Re: Need Help with Getting Started

[Guest guest]

> I've searched high and low for ANY milk substitute that might be

sufficient

> nutritionally for him as a replacement for his infant formula.

You can try the chewable enzymes, maybe he will like those.

Water is the best liquid for him. He should be obtaining his

nutrition from food now, not formula.

>> I have

> managed to transition him to half rice drink, half infant formula.

Put 1/4 to 1/2 capsule Peptizyde in this. Also Peptizyde in any

yoghurt or other milk products.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I don't know that this would work for you but I had a terrible time

getting my boys off of milk and finally they took to carrot juice.

They were younger when we started (I think about 19 months and they

are your son's age now). I tried everything else before that. I

agree that kid's primary nutrition should come from food. In our

case, though, we simply don't eat enough foods or enough variety to

get the calories we need so I spruce up their drinks. Carrot juice

is a strong enough flavor to mask other things pretty well. If you

could find something like that to mix in his drink 1/2 and 1/2 you

might be able to then put in the enzymes?? If you think about it

most kiddos are drinking milk which has both calories and protein.

Lots of toddlers are picky eaters and their parents use those

supplemental drinks and those with autism that much more so. I guess

I am saying that getting some nutrition through drinks with a picky

toddler is ok I think and that is something to keep in mind as you

try to transition--rice milk isn't helpful as far as nutrition goes.

I think that simply taking away his drink and offering only water

would be a very scary thing if he only eats bits of food. On the

other hand, perhaps since he is a healthy size you could cut down

significantly on the drink and see if his eating picks up. Maybe

then you would be more comfortable cutting it out completely? I

think you mentioned this but you have tried sneaking the enzyme into

the drink itself, right? Just some rambling thoughts!

[Guest guest]

Hi Dana,

> I've searched high and low for ANY milk substitute that might be

sufficient

> nutritionally for him as a replacement for his infant formula.

You can try the chewable enzymes, maybe he will like those.

Water is the best liquid for him. He should be obtaining his

nutrition from food now, not formula.

Yes, I agree. He's 25 months old, he has autism. He will not eat

sufficient quantities of food to sustain his health. He will not drink water.

He would

rather die than drink water. He has to go into the hospital because he won't

drink water. He has had this aversion since he was born. We have come an

extremely long way under the supervision of a top team of feeding experts here

in London. It took months just to transition him to take milk that was tepid

rather than body temperature. It took further months to get him to tolerate

anything with lumps in in, even miniscule lumps. Then it took more months

to transition him to bite and dissolve foods. While it may sound awful and it

may sound like a great idea to try to starve him into eating, he just

doesn't care. In fact I have to offer him the milk, he didn't even hold his

bottle

until he was 20 months old.

He will eat voluntarily when we are out if he sees other people eating, etc

and he is making great strides towards a more healthy diet and improving his

oral motor skills. Food aversion is his number one sensory issue and it has

been the exasperation of my life. I have spent days just keeping him topped

up on the milk, let alone trying to actually get him to eat. I understand

that there are a lot of things that my son *should* be doing but he isn't. We

are hoping to start him on an ABA program soon and obviously the food is one

of the first behaviours that we will target. Meanwhile, I guess I'm going to

have to work with what little he will take. I will try the chewable

enzymes, that is a good idea.

>> I have

> managed to transition him to half rice drink, half infant formula.

Put 1/4 to 1/2 capsule Peptizyde in this. Also Peptizyde in any

yoghurt or other milk products.

Dana

Thanks, this is the first thing that I tried. He won't take milk/yoghurt,

etc with the AFP Peptizyde. As I'm sure you know, it immediately starts to

degrade the milk and he hates this. He won't take the yoghurt which turns

liquid pretty quickly with the enzymes. I'll give the chewables a try.

Thanks for the help,

Darla

London

DH Boban

DS 2 years and 1 month

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much! I will try offering him some carrot juice. He may take

it or I may be able to syringe it into his mouth with the enzymes. I hadn't

actually thought of vegetable juices. He likes strong flavours so it may be

that he will take it in the veg juice. I think the fruit juices were too

acidic with the enzyme and may have caused a slight irritant to the inside of

his

mouth that's why he didn't like it.

If I can get him to drink some carrot juice then I may be able to get him to

take it from his bottle with the enzymes in it. Fingers crossed for me.

Yes, I can't really let him go without the formula, he just starts loosing

weight. He doesn't seem to understand hunger or thirst and I'm hoping this

will develop with time. Do your boys eat well now?

He's already eating more solids with the introduction of bio-kult so I know

the enzymes may help him to eat more solids too, it's just a matter of getting

going in any steady way.

Thanks very much.

