Re: Not on diet and taking enzymes

[Guest guest]

> Hello everyone:

>

> Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed

me off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

first...that I

> could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

>

> The GFCF diet was a disaster for us. I know it works for some. I

thought

> that I had read of people trying enzymes without diet and seeing

improvement.

> Is that wrong?

>

> Please help...we are four days into this and seeing some good,

some bad (as I

> have posted) but I don't want to make him worse.

>

> Thanks,

>

My ds wasn't GFCF when we started enzymes and I think its one of the

best things we ever did for him. He's healthier, happier, and much

more social. We did just go milk free a couple weeks ago (not CF,

just milk so far) and I think his skin looks better. How could

enzymes possibly make him worse?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If I recall correctly, you already indicated that the GFCF diet had shown no

results for your child. It seems to me that trying enzymes is a logical step in

this case, to see if there might be some benefit as far as digestive issues that

were not addressed by the diet.

I can't speak for whoever e-mailed you, but I do know that there is quite a

debate whether giving enzymes with gluten- and/or casein-containing foods

(versus having the child on the gfcf diet) is like giving a poison with its

antidote rather than just avoiding the poison. This is usually an argument

against going with enzymes first (from the standard American diet), not against

replacing what has apparently not been a beneficial experience with the diet

with another intervention. For one thing, it all but assumes that the child

would be/would have been a responder to the diet if you had tried that first,

but it sounds like this has not been the case for your child. If you have indeed

been doing the diet for a full year without apparent results, I would say that

is a long enough trial to see if it does/does not help your child, and trying

something else might be useful.

At the same time, you might want to make sure there has been no hidden source

of gluten and/or casein and also look at whether you have been relying heavily

(or at all for some children) on soy products as substitutes (soy flour for

gluten, soy milk and cheeses for casein), as many of the children who respond to

the diet metabolize soy similarly to how they metabolize gluten and/or casein,

into morphine-like peptides, so if your child is one of this group and has had

soy, maybe that is why you have not seen results from the gfcf diet. If you

suspect this, I would gradually withdraw soy from your child's diet (similar to

the plan on www.tacanow.com for going GFCF) to reduce the chance/severity of

withdrawal as the peptides decrease and also to help you work up to having a

gfcfsf diet for your child as far as shopping and cooking.

Hope this helps.

Trish64@... wrote:

Hello everyone:

Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed me off list

to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF first...that I

could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

The GFCF diet was a disaster for us. I know it works for some. I thought

that I had read of people trying enzymes without diet and seeing improvement.

Is that wrong?

Please help...we are four days into this and seeing some good, some bad (as I

have posted) but I don't want to make him worse.

Thanks,

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Trish

We did diet for almost a year before discovering enzymes. It was

not a year filled with great things. While removing dairy products

did bring on some language, I think I probably created many more food

problems/aversions and caused more nutritional deficiencies/yeast in

the meantime. (Also made us all crazy) And now that we are using

enzymes, I am having a hard time un-doing the diet. (now she won't

touch some of the healthy foods that she used to enjoy)

If I had it all to do over again, I would definitely try the enzymes

first!!

Sheresa

>

> Hello everyone:

>

> Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed me

off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

first...that I

> could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

>

> The GFCF diet was a disaster for us. I know it works for some. I

thought

> that I had read of people trying enzymes without diet and seeing

improvement.

> Is that wrong?

>

> Please help...we are four days into this and seeing some good, some

bad (as I

> have posted) but I don't want to make him worse.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The only grain my son can tolerate is gluten. Using peptizyde he is

fine. Ideally there would be a non-wheat option, but for him right

now there is not. You can use enzymes to block the opiate effect of

gluten.

If your child is celiac or has a diagnosed allergy to wheat, that's

a different problem and no you shouldn't use enzymes and eat gluten

(or casein if it's a milk allergy) for those issues.

Every child is different. In our family every individual is

different. My son can't tolerate rice (or any gf flour) and is cf,

more for calcium issues than casein problems; my daughter is

severely allergic to casein, wheat free, and does best with oats and

rice; and I eat dairy as one of my main foods, but if I get near any

form of gluten, especially oats, I'm a physical and mental wreck for

days afterwards.

The point - besides how fun it is to cook here - is that, we all

have to find what diet/enzyme/etc. combination works best for each

individual child.

