Re: Complete change in behaviour, very scary, any ideas please??

[Guest guest]

> This holiday he physically attacked his grandma and

> grandpa (both 83) and his six year old brother as well as attacking me

> with his fists and nails.

For my son any of the following could bring on violent rages: food

dye, BHA or BHT (especially awful, and in the US always in fried

food), MSG, corn syrup, steroids, aspartame, B6, glutathione,

probiotics, brainchild vites, MB12. Also yeast and bacteria overgrowth.

You could try subtracting one by one, or drop everything and start

back up. But I'd bet anything it's one or more of the supps he's not

tolerating.

In retrospect I think adrenal weakness could have been another cause

but he got over the rages before I realized that.

>This isn't our child, he loves his family,

> we're now actually frightened of what he'll do next.

You so have my sympathy. That was a terrible time for our family. I

hope you come through it quickly.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Comments interspersed.

S S

<p>Our son Tom is now 8 and has been on biomedical treatment for 2

years<br>

in February. In the past six months in particular he has gained lots<br>

of language - 500 words of which 20-30 are expressive. A big step for<br>

him after regressing dramatically at 3 years of age. <br>

*Have you figured out what happended at age 3 to cause his regression?

However, since we started treating his gut bugs in October, he is a<br>

different child. He is incredibly aggressive and despite treatment<br>

with charcoal and oxypowder to absorb toxins and keep things moving he<br>

is still moved to outbursts of pure venom. We know he is impacted<br>

following an x-ray in June 06, since introducing movicol and oxypowder<br>

his " pain avoidance " movement is much reduced but replaced by this<br>

terrible rage.

*This is December and he's been impacted since June?!

This holiday he physically attacked his grandma and<br>

grandpa (both 83) and his six year old brother as well as attacking me<br>

with his fists and nails.

*Did/is the aggression occurring in his own home or elsewhere? Did he have

foods, candy, beverages with artificial colors and/or flavors over the holidays?

Does he have sensory hypersensitivities (auditory, olfactory, visual, tactile,

gustatory)? Does he generally have problems with transitions and lack of

structure? Have you tried asking why he's being aggressive/where he hurts? Are

you sure he doesn't have an ear infection or UTI?

This isn't our child, he loves his family,<br>

we're now actually frightened of what he'll do next. He's been on<br>

VRM1 and 2 since finishing flagyl. 2 drops of each in a glass of<br>

water. He takes probiotics, sacc boulardii, brainchild vits and mins,<br>

he is gf, takes glutathione, folinic, b6, mag, epsom salts baths, edta<br>

caps, zinc (pm), NCD, MB12 nasal spray. <br>

Consider dropping the glutathione and EDTA (what are you trying to chelate and

how long has he been on these?)

<br>

THe movicol, oxypowder etc have made him very " loose " so that he's<br>

back in nappies. He shows no interest in using the toilet at all. He<br>

also seems to have developed a mania for mushrooms - he's never eaten<br>

one in his life but now he's munching them raw from the packet.

*What kind of mushrooms? Shiitake mushrooms should not be eaten raw, they give

people a " buzz " . You say he's gf, but what does he actually eat (besides the

mushrooms)? Is he drinking plenty of filtered water?

Is the<br>

oxypowder depleting him of potassium? What are we doing wrong? He's<br>

just terribly, terribly angry and we're almost at the end of our<br>

tether (as is he, poor little man)<br>

<br>

Steph, Uk<br>

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[Guest guest]

Here's a link to info on nutrients in mushrooms.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20e2.html

S S

He also seems to have developed a mania for mushrooms - he's never eaten<br>

one in his life but now he's munching them raw from the packet.

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[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks so much for this.