Regards,

Darla

In a message dated 03/07/2006 00:16:12 GMT Standard Time, wab121695@...

writes:

I don't know that this would work for you but I had a terrible time

getting my boys off of milk and finally they took to carrot juice.

They were younger when we started (I think about 19 months and they

are your son's age now). I tried everything else before that. I

agree that kid's primary nutrition should come from food. In our

case, though, we simply don't eat enough foods or enough variety to

get the calories we need so I spruce up their drinks. Carrot juice

is a strong enough flavor to mask other things pretty well. If you

could find something like that to mix in his drink 1/2 and 1/2 you

might be able to then put in the enzymes?? If you think about it

most kiddos are drinking milk which has both calories and protein.

Lots of toddlers are picky eaters and their parents use those

supplemental drinks and those with autism that much more so. I guess

I am saying that getting some nutrition through drinks with a picky

toddler is ok I think and that is something to keep in mind as you

try to transition--try to transition--<WBR>rice milk isn't helpfu

I think that simply taking away his drink and offering only water

would be a very scary thing if he only eats bits of food. On the

other hand, perhaps since he is a healthy size you could cut down

significantly on the drink and see if his eating picks up. Maybe

then you would be more comfortable cutting it out completely? I

think you mentioned this but you have tried sneaking the enzyme into

the drink itself, right? Just some rambling thoughts!

[Guest guest]

> I've searched high and low for ANY milk substitute that might be

sufficient

> nutritionally for him as a replacement for his infant formula.

Have you tried Vance's DariFree? My kids really like it.

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I agree. He's 25 months old, he has autism. He will not eat

> sufficient quantities of food to sustain his health.

This might be that he realizes that the foods cause problems for him.

My #3 was like that. Also, zinc deficiency can cause this problem

for some kids.

>>He will not drink water. He would

> rather die than drink water.

Wow, very interesting. I know my son would not drink water unless I

put ice in it. Do you think something like that, or maybe drinking it

from a sports bottle, or something like that, might help?

> may sound like a great idea to try to starve him into eating, he just

> doesn't care.

I don't usually recommend starving a child into eating, because I am

personally aware of one child who did starve himself, and ended up in

the hospital with a feeding tube. I asked his mother to write up her

feeding program for my site

http://www.danasview.net/hsrecovr.htm

> He will eat voluntarily when we are out if he sees other people

eating, etc

> and he is making great strides towards a more healthy diet and

improving his

> oral motor skills.

This is good news!

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dana!

>>> Yes, I agree. He's 25 months old, he has autism. He will not eat

> sufficient quantities of food to sustain his health.>>>

>>This might be that he realizes that the foods cause problems for him.

My #3 was like that. Also, zinc deficiency can cause this problem

for some kids.>>

That's good to hear! I started him on Zinc drops yesterday. I'm so glad he

didn't taste them in his milk. whew.

>>He will not drink water. He would

> rather die than drink water.>>

Wow, very interesting. I know my son would not drink water unless I

put ice in it. Do you think something like that, or maybe drinking it

from a sports bottle, or something like that, might help?

Yes, I may try putting ice in it. He does an odd thing where he can't

actually tip the bottle back to drink from it. If you put a sports bottle to his

mouth then he tilts his head waaaay back. When he drinks a bottle of milk he

will either lay down on the floor/ground or lean the upper half of his body

back on a sofa or need his stroller reclined!!

>>> may sound like a great idea to try to starve him into eating, he just

> doesn't care.>>>

>>I don't usually recommend starving a child into eating, because I am

personally aware of one child who did starve himself, and ended up in

the hospital with a feeding tube. I asked his mother to write up her

feeding program for my site>>

_http://www.danasviehttp://www.danahtt_

(http://www.danasview.net/hsrecovr.htm)

Thanks, Dana. That was great to read. It really gives me hope. I've never

seen a kid with such bad feeding aversions as mine. He had it from birth

and it's been a struggle since day one. 4 weeks to ABA and hopefully to better

eating!!

Thanks for the encouragement and the link.

Darla

[Guest guest]

Ray,Well, it sounds as if you have already largely re-invented the wheel--at least most of one.  It's impressive how much work you have done and how much you have learned, and certainly this is an appropriate forum for asking your questions.  I hesitate even to estimate how many hours you have spent getting to where you are so far for not ever having actually trained yourself, but you do hopefully have a solid knowledge of the basics of quickly and accurately finding sites on the head and placing the electrodes to get a clean signal.