Amy

>

> Hello everyone:

>

> Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed

me off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

first...that I

> could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

>

> The GFCF diet was a disaster for us. I know it works for some. I

thought

> that I had read of people trying enzymes without diet and seeing

improvement.

> Is that wrong?

>

> Please help...we are four days into this and seeing some good,

some bad (as I

> have posted) but I don't want to make him worse.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 20/06/2006 18:14:37 GMT Daylight Time, rsbarron@...

writes:

If I had it all to do over again, I would definitely try the enzymes

first!!

>>>Me too x 100000000000

Mandi in Uk - Sam off diet with HNI 4 years - yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Guest guest]

> Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed me

off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

first...that I

> could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

My son improved when I added back wheat with enzymes. I know another

child who improved when casein was added back.

Each child is different. I would not continue an intervention [like

gfcf] if I had done it for a while and saw no positive results. I

would move on to something else, especially if that " something else "

was causing improvements.

Dana

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 24/06/2006 22:00:01 GMT Daylight Time, GSWILKI@...

writes:

Someone emailed me

off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

>>>>This is incorrect but commonly spread info

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

>

> Hello everyone:

>

> Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed me

off list

> to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

Hi ,

We tried gf faithfully for 4 months, no major differences, and neither

school nor daycare noticed a difference when we stopped without telling

them. We started enzymes, daycare knew but school didn't, and the

school spontaneously commented on the great improvements in

concentration, reduced activity level, more interaction and generally

happier. There seem to be quite a few parents who no longer do the

diet with their kids, or at least not so strictly, once established on

enzymes, and they seem happy with their choice. I think some parents

might prefer to leave their doctors/practitioners in the dark about

flouting or abandoning the diet. If you are happy and your child seems

well, then I think you should relax and have confidence in your

choice. When it comes down to it, we know that all our kids have their

individual differences. Sue

>

[Guest guest]

I sure do agree with you Mandy. I have thought of enzymes this way.

Will they cause harm??? Not usually. Is there a chance it will

help? Yes. Why. This to me is where it gets very important.

Because of so much hybridization of plants and chemical fertilizer,

contaminates, and of course, the biggie...overprocessing...foods tend

to not have the enzymes that would be neccesary to break food down

for digestion...so in my opinion, I believe, enzymes are something

that is needed, on or off a diet....just because it is hard to get

sufficent enzymes thru food.

jmho

Ronni

>

> In a message dated 24/06/2006 22:00:01 GMT Daylight Time,

GSWILKI@...

> writes:

>

> Someone emailed me

> off list

> > to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF

>

>

>

> >>>>This is incorrect but commonly spread info

>

> Mandi in UK

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>Someone emailed me off list to say that a child shouldn't be on

enzymes if they aren't GFCF first...that I could be doing more harm

than good unless he is GFCF.

This is not a universal truth, although in someone's individual case,

they may have felt it was. People can get really protective of their

special diets. Thousands of families have used enzyme and not GFCF.

Or start enzymes first and then go to food eliminations. And even

special diet food needs to be digested!

You may find enzymes without GFCF work best.

You may find enzymes with GFCF work best.

You may find GFCF works best.

You may find neither of these and something completely different

works best.

But you need to base this on your individual results and your

child/youself, and not out of fear or guilt or bullying.

Unfortunately, there has been quite a lot of wrong information put

out on enzymes over the years simply due to little understanding of

the enzyme issue, fear, or people having particular business

interests. And, very unfortunately, some companies selling enzymes

have been just as much behind spreading false information against

other companies' enzyme products as any one else.

That is the great benefit of having independent discussion groups

like this.

If the anonymous writer gave a reason they felt that one must be GFCF

before taking enzymes, I would really like to hear it. Perhaps there

is something that needs clearing up, or further explanation. Perhaps

this writer had a special situation they were focused on. You should

be able to have a reason one way or the other, if possible, and not

be left hanging with a " he said/she said " type conclusion.

.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I've heard now from several sources that I could be doing more harm than

good using enzymes without GFCF. One person was just passing along something

written by Jeff Bradstreet. Other sources are mainly referencing J. McCandless

and her work with kids. I obviously don't want to do anything that will

make my son worse. The goal is that he get better. He is not even a week into

enzymes and he is definitely scripting a lot more. That is worrisome. I was

hoping the enzymes would help stop the scripting, not increase it! I have

been told by others to give it a few weeks before I quit, which I intend to do

since it is summer vacation.

