Is 300mg oral DMSA the right amount for a challenge?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/24/2006 10:34:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rima.regas@... writes:

We're about to do a heavy-metals urine challenge. Our doc said to give

300mg. My daughter weighs 105 lbs. Does this sound right?

I wonder where they come up with these numbers. My 49 lbs son was prescribed

220mg.

Challenge tests are not safe and do no provide reliable information. Go to

the archives and search challenge tests.

[Guest guest]

We're about to do a heavy-metals urine challenge. Our doc said to give

300mg. My daughter weighs 105 lbs. Does this sound right?

Thanks!

--

Rima Regas

[Guest guest]

Rima,

Go to http://www.onibasu.com and type in challenge tests and read why they are

never considered safe or even informative.

[ ] Is 300mg oral DMSA the right amount for a challenge?

We're about to do a heavy-metals urine challenge. Our doc said to give

300mg. My daughter weighs 105 lbs. Does this sound right?

Thanks!

--

Rima Regas

[Guest guest]

Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is on

a chelation round.

Challenge testing frees up metals with no more chelator to absorb

it, this causes repoisoning as the metals settle into other places

in the body. This type of testing is also inconclusive and does not

prove or show metal body load. And it can make them sicker.

My 100 pound child only takes 12.5 mg on a round.

>

>

>

> In a message dated 9/24/2006 10:34:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> rima.regas@... writes:

>

> We're about to do a heavy-metals urine challenge. Our doc said to

give

> 300mg. My daughter weighs 105 lbs. Does this sound right?

>

> I wonder where they come up with these numbers. My 49 lbs son was

prescribed

> 220mg.

>

> Challenge tests are not safe and do no provide reliable

information. Go to

> the archives and search challenge tests.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

We went ahead and did the challenge. She's doing fine. Actually, just like a

year ago, she does phenomenally during the " on " days. This was also a good

opportunity for us to test whether she will tolerate VRP brand of DMSA. Leah

has a lot of extreme intolerances, including things that are generally seen

as inert or generally tolerated. Stearic acid, corn, vegetable cellulose and

a bunch of other commonly used ingredients in supplements and medications

are what stopped us dead in our tracks almost a year ago.

I'm happy to say that she tolerated the VRP DMSA, so at least, we can go

ahead and go back on our chelation schedule. Doctor wants me to give her

400mg per day (in 100mg doses), three days on, 11 days off.

We spent most of last year trying to find supplements that she can tolerate.

We tried transdermal preparations as well and those turned out to be worse

than oral (she's also allergic to coconut and palm). Unfortunately, even the

supplements we settled on aren't clean enough and one of their side-effects

is that she needs cleanouts. Because of this, we will chelate without

supplementing on the " on " days. Has anyone here had to do this?

Thanks for your concern and your help. I really appreciate it.

--

Rima Regas

Mom to Leah, age 8 (AS, DSI and APD)

http://www.sensoryintegrationhelp.com

On 9/25/06, Jan <paxlforme@...> wrote:

>

> Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

> dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

> dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

> If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is on

> a chelation round.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

> > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

> > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

> > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is on

> > a chelation round.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are asking for our help and experience and in all good intention

most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's and

concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or in a

not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

wrong way.

Every one receives the message differently and each may need a

prompting before they may accept the info provided. With me I needed

the ole fashion Andy Cutler way to accept what I had been told before

I would accept improper methods about proper chelation doses as well

as the reasons behind unnecessary High Dose challenge tests.

I am sure if you continue to post as I hope you do, you will pretty

much hear the same line of thinking that may help you decide on a

safe chelation protocol.

Thanks for understanding and Hope this may be helpful to guide into

an informed choice.

Please see my reply

> >

> > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

> > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

> > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

> > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is

on

> > a chelation round.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Before we stopped chelating a year ago, when she started having allergic

reactions, we were using Andy's protocol, which at that time, was the same

as the doctor's with respect to dosage. We just divvied up the dosage the

doc gave us into 4 hour doses.

Now, the dosage he wants us to use is larger and I was wondering about that.