My suggestion would be to purchase BioExplorer software (which works with Open EEG) and the TLC Quickstart package for $470 ( http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=5 ).  That will give you a truly professional quality EEG/HEG training software and a full set of training protocols you will be able to use easily (and with some assurance that the filters are properly designed, the feedback latency is low and the feedback is excellent).  You can try out BioExplorer by downloading the trial version at cyberevolution.com.  If you decide to do so, contact me and I'll send you a sample of the new Design package, so you can play with it on your machine.  With a 2-channel amp and BioExplorer, you can do the TLC Assessment and send me the files for processing.  Then we can set up a time to get online and review what it shows about your (or whoever's) brain and produce a training plan that you will understand.  The designs in the QuickStart package will allow you--with the plan--to implement it right away and start testing them to see what kinds of results you can actually produce in your own life.  The online meeting and processing of the assessment will cost you $180, but I'll show you how to remove artifact from the assessment files at that time, so you'll be able to do any additional assessments of other interested people for $100 apiece.

Welcome to the group!Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 3:40 AM, rayroshi <rayroshi@...> wrote:

 

Hello, all.I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of you on this forum, I would imagine:A little background is probably in order, however: I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered the NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my surprise, it all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye blinks, any muscle movement, such as tooth grinding, etc.

Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the OpenEEG site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this in a minute, though.  Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used for importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I have become thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am  able to navigate around in it and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to learn Excel, first, though.

While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of the whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found on the market.  Fascinating stuff. And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself up to the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results on a consistent basis.

The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way to remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for myself, I don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking on-line, it appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand dollars, and, to put things in perspective, I have been able to obtain everything that I have, so far, for about $300.

So that's where I'm at.  I would like to start by doing an assessment, and have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as  outlined by Demos, on pp.148-152 of his book, Getting Started With Neurofeedback.  (If anybody knows of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)

Now to the questions.  First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the forum intended for professional clinicians?  I have many question, some of which are very general, while others might range into the more technical areas, but I don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are obvious to everyone else.  

Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need to be " raw " data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive training regime.  In other words, it would imply that the software design (BrainBay, in my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave information directly to the recording targets, such as a virtual oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform graph, or to a file writer module (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all without the altering/interference of any " processing " elements, such as filters or amplifiers, which might alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as amlitude, wavform, or frequency.  Is that correct?  I am asking this question, because I am trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design  might look like.  Which leads me to the next question.

Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download, somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest.  It would be nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various components (filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing an assessment or, later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For one thing, and as the saying goes, " Why reinvent the wheel?, and for another thing, I'm afraid that my own attempts to design might omit things that should be included, and/or include things that should be omitted. 

Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to share.--Ray Cole  

1 of 1 File(s)

TLC7 sample.xlsm

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete. Thanks for that quick reply to my plea for help. However, as stated,

I'm retired and am on a limited income, so spending almost $700 for all of that

is beyond my means, as good as it sounds.

--Ray Cole

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hello, all.

> >

> > I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of

> > you on this forum, I would imagine:

> >

> > A little background is probably in order, however:

> >

> > I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered

> > the NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my

> > surprise, it all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye

> > blinks, any muscle movement, such as tooth grinding, etc.

> >

> > Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the

> > OpenEEG site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this

> > in a minute, though.

> >

> > Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used

> > for importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I

> > have become thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am able to

> > navigate around in it and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to

> > learn Excel, first, though.

> >

> > While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of

> > the whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found

> > on the market. Fascinating stuff.

> >

> > And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself

> > up to the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results

> > on a consistent basis.

> >

> > The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way

> > to remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for

> > myself, I don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking

> > on-line, it appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand

> > dollars, and, to put things in perspective, I have been able to obtain

> > everything that I have, so far, for about $300.

> >

> > So that's where I'm at. I would like to start by doing an assessment, and

> > have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as outlined by

> > Demos, on pp.148-152 of his book, *Getting Started With Neurofeedback*.

> > (If anybody knows of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)

> >

> > Now to the questions.

> >

> > First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the

> > forum intended for professional clinicians? I have many question, some of

> > which are very general, while others might range into the more technical

> > areas, but I don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are

> > obvious to everyone else.

> >

> > Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need

> > to be " raw " data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive

> > training regime. In other words, it would imply that the software design

> > (BrainBay, in my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave

> > information *directly* to the recording targets, such as a virtual

> > oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform graph, or to a file writer module

> > (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all without the altering/interference

> > of any " processing " elements, such as filters or amplifiers, which might

> > alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as amlitude, wavform, or

> > frequency. Is that correct? I am asking this question, because I am

> > trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design might look

> > like. Which leads me to the next question.

> >

> > Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download,

> > somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a

> > sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest. It would

> > be nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various

> > components (filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing

> > an assessment or, later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For

> > one thing, and as the saying goes, " Why reinvent the wheel?, and for

> > another thing, I'm afraid that my own attempts to design might omit things

> > that should be included, and/or include things that should be omitted.