Tom eats and drinks fairly well - his diet is a lot more varied than a

couple of years ago. Meat, quinoa, gf toast, apples, water, toms,

rice cakes, usual boy food but gf and eats very little milk. We

wondered whether in clearing his impaction we were actually allowing

him to absorb things that previously weren't getting through. We

have no way of knowing whether or not his impaction is clearing -

hence he's on movicol and oxypowder to keep things moving as when we

stop it he has formed BMs but gut pain. When his x ray showed

impaction he was already having 2 BM's a day. Now he has two to three

but the oxypowder seems to be strong stuff and we're not keen to keep

him on it indefinitely. He does take your hand and push it into his

stomach but it's high up - around his solar plexus not where his old

bowel pain used to be. His cravings are currently mushrooms (just

regular white cap), rice cakes, sesame/pumpkin seeds which have a soy

coating. We've never tested him for food allergies but he has a mild

gluten reaction on his OAT. The NHS in the UK wouldn't xray him again

and parents from the UK bring their kids over to see Arthur Kirgsman

when they want gut investigations doing as the NHS is somewhat in

denial. We spoke to Tom's NHS Gastroenterologist before CHristmas and

he said give more movicol. And you wonder how long you can keep

shoving things through him and whether it's stopping good stuff

getting into him with this constant forcing things along.

The EDTA is for his high lead levels (on hair, poryphirin, IV EDTA

urine test etc). He's also got mercury levels that are fairly high

according to poryphirin test. He's been on it since October also. Can

it produce bad behaviours?

He's usually great with transitioning etc, we're lucky in that

respect. And he adores his grandparents, looked so pleased to see them

and then hit them!

The only new stuff we've added is the VRM1 and 2 following teh course

of flagyl and the EDTA. HOwever, this behaviour is after he's been on

those for a couple of months, which is why we're mystified. BUT

something is clearly not well so we need to think about taking it out

of his regime.

His gut just isn't right but no one here is going to treat that any

time soon. I wonder if in trying to keep it clear we're causing

problems. This is a kid who never had any distention of any sort -

even the Gastro was amazed what the x-ray showed (and we waited 12

months for that xray so Tom was in pain for a long time)

I really fear for what he's going through, it isn't fair for a child

to suffer like this. Presumably when we see his paediatrician next

week she'll tell us we're causing the problem with the biomedical

treatment, that's an argument I am already rehearsing!

Steph x

>

> <p>Our son Tom is now 8 and has been on biomedical

treatment for 2 years<br>

> in February. In the past six months in particular he has gained

lots<br>

> of language - 500 words of which 20-30 are expressive. A big step

for<br>

> him after regressing dramatically at 3 years of age. <br>

>

> *Have you figured out what happended at age 3 to cause his regression?

>

> However, since we started treating his gut bugs in October, he is a<br>

> different child. He is incredibly aggressive and despite treatment<br>

> with charcoal and oxypowder to absorb toxins and keep things moving

he<br>

> is still moved to outbursts of pure venom. We know he is impacted<br>

> following an x-ray in June 06, since introducing movicol and

oxypowder<br>

> his " pain avoidance " movement is much reduced but replaced by this<br>

> terrible rage.

>

> *This is December and he's been impacted since June?!

>

> This holiday he physically attacked his grandma and<br>

> grandpa (both 83) and his six year old brother as well as attacking

me<br>

> with his fists and nails.

>

> *Did/is the aggression occurring in his own home or elsewhere? Did

he have foods, candy, beverages with artificial colors and/or flavors

over the holidays? Does he have sensory hypersensitivities (auditory,

olfactory, visual, tactile, gustatory)? Does he generally have

problems with transitions and lack of structure? Have you tried

asking why he's being aggressive/where he hurts? Are you sure he

doesn't have an ear infection or UTI?

>

> This isn't our child, he loves his family,<br>

> we're now actually frightened of what he'll do next. He's been on<br>

> VRM1 and 2 since finishing flagyl. 2 drops of each in a glass of<br>

> water. He takes probiotics, sacc boulardii, brainchild vits and

mins,<br>

> he is gf, takes glutathione, folinic, b6, mag, epsom salts baths,

edta<br>

> caps, zinc (pm), NCD, MB12 nasal spray. <br>

>

> Consider dropping the glutathione and EDTA (what are you trying to

chelate and how long has he been on these?)

