

> > that

> > > > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > with for Mobile. Get started.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Why don't the doctors " get " this? I was even able to figure it was

adrenal " ick " as you say it. Running a urinary hormonal test, and

just tracking the pattern, it isn't rocket science, it is obvious. A

nice diagram of the hormonal pathways and you can visually " see " it

is coming from the adrenals.

> > > > >

> > > > > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

> > > didn't get

> > > > > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very

interested

> > to

> > > know

> > > > > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was

tested

> > > nine

> > > > > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their

> > supplements/rxs

> > > that

> > > > > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > > with for Mobile. Get started.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>

> Why don't the doctors " get " this? I was even able to figure it was

> adrenal " ick " as you say it. Running a urinary hormonal test, and

> just tracking the pattern, it isn't rocket science, it is obvious. A

> nice diagram of the hormonal pathways and you can visually " see " it

> is coming from the adrenals.

It fascinates me how MD doctors, who actually do have good courses in this stuff

and a

surprising number of them actually do remember it years and years later if you

quiz them,

never ever ever ever ever ever under any circumstances no matter what use their

brains to

actually apply the knowledge they learned in med school to practical clinical

situations

unless they were told to do that in residency.

Most of the other kinds of doctors are much better at this despite generally

pretty inferior

education.

A few alternative MD " s are good at this, but very few.

This particular issue is especially ridiculous because doctors know to pay

attention to

adrenal androgens in women.

This is part of why I say doctors are trained, definitely not educated. If they

were educated

at least a few of them would put together these bits of knowledge they do mostly

have.

But I am really curious how this state of affairs comes to be. There has to be

some

standard part of MD training that induces this cognitive disconnect since they

all do it.

Andy

[Guest guest]

>

There has to be some

> standard part of MD training that induces this cognitive disconnect

since they all do it.

Don't you think the sleep deprivation part of residency knocks out

their capacity to think analytically? At least that would account for

part of the problem.

Nell

[Guest guest]

-----

From: lanellici

>

There has to be some

> standard part of MD training that induces this cognitive disconnect

since they all do it.

Don't you think the sleep deprivation part of residency knocks out

their capacity to think analytically? At least that would account for

part of the problem.

Nell

Nahhh...it happens way before this, drs are born, not made and their careers

are an extension of their personalities. Since I have already offended someone's

country this morning (unintentional) and at the risk of offending the drs, I'll

take a stab at this. There is a whole theory of psychology that deals with why

people choose certain professions and in the interest of fairness if anyone

wants I'll also report on why psychologists are so crazy.

Drs are born with or made/formed within the first six years, personalities

that are highly OCD, and I want them to be if they are overlooking my medical

care, but you know your strength can become your weakness. OCD people are not

exactly avant garde or ever accused of thinking outside the box. They mostly

look around and see what is acceptable and try never to violate these rules.

My favorite (only) sil is not a dr, but is a son of a dr and he personifies

this personality the best I have ever seen. He is terrified of

doing/saying/being something that others might think of as " odd or different or

creative " although he is quite all of these things in addition to being one of

the most brilliant people I have ever met. But he would much rather be safe.

Safe takes precedence over everything.

My dgd has read the student manual from her school and can tell you every

single rule there is, under what circumstances the rule is to be applied and

what exceptions there are to any rule......a future dr in training.

Remember in junior high school and even high school where most of us were

afraid to do or wear or say anything different than anybody for fear of not

being seen as cool? A lot of people learn that there is a big price to pay for

this kind of thinking and mostly abandon it as they grow older in favor of doing

things that might be considered odd by other people, but good for them or

others. I don't think " MOST " drs ever get out of this phase, kind of an

emotionally arrested stage of development.

The other issue is that even in my field, during my training it was drilled

into us that the best way to avoid malpractice suits was to practice in a way so

if you ever had to defend what you had done or not done, you could say you were

following a " standard of care " . A drs biggest fear is a good attorney. As long

as they stay within acceptably traditional treatment they are safe, if they vary

from this, they leave themselves wide open and you do think about this as your

training to become a dr takes about 13 years, same for me.

For this and many other reasons...drs who are quite capable of thinking for

themselves....would just rather not. Again, my apologies to any drs for this

very simplified explanation of how their personalites drive them to choose this

career. I only focused on the problem here and not on the many positive qualites

that also go into a choice of profession.

[Guest guest]

This particular issue is especially ridiculous because doctors know

to pay

attention to

adrenal androgens in women

Isn't this just the same thing we are seeing in the children, and

knowing how to rectify it will take care of the abnormal hormone

levels in the kids? supporting the adrenals?

> >

> > Why don't the doctors " get " this? I was even able to figure it

was

> > adrenal " ick " as you say it. Running a urinary hormonal test, and

> > just tracking the pattern, it isn't rocket science, it is

obvious. A

> > nice diagram of the hormonal pathways and you can visually " see "

it

> > is coming from the adrenals.

