Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Since you were off supplements for a week before testing, it may be that the test shows her baseline and not the actual levels. She may not be as deficient as it seems if she were tested on the supplements. Haleh --- jennaleeck <superkempusa@...> wrote: > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such a > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she takes > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? She is > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If anyone > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! Thanks! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 My daughter's B markers all recently came back low and Dr. Cave is recommending a B complex. It hasn't arrived yet so I cant tell you about it but would be happy to share the product details when it gets here. The interesting piece is that, apart from B12, her Bs were NOT low the first time we tested (a year ago - and she is 3yrs 9 months right now). In the interim she has been fully supplemented (for vits we use Brainchild SSII- not exactly high B like SNT - but she didn't show low Bs initially) and also on B12 injections. Her Bs (particularly B3) are lower now than before though almost every other single marker is improved. I have asked our Doctor to comment on this; and I have been doing a little reading on my own. It looks like fatty acid metabolism and amino acids can also play a role in utilization of Bs. I found the following to be of great interest as my daughter's urinary ethlymalonate was also high (though not the other markers for carnitine insufficiency and she has been taking carnitine) http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Organix%20Pract%20Interpretation.pdf. About, adipate, suberate & ethylmalonate (which are markers for carnitine - my daughter has been taking carnitine and her adipate and suberate levels are now fine but ewthylmalonate is still high): " Carnitine is needed when any of the above markers are elevated. Carnitine is required as a carrier for the transport of fatty acids from the cytosol into the mitochondria for beta-oxidation. This is the dominant pathway used to derive energy from fat, and riboflavin is the necessary cofactor for these enzyme reactions. When carnitine levels are inadequate, the degradation of fatty acids takes place through mega-oxidation, an alternate pathway, which will result in the elevation of any of the above three markers. Adequate vitamin B2 levels are especially important for elevated ethylmalonate, which can result directly from a deficiency of this nutrient FWIW we did not stop supplementing for our tests so we show a deficiency in spite of supplementation. She is 3yrs 9 months, has no diagnosis and functions normally (apart from the boatload of enzymes and supplements that keep her there) Josie B vitamin deficiency Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such a mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she takes it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? She is currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If anyone has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Does she suffer from low muscle tone, weakness or anything like that? My daughter does. Carnitine was suggested for her. I think all of her issues are really effecting her that way. She presents with almost a chronic fatigue/autoimmune presentation. I definitely want to know what Bcomplex. I came across a sublinqual one that looked interesting. What is the one you are getting? > > My daughter's B markers all recently came back low and Dr. Cave is > recommending a B complex. It hasn't arrived yet so I cant tell you about it > but would be happy to share the product details when it gets here. > > > > The interesting piece is that, apart from B12, her Bs were NOT low the first > time we tested (a year ago - and she is 3yrs 9 months right now). In the > interim she has been fully supplemented (for vits we use Brainchild SSII- > not exactly high B like SNT - but she didn't show low Bs initially) and also > on B12 injections. Her Bs (particularly B3) are lower now than before > though almost every other single marker is improved. > > > > I have asked our Doctor to comment on this; and I have been doing a little > reading on my own. It looks like fatty acid metabolism and amino acids can > also play a role in utilization of Bs. > > > > I found the following to be of great interest as my daughter's urinary > ethlymalonate was also high (though not the other markers for carnitine > insufficiency and she has been taking carnitine) > > > > http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Organix%20Pract% 20Interpretation.pdf. > About, adipate, suberate & ethylmalonate (which are markers for carnitine - > my daughter has been taking carnitine and her adipate and suberate levels > are now fine but ewthylmalonate is still high): " Carnitine is needed when > any of the above markers are elevated. Carnitine is required as a carrier > for the transport of fatty acids from the cytosol into the mitochondria for > beta-oxidation. This is the dominant pathway used to derive energy from fat, > and riboflavin is the necessary cofactor for these enzyme reactions. When > carnitine levels are inadequate, the degradation of fatty acids takes place > through mega-oxidation, an alternate pathway, which will result in the > elevation of any of the above three markers. Adequate vitamin B2 levels are > especially important for elevated ethylmalonate, which can result directly > from a deficiency of this nutrient > > > > FWIW we did not stop supplementing for our tests so we show a deficiency in > spite of supplementation. > > > > She is 3yrs 9 months, has no diagnosis and functions normally (apart from > the boatload of enzymes and supplements that keep her there) > > > > Josie > > > > B vitamin deficiency > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such a > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she takes > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? She is > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If anyone > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! Thanks! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 > > Does she suffer from low muscle tone, weakness or anything like > that? My daughter does. Carnitine was suggested for her. My one son has poor muscle tone which has resulted in flat feet and neck weakness. Is carnitine a safe to give without a doctors recommendation? I would like to try it if so. Robyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > acid)? My kids were severely deficient in B vitamins. >>I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B > vitamin deficiency. It might have been because she was off the supplement for a week. Depending on what sort of test this was, it might have shown deficient because the body was absorbing the vitamins, instead of wasting them. >>I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? mB12 is commonly given as a sublingual. >>Is her gut just such a > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? That is possible. >> If she takes > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? Most of the time. She is > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? Giving only one B vitamin tends to deplete the others. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 > > Does she suffer from low muscle tone, weakness or anything like > that? My daughter does. Carnitine was suggested for her. I think > all of her issues are really effecting her that way. For low muscle tone, consider amino acids including carnitine, mB12 and other Bs, and perhaps EFAs. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 The one thing was that her pantethinic acid was high - I thought this may further indicate poor absorption or transport since pantethonic acid needs what is it B6? Maybe the B6 isn't working right leaving all the pacid behind?? What do you think?? -- In , " danasview " <danasview@...> wrote: > > > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > > acid)? > > > My kids were severely deficient in B vitamins. > > > >>I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested > > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B > > vitamin deficiency. > > > It might have been because she was off the supplement for a week. > > Depending on what sort of test this was, it might have shown deficient > because the body was absorbing the vitamins, instead of wasting them. > > > >>I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? > > > mB12 is commonly given as a sublingual. > > > >>Is her gut just such a > > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? > > > That is possible. > > > >> If she takes > > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? > > > Most of the time. > > > She is > > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? > > > Giving only one B vitamin tends to deplete the others. > > Dana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Thanks - not doing carnitine yet. Doing EFA's. I think the B's are a big part of it all though - I am hoping to figure out how to increase B use. She really almost looks anemic (pale pale skin), I know B12 deficiency can be related to pernicious anemia. I am thinking sublingual - any good brands?? Any concerns about carnitine. I read something about seizures and need for increased calories. She has a very poor appetite (probably related to being so deficient in Bs). - -- In , " danasview " <danasview@...> wrote: > > > > > > Does she suffer from low muscle tone, weakness or anything like > > that? My daughter does. Carnitine was suggested for her. I think > > all of her issues are really effecting her that way. > > > For low muscle tone, consider amino acids including carnitine, mB12 > and other Bs, and perhaps EFAs. > > Dana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 She did suffer from low muscle tone (and ditn walk until she was 17.5 months old) and we occasionally still see signs of gross motor delay. The carnitine was prescribed for us based on test results though. B vitamin deficiency > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was tested > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows B > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such a > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she takes > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? She is > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If anyone > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! Thanks! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 - Wow! That sounds just like my daughter. She didn't walk until exactly 18 months old, partly low tone, partly severe gravitational insecurity (obviously interconnected). We did an OAT and she shows problems with her Kreb's Cycle and lots of other stuff that seem to point with mitochondrial issues - which I think is causing her the muscular issues. They recommended carnitine based on her lab. Are you using carnitine. I read something about seizure risk and need for increased caloric intake, is that accurate? I am interested in, but that made me a little nervous. BUt I honestly don't know anything else about it. Have you had good effect? She desperately needs help with this, this muscle fatigue, lack of energy has a huge impact on her. If we could tackle this it would help her sooooo much!! My daughter still has gross motor delays. It is wierd but it is her slowest skill. Her language and cognition keep chugging, but her gross motor just creeps along (sometimes it feels more like limps...). She still looks like a little toddler when she walks. -- In , " Josie Lecraw " <josie.nelson@...> wrote: > > She did suffer from low muscle tone (and ditn walk until she was 17.5 months > old) and we occasionally still see signs of gross motor delay. The > carnitine was prescribed for us based on test results though. > > > > B vitamin deficiency > > > > > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was > tested > > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows > B > > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such > a > > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she > takes > > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? > She is > > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If > anyone > > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 She really almost looks anemic (pale pale skin), Hi Just to let you know that one of the signs of heavy metal toxicity is pallor. Its been interesting to watch the olive complexions returning to my sons as the months of chelation go on.. Also, my littlest one has the strawberry color returning to his hair which disappeared for a while. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 > > The one thing was that her pantethinic acid was high - I thought > this may further indicate poor absorption or transport since > pantethonic acid needs what is it B6? Maybe the B6 isn't working > right leaving all the pacid behind?? What do you think?? All the Bs generally need the other Bs for proper absorption and use. So you might want to give a B50, plus extra B5 if she needs extra. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 > > Thanks - not doing carnitine yet. Doing EFA's. I think the B's are > a big part of it all though - I am hoping to figure out how to > increase B use. She really almost looks anemic (pale pale skin), I > know B12 deficiency can be related to pernicious anemia. I am > thinking sublingual - any good brands?? I use sublingual mB12 from Natural Factors here. >>She has a very poor appetite (probably related to being > so deficient in Bs). Adding zinc can help with poor appetite for certain kids. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Do you use a Bcomplex by Natural Factors? I couldn't find a B complex. Or do you buy all seperate?? Let me know!! Trying to figure out spray or sublingual... > > > > Thanks - not doing carnitine yet. Doing EFA's. I think the B's are > > a big part of it all though - I am hoping to figure out how to > > increase B use. She really almost looks anemic (pale pale skin), I > > know B12 deficiency can be related to pernicious anemia. I am > > thinking sublingual - any good brands?? > > > I use sublingual mB12 from Natural Factors here. > > > >>She has a very poor appetite (probably related to being > > so deficient in Bs). > > > Adding zinc can help with poor appetite for certain kids. > > Dana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 > > Do you use a Bcomplex by Natural Factors? I use Henry's brand B50. I use Natural Factors for many supplements, but not B50. >>Or do you buy all seperate?? I have done that also. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 You asked me to let you know what B – Complex we’re using. It arrived a couple of days ago and is Ecological Formulas brand “Co-Enzyme B Complex”. It has an insane amount of Bs. For example one capsule per day (adult rec is 2 per day; we’ve been told to use 1 cap) for thiamine is 2000% of RDA and 1500% of RDA for B6. I expected to see hyper but have been pleasantly surprised. We’ve worked up to ½ cap per day so far. Her labs showed big B deficiencies (she has been taking Brainchild Spectrum Support II for more than a year). Her doc said one reason why Bs might be lower now than last year (apart from the B12 injections) is that her body has begin to actually utilize them. Yes we’ve been using carnitine and yes we’ve been using custom amino acid blend (and now general amino acid supplement) and fatty acid supplementation based on labs as well. All 3 have made a big difference. She takes toddler ballet and toddler yoga classes and I can see the difference in her body “connectedness” over time. Josie B vitamin deficiency > > > > > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, folic > > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was > tested > > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and shows > B > > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just such > a > > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she > takes > > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? > She is > > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more depleted > > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If > anyone > > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Thanks. Is it sublingual or do you mix it in drinks? Toddler ballet and yoga! Wow. My daughter loves the curious buddies DVD " Let's Move " and does the yoga along with it! SOOO cute! > > > > > > My daughter's B markers all recently came back low and Dr. Cave > is > > > recommending a B complex. It hasn't arrived yet so I cant tell > > you about it > > > but would be happy to share the product details when it gets > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > The interesting piece is that, apart from B12, her Bs were NOT > low > > the first > > > time we tested (a year ago - and she is 3yrs 9 months right > now). > > In the > > > interim she has been fully supplemented (for vits we use > > Brainchild SSII- > > > not exactly high B like SNT - but she didn't show low Bs > > initially) and also > > > on B12 injections. Her Bs (particularly B3) are lower now than > > before > > > though almost every other single marker is improved. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have asked our Doctor to comment on this; and I have been > doing > > a little > > > reading on my own. It looks like fatty acid metabolism and > amino > > acids can > > > also play a role in utilization of Bs. > > > > > > > > > > > > I found the following to be of great interest as my daughter's > > urinary > > > ethlymalonate was also high (though not the other markers for > > carnitine > > > insufficiency and she has been taking carnitine) > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Organix%20Pract% > <http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Organix%20Pract%25> > > <http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Organix%20Pract%25> > > 20Interpretation.pdf. > > > About, adipate, suberate & ethylmalonate (which are markers for > > carnitine - > > > my daughter has been taking carnitine and her adipate and > suberate > > levels > > > are now fine but ewthylmalonate is still high): " Carnitine is > > needed when > > > any of the above markers are elevated. Carnitine is required as > a > > carrier > > > for the transport of fatty acids from the cytosol into the > > mitochondria for > > > beta-oxidation. This is the dominant pathway used to derive > energy > > from fat, > > > and riboflavin is the necessary cofactor for these enzyme > > reactions. When > > > carnitine levels are inadequate, the degradation of fatty acids > > takes place > > > through mega-oxidation, an alternate pathway, which will result > in > > the > > > elevation of any of the above three markers. Adequate vitamin B2 > > levels are > > > especially important for elevated ethylmalonate, which can > result > > directly > > > from a deficiency of this nutrient > > > > > > > > > > > > FWIW we did not stop supplementing for our tests so we show a > > deficiency in > > > spite of supplementation. > > > > > > > > > > > > She is 3yrs 9 months, has no diagnosis and functions normally > > (apart from > > > the boatload of enzymes and supplements that keep her there) > > > > > > > > > > > > Josie > > > > > > > > > > > > B vitamin deficiency > > > > > > > > > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, > folic > > > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was > > tested > > > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and > shows > > B > > > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > > > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just > such > > a > > > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she > > takes > > > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? > > She is > > > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more > depleted > > > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If > > anyone > > > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 I mix it in the yucky vitamin sludge she takes but it could mix easily in drinks. She says it doesn’t taste bad. J B vitamin deficiency > > > > > > > > > > > > Did anyone have a child with B vitamin deficiency (B 12, B6, > folic > > > acid)? I have been using supernuthera since November, she was > > tested > > > (labs, OAT) in January (off supplement for maybe a week) and > shows > > B > > > vitamin deficiency. I am thinking about ordering a sublingual > > > supplement?? Is this on the right track??? Is her gut just > such > > a > > > mess that it can't use the vitamin or get it from food?? If she > > takes > > > it sublingually will it enter the blood and be ready for use?? > > She is > > > currently on B12 injections and I worry she will get more > depleted > > > since the methylB12 needs the other B vitamins to function?? If > > anyone > > > has a certain supplement they recommend please let me know!! > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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