I remember very clearly being so diligent about GFCF diet and not seeing

anything and the diet people telling me to just persevere...that I just must not

be doing the diet right...that I just needed to also eliminate soy and corn

(we did do a food allergy panel and nothing showed up)...that of course the

reason the diet did nothing for my son was because I wasn't doing enough. So I

have very negative feelings about the diet. If the enzymes only work if

you follow a special diet, then we can't do them.

Anyway, he doesn't seem to be sick from taking them so we will soldier on

for a few more weeks. I hope to be able to report back that he is doing

amazingly well. I would love to hear from people who did enzymes and not the

diet

who had major wows.

Thanks,

I am just really concerned about my son's health.

In a message dated 6/26/2006 2:59:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

snowbear@... writes:

>>>>Someone emailed me off list to say that a child shouldn't be on

enzymes if they aren't GFCF first...that I could be doing more harm

than good unless he is GFCF.

This is not a universal truth, although in someone's individual case,

they may have felt it was. People can get really protective of their

special diets. Thousands of families have used enzyme and not GFCF.

Or start enzymes first and then go to food eliminations. And even

special diet food needs to be digested!

You may find enzymes without GFCF work best.

You may find enzymes with GFCF work best.

You may find GFCF works best.

You may find neither of these and something completely different

works best.

But you need to base this on your individual results and your

child/youself, and not out of fear or guilt or bullying.

Unfortunately, there has been quite a lot of wrong information put

out on enzymes over the years simply due to little understanding of

the enzyme issue, fear, or people having particular business

interests. And, very unfortunately, some companies selling enzymes

have been just as much behind spreading false information against

other companies' enzyme products as any one else.

That is the great benefit of having independent discussion groups

like this.

If the anonymous writer gave a reason they felt that one must be GFCF

before taking enzymes, I would really like to hear it. Perhaps there

is something that needs clearing up, or further explanation. Perhaps

this writer had a special situation they were focused on. You should

be able to have a reason one way or the other, if possible, and not

be left hanging with a " he said/she said " type conclusion.

.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

We read the book, came off gfcf completely (jan 06) and haven't looked

back..best of luck!

Bernard

Trish64@... wrote:

Hello everyone:

Now I am really nervous about this enyme thing. Someone emailed me off list

to say that a child shouldn't be on enzymes if they aren't GFCF first...that I

could be doing more harm than good unless he is GFCF.

The GFCF diet was a disaster for us. I know it works for some. I thought

that I had read of people trying enzymes without diet and seeing improvement.

Is that wrong?

Please help...we are four days into this and seeing some good, some bad (as I

have posted) but I don't want to make him worse.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I cannot reply as far as enzymes, as we are just looking into this aspect of

things, but do want to comment on one thing in this post. I also believe I may

have responded to this thread at some point in the past few days, so please

forgive me if I am repeating myself.

Specifically, like the peptide issue for gluten and/or casein, the peptide

issue for soy (some of our kids metabolize soy the same way they do gluten

and/or casein, i.e., into psychoactive peptides related to morphine instead of

all the way down to amino acids like most people do) will not show up on a food

allergy panel (IgG or IgE), as it is a completely separate issue. If your child

breaks down soy into peptides, being on the GFCF (but not SF) diet will not have

the results of eliminating all 3 from the diet. Being that soy is a common

substitute for both gluten (soy flour) and casein (soy milk and other dairy

products), it is possible he is getting more soy than he was before you started

the gfcf diet, so getting his " drugs " this way instead of from the other 2

proteins that you have eliminated from his diet.

Whether you have your son stay on the diet or not is your choice, but you

might want to look closely at whether your child " craves " soy products, which

would indicate he is breaking soy down into the peptides, before saying it

didn't work. From what I understand, the peptidase enzymes deal with soy as well

as gluten and casein, but I am not sure.

Trish64@... wrote:

I remember very clearly being so diligent about GFCF diet and not seeing

anything and the diet people telling me to just persevere...that I just must not

be doing the diet right...that I just needed to also eliminate soy and corn

(we did do a food allergy panel and nothing showed up)...that of course the

reason the diet did nothing for my son was because I wasn't doing enough. So I

have very negative feelings about the diet. If the enzymes only work if

you follow a special diet, then we can't do them.

Anyway, he doesn't seem to be sick from taking them so we will soldier on

for a few more weeks. I hope to be able to report back that he is doing

amazingly well. I would love to hear from people who did enzymes and not the

diet

who had major wows.

Thanks,

__________________________________________________