Re: ()autistic child in church

[Guest guest]

There is

sometimes a balance somewhere between teaching children (Nt or otherwise) to be

in an environment like church I don’t believe all kids CAN exist in a

sanctuary environment, it is beyond their capabilities. I see, over and

over again, kids I know are typical children, misbehave consistently more than

mine, talking (not echoing) during the service, or going in and out several

times, for example. Since fellowship doesn’t seem to be a benefit

to our being at church, I have starting to entertain the thought of doing TV

church if for some reason the meds don’t continue to work. (It will be

many years before the phase of building the sanctuary happens and until then we

will be setting up temporarily in the new gym. They build the gym and

educational building first. Our experience has been that we were very accepted,

perhaps tolerated is more the word, in the very small church we were in when

our dd was born. Several were witness to how she changed at around

2.5. However, I still felt from the “old schoolers” that I

should have been “making her mind”. The church was way too

small and never really grew except with “old schoolers”, and it was

such that if my kids or the few others wanted a teacher I would have to do

it. I did for a while, but it clearly wasn’t working and my

daughter was 7 at the time and the youngest member of the church. She had

no one to model behavior from or learn with and she really didn’t want to

learn from me. So we changed churches. Since I spent the 7 years we

were members as a teacher, I never got to know any adults and really missed

fellowship as the ladies fellowships were always at night and I had no respite

and my husband had to work an extra job. The church we are in now, after

a year, I really don’t know how we are perceived. They love the

kids, and I know they wish we were able to help more. There was already

another family active in the church (I believe this family has more support

than we do in the way of family helping them out) and their child with autism

was much better behaving than ours, so we were possibly compared, especially

since they do big things like lead Bible study, choir, and I haven’t

managed to do squat, but chase our daughter, back out of committments and try

to keep her on task and then quiet in church. Yes, we have had to take

her out kicking and screaming a couple times, but so far, not since she has

been on meds. I swore each of those times I was never going back

again. But, still hungry for potential fellowship, my aunt (and closest

friend) and my husband’s parents go there as well. So we have that

as support. My husband’s parents changed churches with us.

Our daughter (ASD), she is in the group that is a year younger than her, since

she was also held back in kindergarten, but she is just happy to belong and

when she invites a friend to come to activities, they’ll be with their

age group, it has happened once before. Our son, AS, is having difficulty

clicking with anyone, because his class has grown in the last year after we

came and he goes because he is learning and likes his teachers. But it is

getting more difficult as he gets older, and with his ADD, it is a struggle sitting

through church. But to his credit, we trained him to sit in church and

has done so very well since he was 3-perhaps it was the aspie in him – rule

abiding (may take awhile when the ADD gets in the way and he gets distracted).

Our church is building a new church and with my and others input is going to

put in a fallout room (therapy room) near the sanctuary in the new building

with speakers to be able to hear the music or sermon.

I don’t

blame anyone for pulling out of church.

If you weren’t loved in the beginning of it all, as someone quoted “as

unto the least of these” it is very difficult to break in. Most

churches are understaffed and overworked -because we used to be in that group,

that is normal for ministry and prior to autism and aspergers, I loved

teaching. Now, I really don’t know how to work with typical kiddos

anymore, however I am going to try this summer teaching vacation bible school.,

just to see if I can again. I used to for 10 years. I keep trying to help

do things at church, but our daughter’s behavior and adjusting to meds

changed our priorities. When our daughter is having a rough morning after

having a rough night, we don’t just go because we should, we know the

potential outcome. Yes, God wants us to worship and fellowship, but when

others don’t want to fellowship with us, we have little choice. I

have known folks to only stay for Sunday school, or the music part of worship.

But then there are some churches adapting and making things possible for

families to come back. Let’s face it, most of us wouldn’t be

holding up as well, if we didn’t have our beliefs systems instilled in us

to begin with. I have to deal with recurring anger in all of it.