Also, because the supplements she can take without a severe reaction (hives

and/or anaphylaxis) do cause occasional bowel obstruction, we feel we have

no choice but to chelate without supplementing during the " on " days in order

to be sure that there is no redistribution. I am curious to know whether

others here have done this, and how they've managed to keep an eye on

mineral levels. We just did an RBC minerals test and I am wondering how

often we should run that in the future. Are there other tests that would be

helpful in determining mineral levels?

I have no problem doing this at 4-hour intervals again. The question is

whether 400mg/day, three days on, 11 days off, is what's needed. She's 106

lbs.

We've done challenges 3 times now. She tolerated them just fine each time,

with no issues either during or well after.

Thanks for your input.

Rima Regas

On 9/26/06, lindajaytee <lindajaytee@...> wrote:

>

>

> > >

> > > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

> > > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

> > > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

> > > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is on

> > > a chelation round.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kenny,

I am not turned off at all. I appreciate all points of view, and I know

everyone posts here out of a genuine desire to help.

The problem with supplementation at the same time as chelation is that one

of the side-effects of my daughter's intolerances is impaction. When

completely off of supplements, she has no " poop " issues. She does as soon as

we go back on. Even with very large doses of mag citrate, things are still

uneven. I do not want to risk redistribution of metals. We took this past

year off involuntarily and finally found basic supplements we can use, but

they still have some degree of problems with the ingredients.

Thank you all, for your help.

Rima Regas

On 9/26/06, kenny V <KEN@...> wrote:

>

> You are asking for our help and experience and in all good intention

> most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's and

> concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or in a

> not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> wrong way.

>

[Guest guest]

Rima,

I've heard other parents say their kids do better without

supplements on the 'on' days. I would think the benefit of regular

poops while chelating is worth the risk of skipping 3 days of

vitamins and minerals. There have been DMSA/ALA rounds where I

forget to give my son minerals and he seems the same as the

supplemented days.

Pam

> >

> > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

intention

> > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's

and

> > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or

in a

> > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> > wrong way.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much, Pam!

Rima

On 9/26/06, noaholiviaian <phaselow@...> wrote:

>

> Rima,

>

> I've heard other parents say their kids do better without

> supplements on the 'on' days. I would think the benefit of regular

> poops while chelating is worth the risk of skipping 3 days of

> vitamins and minerals. There have been DMSA/ALA rounds where I

> forget to give my son minerals and he seems the same as the

> supplemented days.

>

> Pam

>

>

> > >

> > > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

> intention

> > > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> > > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's

> and

> > > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or

> in a

> > > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> > > wrong way.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

We have not been chelating for very long. We ahve swapped to low frequent

dosing after a slight regression on the higher dosing just after round 9. Can I

just ask those with more experience - Why do some doctors prescribe such big

doses ? Also, why do some say stop mins on the on days and other say carry on ?

Jane

Re: [ ] Re: Is 300mg oral DMSA the right amount for a

challenge?

Hi ,

Before we stopped chelating a year ago, when she started having allergic

reactions, we were using Andy's protocol, which at that time, was the same

as the doctor's with respect to dosage. We just divvied up the dosage the

doc gave us into 4 hour doses.

Now, the dosage he wants us to use is larger and I was wondering about that.

Also, because the supplements she can take without a severe reaction (hives

and/or anaphylaxis) do cause occasional bowel obstruction, we feel we have

no choice but to chelate without supplementing during the " on " days in order

to be sure that there is no redistribution. I am curious to know whether

others here have done this, and how they've managed to keep an eye on

mineral levels. We just did an RBC minerals test and I am wondering how

often we should run that in the future. Are there other tests that would be

helpful in determining mineral levels?

I have no problem doing this at 4-hour intervals again. The question is

whether 400mg/day, three days on, 11 days off, is what's needed. She's 106

lbs.

We've done challenges 3 times now. She tolerated them just fine each time,

with no issues either during or well after.

Thanks for your input.

Rima Regas

On 9/26/06, lindajaytee <lindajaytee@...> wrote:

>

>

> > >

> > > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The proper

> > > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a single

> > > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three days.

> > > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the child is on

> > > a chelation round.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Starting to feel like a broken record on this one, but have you had

your daughter's thyroid tested? If not, next time she gets stuck,

you might try to get her Free T3, Free T4 and TSH levels. The

thyroid has an enormous amount to do with pooping. Low thyroid is

also detrimetal to brain development, according to Andy. If you do

get these levels, keep in mind that most labs use the wrong

reference ranges, which make it seem as though a child is fine when

in fact s/he isn't.

