Re: Another lead question - LINDA W.

September 22, 2006

,

I was referring to hair levels. We started mid-high green and are

now low to mid-low green. We have tested my son's blood levels

pretty regularly and it is usually around 1.2, with a reference

range of 0-9.9 meaning " no significant lead exposure " . We did have

one test which showed in the 6 range. I think that was when I had

his blood drawn just after a chelation round. But hair tests

subsequent to that show consistently declining lead levels, and the

next blood test was back to the low 1s.

There are, I am sure, others who know better than I, but your

results would scare me. I wonder whether there isn't some current

exposure somewhere. Have you chased down all possibilities? You

might ask your doc to run a blood test. That might give you some

insight. Or perhaps the DMSA is riling things up but your daughter

is not excreting well? Just a few thoughts.

Best,

Anne

> >

> > My son's lead levels have consistently gone down with

chelation. Do

> > you have blood work done? If so, have you tested her blood lead

> > levels?

> >

> > Anne

>

> Are you talking about levels in hair or blood going down?

>

> We have not had blood levels checked for 5-6 years. Then it was

well

> below a level that concerned the pediatrician. (I think it was

10% of

> the lower end of the range that indicated officially poisoned.) Of

> course, I realize ANY level of lead showing up is bad.

>

> Also, she does not take any form of calcium carbonate, which I

know if

> also a potential lead source.

>

> Thanks,

>

> W.

>

> P.S. Here are her hair test lead levels:

>

> 7/15/05 1.1 (just started chelation with DMSA)

> 9/23/05 2.0 (1st round of ALA on 8/18)

> 11/15/05 1.6

> 1/17/06 1.6

> 5/15/06 2.2

> 8/12/06 4.5

>

> So, the level has gone from the boundary between green and yellow,

to

> the boundary between yellow and red.

>

September 22, 2006

>

> ,

>

> I was referring to hair levels. We started mid-high green and are

> now low to mid-low green. We have tested my son's blood levels

> pretty regularly and it is usually around 1.2, with a reference

> range of 0-9.9 meaning " no significant lead exposure " . We did have

> one test which showed in the 6 range. I think that was when I had

> his blood drawn just after a chelation round. But hair tests

> subsequent to that show consistently declining lead levels, and the

> next blood test was back to the low 1s.

Well, I'm glad that's happening for your son. Scary that it is not

for my daughter. One thought I have had about why my daughter's hair

lead is higher is that we have been chelating only every other week

instead of every week as we were earlier, due to high copper. Do you

think that could lead to results like I've seen? (In fact, from 6/6

to 8/24 she did only 3 rounds. This corresponds to the hair test with

the highest lead.) As Andy has mentioned and Dana's " DAD " article

says, the lead stored in ones bone marrow slowly leaches out after

each round of chelation. Perhaps, chelating less frequently lets more

of it build up.

> Have you chased down all possibilities [of exposure]?

Everything I can think of.

> You might ask your doc to run a blood test.

Would that be RBC lead? If so, I would assume some lead would be

expected given that we chelate regularly. What exactly would we be

looking for? Certainly anyone with combination mercury and copper

poisoning, which she also has, is likely to have excretion problems.

Thanks,

W.

September 22, 2006

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I was referring to hair levels. We started mid-high green and

are

> > now low to mid-low green. We have tested my son's blood levels

> > pretty regularly and it is usually around 1.2, with a reference

> > range of 0-9.9 meaning " no significant lead exposure " . We did

have

> > one test which showed in the 6 range. I think that was when I

had

> > his blood drawn just after a chelation round. But hair tests

> > subsequent to that show consistently declining lead levels, and

the

> > next blood test was back to the low 1s.

>

> Well, I'm glad that's happening for your son. Scary that it is not

> for my daughter. One thought I have had about why my daughter's

hair

> lead is higher is that we have been chelating only every other week

> instead of every week as we were earlier, due to high copper. Do

you

> think that could lead to results like I've seen? (In fact, from

6/6

> to 8/24 she did only 3 rounds. This corresponds to the hair test

with

> the highest lead.)

I don't know if that would account for the significant rise you

might be experiencing. We started chelating in June of 2005, and

have only done 30 or so rounds (not including a couple of botched

attempts). So, we have averaged about every other week, I think.

We have had periods like you during which we have chelated very

litte (such as when trying to get up and running with anti-virals),

and we have also had periods during which we chelate every week.

> As Andy has mentioned and Dana's " DAD " article

> says, the lead stored in ones bone marrow slowly leaches out after

> each round of chelation. Perhaps, chelating less frequently lets

more

> of it build up.

