RE: Started CLO and seeing die off symptoms

[Guest guest]

> Can introducing CLO in a high quality with naturally occuring vitamin A

Was the previous product an EFA, just without vitamin A?

>>Is it possibly viral? How is viral die off different than yeast die off?

Viral die off typically causes yeast, so increase your yeast protocol

and see if it helps.

See other info in my previous message to .

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply Dana! You asked if our previous supp was an EFA. Yep,

Coromega has 350 mg EPA and 230 mg DHA. No vitamin A.

I found tracey's message about her son and vitamin A; but could not find your

reply. Probably just being unintelligent at the moment! If you remember the post

subject line, could you let me know so I can read your thoughts. I would love to

hear your reply and don't want you to have to retype anything you have already

written.

Regarding the yeast. My son is not acting " yeasty " right now and his BMs are not

indicative of such overgrowths. We do have an ongoing yeast protocol that seems

to be keeping that in check (for now).

I am just seeing die off symptoms and did not know if the CLO with such nice

amounts of vitamin A would kill off anything that would cause these " dying off "

symptoms.

Thanks again for your time!!!

~

danasview <danasview@...> wrote:

> Can introducing CLO in a high quality with naturally occuring vitamin A

Was the previous product an EFA, just without vitamin A?

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dunsmore

>MOST PRESSING QUESTION...We are at conflict figuring this one out

>- Our son was doing better than ever 3 days ago. We then switched

>to nordic naturals arctic cod liver oil to replace coromega (had

>no naturally occuring vitamin A).

>

>One day after the switch, he developed dark circles under the

>eyes. BMs were brown, thin and uncomfortable. Stims increased.

>This seems to us to be die off.

Maybe, but I'd want to find out if Nordic Naturals has truly natural vitamin

A or synthetic. The product is molecularly distilled which removes the

naturally ocurring vitamins A and D so they must be added back in. Some

manufacturers don't add the natural forms back in.

Also, dark circles under the eyes are a classic allergy symptom. My bet is

that there's something in the Nordic Naturals that is bothering him.

Lastly, if you want " nice " amounts of vitamin A, no other CLO beats Blue Ice

(http://www.drrons.com/cod-liver-oil.htm). It's got approx. 5x the amount of

vitamin A than Nordic Naturals, and it's unquestionably the natural form, as

the vits haven't been removed through molecular distillation.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze,

Couldn't you just take 5x more Nordic Natural CLO? Wouldn't the extra fish

oil beneficial too? Or do you think it's better to have " high vitamin " CLO

and consume less of it? Why?

Dan

> Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:08:30 -0500

> From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

> Subject: RE: Started CLO and seeing die off symptoms

>

> Lastly, if you want " nice " amounts of vitamin A, no other CLO

> beats Blue Ice (http://www.drrons.com/cod-liver-oil.htm).

> It's got approx. 5x the amount of vitamin A than Nordic

> Naturals, and it's unquestionably the natural form, as the

> vits haven't been removed through molecular distillation.

>

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dan Corrigan

>

>Suze,

>

>Couldn't you just take 5x more Nordic Natural CLO? Wouldn't the extra fish

>oil beneficial too? Or do you think it's better to have " high vitamin " CLO

>and consume less of it? Why?

Hi Dan,

Absolutely it's better to take the high vitamin CLO to avoid excess

polyunsatured fatty acids (PUFA) because excess PUFA is harmful in many

ways. I'd *never* suggest anyone take 5 TBsp. of cod liver oil or fish oil

unless it was an absolute necessity in treating a specific condition, and

even then, I'd urge the person to take very high doses of antioxidants to

counter the peroxidation effect of the PUFAs. Excess PUFA can lead to

cancer, for instance, among many other diseases/conditions. High PUFA intake

is endemic in the US population, albeit mostly omega 6s in the form of

veggie oils, but the longer chain PUFAs in fish oil are actually more prone

to oxidation due to a greater number of double bonds.

However, IF one is going to take high doses of fish oil, it should be in the

form of CLO in my opinion, because the vitamin A actually protects your body

from the damage of the oxidized PUFA. And the vast majority of Americans

aren't getting enough vits A and D to begin with. But I still wouldn't

recommend such high amounts of fish oil OR CLO.

Of course, omega 6s and 3s need to be properly balanced for good health, so

one should also limit omega 6 intake as well. Total PUFA intake should only

be about 4% of one's daily fat calories - the rest should be saturated

(which protects PUFAs against oxidation, amongst other important roles) and

monounsaturated. And the ratio of 3s/6s should be in the neighborhood of

1/1.

I hope that answered your question :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for your reply Dana! You asked if our previous supp was an

EFA. Yep, Coromega has 350 mg EPA and 230 mg DHA. No vitamin A.

Then it might just be the vitamin A. Check for toxicity symptoms

http://www.danasview.net/vitamina.htm

> I found tracey's message about her son and vitamin A; but could not

find your reply.

/message/84528

> Regarding the yeast. My son is not acting " yeasty " right now and his

BMs are not indicative of such overgrowths.

BMs are not always a good indicator. My son can have yeast without it

showing up at all in the bms.

If vitamin A is causing viral die off, it can cause yeast. You might

want to increase probiotics or whatever else is your yeast protocol,

see if that helps.

If he does not need vitamin A, then giving it can cause problems. My

son does not tolerate ANY vitamin A, because he is now fully loaded.

It took quite a lot of effort to get him here tho.

> I am just seeing die off symptoms and did not know if the CLO with

such nice amounts of vitamin A would kill off anything that would

cause these " dying off " symptoms.

