Re: When to give which supplements?

[Guest guest]

> Morning:

> 1 NuThera Hypo w/P5P capsule

> 1 Kirkman Pro Bio Gold capsule

> 1/2 t Nordic Naturals CLO

> 1/4 t Kirkman Hypo Calcium Powder

Try reducing the dose of the NuThera, it commonly causes hyper.

> Evening:

> 1 NuThera Hypo w/P5P capsule

> 1/2 t Nordic Naturals CLO

> 1/4 t Kirkman Hypo Calcium Powder

Don't give NuThera after about 4pm, or even earlier depending on the

child. It can interfere with sleep.

My kids were calcium toxic, so giving any calcium at all would cause

hyper.

> 2. At what time of day is it best to give Zinc?

It *can* cause hyper if he dumps copper too fast, so best to start it

in the morning, just in case. However, once the copper issue is

addressed, best to move it to the evening. Don't give it within 2

hours of giving calcium.

> Selenium

> Magnesium

> Zinc

> Vitamin E

> Vitamin C

> GLA (Evening Primrose Oil)

If he is deficient in EFAs, the EPO will tend to cause constipation.

So if you notice that, increase the magnesium. Deficiency in selenium

will tend to cause the same problem.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Dana - thanks for the info! He's never had any testing done, so I

have no idea if he is high in any minerals, etc. Should I hold off

on introducing any of the items listed until I am able to get a

mineral test done?

Jodey

> > Morning:

> > 1 NuThera Hypo w/P5P capsule

> > 1 Kirkman Pro Bio Gold capsule

> > 1/2 t Nordic Naturals CLO

> > 1/4 t Kirkman Hypo Calcium Powder

>

>

> Try reducing the dose of the NuThera, it commonly causes hyper.

>

>

> > Evening:

> > 1 NuThera Hypo w/P5P capsule

> > 1/2 t Nordic Naturals CLO

> > 1/4 t Kirkman Hypo Calcium Powder

>

>

> Don't give NuThera after about 4pm, or even earlier depending on the

> child. It can interfere with sleep.

>

> My kids were calcium toxic, so giving any calcium at all would cause

> hyper.

>

>

> > 2. At what time of day is it best to give Zinc?

>

>

> It *can* cause hyper if he dumps copper too fast, so best to start

it

> in the morning, just in case. However, once the copper issue is

> addressed, best to move it to the evening. Don't give it within 2

> hours of giving calcium.

>

>

> > Selenium

> > Magnesium

> > Zinc

> > Vitamin E

> > Vitamin C

> > GLA (Evening Primrose Oil)

>

>

> If he is deficient in EFAs, the EPO will tend to cause

constipation.

> So if you notice that, increase the magnesium. Deficiency in

selenium

> will tend to cause the same problem.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

> Dana - thanks for the info! He's never had any testing done, so I

> have no idea if he is high in any minerals, etc. Should I hold off

> on introducing any of the items listed until I am able to get a

> mineral test done?

Not necessarily. Most kids are low in most minerals, altho my son was

high iron and high calcium because he drank a lot of milk when he was

younger, and I had given him iron-fortified formula.

Does [or did] your child drink a lot of milk? Did you use iron-based

formula?

I would not recommend giving iron supplements unless your child tests

as low iron on a full body iron panel.

If your child is cf, you can consider calcium supplements. A sign of

calcium deficiency is the child pushes on his eyeballs. If your child

is cf and does not do that, he is probably not deficient, altho you

can give low dose calcium if you want. My son always went hyper and

regressed with calcium supplements, and I went for 2 years with him cf

and never supplemented calcium, and he never had signs of deficiency,

so that was a strong sign.

Most kids are deficient in the other minerals.

You can test if you want, or just add them one at a time and watch for

reactions.

Dana

[Guest guest]

thanks Dana. He is CF and does not drink fortified rice milk - he

can't handle it. He does do a weird thing with his eyes, tho it's

not " pushing on his eyeballs. " It's more of stretching his eyes out

by opening them really wide a million times a day. I haven't figured

out why he does this - maybe he's just tired. I have no idea!

He's on 1/4 t calcium powder 2x a day, tho I doubt he actually

ingests that much b/c it gets stuck all over the sides of the

sippy!! He did have formula with iron in in and used to drink TONS

of milk (between ages 1 and 2 1/2). He's been CF since Feb and we've

seen big gains in behavior and activity level with him (he's ADHD).

