Re: Miraculous Big Gains-Child #1

[Guest guest]

Wooohoooo! It is never too late to chelate :-). Congratulations

and Son #1. Keep up the great work.

Anita

>

> Miracle like Big Gains! Update on child #1

>

>

>

> Age 17

>

> Weight 152

>

>

>

> Symptom gain-OCD

>

> Symptom gain-Leaving the house

>

> Symptom gain-miraculous seemingly overnight increase in life skills

>

> Gain-Acting NT!!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Axe <badaboom@...> wrote: Miracle like Big Gains! Update on child

#1

Age 17

Weight 152

Symptom gain-OCD

Symptom gain-Leaving the house

Symptom gain-miraculous seemingly overnight increase in life skills

Gain-Acting NT!!!

Friday-Child #1 left the house for a social event, one of the few in years. He

went to his first LAN party. I chaperoned. He wore regular jeans instead of

pajama pants. He showered and rinsed his mouth. He asked to have the things to

clean his nails out, which was a skill that wasn't on the calendar to learn

until June 5th. He cleaned his nails out himself.

His friend and him, win 1st place in Halo at the tournament. They each won $60.

They don't open doors or help me to the car with all of the heavy t.v.'s and

equipment though, completely " lost " on that. His friend has add.

LAN party lasts from Fri at 5 pm to Sat am at 6 am. We get home, rest, and on

Sunday he wants to go to his best friends graduation, where before he thought he

would be too sick to do both (he never goes out back to back, usually at least 2

mo in between outings).

We can't believe it. The whole family gets ready.

He washes his hair again, and wears normal clothes. He decides he wants to also

go to his friends first gig after the graduation (same friend graduating and

having his first gig). We are astounded. I pack him a bag, and his Dad and I

put his computer in the car because at the spur of the moment, they decide that

after the gig they all want to go to another friends house and hang out after

the gig(hasn't ever done before-hanging out is ALWAYS at our house). We are

speechless and overcome with joy.

He goes through the graduation. His friends are amazed and appreciative that #1

he is there and #2 he washed his hair and #3 he is in normal clothes.

I take pics!! Later that afternoon I take him to the gig, where it is noisy, a

loud rock band at a club. He does fine with the noise! I take pics!!

After the gig, he wants to be taken to his friends to spend a few days (he's

never done). I leave his pills. He stays for two days.

On Sun, his other friend, the neighbor boy across the street, Father passes

away. His friend comes over to tell us that he passed away, but just hangs out

and doesn't tell us until Monday because he doesn't know how to tell us. Monday

afternoon, he tells me after I ask how his Dad is doing, so I take this friend

over to where child #1 is (40 min drive across town), because this is the first

chance he has to go somewhere since taking care of his Dad around the clock for

years. I make arrangements to pick them up the next day afternoon to take them

to the viewing & funeral. Sad, but it was a very long illness, and the family

is mostly relieved that the suffering is over. I am sad, and I grieve the loss

of his father who was a friend. I am also really excited and happy about the

gains happening with child #1.

Child #1 says a day before " why would I go to the funeral when I didn't know his

Dad very well? " I say " to support your friend " . He says " oh " . He goes to the

viewing, in clean clothes again.the next day..in clean clothes again he goes to

the funeral and on the way he cleans out his fingernails unprompted in the car.

I start a round of chelation. He wants to go back over to his friends house way

across town during chelation. Child #1 bathes again. I take him over and

explain his pills. I already have it organized in the pill minder and the

instructions written out. He and his friends promise to give him his pills on

time (they are all 18 and 19). Another one of his friends is going to go to

college to become a EMT, he is the one I explain all of the pills to. He is

very confident that he can do it, and I feel safe leaving him. All of the guys

(4 to six) are hanging out at the friends house across town and I call them

every 3 hours to make sure, and so far, they are doing really well.

Child #1 wants to stay at his friends house and hang out for a week or two.

While they were there he went to Applebees (I have his enzymes for meals in

little ziplock snack bags). He doesn't go to restaurants usually. Totally new

everything.

Two of the things motivating him to go to a friends at home. Child #1's siblings

have really upped the annoying factor towards him. The 13 year old sister is

being unbearable. She is really acting out, touching his stuff, going in his

room and stealing his things while he sleeps, or when he goes to the

bathroom...pestering and annoying. I can't prove it, but I think she took his

wallet with his spending money for food, and for a while he wouldn't have been

able to go back to his friends, but I went and got some money off of my credit

card so he could go and have money to eat. She is undermining everything! I

don't know if this is typical.

A wallmart is being built closeby our house, and they are asphalting the parking

lot. The whole town stinks. This is a big motivation to go to his friends,

because our town stinks and he has chemical sensitivity also.

So I get to his friends with the both of them for the second time and He is

opening doors for people, and helping in with the stuff (this isn't even on my

list for the year of life skills!!!!).

His friends are providing peer pressure, by goading him to set up his own

computer, asking him if he has ever done it, giving him crap about only ever

knowing anything other about computers but how to press " on " and " off " . He is

responding to their support/joking with gains, gains, gains.