>

> It fascinates me how MD doctors, who actually do have good courses

in this stuff and a

> surprising number of them actually do remember it years and years

later if you quiz them,

> never ever ever ever ever ever under any circumstances no matter

what use their brains to

> actually apply the knowledge they learned in med school to

practical clinical situations

> unless they were told to do that in residency.

>

> Most of the other kinds of doctors are much better at this despite

generally pretty inferior

> education.

>

> A few alternative MD " s are good at this, but very few.

>

> This particular issue is especially ridiculous because doctors know

to pay attention to

> adrenal androgens in women.

>

> This is part of why I say doctors are trained, definitely not

educated. If they were educated

> at least a few of them would put together these bits of knowledge

they do mostly have.

> But I am really curious how this state of affairs comes to be.

There has to be some

> standard part of MD training that induces this cognitive disconnect

since they all do it.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Why don't the doctors " get " this? I was even able to figure it

> was

> > > adrenal " ick " as you say it. Running a urinary hormonal test, and

> > > just tracking the pattern, it isn't rocket science, it is

> obvious. A

> > > nice diagram of the hormonal pathways and you can visually " see "

> it

> > > is coming from the adrenals.

> >

> > It fascinates me how MD doctors, who actually do have good courses

> in this stuff and a

> > surprising number of them actually do remember it years and years

> later if you quiz them,

> > never ever ever ever ever ever under any circumstances no matter

> what use their brains to

> > actually apply the knowledge they learned in med school to

> practical clinical situations

> > unless they were told to do that in residency.

> >

> > Most of the other kinds of doctors are much better at this despite

> generally pretty inferior

> > education.

> >

> > A few alternative MD " s are good at this, but very few.

> >

> > This particular issue is especially ridiculous because doctors know

> to pay attention to

> > adrenal androgens in women.

> >

> > This is part of why I say doctors are trained, definitely not

> educated. If they were educated

> > at least a few of them would put together these bits of knowledge

> they do mostly have.

> > But I am really curious how this state of affairs comes to be.

> There has to be some

> > standard part of MD training that induces this cognitive disconnect

> since they all do it.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I do have some knowledge on the matter of high testosterone & autism.

My son has high testosterone and is autistic. I would be happy to email his

numerous labcorp tests to you and anyone else who wishes to see it. I'm not

sure that you would consider me as " reputable " but certainly Labcorp tests

should suffice as reasonable evidence.

Also, I have spoken to numerous other parents here including Geier patients --

many of these kids have high testosterone.

I can not say that I did a survey of normal vs low vs high testosterone but do

know that many autistic kids have high testosterone levels and benefit from

Andy's chelation protocal & Lupron.

Also, FSH & LH are usually normal or slightly LOW in these kids -- again, will

share my son's results if needed.

Yes, DHEA is HIGH.

I will find out how to test " T " levels. If it is high, I'll consider using

ACE. Has ACE helped anyone's adrenal issues? If so, please chime in.

I'm not sure if the problem is limited to just adrenal glands. I don't think

disfunctional adrenal glands by themselves can be responsible for such high

testosterone levels.

andrewhallcutler <AndyCutler@...> wrote:

I realize doctors are highly opinionated, but I have not seen any data

supporting the

hypothesis these kids have high testosterone. I have heard the claim repeatedly,

occasionally from a source I consider reputable.

I have seen it LOW more often than not when checked.

Despite assorted psychotic delusions as to where testosterone comes from in

prepubescent children, the most likely cause is adrenal " ick, " whereby the

adrenal glands

make steroid hormones in the wrong ratios and T goes up in order to make enough

cortisol. This is routinely seen in women with mercury problems. Elevated

gonadal

testosterone goes along with elevated LH and FSH - if those are WNL for children

any

testosterone elevation is more likely to be adrenal.

Also the credible reports I have heard were that DHEA AND T were up. DHEA is

made in

the adrenals, no significant amount comes from the testes. This supports the

idea of

adrenal dysfunction as the cause of any elevated T.

If adrenal problems are the cause, adrenal cortex extract is the most likely

solution.

Diflucan does interact with (and block) steroid synthesis, it may reduce T

levels.

Many labs have instruments that are not sensitive enough to measure the lower

range of

NORMAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS in some children. " none detectable " is not

necessarily

abnormal.

Andy

> > > >

> > > > I posted some out of range labs results a few days ago but

> > didn't get

> > > > any feedback (see msg#193854 & 193850). I am very interested

> to

> > know

> > > > if anyone else has seen low testosterone. My son's was tested

> > nine

> > > > months ago and wasn't flagged as low. Are their

> supplements/rxs

> > that

> > > > can decrease testosterone? Thanks for any feedback.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go

> > with for Mobile. Get started.

> >

> >