>

> <br>

> THe movicol, oxypowder etc have made him very " loose " so that he's<br>

> back in nappies. He shows no interest in using the toilet at all.

He<br>

> also seems to have developed a mania for mushrooms - he's never

eaten<br>

> one in his life but now he's munching them raw from the packet.

>

> *What kind of mushrooms? Shiitake mushrooms should not be eaten

raw, they give people a " buzz " . You say he's gf, but what does he

actually eat (besides the mushrooms)? Is he drinking plenty of

filtered water?

>

> Is the<br>

> oxypowder depleting him of potassium? What are we doing wrong? He's<br>

> just terribly, terribly angry and we're almost at the end of our<br>

> tether (as is he, poor little man)<br>

> <br>

> Steph, Uk<br>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

> The most personalized portal on the Web!

>

[Guest guest]

>>We know he is impacted

> following an x-ray in June 06, since introducing movicol and oxypowder

> his " pain avoidance " movement is much reduced but replaced by this

> terrible rage.

Constipation ideas

http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm

> VRM1 and 2 since finishing flagyl. 2 drops of each in a glass of

> water. He takes probiotics, sacc boulardii, brainchild vits and mins,

> he is gf, takes glutathione, folinic, b6, mag, epsom salts baths, edta

> caps, zinc (pm), NCD, MB12 nasal spray.

Several of these things caused behavior issues for my son. Have you

considered removing everything and seeing if that helps?

Maybe he needs the flagyl again, because bad bacteria problems caused

aggression and diarrhea for my son.

> also seems to have developed a mania for mushrooms - he's never eaten

> one in his life but now he's munching them raw from the packet.

What happens if you eliminate them from your house?

Dana

[Guest guest]

Comments interspersed again.

S S

<p>Hi <br>

<br>

Thanks so much for this. <br>

<br>

Tom eats and drinks fairly well - his diet is a lot more varied than a<br>

couple of years ago. Meat, quinoa, gf toast, apples, water, toms,<br>

rice cakes, usual boy food but gf and eats very little milk. We<br>

wondered whether in clearing his impaction we were actually allowing<br>

him to absorb things that previously weren't getting through.

*Have you tried digestive enzymes? Consider NAET (www.naet.com).

We<br>

have no way of knowing whether or not his impaction is clearing -<br>

hence he's on movicol and oxypowder to keep things moving as when we<br>

stop it he has formed BMs but gut pain. When his x ray showed<br>

impaction he was already having 2 BM's a day. Now he has two to three<br>

but the oxypowder seems to be strong stuff and we're not keen to keep<br>

him on it indefinitely. He does take your hand and push it into his<br>

stomach but it's high up - around his solar plexus not where his old<br>

bowel pain used to be.

*Will he let you massage his hands or feet? Try that and see where the tender

spots are then compare them to a reflexology chart.

His cravings are currently mushrooms (just<br>

regular white cap), rice cakes, sesame/pumpkin seeds which have a soy<br>

coating. We've never tested him for food allergies but he has a mild<br>

gluten reaction on his OAT. The NHS in the UK wouldn't xray him again<br>

and parents from the UK bring their kids over to see Arthur Kirgsman<br>

when they want gut investigations doing as the NHS is somewhat in<br>

denial. We spoke to Tom's NHS Gastroenterologist before CHristmas and<br>

he said give more movicol.

*What's in the movicol?