RL

[Guest guest]

is this a list you are making for your church? Self? What? I think it is very, very, true....just wondering what you will be using it for....I think it is great though.........Ruthie

From: genasu@...Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:34:33 -0500Subject: RE: ( )autistic child in church

Honestly too,

we all work hard to just make our daily lives function, we end up doing more stuff at home because it is more difficult to get our kiddos to help,

we all work hard to get our kids what they need at school – these two alone are things others just take for granted, then, instead of just sending one or more of our kids to a sleepover –

we’re concerned about them even having real friends to hang with, we initiate contacts, go to meetups, go places to work on social skills,

some of us fill in those gaps that would normally be spent with friends, to ease some lonliness,

I also volunteer at school during the year to keep in touch with what is really going on with the kids since I don’t always get a story or one with the correct point of view. I am already tapped.

I also have to see about my mom’s needs who has alzheimers in a good home an hour away, shop for her clothes year round- for bargains -because her clothes so often get misplaced, visit her because I miss her and visit her more when I can because she doesn’t have other family to do so. Gee, churchwork?? I just don’t see where anything more than temporary filling in here and there is possible. Someone not show up for nursery, sure, if I am there, I’ll fill in. Need crowd control for the KidZone kids? If I got more than 4 hours of sleep and our daughter did too and we’re there, sure?

some of us actually work part or full-time

Didn’t mean to put this near the bottom, but if we’re married, we need spouse time

Some of us spend extra time cooking for various diets, be it heart healthy, to lose weight or gluten free

How about just spending time as a family or doing stuff with the kids – after feeling like living in a cave for several years, I feel like we are finally getting to do that stuff

team sports? Yea right!!!!! At least not us (you’d have to know how coordinated we are here to understand why this is funny) but some folks do this for some of the kids if not all in their family

activities like tai kwon do, etc., we are just starting this for our 9 y/o.

[Guest guest]

very impressive and well written....thanks for your side. Ruthie

From: genasu@...Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:12:04 -0500Subject: RE: ( )autistic child in church

There is sometimes a balance somewhere between teaching children (Nt or otherwise) to be in an environment like church I don’t believe all kids CAN exist in a sanctuary environment, it is beyond their capabilities. I see, over and over again, kids I know are typical children, misbehave consistently more than mine, talking (not echoing) during the service, or going in and out several times, for example. Since fellowship doesn’t seem to be a benefit to our being at church, I have starting to entertain the thought of doing TV church if for some reason the meds don’t continue to work. (It will be many years before the phase of building the sanctuary happens and until then we will be setting up temporarily in the new gym. They build the gym and educational building first. Our experience has been that we were very accepted, perhaps tolerated is more the word, in the very small church we were in when our dd was born. Several were witness to how she changed at around 2.5. However, I still felt from the “old schoolers” that I should have been “making her mind”. The church was way too small and never really grew except with “old schoolers”, and it was such that if my kids or the few others wanted a teacher I would have to do it. I did for a while, but it clearly wasn’t working and my daughter was 7 at the time and the youngest member of the church. She had no one to model behavior from or learn with and she really didn’t want to learn from me. So we changed churches. Since I spent the 7 years we were members as a teacher, I never got to know any adults and really missed fellowship as the ladies fellowships were always at night and I had no respite and my husband had to work an extra job. The church we are in now, after a year, I really don’t know how we are perceived. They love the kids, and I know they wish we were able to help more. There was already another family active in the church (I believe this family has more support than we do in the way of family helping them out) and their child with autism was much better behaving than ours, so we were possibly compared, especially since they do big things like lead Bible study, choir, and I haven’t managed to do squat, but chase our daughter, back out of committments and try to keep her on task and then quiet in church. Yes, we have had to take her out kicking and screaming a couple times, but so far, not since she has been on meds. I swore each of those times I was never going back again. But, still hungry for potential fellowship, my aunt (and closest friend) and my husband’s parents go there as well. So we have that as support. My husband’s parents changed churches with us. Our daughter (ASD), she is in the group that is a year younger than her, since she was also held back in kindergarten, but she is just happy to belong and when she invites a friend to come to activities, they’ll be with their age group, it has happened once before. Our son, AS, is having difficulty clicking with anyone, because his class has grown in the last year after we came and he goes because he is learning and likes his teachers. But it is getting more difficult as he gets older, and with his ADD, it is a struggle sitting through church. But to his credit, we trained him to sit in church and has done so very well since he was 3-perhaps it was the aspie in him – rule abiding (may take awhile when the ADD gets in the way and he gets distracted). Our church is building a new church and with my and others input is going to put in a fallout room (therapy room) near the sanctuary in the new building with speakers to be able to hear the music or sermon.