Anne

> >

> > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

intention

> > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's

and

> > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or

in a

> > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> > wrong way.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> We have not been chelating for very long. We ahve swapped to low

frequent dosing after a slight regression on the higher dosing just

after round 9.

Nice to hear that you have adjusted, your rounds should go much.

Smoother I honestly feel you will be well pleased with rounds that

will follow.

Can I just ask those with more experience - Why do some doctors

prescribe such big doses ? Also, why do some say stop mins on the

on days and other say carry on ?

>

> Jane

Simply For one… Cuz they don't know any better.

Actually there are many reasons. Most doctors do not have enough

open communication with their parents and monitor these things on a

daily basis. That is why speaking with parents who have shared a

pool or results can give you a better idea of what may be going on

considering we are the ones in the trenches daily doing this stuff.

Many doctors learn what they learn and do not continue to

study any further, research nor do they have the time to read

parental reports. They listen to their colleges look what they may

be doing but ultimately practice medicine in a similar fashion.

This is not all but in " most " cases it is the norm.

" Most " and I respectively mean most do not understand chelation and

its principles, as it is a " process " of removing

Heavy metals they do not dose on a basic understanding of the

chelator's chemical properties (That would be use a chelator based

on its half-life). Also they are stuck on the notion that more

chelator means more pull.

And because of this the worst part, some but not all believe that A

hell period know as the " horns and tail period " is the norm.

Last but not least

Doctors also have the same issues that all humans have and it is

called " pride " . And when that kicks in you will rarely see change

in the way they have learned something. Nor do they want to admit

when they may be challenged in their inaccuracy as well as their

guidance to be found inconsistent. Also what has happened and

continues to happen in our history is the pattern in the way we

have learned to practice medicine. Often times it is dictated and

effected by mere convenience. Many doctors follow procedures that

they are accustomed to and rarely change their methods because of

their comfort level as well as familiarity. I had just read the

other day that in one country the rate of C- section child birth was

somewhere in the area of 80 %. No medical reason whatsoever And

again this was done out of familiarly as well as what they became

accustomed to. We don't see that as much in this country but im

sure it takes place. If not labor I am sure many other surgical

procedures, but that is another topic altogether .Two similar

examples I could think of is induced labor. And one prime example is

what had happened to my sister when she had two children under

military personnel. Both times for no reason she was given a C-

section. And the second time she was botched up pretty bad. She had

many complications including infections. But thank God she and the

children are healthy today.

Sorry to get off topic but I think it relates to the original

Question

as always My best

Kenny v

[Guest guest]

Doctors are only as good as their training. Most of them do not have

much chemistry knowledge or chelation training. As an example: to

become a DAN! doctor all that is needed are some seminars. So to sum

it up, some docs don't know what they are doing.

Some beleive that a high dose will work faster, and are honestly not

aware of the danger in it, or that redistribution occurs. Some are

not aware of the half life of chelators in the body. Much knowledge

required to administer medication is not taught, this is more

chemistry. So they go with standard doses recomended by

manufacturers. As we know one size does not fit all with

medications. In essence, doctors mean well, but are just not trained

extensively in chelation therapy of the uses of the chelators.

As for the minerals, some do not realize that those toxic in heavy

metals are also deficient in minerals before any chelation, and thus

need constant minerals. The body prefers minerals for function, they

are essential, however, if those minerals are not available to the

body, it accepts generics...ie heavy metals. For example the body

will absorb and use lead in place of calcium. For every mineral

there is a toxic substitute. To minimize the body absorbing anymore

toxic metals, you need to supply consistent minerals. This goes back

to chemistry training...not to mention you want minerals to take up

place where the toxic metals came out of during chelation.

Also, remember...there are doctors who were A students, and there

were those who were D students. Both still passed and graduated.

What of the doc who skipped chemistry and got a D? Scary thought but

true...docs are not " All Knowing " , after all they do recomend the

vaccines that get some of us into this boat in the first place.

So simply...lack of knowing better.

> > > >

> > > > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The

proper

> > > > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a

single

> > > > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three

days.

> > > > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the

child is on

> > > > a chelation round.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

That was within normal range. I can ask to redo that testing next time. Do

you have a preferred lab?

