Hi, new

[Guest guest]

We were dismissed and blown off for the

first 10 years so I can sympathize totally!

Then one day I had a woman in Blockbuster

approach me and ask if my son had Asperger’s syndrome and that was it, I

refused to be ignored any longer. He had the diagnosis within 3 months of that

trip to Blockbuster. I MADE them listen and someone finally did.

Don’t back down, you know your

child. That is exactly how I saw it…”something was just different”

about him.

Welcome to the group

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006

11:34 PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Hi,

new

Hi everyone,

My name is and we're in the process of having our son Maxwell

tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has, of

course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her son

diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him evaluated,

several have come out and told us they wondered or had other

acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he have soem form

of

autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good results w/

the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2 of

the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son's

diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the process,

of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's. He

handles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl we

already know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.

When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told they

don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recieved

speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he started

school last year I brought it up again since his behavior was a

problem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it was

pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They were

not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking him

out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder because it

was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and plan

to enroll him in first grade here.

I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out what.

And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

~

[Guest guest]

and everyone:

I have been lurking around in the group for a couple of months. I am in Central Illinois.

I always described my son, Max in a similar manner. "He was a little different", "He's not a typical 2-year old" or "He doesn't talk like a 5-year old". He was diagnosed "educationally" as having autism in April and we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd grade. I am certain that we will have differences with the school as how to best meet his needs.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a couple of things I have been wondering about?

1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular activity? And how did that work? What other suggestions do you all have?

2) Have those of you who have children with high functioning autism tell the children they have this? If so, how?

3) Who else do you think should be told? Family members? Friends? Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?

Thanks for any experiences or information that you would like to share.

Audrey

RE: Hi, new

We were dismissed and blown off for the first 10 years so I can sympathize totally!

Then one day I had a woman in Blockbuster approach me and ask if my son had Asperger’s syndrome and that was it, I refused to be ignored any longer. He had the diagnosis within 3 months of that trip to Blockbuster. I MADE them listen and someone finally did.

Don’t back down, you know your child. That is exactly how I saw it…”something was just different” about him.

Welcome to the group

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:34 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Hi, new

Hi everyone,My name is and we're in the process of having our son Maxwelltested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has, ofcourse, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her sondiagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him evaluated,several have come out and told us they wondered or had otheracquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he have soem form ofautism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good results w/the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2 ofthe pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son'sdiagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the process,of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's. Hehandles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl wealready know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told theydon't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recievedspeech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he startedschool last year I brought it up again since his behavior was aproblem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it waspertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They werenot helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking himout and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder because itwas so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and planto enroll him in first grade here.I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out what.And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.~

[Guest guest]

:

If you don't mind me asking, do you recall how your son was behaving in the Blockbuster that may have alerted someone to come up and ask that question? I'm just curious. We are in the process of having my 4 yr. old son evaluated for Aspergers and he often acts out in stores.

Thanks,

Autism and Aspergers Treatment From: scottdesigns@...Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:25:57 -0400Subject: RE: Hi, new

We were dismissed and blown off for the first 10 years so I can sympathize totally!

Then one day I had a woman in Blockbuster approach me and ask if my son had Asperger’s syndrome and that was it, I refused to be ignored any longer. He had the diagnosis within 3 months of that trip to Blockbuster. I MADE them listen and someone finally did.

Don’t back down, you know your child. That is exactly how I saw it…”something was just different” about him.

Welcome to the group

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:34 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Hi, new

Hi everyone,My name is and we're in the process of having our son Maxwelltested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has, ofcourse, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her sondiagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him evaluated,several have come out and told us they wondered or had otheracquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he have soem form ofautism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good results w/the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2 ofthe pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son'sdiagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the process,of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's. Hehandles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl wealready know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told theydon't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recievedspeech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he startedschool last year I brought it up again since his behavior was aproblem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it waspertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They werenot helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking himout and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder because itwas so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and planto enroll him in first grade here.I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out what.And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.~

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free! It's free!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don’t remember exactly what it was

because it was all so “normal” to me that I was not really paying attention.

He was probably perseverating on something I was not going to buy or do for him

in the store. Sounds average enough but it the method and degree to which they

do it that makes them different. You have to remember my son was almost 11

when this happened so that makes them stand out a bit more than the same

behaviors at 4.