He is over there with his friends going through chelation. One of the boys moms

is a nurse, and she is next door. I told them what to watch for.

I feel so happy. Is this unbelieveable for round 15????? I am like what did I

do?? Last week I upped copper from 54mg twice a day to 4x a day. This week I

upped the copper from 4x to 5x. I know it's high on the copper.I just decided to

try it after reading some study posted on mothering.com. I think the GSE from

Enzymatic therapy bound with phospydytlycholine has really helped too.he has

taken it all month.

Is this a normal gain for one week? I keep telling myself this might not last,

he could regress again before this is over, so kind of prepare for it.

[Guest guest]

, this is great, great news. But can this possibly be right:

" Last week I upped copper from 54mg twice a day to 4x a day. This

week I upped the copper from 4x to 5x. I know it's high on the

copper.I just decided to try it after reading some study posted on

mothering.com "

54 mg five times a day? Of copper?? Copper can be lethal at doses of

3.5 grams. The most that is recommeded for daily adult intake is

usually 3 mg. Can you provide the url for this article, please?

Thanks

René

[Guest guest]

Rene

I am concerned that it was the high copper that gave us these gains

too...and I am worried about it if this is his cure...because I don't

know how long we can continue giving this much copper...

It is from the pfieffer center protocol...only I didn't pay the 20

bucks for it, I got the info off this site

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mtpromotion.htm

I read it off a link from mothering dot com, around page 8 or ten of a

thread called " what causes autism " and saw that I was already giving

several of the things on their protocol, so I thought maybe I would

add a few more of their things slowly. I was taken back, too by the

copper they recommended 1mg per lb of body weight plus 20 mg. He was

already taking 108 a day per andy's protocol. He is 152 lbs. one week

I upped copper to 3x , and the next week to 4x. 4x is 216 mg if each

one is 54mg. How does mgs equal to grams? What should I watch out for

(and next, he isn't even home...he is STILL out doing NT things with

his friends... Did I tell you that he is 17 and this is the first

time he has ever spent the night?

I muscle tested my son, (do you know what that is?) which confirmed to

me for him to give him 4 54mg copper supplements per day. The

pfeiffer method would be 170mg, so it is not too much over what they

recommend. Please tell me this dose isn't deadly, because it is

working. This week I gave him 5 coppers at 54 mg each per day. This

week I will do more research to see if this is ok, but i got this #

from muscle testing...I muscle test for quanity of each pill every

week before I put them in the weekly pill minder.

I am going to read the above link again and see what else to add. I

can let everyone know exactly what my son is taking too if that will

help us figure out how this happened.

>

> , this is great, great news. But can this possibly be right:

>

> " Last week I upped copper from 54mg twice a day to 4x a day. This

> week I upped the copper from 4x to 5x. I know it's high on the

> copper.I just decided to try it after reading some study posted on

> mothering.com "

>

>

> 54 mg five times a day? Of copper?? Copper can be lethal at doses of

> 3.5 grams. The most that is recommeded for daily adult intake is

> usually 3 mg. Can you provide the url for this article, please?

>

> Thanks

> René

>

[Guest guest]

,

My comments are below.

> I am concerned that it was the high copper that gave us these gains

> too...and I am worried about it if this is his cure...because I

don't

> know how long we can continue giving this much copper...

>

> It is from the pfieffer center protocol...only I didn't pay the 20

> bucks for it, I got the info off this site

>

> http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mtpromotion.htm

I'll look at this too, and see if I can help figure things out.

>

> I read it off a link from mothering dot com, around page 8 or ten

of a

> thread called " what causes autism " and saw that I was already giving

> several of the things on their protocol, so I thought maybe I would

> add a few more of their things slowly. I was taken back, too by the

> copper they recommended 1mg per lb of body weight plus 20 mg. He was

> already taking 108 a day per andy's protocol.

Of copper?? 108 mg for a 152 lb kid sounds more like Andy's

recommended ZINC dosage. Andy doesn't normally recommend copper

supplementation of ANY kind for mercury toxic people, to my

knowledge. P. 114 of the hair test book says " copper should be

uniformly excluded from supplements in all cases of heavy metal

problems other than zinc or molybdenum (as verified by blood or urine

testing, not solely based on a hair test result). If you want to try

copper supplementation, start low (500 mcg), increase every few days

and be aware and alert for signs of copper problems such as diarrhea,

malaise, fever, etc. " In another part of HTI he also says that

copper supplementation of 2-4 mg daily is appropriate for people

dealing with acute cadmium toxicity. My son is one of the few ASD

kids I know who actually does need copper supplementation, as

indicated by hair and blood tests, and also the terrible nosebleeds

he gets when I give him too much of any copper-lowering supplement,

esp. zinc. (I suspect we are dealing with cadmium issues too,

unfortunately). Even so, he only gets 1 mg copper daily, divided in

4. Now, he's a lot smaller than your son, but still, 4 mg daily is

the most I've ever seen Andy recommend for adults, and only for very

unusual circumstances.