I don’t blame anyone for pulling out of church. If you weren’t loved in the beginning of it all, as someone quoted “as unto the least of these” it is very difficult to break in. Most churches are understaffed and overworked -because we used to be in that group, that is normal for ministry and prior to autism and aspergers, I loved teaching. Now, I really don’t know how to work with typical kiddos anymore, however I am going to try this summer teaching vacation bible school., just to see if I can again. I used to for 10 years. I keep trying to help do things at church, but our daughter’s behavior and adjusting to meds changed our priorities. When our daughter is having a rough morning after having a rough night, we don’t just go because we should, we know the potential outcome. Yes, God wants us to worship and fellowship, but when others don’t want to fellowship with us, we have little choice. I have known folks to only stay for Sunday school, or the music part of worship. But then there are some churches adapting and making things possible for families to come back. Let’s face it, most of us wouldn’t be holding up as well, if we didn’t have our beliefs systems instilled in us to begin with. I have to deal with recurring anger in all of it.

RL

[Guest guest]

Ruthie,

Not sure, I think I just collected my

thoughts and realized that I seem to just felt like venting – until I started

typing, I don’t think I ever give myself any credit, and certainly don’t

think I am ever honest when anyone asks how I am. Maybe someday I’ll

write a book, It’ll be a chapter like the chapters containing memoirs of

people I have met, the many jobs I have had, words and phrases I never thought I’d

have to say as a parent, . Like the first job as a maid, why I’ll

never lay on top of a bedspread…. Wild tales from the inside of a pizza

delivery place…how to get a forklift stuck inside a freezer at Sam’s

club…. I like making lists – I have even been known to make a

list and put making a list at the top just so I can mark it off..

Regina

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of BRYAN DOLEZAL

Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:51

PM

To:

Aspergers Treatment

Subject: RE:

( )autistic child in church

is this a list you are making for your church?

Self? What? I think it is very, very, true....just wondering what

you will be using it for....I think it is great though.........Ruthie

..

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ruthie

Regina

[Guest guest]

Cute....I want the stories to all of 'em already!! Especially how to get a forklift stuck inside a freezer..... OKAY, I really want to hear the 'why I'll never lay on top of a bedspread....(I may know---and, if you are talking HOTEL----it is scary isn't it???----depends upon the 'maid,' and where it was, etc.

Just call the book.............LISTS....................lol......

Ruthie

From: genasu@...Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:22:34 -0500Subject: RE: ( )autistic child in church

Ruthie,

Not sure, I think I just collected my thoughts and realized that I seem to just felt like venting – until I started typing, I don’t think I ever give myself any credit, and certainly don’t think I am ever honest when anyone asks how I am. Maybe someday I’ll write a book, It’ll be a chapter like the chapters containing memoirs of people I have met, the many jobs I have had, words and phrases I never thought I’d have to say as a parent, . Like the first job as a maid, why I’ll never lay on top of a bedspread…. Wild tales from the inside of a pizza delivery place…how to get a forklift stuck inside a freezer at Sam’s club…. I like making lists – I have even been known to make a list and put making a list at the top just so I can mark it off..

Regina

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of BRYAN DOLEZALSent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:51 PMAspergers Treatment Subject: RE: ( )autistic child in church

is this a list you are making for your church? Self? What? I think it is very, very, true....just wondering what you will be using it for....I think it is great though.........Ruthie

..

[Guest guest]

Right on Genasu!! & I just finished teaching the 4th graders in

Sunday School, and on top of the rest of life's demands, we are

feeling so burned out right now. We are not re-enlisting for next

school year. If I'm not able to serve without the distractions of my

challenging kids, then I should let someone else step in to serve. I

just came to that conclusion last night when the children's minister

sent us a survey to get feedback on how the year went. I think he

could feel my bitterness in my responses. On top of my already

stressful life, the stupid curriculum they chose made it so stressful

every single week when we sat down to prepare. Fortunately my son can

still behave adequately in the children's classroom so we can at least

attend most of the time. But he can't handle big church or the very,

very noisy children's worship time. But I try to pray without

ceasing, listen to Christian music and have some quiet times when I

can. I think God understands.