It can, or it can be other things.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Are you saying that Omega 3 fatty acids are polyunsatured fatty acids

(PUFA)? I thought most people are lacking Omega 3's and/or consume too

much Omerga 6's. So, my thinking (maybe it's wrong) was that there

really was no advantage to taking high vitamin CLO, because you do

need the Omega 3's, DHA and EPA oils.

I wasn't suggesting on taking 5 TBL of CLO. I do however take 1 TBL

personally of Nordic Naturals CLO. I take it partly for the vitamins

and partly for the oils.

Maybe I'm just trying to justify it because I perfer the taste of

Nordic Naturals over the high vitamin CLO!

Dan

>

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From:

> >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dan Corrigan

>

> >

> >Suze,

> >

> >Couldn't you just take 5x more Nordic Natural CLO? Wouldn't the

extra fish

> >oil beneficial too? Or do you think it's better to have " high

vitamin " CLO

> >and consume less of it? Why?

>

> Hi Dan,

>

> Absolutely it's better to take the high vitamin CLO to avoid excess

> polyunsatured fatty acids (PUFA) because excess PUFA is harmful in many

> ways. I'd *never* suggest anyone take 5 TBsp. of cod liver oil or

fish oil

> unless it was an absolute necessity in treating a specific

condition, and

> even then, I'd urge the person to take very high doses of

antioxidants to

> counter the peroxidation effect of the PUFAs. Excess PUFA can lead to

> cancer, for instance, among many other diseases/conditions. High

PUFA intake

> is endemic in the US population, albeit mostly omega 6s in the form of

> veggie oils, but the longer chain PUFAs in fish oil are actually

more prone

> to oxidation due to a greater number of double bonds.

>

> However, IF one is going to take high doses of fish oil, it should

be in the

> form of CLO in my opinion, because the vitamin A actually protects

your body

> from the damage of the oxidized PUFA. And the vast majority of Americans

> aren't getting enough vits A and D to begin with. But I still wouldn't

> recommend such high amounts of fish oil OR CLO.

>

> Of course, omega 6s and 3s need to be properly balanced for good

health, so

> one should also limit omega 6 intake as well. Total PUFA intake

should only

> be about 4% of one's daily fat calories - the rest should be saturated

> (which protects PUFAs against oxidation, amongst other important

roles) and

> monounsaturated. And the ratio of 3s/6s should be in the neighborhood of

> 1/1.

>

> I hope that answered your question :-)

>

>

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. "

--

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of mdlies

>Are you saying that Omega 3 fatty acids are polyunsatured fatty acids

>(PUFA)?

Yes. Both omega 3 and omega 6 are PUFA.

I thought most people are lacking Omega 3's and/or consume too

>much Omerga 6's.

Yes, this is true.

So, my thinking (maybe it's wrong) was that there

>really was no advantage to taking high vitamin CLO, because you do

>need the Omega 3's, DHA and EPA oils.

This totally depends on the rest of your diet. You need very little omega 3s

and 6s as I mentioned in my previous post. Each should constitute about 2%

of total calories from fat. These absolute amounts are as important as the

ratio between the two types of PUFA. The average American consumes about 20%

PUFA - *5X* the amount consumed by exceptionally health non-industrialized

populations. This is really, really problematic in so many ways. However,

the ratio of PUFA to saturated fat is also important. Saturated fat is

protective of the damage done by PUFAs, so the ratio should also be high

SF/PUFA.

Ideally, we should be careful to limit the amount of both of the PUFAs -

omega 6s AND 3s. It is very unwise to consume omega 6s with abandon, and

then just try to balance it out by consuming excess amounts of omega 3s so

that the *ratios* are good, but the absolute amounts are off the charts,

which is something I've seen commonly done among people feeding homemade

diets to their dogs, for instance. The principle is the same. We've evolved

a need for certain amounts and ratios of these nutrients and throwing these

way out of balance results in problems.

>I wasn't suggesting on taking 5 TBL of CLO. I do however take 1 TBL

>personally of Nordic Naturals CLO. I take it partly for the vitamins

>and partly for the oils.

I don't know what the rest of your diet is like (hopefully lots of saturated

fat from healthy sources!) but that doesn't sound like too much. I was on 2

Tbsp. of the high vitamin CLO for about a year due to my low thyroid

function (which inhibits the conversion of carotenes to vitamin A). However,

I do have age spots on my face this year which I did not have before and I

suspect that the amount of PUFA from those 2 tbsp. daily contributed to

this. Age spots are just one of the bad effects of a diet too high in PUFAs.

For me it was a wake up call to reduce PUFA because I'd rather not develop

the degenerative diseases that excess PUFA can cause. Age spots is bad

enough!

>

>Maybe I'm just trying to justify it because I perfer the taste of

>Nordic Naturals over the high vitamin CLO!

Have you tried the flavored Blue Ice CLO? I really like the taste of all of

them - cinamon, mint, orange. I could easily chug it, but of course don't

:-) Lots of parents report that their kids hate the taste of CLO but like

the Blue Ice flavors.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Suze Fisher

>This totally depends on the rest of your diet. You need very

>little omega 3s

>and 6s as I mentioned in my previous post. Each should constitute about 2%

>of total calories from fat. These absolute amounts are as important as the

>ratio between the two types of PUFA. The average American consumes

>about 20%

>PUFA - *5X* the amount consumed by exceptionally health non-industrialized

>populations. This is really, really problematic in so many ways. However,

>the ratio of PUFA to saturated fat is also important. Saturated fat is

>protective of the damage done by PUFAs, so the ratio should also be high

>SF/PUFA.

>

in re-reading this it seems confusing. The " absolute " amounts aren't really

absolute at all, rather they are *relative* to saturated and monounsatured

fat consumption! So the last two sentences aren't an addendum but rather an

elaboration. My mistake. Sorry to be so confusing this morning :-(

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>