And you wonder how long you can keep<br>

shoving things through him and whether it's stopping good stuff<br>

getting into him with this constant forcing things along.<br>

<br>

The EDTA is for his high lead levels (on hair, poryphirin, IV EDTA<br>

urine test etc). He's also got mercury levels that are fairly high<br>

according to poryphirin test. He's been on it since October also. Can<br>

it produce bad behaviours?<br>

*Andy Cutler has said that EDTA should not be used for people with mercury

toxicity. Any reason you've opted not to use DMSA? It's a chelator of both

mercury and lead.

<br>

He's usually great with transitioning etc, we're lucky in that<br>

respect. And he adores his grandparents, looked so pleased to see them<br>

and then hit them! <br>

<br>

The only new stuff we've added is the VRM1 and 2

*I've never heard of these. What are they for?

following teh course<br>

of flagyl and the EDTA. HOwever, this behaviour is after he's been on<br>

those for a couple of months, which is why we're mystified. BUT<br>

something is clearly not well so we need to think about taking it out<br>

of his regime.<br>

<br>

His gut just isn't right but no one here is going to treat that any<br>

time soon. I wonder if in trying to keep it clear we're causing<br>

problems. This is a kid who never had any distention of any sort -<br>

even the Gastro was amazed what the x-ray showed (and we waited 12<br>

months for that xray so Tom was in pain for a long time)<br>

<br>

I really fear for what he's going through, it isn't fair for a child<br>

to suffer like this. Presumably when we see his paediatrician next<br>

week she'll tell us we're causing the problem with the biomedical<br>

treatment, that's an argument I am already rehearsing!<br>

<br>

Steph x<br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

>>His cravings are currently mushrooms (just

> regular white cap), rice cakes, sesame/pumpkin seeds which have a soy

> coating.

Rice was horribly constipating for my #3, and removing it caused nice

improvements other than eliminating the constipation, so in addition

to causing constipation, he also did not tolerate it as a food. My #2

did not tolerate rice either. Try removing rice, see what happens.

Dana

[Guest guest]

<<For my son any of the following could bring on violent rages: food

dye, BHA or BHT (especially awful, and in the US always in fried

food), MSG, corn syrup, steroids, aspartame, B6, glutathione,

probiotics, brainchild vites, MB12. Also yeast and bacteria overgrowth.>>

Hi Nell,

We, too, are going through a horrible time of aggression, biting, destruction...

the diet is strict, so it's def not that. I already decided as of the worst

night ever with him two days ago, to remove supplements. Perhaps I need to

remove more. I stopped all chelation and expanded the antiviral/antiyeast. The

last two days have been heaven compared to the months and esp. weeks before

this.

He " comes in and out " but already we see the return. He had a horrendous

reaction to the MB12 (and the Valtrex), so there is good reason for the

behavior, but I think that perhaps some of the supps as well are playing into

all of this...

You mention probiotics for your child, is this for all probiotics or are there

some that work? And the B6 I already took out when I took the B12 b/c we were so

troubled at the reaction (he didn't sleep for about one week including two full

nights up all night). He became extremely hyperactive and he had never had any

prior to this. I panicked and removed all the added B's but not the

multivitamin. Do you supplement B's at all? On all tests that he has ever had,

he is extremely low on B6, but can't seem to handle any form of B6 at all.

I am now being very cautious and remain shell shocked, so I won't be adding

anything in anytime soon. Any thoughts are very much appreciated,

Millie

[Guest guest]

No thoughts of any use, just my sympathy!

Steph x

>

> <<For my son any of the following could bring on violent rages: food

> dye, BHA or BHT (especially awful, and in the US always in fried

> food), MSG, corn syrup, steroids, aspartame, B6, glutathione,

> probiotics, brainchild vites, MB12. Also yeast and bacteria

overgrowth.>>

>

> Hi Nell,

>

> We, too, are going through a horrible time of aggression, biting,

destruction... the diet is strict, so it's def not that. I already

decided as of the worst night ever with him two days ago, to remove

supplements. Perhaps I need to remove more. I stopped all chelation

and expanded the antiviral/antiyeast. The last two days have been

heaven compared to the months and esp. weeks before this.