>

> Honestly too,

>

> 1. we all work hard to just make our daily lives function, we end

up doing more stuff at home because it is more difficult to get our

kiddos to help,

> 2. we all work hard to get our kids what they need at school -

these two alone are things others just take for granted, then, instead

of just sending one or more of our kids to a sleepover -

> 3. we're concerned about them even having real friends to hang

with, we initiate contacts, go to meetups, go places to work on social

skills,

> 4. some of us fill in those gaps that would normally be spent with

friends, to ease some lonliness,

> 5. I also volunteer at school during the year to keep in touch

with what is really going on with the kids since I don't always get a

story or one with the correct point of view. I am already tapped.

> 6. I also have to see about my mom's needs who has alzheimers in a

good home an hour away, shop for her clothes year round- for bargains

-because her clothes so often get misplaced, visit her because I miss

her and visit her more when I can because she doesn't have other

family to do so. Gee, churchwork?? I just don't see where anything

more than temporary filling in here and there is possible. Someone

not show up for nursery, sure, if I am there, I'll fill in. Need

crowd control for the KidZone kids? If I got more than 4 hours of

sleep and our daughter did too and we're there, sure?

> 7. some of us actually work part or full-time

> 8. Didn't mean to put this near the bottom, but if we're married,

we need spouse time

> 9. Some of us spend extra time cooking for various diets, be it

heart healthy, to lose weight or gluten free

> 10. How about just spending time as a family or doing stuff with

the kids - after feeling like living in a cave for several years, I

feel like we are finally getting to do that stuff

> 11. team sports? Yea right!!!!! At least not us (you'd have to

know how coordinated we are here to understand why this is funny) but

some folks do this for some of the kids if not all in their family

> 12. activities like tai kwon do, etc., we are just starting this

for our 9 y/o.

> 13.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Roxanna. I need to print it

up and post it near my computer and add what you said because we can only do so

much.

RL

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Roxanna

Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:01

AM

Subject: Re:

( )autistic child in church

ROFL! Regina, your a

hoot. I like making lists too. lol.

But in all

seriousness, I do not think many times that we give ourselves enough credit,

just like you said. I know I finally got to the point where I was

depressed and exhausted and I started to say - " I'm doing the best that I

can. " We need to give ourselves a break and not look so much at what

we haven't done or can't do but what we have accomplished. We need to let

ourselves off the hook for things we decided before we had kids with problems.

You know, that " perfect life " we had envisioned is so

different. It's not just a mild diversion - it's a whole new world.

And so we won't have perfect attendance at church or be president of the

PTA. Instead, we will teach someone to make a friend. In the end,

does the exchange in our priorities mean we have failed? No! some

things are just as important to the world.

Roxanna

Autism Happens

[Guest guest]

The people I do see that are involved,

that have issues in their family, have a lot of support from their families

(hands on, not just moral) and are not doing things that commit them

weekly. Not the ones that I have seen and met anyway. Even the NT

families, usually have someone else in the church looking after their kiddos

while they serve here or there. I’d have to hire someone because

they just are not easy. I’d rather use respite for other

things. Now, if respite had been available to us during the first 5 years

of this autism/aspergers thing, then we wouldn’t have gotten so burnt out

perhaps. We just got funding the first of this year.

Our church records each service, so that

is an option we have. Some good churches can be found on tv and webcasts

too. Making the time is much harder when we can’t get it in on

Sunday morning. I know God understands. Just a thought, but

it isn’t recorded in the Bible that everyone went to a temple. God

met each and every one where they were. Mountain tops, Caves, fields,

temples, wherever. He knows when we’ve made the effort. He knows

our limitations. I believe that too.