I tried the zinc yesterday (Kirkman's Hypo) - just 1/3 of the

capsule. Something just wasn't quite right yesterday and today he

has been wild and not able to hear us and follow instructions. It's

like the old came back for a visit. I wonder if it is b/c

of the zinc. I didn't give it to him today. I thought I'd do either

Magnesium or Vitamin C instead. Maybe he has enough zinc and getting

hyper and crazy is his body's way of telling me to lay off the zinc?

Thanks again!

jodey

> > Dana - thanks for the info! He's never had any testing done, so

I

> > have no idea if he is high in any minerals, etc. Should I hold

off

> > on introducing any of the items listed until I am able to get a

> > mineral test done?

>

>

> Not necessarily. Most kids are low in most minerals, altho my son

was

> high iron and high calcium because he drank a lot of milk when he

was

> younger, and I had given him iron-fortified formula.

>

> Does [or did] your child drink a lot of milk? Did you use iron-

based

> formula?

>

> I would not recommend giving iron supplements unless your child

tests

> as low iron on a full body iron panel.

>

> If your child is cf, you can consider calcium supplements. A sign

of

> calcium deficiency is the child pushes on his eyeballs. If your

child

> is cf and does not do that, he is probably not deficient, altho you

> can give low dose calcium if you want. My son always went hyper and

> regressed with calcium supplements, and I went for 2 years with him

cf

> and never supplemented calcium, and he never had signs of

deficiency,

> so that was a strong sign.

>

> Most kids are deficient in the other minerals.

>

> You can test if you want, or just add them one at a time and watch

for

> reactions.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

> thanks Dana. He is CF and does not drink fortified rice milk - he

> can't handle it. He does do a weird thing with his eyes, tho it's

> not " pushing on his eyeballs. " It's more of stretching his eyes out

> by opening them really wide a million times a day. I haven't figured

> out why he does this - maybe he's just tired. I have no idea!

I know someone who does this. Not sure, but I *think* it is a tic.

For my #1, tics are related to yeast overgrowth. It might also be

other things. Every time I see this person do that, it does make me

think " metal toxicity " .

> He's on 1/4 t calcium powder 2x a day, tho I doubt he actually

> ingests that much b/c it gets stuck all over the sides of the

> sippy!! He did have formula with iron in in and used to drink TONS

> of milk (between ages 1 and 2 1/2).

Try dropping the calcium powder, see if that helps.

If you are not giving it with magnesium, I don't believe much is being

absorbed anyway.

> I tried the zinc yesterday (Kirkman's Hypo) - just 1/3 of the

> capsule. Something just wasn't quite right yesterday and today he

> has been wild and not able to hear us and follow instructions.

He might be highly copper toxic, and the zinc is causing him to dump

copper too fast. Try giving a lot less, see if that helps.

It can also be additives/fillers and not the zinc itself.

>>I didn't give it to him today. I thought I'd do either

> Magnesium or Vitamin C instead.

Probably a good idea.

>>Maybe he has enough zinc and getting

> hyper and crazy is his body's way of telling me to lay off the zinc?

Some kids are high zinc, low copper, instead of the other way around.

I have one kid like that.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I'm going to hold off on the zinc for now. I'm going to get a hair

test done for him - will zinc/copper be on it? I'm going it through

Great Plains b/c they take my insurance.

Also, I started him on 1/2 cap of Magnesium Glycinate this morning,

which is like 50 mg, in addition to the 100mg total (glycinate/oxide)

in the NuThera 2x/day. He's definitely not as out of control as he

was yesterday and seems to be getting back to listening (as well as

can be expected for a 4 yr old!).

He is taking 1000 mg calcium a day (divided into 2 doses), so then

should he be taking 500mg of magnesium? You said I should probably

back off the calcium a bit - how come? Is that b/c w/the magnesium

he'll be absorbing more and might get the crazies again? Or he just

doesn't physically need that much calcium for his age?

Should I be concerned w/the amount of B vitamins he is getting in the

NuThera? I chose this multi based on McCandless' suggestions in

Children with Starving Brains. It's got:

Vitamin B-1 (Mononitrate) 7.5mg (500% Daily Value)

Vitamin B-2 (Riboflavin) 7.5mg (441% Daily Value)

Niacinamide (I think this is a 20 mg (100% Daily Value)

Vitamin B-12 (Cyanocobalamin) 10mcg (166% Daily Value)

P5P (co-enzyme for B-6) 50 mg (Daily Value not

established)

You are an invaluable resource! Thank you so much!

jodey

> > thanks Dana. He is CF and does not drink fortified rice milk -

he

> > can't handle it. He does do a weird thing with his eyes, tho

it's

> > not " pushing on his eyeballs. " It's more of stretching his eyes

out

> > by opening them really wide a million times a day. I haven't

figured

> > out why he does this - maybe he's just tired. I have no idea!