He is 152 lbs. one week

> I upped copper to 3x , and the next week to 4x. 4x is 216 mg if each

> one is 54mg. How does mgs equal to grams? What should I watch out

for

> (and next, he isn't even home...he is STILL out doing NT things with

> his friends... Did I tell you that he is 17 and this is the first

> time he has ever spent the night?

This is great news. Besides the signs of copper toxicity mentioned

above, Murray's book says that at about 60 mg you will get

vomiting.

>

> I muscle tested my son, (do you know what that is?) which confirmed

to

> me for him to give him 4 54mg copper supplements per day. The

> pfeiffer method would be 170mg, so it is not too much over what they

> recommend. Please tell me this dose isn't deadly, because it is

> working. This week I gave him 5 coppers at 54 mg each per day.

This

> week I will do more research to see if this is ok, but i got this #

> from muscle testing...I muscle test for quanity of each pill every

> week before I put them in the weekly pill minder.

If I was giving this dose of copper to anyone in my family, it would

only be with HEAVY medical supervision (if only you knew how averse I

am to medical treatment right now, you'd know how shocking this is).

If you plan to use the Pfeiffer protocol (which I'm not too familiar

with - I'm surprised that they would use copper like this, but I'll

research it) perhaps you need to be under their supervision too, even

if that means lots more money. This seems quite scary to do on your

own.

>

> I am going to read the above link again and see what else to add. I

> can let everyone know exactly what my son is taking too if that will

> help us figure out how this happened.

Sorry if I sound harsh, . I just really don't want this to

turn very, very bad for you. Note that copper does build up over

time, so even if things are going well now, you should be on the

lookout for poisoning.

take care

René

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, . I missed one of your questions.

4x is 216 mg if each

> > one is 54mg. How does mgs equal to grams?

216 mg = 2.16 grams. Fatal dose for copper is as low as 3.5 grams,

and copper does accumulate in the body.

From the PDR for Nutritional Supplements, p. 114: " Gram amounts of

copper can cause coma, oligura, hepatic necrosis, vascular collapse,

and death. "

René

[Guest guest]

> I am concerned that it was the high copper that gave us these gains

> too...and I am worried about it if this is his cure...because I don't

> know how long we can continue giving this much copper...

>

> It is from the pfieffer center protocol...only I didn't pay the 20

> bucks for it, I got the info off this site

>

> http://www.healing-arts.org/children/mtpromotion.htm

>

>. I was taken back, too by the

> copper they recommended 1mg per lb of body weight plus 20 mg.

, I checked that link, and this is the recommended ZINC dosage,

not copper.

René

[Guest guest]

Okay , I'm an idiot. 216 mg = 0.216 g, not 2.16. So sorry to

give you a heart attack. Still, 216 mg of copper is way too high.

René

>

> Sorry, . I missed one of your questions.

>

> 4x is 216 mg if each

> > > one is 54mg. How does mgs equal to grams?

>

> 216 mg = 2.16 grams. Fatal dose for copper is as low as 3.5 grams,

> and copper does accumulate in the body.

>

> From the PDR for Nutritional Supplements, p. 114: " Gram amounts of

> copper can cause coma, oligura, hepatic necrosis, vascular collapse,

> and death. "

>

> René

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry...my mind is frazzled with the funeral of my friend and

everything

that has happened this week....I said copper when I meant zinc. It is

zinc

loading that I did, not copper that preceeded the big gains.

again, I am so sorry for the misinformation. I don't give copper at

all. I

sent all my sons supplements and all my write ups with him across town

with him

while he is staying with his friends, so I am going not off what I had

written

down, but off my memory, which is (obviously) very bad.

It is the info. off of the amy holmes md website, where it talks about

zinc loading and mt production. They say it is either chelate with

dmsa/ala OR do their protocol, but my thought was why not do both? I

decided that I was already giving 108 mg of zinc, so why not up the

zinc and do some of the Phases they were talking about. It is a short

time of upped zinc. Then some other stuff. I am sorry guys...I am

really tired from this week, a lot of stress. I am so happy though.

I am going to read and read and read this link over again. We don't

give P5P or Manganese gluconate, but we do give vit C and E. I don't

know if it's important for me to add these things now that it seems

like we are onto something with this MT thing. I don't understand

what they were talking about with the MT production, I just went

straight to the protecol.

My son is still on this gain, and is still out and about doing

things.He ended up giving himself his chelators by himself at someone

elses house, where before I handed him everything. These are really

big gains.