> >

> > Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to

> > share.

> >

> > --Ray Cole

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ray,I understand, and I wish you the best of luck.  The part you have learned up till now is the easy part.  Figuring out what you need/want to train in your own brain is a lot more difficult (unless you already know a lot about the brain and EEG patterns).  Figuring out how to produce training protocols that actually work, even for the  simplest and most basic training approaches (unless you are an engineer with a solid grounding in signal processing) is equally critical and equally difficult in another direction.

If you decide to proceed with trying to change the most complex organ in your body in positive directions, be very careful.  If you find yourself feeling bad--or not feeling good--when you are doing a specific training, stop at once.  If you notice negative changes in yourself in the 24 hours after a session, probably better not to repeat it.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:38 PM, rayroshi <rayroshi@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pete. Thanks for that quick reply to my plea for help. However, as stated, I'm retired and am on a limited income, so spending almost $700 for all of that is beyond my means, as good as it sounds.

--Ray Cole

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hello, all.

> >

> > I have a few general questions that are probably pretty easy for most of

> > you on this forum, I would imagine:

> >

> > A little background is probably in order, however:

> >

> > I built the two-channel OpenEEG device, fabricated some leads, ordered

> > the NeuroPrep, as well as some paste, then tried it all out. Much to my

> > surprise, it all works just great, showing nice, clear brain waves, eye

> > blinks, any muscle movement, such as tooth grinding, etc.

> >

> > Then I downloaded BrainBay, a free software program, also found on the

> > OpenEEG site, and have become somewhat conversant with it; more about this

> > in a minute, though.

> >

> > Next, I obtained a spreadsheet from an on-line acquaintance, to be used

> > for importing and analyzing the assessment results produced by my EEG. I

> > have become thoroughly--painfully--conversant with it, and am able to

> > navigate around in it and even program it to fit whatever I wish; had to

> > learn Excel, first, though.

> >

> > While doing all of this, I have obtained a very rudimentary knowledge of

> > the whole neurofeedback scene, by reading a few of the books that I found

> > on the market. Fascinating stuff.

> >

> > And, of course, during all of this time, I have practiced hooking myself

> > up to the machine, and can now do so easily, obtaining nice, clean results

> > on a consistent basis.

> >

> > The one thing which I lack that would seem to be very important is a way

> > to remove any artifacts, but since I am retired and only doing this for

> > myself, I don't have the finances to buy such expensive software. Looking

> > on-line, it appears as though artifacting software runs over a thousand

> > dollars, and, to put things in perspective, I have been able to obtain

> > everything that I have, so far, for about $300.

> >

> > So that's where I'm at. I would like to start by doing an assessment, and

> > have chosen the general, two-channel assessment, as outlined by

> > Demos, on pp.148-152 of his book, *Getting Started With Neurofeedback*.

> > (If anybody knows of a better one, I'd appreciate hearing about it)

> >

> > Now to the questions.

> >

> > First, is it appropriate to post questions on this forum, or is the

> > forum intended for professional clinicians? I have many question, some of

> > which are very general, while others might range into the more technical

> > areas, but I don't want to be an annoyance by posting questions that are

> > obvious to everyone else.

> >

> > Second, it would seem that the data obtained from an assessment would need

> > to be " raw " data, in order to analyze it, prior to devising a prescriptive

> > training regime. In other words, it would imply that the software design

> > (BrainBay, in my case) would simply pass the incoming brain wave

> > information *directly* to the recording targets, such as a virtual

> > oscilloscope, a fast-Fourier transform graph, or to a file writer module

> > (for exporting to the spreadsheet)...all without the altering/interference

> > of any " processing " elements, such as filters or amplifiers, which might

> > alter the various brain wave characteristics, such as amlitude, wavform, or

> > frequency. Is that correct? I am asking this question, because I am

> > trying to visualize what a good BrainBay (or any other) design might look

> > like. Which leads me to the next question.

> >

> > Third, are there other people's assessment designs available for download,

> > somewhere? It would seem like a forum would be the perfect place for such a

> > sharing process to take place, among people with a like interest. It would

> > be nice to be able to see just how others have arranged the various

> > components (filters, reward/inhibit threshold elements, etc.), when doing

> > an assessment or, later, when designing a neurofeedback treatment plan. For

> > one thing, and as the saying goes, " Why reinvent the wheel?, and for

> > another thing, I'm afraid that my own attempts to design might omit things

> > that should be included, and/or include things that should be omitted.

> >

> > Thank you, in advance, for any help which any of you might be willing to

> > share.

> >

> > --Ray Cole

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>