>

>

> I know someone who does this. Not sure, but I *think* it is a tic.

> For my #1, tics are related to yeast overgrowth. It might also be

> other things. Every time I see this person do that, it does make me

> think " metal toxicity " .

>

>

> > He's on 1/4 t calcium powder 2x a day, tho I doubt he actually

> > ingests that much b/c it gets stuck all over the sides of the

> > sippy!! He did have formula with iron in in and used to drink

TONS

> > of milk (between ages 1 and 2 1/2).

>

>

> Try dropping the calcium powder, see if that helps.

>

> If you are not giving it with magnesium, I don't believe much is

being

> absorbed anyway.

>

>

> > I tried the zinc yesterday (Kirkman's Hypo) - just 1/3 of the

> > capsule. Something just wasn't quite right yesterday and today

he

> > has been wild and not able to hear us and follow instructions.

>

>

> He might be highly copper toxic, and the zinc is causing him to dump

> copper too fast. Try giving a lot less, see if that helps.

>

> It can also be additives/fillers and not the zinc itself.

>

>

> >>I didn't give it to him today. I thought I'd do either

> > Magnesium or Vitamin C instead.

>

>

> Probably a good idea.

>

>

> >>Maybe he has enough zinc and getting

> > hyper and crazy is his body's way of telling me to lay off the

zinc?

>

>

> Some kids are high zinc, low copper, instead of the other way

around.

> I have one kid like that.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

> I'm going to hold off on the zinc for now. I'm going to get a hair

> test done for him - will zinc/copper be on it? I'm going it through

> Great Plains b/c they take my insurance.

Great Plains uses DDI. Request the " hair elements " test, not just the

toxic metals test. Zinc/copper will be on it.

> He is taking 1000 mg calcium a day (divided into 2 doses), so then

> should he be taking 500mg of magnesium?

As a minimum, yes.

>>You said I should probably

> back off the calcium a bit - how come?

That is a lot of calcium for a 4yo. If he is pushing on his eyeballs,

that usually means he is deficient, so you would want to give cal/mag,

at least 1000/500 per day, usually more. Otherwise, just giving

calcium straight, without magnesium, is usually not well absorbed.

My kids were calcium *toxic*, and #2 did drink a LOT of milk when he

was younger. For my kids, giving any calcium at all would cause hyper

and regression.

> Should I be concerned w/the amount of B vitamins he is getting in the

> NuThera?

Depends on if it is helping him, or causing him problems.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I've not seen any problems at all w/the vitamin amounts - in fact,

I've seen only improvement in behavior, compliance (though he has

been whiny the past couple of days, but that may be due to some

other issues outside of supplements).

Can you give me an idea of when and how you give supps to your

kids? For instance, I've been giving his supps 2x a day,

once in the morning and once in the evening. But in your previous

messages, you suggested giving the " extra " magnesium away from the

calcium. He's having a snack now (5pm), so I poured the whole cap

of 100mg of Mag over it. Then I'll give him another 50mg plus his

reg supps tonight before bed.

Is this the way most people do it or should I be doing something

different?

Thanks!

Jodey

> > I'm going to hold off on the zinc for now. I'm going to get a

hair

> > test done for him - will zinc/copper be on it? I'm going it

through

> > Great Plains b/c they take my insurance.

>

>

> Great Plains uses DDI. Request the " hair elements " test, not just

the

> toxic metals test. Zinc/copper will be on it.

>

>

> > He is taking 1000 mg calcium a day (divided into 2 doses), so

then

> > should he be taking 500mg of magnesium?

>

>

> As a minimum, yes.

>

>

> >>You said I should probably

> > back off the calcium a bit - how come?

>

>

> That is a lot of calcium for a 4yo. If he is pushing on his

eyeballs,

> that usually means he is deficient, so you would want to give

cal/mag,

> at least 1000/500 per day, usually more. Otherwise, just giving

> calcium straight, without magnesium, is usually not well absorbed.

>

> My kids were calcium *toxic*, and #2 did drink a LOT of milk when

he

> was younger. For my kids, giving any calcium at all would cause

hyper

> and regression.

>

>

> > Should I be concerned w/the amount of B vitamins he is getting

in the

> > NuThera?

>

>

> Depends on if it is helping him, or causing him problems.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

> Can you give me an idea of when and how you give supps to your

> kids? For instance, I've been giving his supps 2x a day,

> once in the morning and once in the evening.

Some supplements you don't want to give after about 4pm, because they

can cause sleep problems.

There were points in my kids' lives when I gave supplements 3-4x per

day. Usually I give 2x per day. Now I only give 1x per day.

Dana