[Guest guest]

I am piecing together in my mind some of my recent changes we have made

before I drive out to get my notes tomorrow. I had read research on C0Q10

and migraines, for adults. I work pt at a healthfood store and I read a recent

study off of Vitasearch, a company that puts out all of the most current studies

being done with vitamins. I remember reading that they were giving either

100mg a day or even more of CoQ10 for adults with migraines. I can't find the

research now that said this...I'll keep looking. I was really interested,

because

child #1 was taking 30 mg of COQ10 a day, and he has migraines. In all this

time chelating (15 rounds), we have seen behavioral gains, and gains with

the sleep issues, but we hadn't seen huge lasting results on what we

considered his core symptoms, one of which is migraines. For some reason I

didn't include his ocd fear of leaving the house as a core symptom on my

questionaire that I have child #1 take every week. For migraines, I upped his

COQ10 from 30 mg 1x a day to 30 mg 2 x a day two weeks ago, and then 3x a

day last week before the big gains. Natural Factors brand. I ordered coQ10

in bulk powder from NOW for next week, because that is the only way I can

afford to continue COQ10 at this pace.

Child #1 doesn't like to constantly dwell on his physical symptoms, so I

haven't asked him if his migraines are better yet, but next chance I get, I will

ask. On the phone, he had a normal conversation with me about something

other than pertaining to video games...his sole interest of which all

conversations always are about...which is very different. He told me how they

all went out to Applebee's (a restaurant) together. My husband who has

been a doubter, asked me this morning, how do we know that he just didn't

decide that he wanted to start going out? Suddenly becoming self motivated?

He probably doesn't even understand that child #1 had an ocd fear of leaving

the house, because it is a theory that me and my cousin who has a child with

autism came up with to explain why child #1 didn't leave the house but maybe

once every two months for the past 5 years. I explained to him about the

improvements in self care skills and empathy, fear of leaving the house etc,

and he downplayed it like, oh, just behavior changes, and not any real

improvements such as in headaches, tinnitus, chronic fatiigue, nausea, etc. I

said we have seen physical improvements in his sleep issues since

beginning chelation. Then I asked him if he ever remembers our son

spending the night before and he said that he did spend the night once when

he was ten, and I said but since his regression at age 12, and he admitted that

no, he hadn't spent the night since then. I told him about the cleaning out of

the nails on his own, the increase in bathing, the changing clothes (child #1

used to regularly wear clothes until they ripped apart and fell off of his

body...we're talking months and months in the same clothes and no bathing. I

mentioned about him bathing, rinsing his mouth everyday, cleaning out under

his nails unprompted, and chelating himself, and opening the door for me and

helping in with the stuff, and feeling empathy and going to his friends fathers

viewing and funeral. My husband told me that he doesn't understand what a

big deal this is and he was just being honest. I feel like he is on another

planet from this chelation planet I'm on and I don't know what will help him

understand...so its a bummer having exciting things happening and having

family members not share your excitement.

I'll keep you posted on all the changes. So far, just the Enzymatic therapy

GSE bound with acytlcholine for the past month, the zinc loading, and coq10.

I might have made some more changes, but will need to refer to my notes. We

only started adding ala to our rounds of dmsa three rounds ago.

[Guest guest]

Hello ;

I had to comment on your post because it is so similar to what

happened when we chelated my two children. They both improved

dramatically, though were " mildly " affected according to some

definitions. The husband (now EX) couldn't see it, but did sort of see

it; it was a paradox. You would pin him down on certain things and he

would have to admit there had been a change but he would prefer to

suppose it might have " just happened " on its own. Yeah right. My kids

had ocd episodes that flared up at times, and lots of anxiety, and #1

almost failed kindergarten but pulled through learning everything he

missed in the first half of the year after we started chelation

mid-year. There are lots more symptoms too...some are still issues and

we are not yet done getting metals out though have stopped chelating

for now.

So I just want to say please put his perspective in proper

perspective. I think that there are many cases where a mother or

father is in denial about a variety of things, one of which may be the

power of these therapies and the wisdom and intelligence and ability

of the person (mom, usually) who is implementing them. Maybe there is

a level on which they don't want to acknowledge that you have achieved

something just short of miraculous through sheer determination and

intelligent efforts. They don't mean to denigrate us, always, but with

their doubt and unwillingness to acknowledge our achiements as such,

they do.

That's my .02 for ya,

Sheila

>

> I am piecing together in my mind some of my recent changes we have made

> before I drive out to get my notes tomorrow. I had read research on

C0Q10

> and migraines, for adults. I work pt at a healthfood store and I

read a recent

> study off of Vitasearch, a company that puts out all of the most

current studies

> being done with vitamins. I remember reading that they were giving

either

> 100mg a day or even more of CoQ10 for adults with migraines. I

can't find the

> research now that said this...I'll keep looking. I was really

interested, because

> child #1 was taking 30 mg of COQ10 a day, and he has migraines. In

all this

> time chelating (15 rounds), we have seen behavioral gains, and gains

with

> the sleep issues, but we hadn't seen huge lasting results on what we

> considered his core symptoms, one of which is migraines. For some

reason I

> didn't include his ocd fear of leaving the house as a core symptom

on my

> questionaire that I have child #1 take every week. For migraines, I

upped his

> COQ10 from 30 mg 1x a day to 30 mg 2 x a day two weeks ago, and then

3x a

> day last week before the big gains. Natural Factors brand. I

ordered coQ10

> in bulk powder from NOW for next week, because that is the only way

I can

> afford to continue COQ10 at this pace.