Thanks!

Rima

On 9/26/06, anneecbrynn <anneecbrynn@...> wrote:

>

> Starting to feel like a broken record on this one, but have you had

> your daughter's thyroid tested? If not, next time she gets stuck,

> you might try to get her Free T3, Free T4 and TSH levels. The

> thyroid has an enormous amount to do with pooping. Low thyroid is

> also detrimetal to brain development, according to Andy. If you do

> get these levels, keep in mind that most labs use the wrong

> reference ranges, which make it seem as though a child is fine when

> in fact s/he isn't.

>

> Anne

>

>

> > >

> > > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

> intention

> > > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> > > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's

> and

> > > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or

> in a

> > > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> > > wrong way.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Rima,

Just a few thoughts on the supplement problem. Many adults on the

frequent low dose group have trouble with supplements and can't

tolerate them. This is common for mercury toxic people especially in

the beginning of chelation. Many are using just a multvite/mineral,

if you can find one that works for her. Others are using excellent

nutrition to get the vitamins/minerals they need. This may be

sufficient for a few rounds then see if any supplements are

tolerated yet. Also, digestive enzymes are key to tolerating things

too. Maybe for her you could try juicing, this is a high nutrient

addition to a healthy diet.

Is it mainly that she is not having bowel movements during chelation

and this is resulting in impaction?

If so, we use senna on a round to make sure that no bowel movements

are missed. It is common for constipation to occur on a round, but

you want to avoid it at all costs. Just some thoughts that might

help. But many do chelate without the supps at first. Just eat

healthy!

> >

> > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

intention

> > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest way

> > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same Q's

and

> > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt way or

in a

> > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it the

> > wrong way.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually you can become a dan! dr after attending just ONE dan! conference.

[ ] Re: Is 300mg oral DMSA the right amount for a

challenge?

Doctors are only as good as their training. Most of them do not have

much chemistry knowledge or chelation training. As an example: to

become a DAN! doctor all that is needed are some seminars. So to sum

it up, some docs don't know what they are doing.

Some beleive that a high dose will work faster, and are honestly not

aware of the danger in it, or that redistribution occurs. Some are

not aware of the half life of chelators in the body. Much knowledge

required to administer medication is not taught, this is more

chemistry. So they go with standard doses recomended by

manufacturers. As we know one size does not fit all with

medications. In essence, doctors mean well, but are just not trained

extensively in chelation therapy of the uses of the chelators.

As for the minerals, some do not realize that those toxic in heavy

metals are also deficient in minerals before any chelation, and thus

need constant minerals. The body prefers minerals for function, they

are essential, however, if those minerals are not available to the

body, it accepts generics...ie heavy metals. For example the body

will absorb and use lead in place of calcium. For every mineral

there is a toxic substitute. To minimize the body absorbing anymore

toxic metals, you need to supply consistent minerals. This goes back

to chemistry training...not to mention you want minerals to take up

place where the toxic metals came out of during chelation.

Also, remember...there are doctors who were A students, and there

were those who were D students. Both still passed and graduated.

What of the doc who skipped chemistry and got a D? Scary thought but

true...docs are not " All Knowing " , after all they do recomend the

vaccines that get some of us into this boat in the first place.

So simply...lack of knowing better.

> > > >

> > > > Lordy! Please do not give any child that much dmsa. The

proper

> > > > dosing is 1/8mg per pound. And it should not be given as a

single

> > > > dose but used in a four hour dosing protocol over three

days.

> > > > If they want a urine metals then collect urine while the

child is on

> > > > a chelation round.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

If you give me the lab results and age at the time of testing, I

will check it against my information to see if the lab gave you the

correct range, etc. I do our thyroid testing through our local

hospital lab, but I check their results against labcorp's pediatric

reference ranges.

Anne

> > > >

> > > > You are asking for our help and experience and in all good

> > intention

> > > > most of us here would love to share it in the best/ honest

way

> > > > without turning you off. Most people here have had the same

Q's

> > and

> > > > concerns as you have and have been told either in a blunt

way or

> > in a

> > > > not so much (IMO or this is what happened to us way)

> > > > So id like to share w/ IMO and hopefully you may not take it

the

> > > > wrong way.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >