Re: Nell, , Others: Palmitate v. Cis Vitamin A

[Guest guest]

Anne,

Just my opinion, but thinking that the palmitate is not a problem for ALL kids.

Andy has said in this and other posts he does not think it is a problem for any

kid.

We do use all of them the clo, the retinyl acetate, the palmitate and mixed

caretonoids. We have also given them all seperately, I have never noticed that

there is any difference in them other than when we are faced with a cold, the

acetate/palmitate versions seem to " get in " more quickly.

That does not mean there might be a subset of kids who do poorly or worse on the

palmitate form. But as to it causing ASD, again, not much on chemistry, but it

seems doubtful, to me. The palmitate form of Vitamin A is in everything and

almost impossible to avoid unless you home school and you never take your child

anywhere or they never go to a friend/relative's house. Anything else that has

not agreed with her stomach produced immediate symptoms so thinking this would

show itself, as well.

Btw, she did have the vision problems Megson talks about which were

helped/eliminated by the clo, but has received palmitate afterward and has never

had a reappearance of the vision problems. Not iron clad proof, but it's there.

OTOH, the natural forms of anything are always appealing, to me.

Some kids cannot tolerate clo, thinking about kids with thyroid problems in

particular. But if you have that problem worked out, I would try the cis form

that is in the clo. Clo was wonderful for us and thinking we will always give

it.

[ ] Nell, , Others: Palmitate v. Cis Vitamin A

Nell, , and others,

Based on Andy's post (http://onibasu.com/archives/am/52509.html?

highlight=andrewhallcutler%20retinyl) on Vitamin A, we have been

using a mycellized retinyl palmitate at pretty high levels (about

35,000 IU) daily for maintenance purposes. My son's visual stims

are virtually non-existent now. We haven't done particularly well

with CLO in the past, but it has been a while since I tried it.

Under Megson's approach, will the cis form offer additional benefits

over the retinyl palmitate such that I should consider trying to add

that back in on top of the RP?

Thanks,

Anne

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > This article is fascinating. What is 'natural " vitamin A as

> oppossed to regular vitamin A found in multivitamins?

>

> The " cis " form is natural, vit A palmitate is not. You can only

get a

> decent amount of the cis form in some organ meats, breastmilk, and

cod

> liver oil.

>

> > Where can I buy this natural form of vitamin A and how much to

give?

>

> It's in CLO. Give 1 teaspoon a day for a kid older than 5. If any

of

> you mothers out there have nightblindness, you should be taking a

t. a

> day too.

>

> I really recommend the DVD of Megson's talk at Autism One. It

helps a

> lot to see her and have the power point to follow through all that

> biochemistry. And she gave the biochemical reasons for some of the

> stuff n used to do that baffled me, like having a day-long

> meltdown when I rearranged the furniture in his sister's room.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Curious what you know about kids with hypo T problems and CLO? Can

you share? My son has very low levels of Vit A, severe side-

glancing and bad gut issues. 2.5 years of Vit A (CLO and mycelized)

has not helped. We are checking into treating his thyroid. Thanks!

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > This article is fascinating. What is 'natural " vitamin A as

> > oppossed to regular vitamin A found in multivitamins?

> >

> > The " cis " form is natural, vit A palmitate is not. You can

only

> get a

> > decent amount of the cis form in some organ meats, breastmilk,

and

> cod

> > liver oil.

> >

> > > Where can I buy this natural form of vitamin A and how much

to

> give?

> >

> > It's in CLO. Give 1 teaspoon a day for a kid older than 5. If

any

> of

> > you mothers out there have nightblindness, you should be

taking a

> t. a

> > day too.

> >

> > I really recommend the DVD of Megson's talk at Autism One. It

> helps a

> > lot to see her and have the power point to follow through all

that

> > biochemistry. And she gave the biochemical reasons for some of

the

> > stuff n used to do that baffled me, like having a day-long

> > meltdown when I rearranged the furniture in his sister's room.

> >

> > Nell

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Nell, , and others,

>

> Based on Andy's post (http://onibasu.com/archives/am/52509.html?

> highlight=andrewhallcutler%20retinyl) on Vitamin A, we have been

> using a mycellized retinyl palmitate at pretty high levels (about

> 35,000 IU) daily for maintenance purposes. My son's visual stims

> are virtually non-existent now.

Yay! Is his gut in decent shape?

We haven't done particularly well

> with CLO in the past, but it has been a while since I tried it.

What kind and what happened?

> Under Megson's approach, will the cis form offer additional benefits

> over the retinyl palmitate such that I should consider trying to add

> that back in on top of the RP?

I don't know about doing them both at once, that would be a lot of A.

But you could play with it. Do you have nightblindness? Did your son

get the DTaP? If I've got this right, the idea is that a genetic

defect (which also causes nightblindness) half-disables the G-alpha

protein, and the DTaP *with the genetic defect totally disables it.

(The G-alpha protein needs to be functional for calcium channels to

work. When they don't, *everything* is screwed up.)The cis form gets

it working again. I don't think any other form of A would do it, but

I'll make a note and ask Megson the next time I see her.

Nell

[Guest guest]

>

> Just my opinion, but thinking that the palmitate is not a problem

for ALL kids.

I think it's kids with damaged guts that it's a particular problem

for, so that would be any kids who were big responders to enzymes.

> That does not mean there might be a subset of kids who do poorly or

worse on the palmitate form. But as to it causing ASD, again, not much

on chemistry, but it seems doubtful, to me.

Oh sure it's a subset, like all the causes are. Even Hg is a subset,

although the biggest one.

> The palmitate form of Vitamin A is in everything and almost

impossible to avoid unless you home school and you never take your

child anywhere or they never go to a friend/relative's house.

You said it. Since n reacts violently to it, he eats very little

processed food, never any low-fat dairy. Although now that the whole

family has been on a no-artificials/almost all whole food diet for

years now, when I eat processed food it tastes *awful and makes me

ill. It took some months of clean eating for that to happen.

> Btw, she did have the vision problems Megson talks about which were

helped/eliminated by the clo, but has received palmitate afterward and

has never had a reappearance of the vision problems.

Sorry for not remembering, but how's her gut? You're giving CLO and

palmitate? Do you think that's helping with viruses at all?

Nell

[Guest guest]

We use natural, cis A from Natural Factors. It's fish-derived, has

been screened for toxins, and for kids who can swallow capsules, the

softgels are really, really tiny. I still need to puncture them and

add them to CLO for my son, though.

Not seeing any improvement in visual stuff yet. We're at 20,000 iu

plus 2 tsp of CLO per day, so I may just have to keep on adding in

the A.

René

> >

> > Nell, , and others,

> >

> > Based on Andy's post (http://onibasu.com/archives/am/52509.html?

> > highlight=andrewhallcutler%20retinyl) on Vitamin A, we have been

> > using a mycellized retinyl palmitate at pretty high levels (about

> > 35,000 IU) daily for maintenance purposes. My son's visual stims

> > are virtually non-existent now.

>

> Yay! Is his gut in decent shape?

>

> We haven't done particularly well

> > with CLO in the past, but it has been a while since I tried it.

[Guest guest]

> Not seeing any improvement in visual stuff yet. We're at 20,000 iu

> plus 2 tsp of CLO per day, so I may just have to keep on adding in

> the A.

At least one of the really WOW Megson stories (I think in the posted

article) was of a kid on CLO for awhile and then she added bethanecol

(which has to be done under doc's superivision). She says in 1 out of

8 kids you can actually watch their vision come back. What bethanecol

is and how it works -- I haven't gotten that far yet, lol.

Nell

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Nell, , and others,

> >

> > Based on Andy's post (http://onibasu.com/archives/am/52509.html?

> > highlight=andrewhallcutler%20retinyl) on Vitamin A, we have been

> > using a mycellized retinyl palmitate at pretty high levels

(about

> > 35,000 IU) daily for maintenance purposes. My son's visual

stims

> > are virtually non-existent now.

>

> Yay! Is his gut in decent shape?

Relative to where we started, yes, but we constantly battle yeast

and I think we have a bacteria problem that I am just starting to

resolve now. This little guy has had only a handful of normal poops

since his DTaP (at 3 months - yes, that is when we started seeing

signs). From there we went to chronic constipation (Armour helped a

lot with this), and now we are all about managing yeast and bacteria

as I try to get him detoxed. I suspect that my kiddo was blessed

with one of those really bad guts...

>

> We haven't done particularly well

> > with CLO in the past, but it has been a while since I tried it.

>

> What kind and what happened?

Nordic naturals. Just seemed to make him spacey, grumpy, a bit

agitated. At one point when I was starting to really ramp up the A,

I got up to a couple of tsp. of CLO/day and didn't see anything

good. When I pulled it all, he got a little bit happier. It was

all pretty subtle.

>

> > Under Megson's approach, will the cis form offer additional

benefits

> > over the retinyl palmitate such that I should consider trying to

add

> > that back in on top of the RP?

>

> I don't know about doing them both at once, that would be a lot of

A.

Actually, it seems to me there is fairly little A in CLO compared to

what he apparently needs.

> But you could play with it. Do you have nightblindness?

No, but my Free T3 came in at the bottom of the reference range, I

have had low body temp since I can remember, and put myself on

Armour with some good results.

Did your son

> get the DTaP?

Yup, that was the beginning of this ordeal for us.

If I've got this right, the idea is that a genetic

> defect (which also causes nightblindness) half-disables the G-alpha

> protein, and the DTaP *with the genetic defect totally disables it.

> (The G-alpha protein needs to be functional for calcium channels to

> work. When they don't, *everything* is screwed up.)The cis form

gets

> it working again. I don't think any other form of A would do it,

but

> I'll make a note and ask Megson the next time I see her.

I would appreciate it if you would ask her. I will probably give

the CLO a go again in the next few weeks.

>

Anne

>

[Guest guest]

>

> At least one of the really WOW Megson stories (I think in the posted

> article) was of a kid on CLO for awhile and then she added bethanecol

> (which has to be done under doc's superivision). She says in 1 out of

> 8 kids you can actually watch their vision come back. What bethanecol

> is and how it works -- I haven't gotten that far yet, lol.

>

> Nell

>

I haven't gotten far down that path either, though I certainly plan

to. Although his eye stims are virtually gone, my son is certainly

still hypervisual. I was hoping that chelating him would get him

where we need to be in that respect, but perhaps there is more to

it....

Anne