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:04

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: RE:

Hi, new

:

If you don't mind me asking, do you recall how your son was behaving in the

Blockbuster that may have alerted someone to come up and ask that

question? I'm just curious. We are in the process of having my 4 yr. old

son evaluated for Aspergers and he often acts out in stores.

Thanks,

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

From: scottdesigns@...

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:25:57 -0400

Subject: RE: Hi, new

We were dismissed and blown off for the

first 10 years so I can sympathize totally!

Then one day I had a woman in Blockbuster

approach me and ask if my son had Asperger’s syndrome and that was it, I

refused to be ignored any longer. He had the diagnosis within 3 months of

that trip to Blockbuster. I MADE them listen and someone finally did.

Don’t back down, you know your

child. That is exactly how I saw it…”something was just different” about

him.

Welcome to the group

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006

11:34 PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Hi,

new

Hi everyone,

My name is and we're in the process of having our son Maxwell

tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has, of

course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her son

diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him evaluated,

several have come out and told us they wondered or had other

acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he have soem form

of

autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good results w/

the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2 of

the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son's

diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the process,

of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's. He

handles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl we

already know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.

When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told they

don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recieved

speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he started

school last year I brought it up again since his behavior was a

problem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it was

pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They were

not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking him

out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder because it

was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and plan

to enroll him in first grade here.

I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out what.

And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

~

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and

more. It's free! It's free!

[Guest guest]

My 2 cents worth--my son is 15yo & just properly diagnosed with

aspergers(he was originally diagnosed at 9 with add/social anxiety)

each child is different so there is no exact way to tell anyone how

to tell there children that they have aspergers,but he/she does have

the right to know so that way they can tackle the issues at hand -

only YOU know ur child so only you will know how to tell him/her**as

for your3rd question....i feel (personally) that anyone whom may

have any contact (regular basis) with your child should know -as to

what you tell them,thats up to you to decide

kathy loser

>

> and everyone:

>

> I have been lurking around in the group for a couple of months. I

am in Central Illinois.

>

> I always described my son, Max in a similar manner. " He was a

little different " , " He's not a typical 2-year old " or " He doesn't

talk like a 5-year old " . He was diagnosed " educationally " as having

autism in April and we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd grade. I

am certain that we will have differences with the school as how to

best meet his needs.

>

> I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a couple of things

I have been wondering about?

>

> 1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular activity? And

how did that work? What other suggestions do you all have?

>

> 2) Have those of you who have children with high functioning

autism tell the children they have this? If so, how?

>

> 3) Who else do you think should be told? Family members?

Friends? Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?

>

> Thanks for any experiences or information that you would like to

share.

>

> Audrey

>

>

>

> Hi, new

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of having our son

Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has,

of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her

son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him

evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he have soem form

of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good

results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2

of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the

process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's.

He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl

we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he

started

> school last year I brought it up again since his behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They

were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking

him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder

because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and

plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out

what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

[Guest guest]

Mike & Audrey wrote:

>

>

> and everyone:

>

> I have been lurking around in the group for a couple of months. I am in

> Central Illinois.

Hi, glad to know you! Annie here, from Albuquerque NM.

>

> 1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular activity? And how did

> that work? What other suggestions do you all have?

Karate, no. I would imagine karate would be a good discipline though.

Special Olympics has a lot to offer if he's old enough to participate.

Some programs let the younger kids train with the older ones, they just

can't participate in the games. Look around your community and see what

the parks dept. has to offer; often, there are after-school recreational

programs aimed at our kids. Call them and ask.

> 2) Have those of you who have children with high functioning

> autism tell the children they have this? If so, how?

Our son Louie, who was dx-ed at 2.5 and is now 26 is HFA/AS. He's

always known it. It wasn't a matter of telling him, it was just a fact

of our family life and of his life. We really didn't want him to be

ashamed or reticent about being an autistic person. And he doesn't.

So you might think about it being just a regular topic of conversation

around your house. Oh, and we never called it a disability to Louie's

face (only to officialdom). It's a " difference. "

> 3) Who else do you think should be told? Family members? Friends?

> Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?

My family (my dh is an orphan) knew about Louie from the getgo. Didn't

make it easy, though. My dad was actually afraid of Louie, of how to

interact with him since he didn't behave or react the way his other

grandsons did. What we did was make arrangements with Louie's

psychologist (who knew autism backward and forward) to meet with us and

my family. This included all 5 of my brothers and sisters, my parents,

Louie's elder sis, and a very close family friend. She explained the

whole thing in depth, in easily understood terms, and then took

questions. And answered them. Things went a lot more smoothly after

that, and we never again heard a comment from anyone in our family about

how if we spanked Louie he'd straighten up and behave. Insofar as

coaches, cub scout leaders, & c, that is a decision you'll have to make

on a case-by-case basis. Mostly based upon how each person might be

expected to react. But to tell you the truth, our guy was known to tell

other adults that he was an autistic person. When he was older, he'd

add " so give me a break! "

> Thanks for any experiences or information that you would like to share.

No problem. That's why I stayed here after Louie moved into assisted

living 5 years ago.

Annie, who loves a annie@...

--

Yes, risk-taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be

called sure-thing-taking. -- Tim McMahon

[Guest guest]

I didn't really tell my 9yr old daughter anything. She

already knows she is different but was relieved when

she met other people that had the same issues as

herself. She was in a social skills group with other

kids on the autism spectrum. Also I do tell friends &

teachers as well as my family. I find that it helps

them understand her need to always think black &

white. The other day I was getting frustrated about

something & I said God help me. responded that

God couldn't possibly help me because he has been dead

for a really long time! We are not religious people

but I have tried to explain religion to her since we

live in a pretty religious town. I was raised Catholic

& that pretty much ruined it for me. Anyway she can't

understand religion anyway because it can't be proven.

I figure if they want to be religious later in life

then they can make their own decision.

E.

Colorado

--- Mike & Audrey <ichabod@...> wrote:

> and everyone:

>

> I have been lurking around in the group for a couple

> of months. I am in Central Illinois.

>

> I always described my son, Max in a similar manner.

> " He was a little different " , " He's not a typical

> 2-year old " or " He doesn't talk like a 5-year old " .

> He was diagnosed " educationally " as having autism in

> April and we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd

> grade. I am certain that we will have differences

> with the school as how to best meet his needs.

>

> I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a

> couple of things I have been wondering about?

>

> 1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular

> activity? And how did that work? What other

> suggestions do you all have?

>

> 2) Have those of you who have children with high

> functioning autism tell the children they have this?

> If so, how?

>

> 3) Who else do you think should be told? Family

> members? Friends? Coaches, cub scout leaders,

> etc.?

>

> Thanks for any experiences or information that you

> would like to share.

>

> Audrey

>

>

>

> Hi, new

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of

> having our son Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure

> what he has, of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She

> just had her son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about

> having him evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or

> had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he

> have soem form of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've

> had good results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've

> discovered that 2 of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend

> w/ her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other

> issues in the process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of

> my husband's. He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort

> knowing that ppl we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/

> Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler,

> I was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified

> for and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.

> When he started

> school last year I brought it up again since his

> behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither

> thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They

> blew me off. They were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we

> ended up taking him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months

> of kinder because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that

> school system and plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just

> need to find out what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

>

>

>

" Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops. "

Cary Grant

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/14/2006 7:54:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scottdesigns@... writes:

He was probably perseverating on something I was not going to buy or do for him in the store

I was just wondering...my son does this until he is in a rage...I do not know anything about aspergers...is this a trait of an aspergers child?

Thank you Lorian

Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com

[Guest guest]

HI Audrey

I live in North Central IL. I saw your email to this list. I have been on this list for about 5 years or more.

My son is 17, and starting his senior year of high school in mid August. We moved to this part of IL, from Michigan, when he was almost 3.

My other son is 12 and starting 7th grade. The son who is a senior , age 17, is Aspergers and ADHD.

Welcome to the list.

Oh, you asked some questions, and I will see if I can help answer some.

Yes, my son knows that he has Aspergers. However, we only knew that he was only severe ADHD until he was age ten , in 1999. At that time, he was diagnosed with Aspergers as well.

We did not really start to tell him too much about Aspergers until he was in Junior high. At times he hates and still does, but more so when younger, his "disabilities," as he feels others hold those against him. He also feels that they give him less of a chance in things in life. He has maintained all As since 5th grade and all through high school, has a 4/3 out of a 4.0 and does well, takes a few honor's classes and took Chemistry and Algebra 2 and got over a 100%. He is very bright. He lacks social skills with others. He is on the school chess team, but he lacks friendships. He does not seem to care too much, as at home he loves to read, go on the computer, play chess games online against people, and he loves to watch TV. He also plays with his brother, well, at home, and his brother, is age 12.

