Re: Nell/Viral Issues Surfaced - HELP - What To Do Now?

[Guest guest]

Nell,

Thanks for both posts. I am still at a loss on this one. Asher just

had a yeasty poop. AAARRRGGGHHH. He also has several bumps that

almost look like little pimples... one on his shoulder, one on his

back, and one on his leg. They are very out of the ordinary for him.

The first thing people notice with him is his skin. He has never had a

blemish other than a cut, scrape, mosquito bite or clown lips on his

body. Sometimes I just want to drop him off at Andy's doorstep with a

check and a promise to collect him once his body works well :-) Of

course, the check would bounce...lol.

One other thing that seems to be at issue and has been for a while is

that apparently his penis hurts. I ran him on some D-Mannose/Cranactin

and that didn't seem to do it. I have also heard that oxalate issues

seem to cause this, but I have been reluctant to go LOD. I was hoping

that it was a urinary tract infection and that the uva ursi would work

here too. Another AAARRRGGGHHH.

I am not going to go the Virastop route right now, and am hesitant to

put the uva ursi back in or up the OLE because his appetite since I

last posted has gone downhill. He has eaten all of 1 raw goat's milk

cheese stick and 3 ounces of smoothie today. I am doing what I can to

keep him drinking, including bribing him. Any further thoughts?

Anne

> >

> > Yikes. After reading back through some other posts, it occured to

me

> > that maybe what we were seeing was die-off reaction. It is pretty

> > clear we had a pretty bad bacterial infection. Does die off happen

> > with bacteria as well as with yeast?

>

> Anne,

> Yes, it did here. And uva ursi worked well too. I was thinking after I

> hit send to my other answer that Dana was just talking about Virastop

> working on bacteria too, so maybe there's something going on there.

> (not my intentional vagueness, lol)

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

>Asher just

> had a yeasty poop. AAARRRGGGHHH. He also has several bumps that

> almost look like little pimples... one on his shoulder, one on his

> back, and one on his leg.

Oh yes, n has had them all over his arms off and on for ages.

They seem to come and go in a kind of viral cycle? The first Virastop

treatment he did, they blossomed and then went away. But came back. I

don't really know whether to tell you it's a good sign or not -- but I

think when Asher gets through this bumpy spot he's going to be better.

> One other thing that seems to be at issue and has been for a while is

> that apparently his penis hurts. I ran him on some D-Mannose/Cranactin

> and that didn't seem to do it. I have also heard that oxalate issues

> seem to cause this, but I have been reluctant to go LOD.

When I heard Owens speak at Autism One I was ready to start LOD

that minute. Some very good reports from people doing that diet,

fixing problems that sounded oh so familiar (like yeast that will.

not. go. away). I did get the recommended probiotic and start the

citrates at meals, but stalled out there. So allow me to encourage you

to start! I'm right behind you, really!

I am doing what I can to

> keep him drinking, including bribing him. Any further thoughts?

I can't wait to hear how he's doping when the fever goes down. Sorry

you're having to suffer thrugh another regression, but I'm sure he'll

be back soon.

Nell

[Guest guest]

I

> don't really know whether to tell you it's a good sign or not --

but I

> think when Asher gets through this bumpy spot he's going to be

better.

>

He is doing much better, though not better than just before the

fever.

>

> When I heard Owens speak at Autism One I was ready to start

LOD

> that minute. Some very good reports from people doing that diet,

> fixing problems that sounded oh so familiar (like yeast that will.

> not. go. away). I did get the recommended probiotic and start the

> citrates at meals, but stalled out there. So allow me to encourage

you

> to start! I'm right behind you, really!

I hate the diet part of all this, really. Coming from the camp of

texture aversion, I am still thrilled that Asher eats real food, and

real food only. I do think that LOD might be good for him in the

short term and have implemented some of their stuff around here -

calcium, VSL, etc., but hate to take out some of the stuff he eats.

That said, he seems to almost be self-limiting away from his high

oxalate foods these days. Maybe I will take the plunge.

>

> I am doing what I can to

> > keep him drinking, including bribing him. Any further thoughts?

>

> I can't wait to hear how he's doping when the fever goes down.

Sorry

> you're having to suffer thrugh another regression, but I'm sure

he'll

> be back soon.

I think he is reasonably back. I gave him some charcoal, then later

some Sambucol, then later some probiotics. We'll see where we end

up tomorrow. I hate this stuff.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

> I hate the diet part of all this, really. Coming from the camp of

> texture aversion, I am still thrilled that Asher eats real food, and

> real food only.

Yes. If n ever ate more than 5 foods at once I think I would

explode from happiness.

> I do think that LOD might be good for him in the

> short term and have implemented some of their stuff around here -

> calcium, VSL, etc., but hate to take out some of the stuff he eats.

Did you notice any difference with those changes? One thing I meant to

say was that once I got the LOD food list I saw there was no way I

could rally enough enthusiasm to try it during the summer, not when so

much wonderful food would be forbidden. I couldn't go without

homegrown tomatoes, garlic, and parsley. And blueberries! So I was

thinking maybe I would give it a 2-3 week trial in the fall when the

garden is over.