>

> Child #1 doesn't like to constantly dwell on his physical symptoms,

so I

> haven't asked him if his migraines are better yet, but next chance I

get, I will

> ask. On the phone, he had a normal conversation with me about

something

> other than pertaining to video games...his sole interest of which all

> conversations always are about...which is very different. He told me

how they

> all went out to Applebee's (a restaurant) together. My husband who

has

> been a doubter, asked me this morning, how do we know that he just

didn't

> decide that he wanted to start going out? Suddenly becoming self

motivated?

> He probably doesn't even understand that child #1 had an ocd fear of

leaving

> the house, because it is a theory that me and my cousin who has a

child with

> autism came up with to explain why child #1 didn't leave the house

but maybe

> once every two months for the past 5 years. I explained to him

about the

> improvements in self care skills and empathy, fear of leaving the

house etc,

> and he downplayed it like, oh, just behavior changes, and not any real

> improvements such as in headaches, tinnitus, chronic fatiigue,

nausea, etc. I

> said we have seen physical improvements in his sleep issues since

> beginning chelation. Then I asked him if he ever remembers our son

> spending the night before and he said that he did spend the night

once when

> he was ten, and I said but since his regression at age 12, and he

admitted that

> no, he hadn't spent the night since then. I told him about the

cleaning out of

> the nails on his own, the increase in bathing, the changing clothes

(child #1

> used to regularly wear clothes until they ripped apart and fell off

of his

> body...we're talking months and months in the same clothes and no

bathing. I

> mentioned about him bathing, rinsing his mouth everyday, cleaning

out under

> his nails unprompted, and chelating himself, and opening the door

for me and

> helping in with the stuff, and feeling empathy and going to his

friends fathers

> viewing and funeral. My husband told me that he doesn't understand

what a

> big deal this is and he was just being honest. I feel like he is on

another

> planet from this chelation planet I'm on and I don't know what will

help him

> understand...so its a bummer having exciting things happening and

having

> family members not share your excitement.

>

> I'll keep you posted on all the changes. So far, just the

Enzymatic therapy

> GSE bound with acytlcholine for the past month, the zinc loading,

and coq10.

> I might have made some more changes, but will need to refer to my

notes. We

> only started adding ala to our rounds of dmsa three rounds ago.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Any photos or videos from before that you can show your husband?

S S

I am piecing together in my mind some of my recent changes we have made <BR>

before I drive out to get my notes tomorrow.  I had read research on C0Q10 <BR>

and migraines, for adults. I work pt at a healthfood store and I read a recent

<BR>

study off of Vitasearch, a company that puts out all of the most current studies

<BR>

being done with vitamins.  I remember reading that they were giving either <BR>

100mg a day or even more of CoQ10 for adults with migraines.  I can't find the

<BR>

research now that said this...I'll keep looking.  I was really interested,

because <BR>

child #1 was taking 30 mg of COQ10 a day, and he has migraines.  In all this

<BR>

time chelating (15 rounds), we have seen behavioral gains, and gains with <BR>

the sleep issues, but we hadn't seen huge lasting results on what we <BR>

considered his core symptoms, one of which is migraines. For some reason I <BR>

didn't include his ocd fear of leaving the house as a core symptom on my <BR>

questionaire that I have child #1 take every week.  For migraines, I upped his

<BR>

COQ10 from 30 mg 1x a day to 30 mg 2 x a day two weeks ago, and then 3x a <BR>

day last week before the big gains.  Natural Factors brand.   I ordered  coQ10

<BR>

in bulk powder from NOW for next week, because that is the only way I can <BR>

afford to continue COQ10 at this pace. <BR>

<BR>

Child #1 doesn't like to constantly dwell on his physical symptoms, so I <BR>

haven't asked him if his migraines are better yet, but next chance I get, I will

<BR>

ask.  On the phone, he had a normal conversation with me about something <BR>

other than pertaining to video games...his sole interest of which all <BR>

conversations always are about...which is very different. He told me how they

<BR>

all went out to Applebee's (a restaurant) together.   My husband who has <BR>

been a doubter, asked me this morning, how do we know that he just didn't <BR>

decide that he wanted to start going out?  Suddenly becoming self motivated? 

<BR>

He probably doesn't even understand that child #1 had an ocd fear of leaving

<BR>

the house, because it is a theory that me and my cousin who has a child with

<BR>

autism came up with to explain why child #1 didn't leave the house but maybe

<BR>

once every two months for the past 5 years.  I explained to him about the <BR>

improvements in self care skills and empathy, fear of leaving the house etc,

<BR>

and he downplayed it like, oh, just behavior changes, and not any real <BR>

improvements such as in headaches, tinnitus, chronic fatiigue, nausea, etc.  I

<BR>

said we have seen physical improvements in his sleep issues since <BR>

beginning chelation.  Then I asked him if he ever remembers our son <BR>

spending the night before and he said that he did spend the night once when <BR>

he was ten, and I said but since his regression at age 12, and he admitted that

<BR>

no, he hadn't spent the night since then.  I told him about the cleaning out of

<BR>

the nails on his own, the increase in bathing, the changing clothes (child #1

<BR>

used to regularly wear clothes until they ripped apart and fell off of his <BR>

body...we're talking months and months in the same clothes and no bathing.  I

<BR>

mentioned about him bathing, rinsing his mouth everyday, cleaning out under <BR>

his nails unprompted, and chelating himself, and opening the door for me and

<BR>

helping in with the stuff, and feeling empathy and going to his friends fathers

<BR>

viewing and funeral.  My husband told me that he doesn't understand what a <BR>

big deal this is and he was just being honest.  I feel like he is on another

<BR>

planet  from this chelation planet I'm on and I don't know what will help him

<BR>

understand...so its a bummer having exciting things happening and having <BR>

family members not share your excitement.<BR>

<BR>

I'll keep you posted on all the changes.  So far,  just the Enzymatic therapy

<BR>

GSE bound with acytlcholine for the past month, the zinc loading, and coq10. 

<BR>

I might have made some more changes, but will need to refer to my notes. We <BR>

only started adding ala to our rounds of dmsa three rounds ago.  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

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[Guest guest]

Sheila's comments are very wise. We are in a similar spot; dh does

admit that our son is doing well, but he has some difficulty seeing

how things are connected. Since I'm the one spending many hours

every week on biomed research & application, I have to think back to

how weird this all seemed to me earlier; how specific behaviours can

be related to specific imbalances or deficiencies. I would read of

someone saying " toe walking happens because of X " or " obsessive

behaviour is often due to y " and it all sounded like hocus pocus.

Until I would treat our son based on this information and hey presto:

behaviour change. It's easier for people to see how you might get

better sleeps or digestion, but the behaviour connection is still

quite strange. Maybe this is a western bias.

I have just started chelating myself. I needed a whacked-out hair

test to convince myself that maybe, just maybe, my disorganization

and shyness and sense of futility is less about who I am and more

about what kind of junk is inside my body. It's too early to say

yet, but it's going to be an interesting experiment. :-)

ps. sometimes www.papanature.com has good specials on CoQ10.

take care

René

[Guest guest]

Below in this post is our complete protocol preceeding the gains. I

went and got my notes...

On the question... if we have any photos, a box of them! I got them

out and asked dh to organize them in chronological order. I told my

husband how I felt about his saying " maybe he just decided to go out " .

I think that he is so out of the loop that he doesn't realize the tiny

little things we are looking at when we chelate. I explained to him

about chelating and looking for really subtle changes such as less of

a vacant look in the eye. My husband would like to make a scientific

chart on excel to chart improvements. He wants to greatly expand what

I am charting, which is headache, tinnitus, anxiety, insomnia,

vomiting, nausea, chemical sensitivity, diarrea, chronic fatigue, body

aches, and feeling of unwellness. He wants to include everything on

the chart from vacant look in the eyes, ocd, yeast issues,

rudeness,empathy,hygene, etc. Do you have any suggestions for things

that would go on a chart of this sort that might be able to be used by

everyone? I figure those of us with excel could all use the same

chart? He says that we ought to be able to chart everything. I only

chart once a week, so, I don't think this would be much more difficult

than what I am already doing. He says it will be easy to put the

information into excel, then once the info is put into excel, very

easy to make the facts appear in the form of a graph, showing the ups

and downs, even noting certain times of the year like pesticide

season, allergy season, school, and other variables.

We have pictures birth to age 12, and I can see the beginnings of the

regression around twelve. Then, we switched to computer pics right

around age 12...they are scattered, among four computers and multiple

files...plus there is the factor that we didn't take many photos of

him during these years, because he wasn't bathed and he refused

photos. I am searching and gathering those rare pics into one file.

I made a great video of child #1 around round 3 of chelation. It

showed me calling his name and him just staring into his video screen

and not making a response. Well. Child #1 doesn't like his picture

taken or his video taken. He deleted the video taken at round #3 of

chelation later that day, so even though he didn't make a response, he

knew I was taping him and was aware enough to go delete it later. He

goes through the camera whenever people take photos of him and deletes

pictures of him. I took a video of him today, and he was not happy

about it, so it just shows him yelling and cussing at me to turn it

off. But I can see improvements, still..he looked directly into my

eye and asked me to stop taping or he would break the camera:) Hey, I

take eye contact however I can get it:)

After round 15, he asked if he could take a few days off of

supplements, because on round he takes the supplements every 3 hours

instead of 4 and he feels overloaded by the end of 3 days. So, from

Friday at 7 am until Sunday at 2pm, he didn't take any supplements at

all. Since he wasn't home, I was unable to check on him because he

turned the cell phone off on Saturday when they went to a movie (he

went to a movie!!!!), and he didn't turn the cell phone back on for me

to check on him after the movie. He met his friends girlfriend, and

was polite, and his friends say he was much more polite and didn't use

foul language around the adults or his friends girlfriend. Then, he

said please to me twice, which his friends pointed out was a first,

and a second...ha ha. So, by the time I got the camera out to take a

video of him, he had just been reminded that he hadn't cussed in a

long while, so he let it rip with the cussing while I taped, to show

his displeasure at being taped. He refused to give me consent to use

his tape or his pictures or share them...sigh.

Here is the supplement list as of April 27 our protocol.

w/meals

super strength oreganol

Now Cod liver oil

trio of houstons enzymes

Candex 2 or 4 caps a day for candida albicans. 2 caps 2x a day. I've

been only remembering about once a day to give this to child #1.

Between meals or usually it has been mid day in between meals, away

from supplements. It's hard to find the right time to give this

supplement w/ his schedule.

3 custom probiotics caps after each meal (went without for the past

week and a half when we ran out of caps-could be a gain by omittance)

supplements as of April 27 for 17 year old 152lb boy

19 handmade sodium Ascorbate caps 5 caps 3xper day, 4 caps once per

day...this is in a 500mg cap, but not all the way full (not the top

part, if you know what I mean). This is a recent change from

Solaray's Ascorbic acid w/ rosehips, so we did change the kind of

vitamin C child #1 got, the end of April. Plus we have upped it from

ten a day, and upped it by one each week for the past nine weeks.

1 inositol NOW 500mg..one cap in the am...there was a difference

here...for the past 3 weeks we had been out...so this could be an gain

by omittance

4 New beginnings chelated calcium 215mg, one cap 4x a day

4 New beginnings chelated magnesium 115mg, one cap 4x a day (some

weeks I only give him this 3 times a day)I muscle test before I put

the pills in the pill minder

3 new beginnings molybdenum 250 mcg, one cap 3 times a day

3 new beginnings chelated selinium 200mcg, 3 caps a day

5 new beginnings chelated zinc, 54 mg, one cap was three times a day

on april 27, and each week after that I upped it by an extra 54 mgs

(one cap) that week to arrive at 5 a day by this week. We might have

done a couple weeks at four and this is week 3 of zinc loading at 5.

Gee-I need to keep better track of this since the zinc loading is only

for a specific time. One problem is that phase one is zinc loading,

but I haven't figured out what to do after this on the pfeiffer

protocol or if this is compatable with what we are doing with the

cutler protocol. My husband thinks this is like jumping without

looking where you leap to see if you will land on anything...

2 New beginnings L-Taurine 500mg, one cap two times a day (next week

we are switching to NOW brand and capping ourselves)

4 Orthomolecular orthomega fish oil 420 epa/300 dha, one cap four

times a day

4 New beginnings milk thistle 100mg/ one cap four times a day

1 Now vitamin E 1 cap once in the eve

2 NOW folic 800mcg w/25mcg B-12/ one cap twice a day in the afternoon/eve

1 Borage oil 1000mg/ once a day in the eve. We had run out

of this, then started up again. Muscle testing said to up it, we

upped it to two caps a day, then wait a week than upped to three caps

a day, then upped this four a day...upping by one cap per week. I

think I didn't send this with him at his friends. I have more pills

than will fit in the pill minder with this and orthomega and need to

switch to mini ziplocks or some other method of pill storage.

1 NOW L-lysine 500mg each noon (we had run out of this a couple weeks

ago and I haven't capped them yet, could be a gain by omittance)

2 Natural Factors CoQ10 30 mg 2 caps each eve. We stayed at two for a

couple weeks, then the third week upped it to three, and last week

before big gains gave 4.

3 Enzymatic Therapy Grapeseed PCO Phytosome 50 mg/ one cap 3 times a

day. We started this the end of April. This is the Grapefruit seed

phytosome bound with phosphatidylcholine under patent...and I just

read about phosphatidylcholine in some research about autism, so was

really excited that this had it in it. This regularly cost $35.95,

and I bought two containers, of 120 caps each, for $3.00 each because

they just expired. We will use them w/in a few months, so I think it

will be ok, and could be part of the reason for the gains. This says

on the package that it is 3-7 times more absorbable than unbound

extracts, and I would have to say yes. Child #1 had much less of the

bacterial casket smell coming off of his body and out of his mouth on

this. It is going to not be fun to pay full price for it, but I think

we will keep this as our GSE, forever. Usually people report an

increase in yeast when starting ALA, and we have had no problems

starting Ala three rounds ago, and I think it because this is more

absorbable like it says. It's kicking yeast butt.

1 NOW psyllium husk 500mg/ one cap one time per day

1 NOW B-50 every am. I started this around April 27, or the week

before, I tried giving him one every once in a while and seeing if he

reacted badly to it. Since he didn't, I started giving it to him

everyday about two or three weeks ago, so this could be a contributor

to the gains.

I realize now that I have changed (added/omitted) so many things it

might be difficult to pinpoint what to attribute the gains to. I

think the zinc, coQ10, and B-50 are high in the running for the gains.

I can't wait to hear your take on this. I hope this information will

help someone else stomp out their child's OCD symptoms.