RL

[Guest guest]

You're right. ..."wherever 2 or more are gathered..." HE's everywhere. So is the Bible. You may all actually get more out of sitting around in a "calm" environment talking/reading. genasu <genasu@...> wrote: The people I do see that are involved, that have

issues in their family, have a lot of support from their families (hands on, not just moral) and are not doing things that commit them weekly. Not the ones that I have seen and met anyway. Even the NT families, usually have someone else in the church looking after their kiddos while they serve here or there. I’d have to hire someone because they just are not easy. I’d rather use respite for other things. Now, if respite had been available to us during the first 5 years of this autism/aspergers thing, then we wouldn’t have gotten so burnt out perhaps. We just got funding the first of this year. Our church records each service, so that is an option we have. Some good churches can be found on tv and webcasts too. Making the time is much harder when we can’t get it in on Sunday

morning. I know God understands. Just a thought, but it isn’t recorded in the Bible that everyone went to a temple. God met each and every one where they were. Mountain tops, Caves, fields, temples, wherever. He knows when we’ve made the effort. He knows our limitations. I believe that too. RL

[Guest guest]

Not to go off subject but I just want to say church is for learning and

fellowship. You may

be able to learn through reading and tv evangelism, but the fellowship and

singing of

hymns is a spiritual experience hard to do outside of church. ; ) And for what

it's worth I

do think our kids need groups to accept them and a GOOD church is an excellent

way for

them to gain self esteem.

So, if one enjoys church and is having a hard time with " theirs " and their child

maybe God

is telling you to visit another denomination. ; ) For those who don't go to

church I hope

you have some sort of social club/group/etc you and your kids go to.

Dee ><)))*>

> The people I do see that are involved, that have issues in their

family, have a lot

of support from their families (hands on, not just moral) and are not doing

things that

commit them weekly. Not the ones that I have seen and met anyway. Even the NT

families, usually have someone else in the church looking after their kiddos

while they

serve here or there. I'd have to hire someone because they just are not easy.

I'd rather

use respite for other things. Now, if respite had been available to us during

the first 5

years of this autism/aspergers thing, then we wouldn't have gotten so burnt out

perhaps.

We just got funding the first of this year.

> Our church records each service, so that is an option we have. Some good

churches

can be found on tv and webcasts too. Making the time is much harder when we

can't get

it in on Sunday morning. I know God understands. Just a thought, but it isn't

recorded in

the Bible that everyone went to a temple. God met each and every one where they

were.

Mountain tops, Caves, fields, temples, wherever. He knows when we've made the

effort.

He knows our limitations. I believe that too.

> RL

>

[Guest guest]

Yep,,,,I agree. IF they don't find acceptance where they're at and decide not to look elsewhere ............GOD is still with ya. Everywhere. Don & Dee <pjdxxxwa@...> wrote: Not to go off subject but I just want to say church is for learning and fellowship. You may be able to learn through reading and tv evangelism, but the fellowship and singing of hymns is a spiritual experience hard to do outside of church. ; ) And for what it's worth I do think

our kids need groups to accept them and a GOOD church is an excellent way for them to gain self esteem. So, if one enjoys church and is having a hard time with "theirs" and their child maybe God is telling you to visit another denomination. ; ) For those who don't go to church I hope you have some sort of social club/group/etc you and your kids go to. Dee ><)))*>> The people I do see that are involved, that have issues in their family, have a lot of support from their families (hands on,

not just moral) and are not doing things that commit them weekly. Not the ones that I have seen and met anyway. Even the NT families, usually have someone else in the church looking after their kiddos while they serve here or there. I'd have to hire someone because they just are not easy. I'd rather use respite for other things. Now, if respite had been available to us during the first 5 years of this autism/aspergers thing, then we wouldn't have gotten so burnt out perhaps. We just got funding the first of this year.> Our church records each service, so that is an option we have. Some good churches can be found on tv and webcasts too. Making the time is much harder when we can't get it in on Sunday morning. I know God understands. Just a thought, but it isn't recorded in the Bible that everyone went to a temple. God met each and every one where they were. Mountain tops, Caves, fields, temples, wherever. He knows when we've

made the effort. He knows our limitations. I believe that too. > RL>