>

> He " comes in and out " but already we see the return. He had a

horrendous reaction to the MB12 (and the Valtrex), so there is good

reason for the behavior, but I think that perhaps some of the supps as

well are playing into all of this...

>

> You mention probiotics for your child, is this for all probiotics or

are there some that work? And the B6 I already took out when I took

the B12 b/c we were so troubled at the reaction (he didn't sleep for

about one week including two full nights up all night). He became

extremely hyperactive and he had never had any prior to this. I

panicked and removed all the added B's but not the multivitamin. Do

you supplement B's at all? On all tests that he has ever had, he is

extremely low on B6, but can't seem to handle any form of B6 at all.

>

> I am now being very cautious and remain shell shocked, so I won't be

adding anything in anytime soon. Any thoughts are very much appreciated,

>

> Millie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Start withdrawing the interventions that were introduced about the time this

began.

When was the Flagyl use relative to all this? It is very hard on the liver.

Andy

> Our son Tom is now 8 and has been on biomedical treatment for 2 years

> in February. In the past six months in particular he has gained lots

> of language - 500 words of which 20-30 are expressive. A big step for

> him after regressing dramatically at 3 years of age.

>

> However, since we started treating his gut bugs in October, he is a

> different child. He is incredibly aggressive and despite treatment

> with charcoal and oxypowder to absorb toxins and keep things moving he

> is still moved to outbursts of pure venom. We know he is impacted

> following an x-ray in June 06, since introducing movicol and oxypowder

> his " pain avoidance " movement is much reduced but replaced by this

> terrible rage. This holiday he physically attacked his grandma and

> grandpa (both 83) and his six year old brother as well as attacking me

> with his fists and nails. This isn't our child, he loves his family,

> we're now actually frightened of what he'll do next. He's been on

> VRM1 and 2 since finishing flagyl. 2 drops of each in a glass of

> water. He takes probiotics, sacc boulardii, brainchild vits and mins,

> he is gf, takes glutathione, folinic, b6, mag, epsom salts baths, edta

> caps, zinc (pm), NCD, MB12 nasal spray.

>

> THe movicol, oxypowder etc have made him very " loose " so that he's

> back in nappies. He shows no interest in using the toilet at all. He

> also seems to have developed a mania for mushrooms - he's never eaten

> one in his life but now he's munching them raw from the packet. Is the

> oxypowder depleting him of potassium? What are we doing wrong? He's

> just terribly, terribly angry and we're almost at the end of our

> tether (as is he, poor little man)

>

> Steph, Uk

>

[Guest guest]

> I stopped all chelation and expanded the antiviral/antiyeast. The

last two days have been heaven compared to the months and esp. weeks

before this.

Whew, glad it's better. You'll be able to start chelating again soon.

>

> You mention probiotics for your child, is this for all probiotics or

are there some that work?

I think probiotics are one of those things that work fabulously for a

lot of kids but are disastrous for a few. I tried a lot of different

kinds, but never found one n could tolerate without rages or at

least grumpiness. Now, after 90-some rounds, he can tolerate them, but

I'm not so sure they're doing much for him.

>I panicked and removed all the added B's but not the multivitamin. Do

you supplement B's at all? On all tests that he has ever had, he is

extremely low on B6, but can't seem to handle any form of B6 at all.

I never found a multi that wasn't a problem in one way or another.

They always had at least one ingredient that caused problems, and none

of them had the right amounts or forms of anything. The B vites --

well, only B6, B12, and B2 -- were a major problem. I made my own B

complex with only B1, B3, and B5, and that was very helpful.

Eventually, with folinic acid, he could take B12 sublingual, and now

he can tolerate B2. I'm sure he's deficient in B6 but he can't

tolerate any form of it at all, even with No-Fenol, so it will just

have to wait until he can.

Damn Bs!

Nell