> I think he is reasonably back.

Good. Let us know how tomorrow goes.

Nell

[Guest guest]

About the LOD diet, I found this in my all time favorite nutrition book, " Lets

Get Healthy " by Adele . Ms. worked with Bernard Rimland to come up

with the first ever attempt at correcting the nutrional difficulties experienced

by ASD kids, B6. This passage was written about calcium-oxalate kidney stones,

but would apply.

" The amino acid glycine (second most prevalent amino acid found in food),

improperly utilized when B6 is undersupplied, changes into oxalic acid, which

forms stones. Radioactively labeled glycine, given to stone formers, can be

recovered as oxalic acid; in healthy persons it can be found only in body

protein. When experimental animals are deficient in B6, the more glycine given

them, the greater is the urinary excretion of oxalic acid, this excretion

DECREASES immediately if the vitamin is given with glycine.

Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding dozens of excellent

fruits and vegetables because they contain some oxalic acid. Unfortunately,

oxalate stones are still formed even when no oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained

in the diet. If fruits and vegetables are restricted, more proteins are

eaten;therefore, the need for B6 and the intake of flycine both increase while

the magnesium intake decreases; thus the state is set for more oxalic acid to

form and thus, more stones.

Stone formers usually have an alakaline urine that contains bacteria and much

ammonia. "

Before I would exclude fruits and vegetables, I would try adding more B6, in the

form of P5P, preferably. There is a marker on the hair test for adequate B6, but

it escapes me at the moment, although I know ours did meet it, not about oxalic

acid, but supplementing did bring about some nice improvements awhile ago.

[ ] Re: Nell/Viral Issues Surfaced - HELP - What To Do

Now?

> I hate the diet part of all this, really. Coming from the camp of

> texture aversion, I am still thrilled that Asher eats real food, and

> real food only.

Yes. If n ever ate more than 5 foods at once I think I would

explode from happiness.

> I do think that LOD might be good for him in the

> short term and have implemented some of their stuff around here -

> calcium, VSL, etc., but hate to take out some of the stuff he eats.

Did you notice any difference with those changes? One thing I meant to

say was that once I got the LOD food list I saw there was no way I

could rally enough enthusiasm to try it during the summer, not when so

much wonderful food would be forbidden. I couldn't go without

homegrown tomatoes, garlic, and parsley. And blueberries! So I was

thinking maybe I would give it a 2-3 week trial in the fall when the

garden is over.

> I think he is reasonably back.

Good. Let us know how tomorrow goes.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Nell,

Thanks for your help this weekend. Asher is pretty much fine now.

As for the LOD, I like 's suggestion about B6. If I remember

correctly, you said that n doesn't tolerate B6. Could this be

related to oxalate dumping? I haven't chased this down enough to

know what the signs are, so that might not have any applicability,

but I am not keen on removing foods. I already made that mistake

with milk, which we have now reintroduced.

Anne

>

> > I hate the diet part of all this, really. Coming from the camp

of

> > texture aversion, I am still thrilled that Asher eats real food,

and

> > real food only.

>

> Yes. If n ever ate more than 5 foods at once I think I would

> explode from happiness.

>

> > I do think that LOD might be good for him in the

> > short term and have implemented some of their stuff around here -

> > calcium, VSL, etc., but hate to take out some of the stuff he

eats.

>

> Did you notice any difference with those changes? One thing I

meant to

> say was that once I got the LOD food list I saw there was no way I

> could rally enough enthusiasm to try it during the summer, not

when so

> much wonderful food would be forbidden. I couldn't go without

> homegrown tomatoes, garlic, and parsley. And blueberries! So I was

> thinking maybe I would give it a 2-3 week trial in the fall when

the

> garden is over.

>

>

> > I think he is reasonably back.

>

> Good. Let us know how tomorrow goes.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

> Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding dozens

of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some oxalic

acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when no

oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when I put

n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most parents who

start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials might be

causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who can eat

apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad thing

for a child to eat?

But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10 minutes

after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's the

organic apple.

Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can still

manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits and

vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!) and

people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a shot, IMO.

What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to tolerate

supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has a bad

reaction. Been like that for years now.

Nell

[Guest guest]

I agree, if diets are helpful, I would say go for them. Never did anything here

but make her worse, so not a personal fan. Be careful, as my explanation about

oxalates, B6 and reducing magnesium could be what was responsible for one

child's huge constipation problems on the LOD diet, it reduces magnesium, might,

otoh, be good for kids who tend toward more loose stools.

As for the B6, can only tell you it was not tolerated here, except in RDA

amounts before chelation. We didn't introduce the P5P until we had chelated for

about 9 months, tolerated very well. Now, again the B6 can be given now in any

amounts w/o problems. But the answer to that question could be illuminating as

to some problems.

What happens when you give it to him? I'll keep my eyes open, I do know that B6

is somehow involved in methylation chemistry, maybe makes him overmethylated?

[ ] Re: Nell/Viral Issues Surfaced - HELP - What To Do

Now?

> Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding dozens

of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some oxalic

acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when no

oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when I put

n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most parents who

start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials might be

causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who can eat

apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad thing

for a child to eat?