[Guest guest]

Having your huband involved in the charting is a great way for him to start

paying more attention to the improvements...

S S

Below in this post is our complete protocol preceeding the gains.  I<BR>

went and got my notes...<BR>

<BR>

On the question... if we have any photos, a box of them! I got them<BR>

out and asked dh to organize them in chronological order. I told my<BR>

husband how I felt about his saying " maybe he just decided to go out " .<BR>

I think that he is so out of the loop that he doesn't realize the tiny<BR>

little things we are looking at when we chelate. I explained to him<BR>

about chelating and looking for really subtle changes such as less of<BR>

a vacant look in the eye. My husband would like to make a scientific<BR>

chart on excel to chart improvements.  He wants to greatly expand what<BR>

I am charting, which is headache, tinnitus, anxiety, insomnia,<BR>

vomiting, nausea, chemical sensitivity, diarrea, chronic fatigue, body<BR>

aches, and feeling of unwellness.  He wants to include everything on<BR>

the chart from vacant look in the eyes, ocd, yeast issues,<BR>

rudeness,empathy,hygene, etc.  Do you have any suggestions for things<BR>

that would go on a chart of this sort that might be able to be used by<BR>

everyone?  I figure those of us with excel could all use the same<BR>

chart? He says that we ought to be able to chart everything. I only<BR>

chart once a week, so, I don't think this would be much more difficult<BR>

than what I am already doing.  He says it will be easy to put the<BR>

information into excel, then once the info is put into excel, very<BR>

easy to make the facts appear in the form of a graph, showing the ups<BR>

and downs, even noting certain times of the year like pesticide<BR>

season, allergy season, school, and other variables. <BR>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

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[Guest guest]

> I am concerned that it was the high copper that gave us these gains

> too...and I am worried about it if this is his cure...because I don't

> know how long we can continue giving this much copper...

I know you have corrected your story to write that you are

supplementing zinc instead of copper, but I thought I would mention

that of my four kids, one of them was low copper and requires copper

supplementation. At first, I just gave him zinc, like I gave my other

three kids, but it caused a major nosebleed shortly after giving it to

him. Nosebleeds are a sign of low copper. So I removed the zinc and

gave him copper [4mg per day, which is 200% USRDA]. After a while, I

added 10-15mg zinc [100% USRDA] to the 4mg copper, which right now

works well for him.

Some kids *are* low copper, altho most are not.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Yes, this is our situation too. My kids cannot tolerate zinc without

some copper or it's a bloodbath here, definitely not the norm. I'm

getting my son checked for cadmium poisoning. Ugh.

René

--- In , " danasview " <danasview@...>

I just gave him zinc, like I gave my other

> three kids, but it caused a major nosebleed shortly after giving it

to

> him. Nosebleeds are a sign of low copper. So I removed the zinc

and

> gave him copper [4mg per day, which is 200% USRDA]. After a while,

I

> added 10-15mg zinc [100% USRDA] to the 4mg copper, which right now

> works well for him.

>

> Some kids *are* low copper, altho most are not.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

What kind of zinc are you giving? That makes a difference.

S

Yes, this is our situation too.  My kids cannot tolerate zinc without <BR>

some copper or it's a bloodbath here, definitely not the norm.  I'm <BR>

getting my son checked for cadmium poisoning.  Ugh.<BR>

<BR>

René<BR>

<BR>

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[Guest guest]

Zinc citrate.

René

>

> Yes, this is our situation too.  My kids cannot tolerate zinc

without <BR>

> some copper or it's a bloodbath here, definitely not the norm.  I'm

<BR>

> getting my son checked for cadmium poisoning.  Ugh.<BR>

> <BR>

> René<BR>

> <BR>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

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> The most personalized portal on the Web!

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe worth trying another form of zinc? Supplement file may indicate which?

S S

From: joshisims [mailto: joshisims@...]

Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:37:30 -0000

Subject: [ ] Re: Miraculous Big Gains-Child #1

<html><body>

Zinc citrate.<BR>

<BR>

René<BR>

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[Guest guest]

I am giving new beginnings zinc (as a chelazome), 54 mg 5x a day.

He came back from a week and a half at his friends, I think he may have had some

cereal and milk meals without enzymes, and skipped some supplement dosages. He

was clean, but he had a very yeasty/bacterial smell from his breath, which he

was being self conscious of, which is a change. He had drunk a case of pop over

there. I told him, you can't do that and not get yeast.

He seems a little more weak and confused, less eye contact, not doing as much

things himself, but the social interaction is still there. He and his friends

all went to another movie last night to celebrate one of his friends 18th

birthdays. He wore pajama pants instead of jeans, but he shaved, and his dad

helped him. He is back to not being as independent with basic life skills. Not

opening the door, or helping in with the stuff. He has gone somewhere everyday

since May 19th!!!!

I feel like we've got to now get him back on a regular schedule of diet

supplements and I do think that yeast control is playing a factor, and we are

going to have to shore up now with the yeast protocol and watch our sugars. I

am so glad that he got to spend this time with his friends though, it was worth

it.