About Karate, some say that has helped with their child's concentration and also listening and learning skills. My son does not seem the type to do well in sports or activities such as that, and he has always had a hard time with others doing things well, and him not doing as well. He has a tough time when people get tough with him. So, over all , due to those reasons, I kept him out of karate.

in North Central Illinois!

[Guest guest]

my daughter is 12 and has autism. she's pretty high functioning, but i wouldn't say she quite qualifies as HFA. last sept. i found a karate class that was to have an OT to assist special needs kids in integrating in a regular karate class. i signed her up, afraid i would have to pull her out after a few sessions due to behavior problems.

to my shock, she loved it! with a lot less assistance than i expected, she managed to do everything the other kids did, as well as attend and behave. i never would have believed it. she is now an advanced white belt and will be returning to the class this sept.

I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM

[Guest guest]

Definately, YES! Welcome by the way. One of my sons is

bipolar and aspergers the other is OCD, aspergers and they

both have anxiety. Alot of different diagnosis' go along

with aspergers. From your other post in my opinion he

definately sounds like he is aspergers. Just my humble

opinion. I am no expert. You could check out Oasis

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/ and

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/ Toni

>

>

> In a message dated 7/14/2006 7:54:16 PM Pacific Daylight

> Time, scottdesigns@... writes:

>

> He was probably perseverating on something I was not

> going to buy or do for him in the store

>

>

> I was just wondering...my son does this until he is in a

> rage...I do not know anything about aspergers...is this

> a trait of an aspergers child? Thank you Lorian

>

> _Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE -

> PaperBackSwap.com_

> (http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2)

>

I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy

today. I can CHOOSE which it shall be. Groucho Marx

_________________________________________

Check your Email accounts at MyEmail.com

Login from home, work, school. Anywhere!

[Guest guest]

good luck, carrie. stay on them. my son wasn't

diagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the same

thing. no one wanted to put a " label " on him that

young. it makes it hard to get services without a

diagnosis. push push push for answers.

carrie

--- <carriebeary77@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of having

> our son Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure

> what he has, of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She

> just had her son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about

> having him evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or

> had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he

> have soem form of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've

> had good results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've

> discovered that 2 of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/

> her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues

> in the process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my

> husband's. He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort

> knowing that ppl we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/

> Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I

> was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for

> and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.

> When he started

> school last year I brought it up again since his

> behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither

> thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew

> me off. They were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we

> ended up taking him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of

> kinder because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school

> system and plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just need

> to find out what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The older my son gets the better that

gets, if he is in a really “bad place” he will get to that

point.

If he is holding in a build up of things

that are bothering him and something doesn’t go his way he will blow,

public place and all!

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of ladylorien3@...

Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006

10:33 PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Hi, new

In a message dated 7/14/2006 7:54:16 PM

Pacific Daylight Time, scottdesigns@...

writes:

He was probably perseverating on something

I was not going to buy or do for him in the store

I was just wondering...my son does this

until he is in a rage...I do not know anything about aspergers...is this a

trait of an aspergers child?

Thank you Lorian

Join our club and swap

paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com

[Guest guest]

I haven't tried karate with my son but I can answer some of your other questions:

has aspergers syndrome and he knows all about it. He is nearly 9 and was diagnosed just over a year ago. We always knew he was a little different and I think he knew it too. As soon as he was diagnosed we tried to explain AS to him. He didn't like it at first but now he's okay with it.

We didn't really tell him, so much as he was sitting in the doctor's office, through all the testing etc and when she told me he had AS he was right there in the room.

As far as telling people, I tell just about everyone. I have a long talk with his teacher every year to make sure she understands his differences. Also, his Cub leaders know, all our friends, family members etc. It's part of who he is. Most people notice is different and I have no problem telling people why and how he is different. I'd rather have people know about the AS then to think he's a really rotten kid, or a weird kid or whatever.

Estevan, Saskatchewan

Canada

-- Re: Hi, new

and everyone:

I have been lurking around in the group for a couple of months. I am in Central Illinois.

I always described my son, Max in a similar manner. "He was a little different", "He's not a typical 2-year old" or "He doesn't talk like a 5-year old". He was diagnosed "educationally" as having autism in April and we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd grade. I am certain that we will have differences with the school as how to best meet his needs.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a couple of things I have been wondering about?

1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular activity? And how did that work? What other suggestions do you all have?

2) Have those of you who have children with high functioning autism tell the children they have this? If so, how?

3) Who else do you think should be told? Family members? Friends? Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?

Thanks for any experiences or information that you would like to share.

Audrey

RE: Hi, new

We were dismissed and blown off for the first 10 years so I can sympathize totally!

Then one day I had a woman in Blockbuster approach me and ask if my son had Asperger’s syndrome and that was it, I refused to be ignored any longer. He had the diagnosis within 3 months of that trip to Blockbuster. I MADE them listen and someone finally did.

Don’t back down, you know your child. That is exactly how I saw it…”something was just different” about him.

Welcome to the group

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:34 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Hi, new

Hi everyone,My name is and we're in the process of having our son Maxwelltested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure what he has, ofcourse, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She just had her sondiagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about having him evaluated,several have come out and told us they wondered or had otheracquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he have soem form ofautism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've had good results w/the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've discovered that 2 ofthe pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/ her son'sdiagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues in the process,of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my husband's. Hehandles their computer network. It's a comfort knowing that ppl wealready know may possibly be closely involved w/ Max's care.When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I was told theydon't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for and recievedspeech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests. When he startedschool last year I brought it up again since his behavior was aproblem for the teacher & principal, but neither thought it waspertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew me off. They werenot helpful in many other ways, as well, and we ended up taking himout and home schooling him for the last 2 months of kinder because itwas so bad. We also moved totally out of that school system and planto enroll him in first grade here.I KNOW something is different about him, I just need to find out what.And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.~

[Guest guest]

I tell people abpout me too , I have Aspergers and

would rather have themm know than them thinking i am

weird or something.

Kirk Herbertson

--- & Godfrey <wmgodfrey@...>

wrote:

> I haven't tried karate with my son but I can answer

> some of your other

> questions:

>

> has aspergers syndrome and he knows all about

> it. He is nearly 9 and

> was diagnosed just over a year ago. We always knew

> he was a little different

> and I think he knew it too. As soon as he was

> diagnosed we tried to

> explain AS to him. He didn't like it at first but

> now he's okay with it.

> We didn't really tell him, so much as he was sitting

> in the doctor's office,

> through all the testing etc and when she told me he

> had AS he was right

> there in the room.

>

> As far as telling people, I tell just about

> everyone. I have a long talk

> with his teacher every year to make sure she

> understands his differences.

> Also, his Cub leaders know, all our friends, family

> members etc. It's part

> of who he is. Most people notice is different

> and I have no problem

> telling people why and how he is different. I'd

> rather have people know

> about the AS then to think he's a really rotten kid,

> or a weird kid or

> whatever.

>

>

> Estevan, Saskatchewan

> Canada

>

> -- Re: Hi, new

>

> and everyone:

>

> I have been lurking around in the group for a couple

> of months. I am in

> Central Illinois.

>

> I always described my son, Max in a similar manner.

> " He was a little

> different " , " He's not a typical 2-year old " or " He

> doesn't talk like a

> 5-year old " . He was diagnosed " educationally " as

> having autism in April and

> we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd grade. I am

> certain that we will

> have differences with the school as how to best meet

> his needs.

>

> I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a

> couple of things I have

> been wondering about?

>

> 1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular

> activity? And how did

> that work? What other suggestions do you all have?

>

> 2) Have those of you who have children with high

> functioning autism tell

> the children they have this? If so, how?

>

> 3) Who else do you think should be told? Family

> members? Friends?

> Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?

>

> Thanks for any experiences or information that you

> would like to share.

>

> Audrey

>

>

>

> Hi, new

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of having

> our son Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure

> what he has, of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She

> just had her son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about

> having him evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or

> had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he

> have soem form of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've

> had good results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've

> discovered that 2 of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/

> her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues

> in the process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my

> husband's. He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort

> knowing that ppl we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/

> Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I

> was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for

> and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.

> When he started

> school last year I brought it up again since his

> behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither

> thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew

> me off. They were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we

> ended up taking him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of

> kinder because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school

> system and plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just need

> to find out what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Lorien, obsessing about things and then reacting badly to the point of meltdown when they do not get what they want is certainly a trait I have seen in my dd if that helps.... DeeDeeladylorien3@... wrote: In a message dated 7/14/2006 7:54:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, scottdesigns@... writes: He

was probably perseverating on something I was not going to buy or do for him in the store I was just wondering...my son does this until he is in a rage...I do not know anything about aspergers...is this a trait of an aspergers child? Thank you Lorian Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

One of my sons therapists actually laughed

at me when I told him about the diagnosis! He said “why would you

let them put such a heavy label on him?” That was our LAST

conversation.

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of carrie stapp

Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:37

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Hi, new

good luck, carrie. stay on them. my son wasn't

diagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the same

thing. no one wanted to put a " label " on him that

young. it makes it hard to get services without a

diagnosis. push push push for answers.

carrie

--- <carriebeary77 >

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of having

> our son Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure

> what he has, of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She

> just had her son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about

> having him evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or

> had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he

> have soem form of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've

> had good results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've

> discovered that 2 of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/

> her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues

> in the process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my

> husband's. He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort

> knowing that ppl we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/

> Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I

> was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for

> and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.

> When he started

> school last year I brought it up again since his

> behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither

> thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew

> me off. They were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we

> ended up taking him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of

> kinder because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school

> system and plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just need

> to find out what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Something I've learned in my short time as a parent of an autistic child...you almost HAVE to put a label on the kids to get adequate help. Some of these school districts around here won't spend an extra dime on helping our kids without a diagnosis or "label".

RE: Hi, new

One of my sons therapists actually laughed at me when I told him about the diagnosis! He said “why would you let them put such a heavy label on him?” That was our LAST conversation.

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of carrie stappSent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:37 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Hi, new

good luck, carrie. stay on them. my son wasn'tdiagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the samething. no one wanted to put a "label" on him thatyoung. it makes it hard to get services without adiagnosis. push push push for answers. carrie --- <carriebeary77 > wrote:> Hi everyone,> > My name is and we're in the process of having> our son Maxwell> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure> what he has, of> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She> just had her son> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about> having him evaluated,> several have come out and told us they wondered or> had other> acquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he> have soem form of> autism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've> had good results w/> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've> discovered that 2 of> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/> her son's> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues> in the process,> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my> husband's. He> handles their computer network. It's a comfort> knowing that ppl we> already know may possibly be closely involved w/> Max's care.> > When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I> was told they> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for> and recieved> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.> When he started> school last year I brought it up again since his> behavior was a> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither> thought it was> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew> me off. They were> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we> ended up taking him> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of> kinder because it> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school> system and plan> to enroll him in first grade here.> > I KNOW something is different about him, I just need> to find out what.> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.> > ~ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Something I've learned in my short time as a parent of an autistic child...you almost HAVE to put a label on the kids to get adequate help. Some of these school districts around here won't spend an extra dime on helping our kids without a diagnosis or "label".

RE: Hi, new

One of my sons therapists actually laughed at me when I told him about the diagnosis! He said “why would you let them put such a heavy label on him?” That was our LAST conversation.

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of carrie stappSent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:37 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Hi, new

good luck, carrie. stay on them. my son wasn'tdiagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the samething. no one wanted to put a "label" on him thatyoung. it makes it hard to get services without adiagnosis. push push push for answers. carrie --- <carriebeary77 > wrote:> Hi everyone,> > My name is and we're in the process of having> our son Maxwell> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure> what he has, of> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She> just had her son> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about> having him evaluated,> several have come out and told us they wondered or> had other> acquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he> have soem form of> autism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've> had good results w/> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've> discovered that 2 of> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/> her son's> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues> in the process,> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my> husband's. He> handles their computer network. It's a comfort> knowing that ppl we> already know may possibly be closely involved w/> Max's care.> > When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I> was told they> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for> and recieved> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.> When he started> school last year I brought it up again since his> behavior was a> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither> thought it was> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew> me off. They were> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we> ended up taking him> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of> kinder because it> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school> system and plan> to enroll him in first grade here.> > I KNOW something is different about him, I just need> to find out what.> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.> > ~ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

-------Original Message-------

From: Kirk Herbertson

Date: 07/19/06 05:12:12

I tell people abpout me too , I have Aspergers and

would rather have themm know than them thinking i am

weird or something.

Kirk Herbertson

************************

I tell people I mix with a lot so they will know WHY I am weird

[Guest guest]

Kirk, Matt believes this too. As he has gotten older he feels more and more comfortable talking to people about his Asperger's. He also gets upset when he hears about the movement to "cure" autism. He wonders why people would want to cure it. That there is nothing wrong with it. When they say they want to cure autism it's like they are rejecting the person who has autism. AnnKirk Herbertson <writer362003@...> wrote: I tell people abpout

me too , I have Aspergers andwould rather have themm know than them thinking i amweird or something.Kirk Herbertson--- & Godfrey <wmgodfreysasktel (DOT) net>wrote:> I haven't tried karate with my son but I can answer> some of your other> questions:> > has aspergers syndrome and he knows all about> it. He is nearly 9 and> was diagnosed just over a year ago. We always knew> he was a little different> and I think he knew it too. As soon as he was> diagnosed we tried to> explain AS to him. He didn't like it at first but> now he's okay with it. > We didn't really tell him, so much as he was sitting> in the doctor's office,> through all the testing etc and when she told me he> had AS he was right> there in the room.> > As far as telling people, I

tell just about> everyone. I have a long talk> with his teacher every year to make sure she> understands his differences.> Also, his Cub leaders know, all our friends, family> members etc. It's part> of who he is. Most people notice is different> and I have no problem> telling people why and how he is different. I'd> rather have people know> about the AS then to think he's a really rotten kid,> or a weird kid or> whatever.> > > Estevan, Saskatchewan> Canada> > -- Re: Hi, new> > and everyone:> > I have been lurking around in the group for a couple>

of months. I am in> Central Illinois. > > I always described my son, Max in a similar manner. > "He was a little> different", "He's not a typical 2-year old" or "He> doesn't talk like a> 5-year old". He was diagnosed "educationally" as> having autism in April and> we now have a 504 for him to begin 2nd grade. I am> certain that we will> have differences with the school as how to best meet> his needs. > > I was wondering if anyone has any insight about a> couple of things I have> been wondering about?> > 1) Has anyone tried karate as an extracurricular> activity? And how did> that work? What other suggestions do you all have?> > 2) Have those of you who have children with high> functioning autism tell> the children they have this? If so, how?> > 3) Who else do you think should be told?

Family> members? Friends? > Coaches, cub scout leaders, etc.?> > Thanks for any experiences or information that you> would like to share.> > Audrey> > > > Hi, new> Hi everyone,> > My name is and we're in the process of having> our son Maxwell> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure> what he has, of> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She> just had her son> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about> having him evaluated,> several have come out and told us they

wondered or> had other> acquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he> have soem form of> autism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've> had good results w/> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've> discovered that 2 of> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/> her son's> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues> in the process,> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my> husband's. He> handles their computer network. It's a comfort> knowing that ppl we> already know may possibly be closely involved w/> Max's care.> > When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I> was told they> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for> and recieved> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.> When he started> school last year I brought it up

again since his> behavior was a> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither> thought it was> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew> me off. They were> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we> ended up taking him> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of> kinder because it> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school> system and plan> to enroll him in first grade here.> > I KNOW something is different about him, I just need> to find out what.> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.> > ~ > > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

This is very true. And, I have heard that with the new No Child Left Behind Act, they are tightening up on even the kids who have a label. I don't know much about the NCLB Act, my son was out of HS when this came to be. Ann <freecyclemail@...> wrote: Something I've learned in my short time as a parent of an autistic child...you almost HAVE to put a label on the kids to get adequate help. Some of these school districts around here won't

spend an extra dime on helping our kids without a diagnosis or "label". RE: Hi, new One of my sons therapists actually laughed at me when I told him about the diagnosis! He said “why would you let them put such a heavy label on him?” That was our LAST conversation. Charlotte From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of carrie stappSent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:37 PMAutism and Aspergers Treatment Subject: Re: Hi, new good luck, carrie. stay on them. my son

wasn'tdiagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the samething. no one wanted to put a "label" on him thatyoung. it makes it hard to get services without adiagnosis. push push push for answers. carrie --- <carriebeary77 > wrote:> Hi everyone,> > My name is and we're in the process of having> our son Maxwell> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure> what he has, of> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She> just had her son> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about> having him evaluated,> several have come out and told us they wondered or> had other> acquaintances ask, "Is Max autistic?" or "Does he> have soem form of> autism?" It's been a trying week for us, but we've> had good results w/> the agencies we've

contacted. In my area, I've> discovered that 2 of> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/> her son's> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues> in the process,> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my> husband's. He> handles their computer network. It's a comfort> knowing that ppl we> already know may possibly be closely involved w/> Max's care.> > When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I> was told they> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for> and recieved> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.> When he started> school last year I brought it up again since his> behavior was a> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither> thought it was> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew> me off. They were> not helpful

in many other ways, as well, and we> ended up taking him> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of> kinder because it> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school> system and plan> to enroll him in first grade here.> > I KNOW something is different about him, I just need> to find out what.> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.> > ~ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

I did run into him about 4 or 5 months

later and he asked how he was doing. I said he is doing WAY better since the

diagnosis, he understands himself, we understand him and the school has given

him all the services they’d been denying.

He was speechless.

Charlotte

From: Autism and Aspergers Treatment [mailto:Autism and Aspergers Treatment ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:15

PM

Autism and Aspergers Treatment

Subject: Re:

Hi, new

Something I've learned in my short time as a parent of an

autistic child...you almost HAVE to put a label on the kids to get adequate

help. Some of these school districts around here won't spend an extra

dime on helping our kids without a diagnosis or " label " .

Re:

Hi, new

good

luck, carrie. stay on them. my son wasn't

diagnosed until he was almost 8 because of the same

thing. no one wanted to put a " label " on him that

young. it makes it hard to get services without a

diagnosis. push push push for answers.

carrie

--- <carriebeary77 >

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is and we're in the process of having

> our son Maxwell

> tested for autism. He is 6 yrs old. We're not sure

> what he has, of

> course, but he is a CLONE to my friend's son. She

> just had her son

> diagnosed. Since we've talked w/ friends about

> having him evaluated,

> several have come out and told us they wondered or

> had other

> acquaintances ask, " Is Max autistic? " or " Does he

> have soem form of

> autism? " It's been a trying week for us, but we've

> had good results w/

> the agencies we've contacted. In my area, I've

> discovered that 2 of

> the pediatric neurologists that helped my friend w/

> her son's

> diagnosis (they wnated to rule out some other issues

> in the process,

> of course) is actually a business acquaintance of my

> husband's. He

> handles their computer network. It's a comfort

> knowing that ppl we

> already know may possibly be closely involved w/

> Max's care.

>

> When I wanted Max tested for autism as a toddler, I

> was told they

> don't like to diagnose that young. He qualified for

> and recieved

> speech therapy, however, as well as hearing tests.

> When he started

> school last year I brought it up again since his

> behavior was a

> problem for the teacher & principal, but neither

> thought it was

> pertinent to pursue an evauation for him. They blew

> me off. They were

> not helpful in many other ways, as well, and we

> ended up taking him

> out and home schooling him for the last 2 months of

> kinder because it

> was so bad. We also moved totally out of that school

> system and plan

> to enroll him in first grade here.

>

> I KNOW something is different about him, I just need

> to find out what.

> And I won't be blown of or dismissed again.

>

> ~

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ann Cioffi wrote:

>

>

> Kirk,

>

> He also gets upset when he hears about the movement to " cure " autism.

> He wonders why people would want to cure it. That there is nothing

> wrong with it. When they say they want to cure autism it's like they

> are rejecting the person who has autism.

My son feels the same way. Except he calls it " genocide, " a word he

looked up because he'd heard it on a TV program (he watches a lot of

factual stuff). And I've always said he *is* typical: he's a typical

autistic person....only sometimes I say " normal " instead of " typical, "

depending on who I'm talking to.

He calls us typicals the " other people " BTW. His own peers are the

" regular " people.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

Yes, risk-taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be

called sure-thing-taking. -- Tim McMahon

[Guest guest]

Ann Cioffi wrote:

>

>

> Kirk,

>

> He also gets upset when he hears about the movement to " cure " autism.

> He wonders why people would want to cure it. That there is nothing

> wrong with it. When they say they want to cure autism it's like they

> are rejecting the person who has autism.

My son feels the same way. Except he calls it " genocide, " a word he

looked up because he'd heard it on a TV program (he watches a lot of

factual stuff). And I've always said he *is* typical: he's a typical

autistic person....only sometimes I say " normal " instead of " typical, "

depending on who I'm talking to.

He calls us typicals the " other people " BTW. His own peers are the

" regular " people.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

Yes, risk-taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be

called sure-thing-taking. -- Tim McMahon