Perhaps, but I thought that unlike mercury, lead leaches out looking

for a homeostasis (not the right word, but after two nights of me

handling chelation alone, I am kind of brain dead).

>

> > Have you chased down all possibilities [of exposure]?

>

> Everything I can think of.

>

> > You might ask your doc to run a blood test.

>

> Would that be RBC lead? If so, I would assume some lead would be

> expected given that we chelate regularly.

We chelate pretty regularly (as described above) and generally have

low blood lead levels. Our prior lab results call it " Lead Blood " .

We just had some blood drawn and I don't remember whether we decided

to check for lead on this one. I don't have those results back if

we did, but if so, I will let you know where we came out on it. I

had the blood drawn on Tuesday after finishing a round Saturday

evening.

> What exactly would we be

> looking for? Certainly anyone with combination mercury and copper

> poisoning, which she also has, is likely to have excretion

problems.

Of course, anyone with a mercury and copper problem has excretion

issues... I meant to ask whether you check to make sure liver and

kidney, etc., are up and running. I have never tested excretion for

my son, per se, although I did just order a fecal metals test from

Direct Labs. We do run blood tests every few months to check for

liver function, etc. Have you done that? We, too, had copper in

the red when we started. I gave tons and tons of molybdenum per

Andy and it came down pretty quickly. If I remember correctly, you

have already tried this. If not, it is worth looking into. I never

did figure out when copper was an issue, really, and when not.

There are some archived discussions with Andy about copper, which I

suppose you have already seen, but I found them somewhat confusing.

Like Andy knew when copper was really a problem and when it was

really a problem, but I couldn't quite wrap my mind around it all.

Perhaps you are right that only chelating infrequently is a big

problem for your daughter. I wish I had more answers or insights

for you.

Anne

September 22, 2006

> Perhaps, but I thought that unlike mercury, lead leaches out looking

> for a homeostasis (not the right word, but after two nights of me

> handling chelation alone, I am kind of brain dead).

I think that's the right term. I just wonder how long it takes. Andy

indicates in the archives that if you are chelating for lead alone you

only need to do it about once a month, after an initial period of

intensive chelation. So, maybe chelating once a week keeps it at a

lower level than chelating every other week. In other words, possibly

it does not reach homeostasis in a week or even two. There was one

gap of almost a month between chelation sessions about a month before

my daughter's August hair sample.

> Of course, anyone with a mercury and copper problem has excretion

> issues... I meant to ask whether you check to make sure liver and

> kidney, etc., are up and running.

Testing in June '06 showed everything on a CBC and comprehensive

metabolic profile in range. It was not detailed kidney or liver

testing, but the standard stuff was all pretty much middle of the

reference range. What I meant my mercury and copper excretion issues

were liver problems. Although the tests show normal liver enzymes,

she is sensitive to fragrances, which I believe is usually an

indication of poor liver function.

Thanks for your thoughts. We certainly have tried the tons of

molybdenum approach to reduce copper. My daughter's never got

incredibly high, but my hair molydenum got up to .22, with a high end

of the reference range being .056 when I took 1mg molybdenum per meal

for a year or so. My copper was at 140 (with high end of ref range

35) on that same test, so my molybdenum was scarily high, but my

copper was still out of control.

W.

September 22, 2006

> I think that's the right term. I just wonder how long it takes. Andy

> indicates in the archives that if you are chelating for lead alone you

> only need to do it about once a month, after an initial period of

> intensive chelation. So, maybe chelating once a week keeps it at a

> lower level than chelating every other week. In other words, possibly

> it does not reach homeostasis in a week or even two. There was one

> gap of almost a month between chelation sessions about a month before

> my daughter's August hair sample.

I just found the info I mentioned above about how often you need to

chelate for lead on pg. 244 of Hair Test Interpretation. It says

after a month or two of intensive chelation, you only need to chelate

for a few days every month or two. This implies the rate at which

lead reaches equilibrium is slow. HTI says it can vary from person to

person. Obviously, because my daughter is also mercury poisoned, we

chelate more often.

However, I'm certainly open to suggestions of other places to check

for current lead exposure. So far, we have tested shower water,

plates and lunchbox. We drink bottled water and I tested it and got

the company analysis.

W.

September 22, 2006

Have you indicated whether your daughter is homeschooled? If not,

maybe school is an issue? Maybe a friend's house? You said your

house is new (6 yrs?), so that isn't it. How about a church? A

community area? Just a few thoughts.