But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10 minutes

after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's the

organic apple.

Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can still

manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits and

vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!) and

people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a shot, IMO.

What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to tolerate

supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has a bad

reaction. Been like that for years now.

Nell

[Guest guest]

I agree generally, but certain parts of the LOD, as I understand it

(which, for the record is not well at all) is that Vitamin C goes

out the door too. Wasn't liking that part much.

Anne

>

> > Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding

dozens

> of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some oxalic

> acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when no

> oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

>

> My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when I put

> n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most parents

who

> start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials might

be

> causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who can

eat

> apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad thing

> for a child to eat?

>

> But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

> re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10 minutes

> after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's the

> organic apple.

>

> Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can still

> manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits and

> vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!) and

> people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a shot,

IMO.

>

> What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to tolerate

> supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has a bad

> reaction. Been like that for years now.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

Isaac never tolerated Vit C in any form so this was another reason

for why I eventually gave in and tried the diet.

> >

> > > Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding

> dozens

> > of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some

oxalic

> > acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when no

> > oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

> >

> > My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when I

put

> > n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most

parents

> who

> > start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials

might

> be

> > causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who

can

> eat

> > apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad

thing

> > for a child to eat?

> >

> > But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

> > re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10

minutes

> > after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's the

> > organic apple.

> >

> > Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can still

> > manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits and

> > vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!)

and

> > people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a

shot,

> IMO.

> >

> > What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to

tolerate

> > supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has a

bad

> > reaction. Been like that for years now.

> >

> > Nell

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> If I remember

> correctly, you said that n doesn't tolerate B6. Could this be

> related to oxalate dumping? I haven't chased this down enough to

> know what the signs are, so that might not have any applicability,

> but I am not keen on removing foods.

Just posted about this -- I'm going to try to read up and see what I

can figure out...

Nell

[Guest guest]

I forget, has the diet worked for your kid(s)?

Anne

> > >

> > > > Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding

> > dozens

> > > of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some

> oxalic

> > > acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when

no

> > > oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

> > >

> > > My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when

I

> put

> > > n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most

> parents

> > who

> > > start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials

> might

> > be

> > > causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who

> can

> > eat

> > > apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad

> thing

> > > for a child to eat?

> > >

> > > But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

> > > re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10

> minutes

> > > after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's

the

> > > organic apple.

> > >

> > > Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can

still

> > > manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits

and

> > > vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!)

> and

> > > people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a

> shot,

> > IMO.

> > >

> > > What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to

> tolerate

> > > supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has

a

> bad

> > > reaction. Been like that for years now.

> > >

> > > Nell

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, if no C, might be another reason for the constipation. Not to mention that

exclusionary diets are inconvenient, for sure and to me, it is worth figuring

out what is the underlying cause of the problem and correcting that. But, otoh,

if I could not figure out the underlying problem and the exclusionary diet made

them better, caused less suffering, I would, reluctantly do the diet.

Just not a fan of removing good food, we worked hard to get her to eat a nice

variety of fruits and vegetables.

[ ] Re: Nell/Viral Issues Surfaced - HELP - What To Do

Now?

I agree generally, but certain parts of the LOD, as I understand it

(which, for the record is not well at all) is that Vitamin C goes

out the door too. Wasn't liking that part much.

Anne

>

> > Individuals who have stones are often given diets excluding

dozens

> of excellent fruits and vegetables because they contain some oxalic

> acid. Unfortunately, oxalate stones are still formed even when no

> oxalic acid whatsoever is obtained in the diet.

>

> My attitude towards exclusionary diets took a giant turn when I put

> n on Feingold, totally out of desperation. Like most parents

who

> start that diet, I was convinced that while the artificials might

be

> causing problems, *my child certainly will be among those who can

eat

> apples and cherries! How in the world could an APPLE be a bad thing

> for a child to eat?

>

> But we followed the diet strictly for 6 weeks, and when I

> re-introduced apples, n went crazy. Totally beserk, 10 minutes

> after eating an apple. Tried it twice to make sure, yep, it's the

> organic apple.

>

> Since then I'm open to whatever -- if it looks like you can still

> manage to get enough good food (only restricting *some fruits and

> vegetables...and it's not like n eats vegetables anyway!) and

> people are seeing great responses with it, then it's worth a shot,

IMO.

>

> What I'd like to know is, why is n still not able to tolerate

> supped B6 in any form? A tiny bit, P5P or regular, and he has a bad

> reaction. Been like that for years now.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

>

Not to mention that exclusionary diets are inconvenient, for sure and

to me, it is worth figuring out what is the underlying cause of the

problem and correcting that.

Oh for sure that's the goal. But usually if there's something not

being tolerated it makes the person much more comfortable to exclude

it while the figuring is being done along with whatever work to get

the problem fixed. n was able to eat apples and other high

salicylate/phenol whole foods after about 15 rounds of chelation, but

I suspect there are other intolerances that I should be addressing but

haven't gotten around to pinpointing. Unfortunately some of the work

that fixes these intolerances is long-term.

Nell