Anne

>

> > I think that's the right term. I just wonder how long it

takes. Andy

> > indicates in the archives that if you are chelating for lead

alone you

> > only need to do it about once a month, after an initial period of

> > intensive chelation. So, maybe chelating once a week keeps it

at a

> > lower level than chelating every other week. In other words,

possibly

> > it does not reach homeostasis in a week or even two. There was

one

> > gap of almost a month between chelation sessions about a month

before

> > my daughter's August hair sample.

>

> I just found the info I mentioned above about how often you need to

> chelate for lead on pg. 244 of Hair Test Interpretation. It says

> after a month or two of intensive chelation, you only need to

chelate

> for a few days every month or two. This implies the rate at which

> lead reaches equilibrium is slow. HTI says it can vary from

person to

> person. Obviously, because my daughter is also mercury poisoned,

we

> chelate more often.

>

> However, I'm certainly open to suggestions of other places to check

> for current lead exposure. So far, we have tested shower water,

> plates and lunchbox. We drink bottled water and I tested it and

got

> the company analysis.

>

> W.

>

> W.

>

September 22, 2006

Toys, art supplies, the soil outside your home, water at school. We

found that some of my kids toys had paint on them that contained

lead. Crayons not made in the USA are a no-no. They often say they

meet astm standards but when tested they contain lead. Childrens'

play jewelry is a biggy to check too. Children's china tea sets are

bad. A lot of those dollar store kind of toys have lead in them.

Corning ware bakeware, Corelle dishes. Any earthen ware or china.

Even if your home is new, what was on that land before your house?

Check the history of the land. Was there anything else there 20

years ago, 50 years ago, etc. I read of one family living in a brand

new modular, that they had built on some land in the country..there

kids were really high lead, and come to find out, the farmer who

owned that land some 40 years before..used to smelt lead in a pit

out back of what was now there back yard. So you never know, if

needed consult a lead risk specialist or get some books at the

library to look for sources.

We are chelating for lead, and Andy said that we should do it every

week for the first few months, the every other week for a few

months, then once a month for the remaining time of what would be

like two years or so. If that helps.

I know school fountains, and school water pipes are usually a source

of lead because most schools are old and the plumbing is old as

well. Any home built before the 1980's will have lead solder on the

plumbing. Also, faucet even NEW ones leach lead from the brass into

the water. There are some brands that leach more than others. So we

only do bottled water.

> >

> > > I think that's the right term. I just wonder how long it

> takes. Andy

> > > indicates in the archives that if you are chelating for lead

> alone you

> > > only need to do it about once a month, after an initial period

of

> > > intensive chelation. So, maybe chelating once a week keeps it

> at a

> > > lower level than chelating every other week. In other words,

> possibly

> > > it does not reach homeostasis in a week or even two. There

was

> one

> > > gap of almost a month between chelation sessions about a month

> before

> > > my daughter's August hair sample.

> >

> > I just found the info I mentioned above about how often you need

to

> > chelate for lead on pg. 244 of Hair Test Interpretation. It says

> > after a month or two of intensive chelation, you only need to

> chelate

> > for a few days every month or two. This implies the rate at

which

> > lead reaches equilibrium is slow. HTI says it can vary from

> person to

> > person. Obviously, because my daughter is also mercury

poisoned,

> we

> > chelate more often.

> >

> > However, I'm certainly open to suggestions of other places to

check

> > for current lead exposure. So far, we have tested shower water,

> > plates and lunchbox. We drink bottled water and I tested it and

> got

> > the company analysis.

> >

> > W.

> >

> > W.

> >

>

September 22, 2006

>

> Crayons not made in the USA are a no-no.

Would just drawing with them when they still have intact wrappers be

bad? My daughter loves to draw while waiting at restaurants. Are

markers a potential source of lead? If anything, she's drawing less

lately than before, though. She's 9 so she's not putting toys or

crayons in her mouth.

> Any earthen ware or china.

I used a lead swab on several of our set of dishes and found no lead.

Then I poured boiling water in a bowl and left it to cool and sent it

off to DDI for testing. Is there more you should do to test dishes?

Or should I just throw away anything except glass?

> Also, faucet even NEW ones leach lead from the brass into

> the water. There are some brands that leach more than others. So we

> only do bottled water.

The 6 year old Grohe faucet in my daughter's bathroom definitely

showed lead in a water sample sent to DDI. She brushes her teeth with

bottled water now. (We also drink nothing but bottled water.) I

assume this is at least ** A ** source of the lead in her system, but

there could be more.

There was a house here that presumably had lead paint prior to the one

we built. We did have some soil testing done before building that

found no problems, but I suppose we could repeat it. I guess there is

no protection from dirt from other people's yards blowing into our

house. It is very common in our neighborhood to tear down old houses

(circa 1940's) and build new ones. Most of the new ones have

basements dug and all that dirt is trucked past our house.

My daughter really doesn't spend much time away from home. I send

food and bottled water for her when she goes to other people's houses

for visits or to day camps. She does a 6 hour/week nature awareness

program in a several hundred acre park and a homeschool park day, but

I have no idea how to sample them. Would horseback riding be a

possible source of lead?

Thanks,

W.

September 22, 2006

,

Horseback riding...my daughter does this and the barn where we take

her is loaded with old lead paint. Some of it peeling. What does the

barn look like? We don't take my son with us because of this. And

she has to wash good after a lesson.

If they are tearing down 1940's housing, are they tenting off the

site and removing the leaded parts first or just smashing it down?

If they do not hazmat the house apart according to lead safe ways,

then they are releasing lead into everyone's yards/air. And thus

into your houses. Same if someone with one of those old houses

decides to scrap and repaint the wooden siding.

I doubt just drawing with them would be a huge source of lead.

Markers are fine. We just make a rule to stick to crayola. Since

they are lead free.

Just a thought but there are no stained glass sun catchers in your

home? Leaded crystal? Do you have tile in the house, or porcelain

tubs? Ceramic tile usually has lead in the glaze but it is not

supposed to be a problem unless you break/smash the tiles as in

removing them.

As for dishes, if they are not labeled lead free china, then they

have lead in the glaze. We contacted Corning about our corelle

dishes and cookware, because the lead swab showed nothing. They said

that all their products contain lead in the glaze but it meets the

FDA standard for lead leaching. So we packed those away and switched

to plain glass from walmart. They are actually cheaper than the

corelle. I think there are only two companies that make lead free

earthen ware and china. Check the back of your dishes to see what it

says, and then contact the company. They have to give you the

testing results. If it's made in mexico or some other country...toss

it. Basically, if you have really nice china it's ok to save it,

just don't let her eat off it. We only use glass now. For most

people the small amount is said not to be a problem, but for lead

kids any amount is is a problem.

My experience with lead is that they usually are picking it up where

they spend the most time. For us, it ended up being our house, my

son and I came up the hightest, which is fitting as we were the ones

spending the most time in the house.

I know how frusturating this is...are we sure it is not a high hair

result from chelation? Is there any possibility the chelation could

do that? I think we need to find Andy on that. With all this

detective work, let's hope it's just chelation. I can't remember but

is this the first testing that it's been up, or is there an upward

trend going on?

> >

> > Crayons not made in the USA are a no-no.

>

> Would just drawing with them when they still have intact wrappers

be

> bad? My daughter loves to draw while waiting at restaurants. Are

> markers a potential source of lead? If anything, she's drawing

less

> lately than before, though. She's 9 so she's not putting toys or

> crayons in her mouth.

>

> > Any earthen ware or china.

>

> I used a lead swab on several of our set of dishes and found no

lead.

> Then I poured boiling water in a bowl and left it to cool and

sent it

> off to DDI for testing. Is there more you should do to test

dishes?

> Or should I just throw away anything except glass?

>

> > Also, faucet even NEW ones leach lead from the brass into

> > the water. There are some brands that leach more than others. So

we

> > only do bottled water.

>

> The 6 year old Grohe faucet in my daughter's bathroom definitely

> showed lead in a water sample sent to DDI. She brushes her teeth

with

> bottled water now. (We also drink nothing but bottled water.) I

> assume this is at least ** A ** source of the lead in her system,

but

> there could be more.

>

> There was a house here that presumably had lead paint prior to the

one

> we built. We did have some soil testing done before building that

> found no problems, but I suppose we could repeat it. I guess

there is

> no protection from dirt from other people's yards blowing into our

> house. It is very common in our neighborhood to tear down old

houses

> (circa 1940's) and build new ones. Most of the new ones have

> basements dug and all that dirt is trucked past our house.

>

> My daughter really doesn't spend much time away from home. I send

> food and bottled water for her when she goes to other people's

houses

> for visits or to day camps. She does a 6 hour/week nature

awareness

> program in a several hundred acre park and a homeschool park day,

but

> I have no idea how to sample them. Would horseback riding be a

> possible source of lead?

>

> Thanks,

>

> W.

>

September 23, 2006

How old is your daughter? Lead exposure that occurred years ago will not show

for awhile when chelating. That's usually not true for little ones, under 5 or

so, but can be relevant for the older kids.

[ ] Re: Another lead question - LINDA W.