Re: Re: Andy: Any opinion on Natural Cellular Defense (NCD)?

[Guest guest]

I don't know, was Andy commenting on NCD or zeolites when he said it was

harmless?

Re: [ ] Re: Andy: Any opinion on Natural Cellular

Defense (NCD)?

Makes sense, for me to try it there would have to be some good safety data

available. I remember others saying there is a fine line between okay to ingest

zeolite and harmful ones. It would be interesting to know if anyone else is

making such a product. I do know we didn't have any negative side effects from

using the NCD that I could tell. Still it will only be used to supplement what

we are doing. I can't dismiss everything Andy has said and done, not a chance

of that happening.

rheaton_stormcast <rheaton_stormcast@...> wrote:

I wouldnt recommend taking 'any ol zeolite'. The patented process of

NCD is what makes it safe and effective. " Raw zeolite " , if you will,

is not safe. There is a considerable process involved in the

development and production of NCD. There have been other zeolite

products out there, but without the micronized refining patented

process, as such with NCD, user beware. Zeolite naturally has several

minerals in it that are not health friendly. The process by which

they refine NCD strips away any unhealthy elements leaving only a

structure that is " pure " , safe and effective.

Reese

> >

> > Trying something out that has no validation can be dangerous.

>

> But..but ...Andy said it was " harmless " ??!!

>

> heheh *jib*

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Good point, can't remember. I do remember Valentina saying something about

certain ones not being safe...I just remember him saying at least the NCD was

harmless. Not jumping into anything anytime right this moment so I will

definitely keep looking for more info.

Thanks,

Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...> wrote:

I don't know, was Andy commenting on NCD or zeolites when he said it was

harmless?

Re: [ ] Re: Andy: Any opinion on Natural Cellular

Defense (NCD)?

Makes sense, for me to try it there would have to be some good safety data

available. I remember others saying there is a fine line between okay to ingest

zeolite and harmful ones. It would be interesting to know if anyone else is

making such a product. I do know we didn't have any negative side effects from

using the NCD that I could tell. Still it will only be used to supplement what

we are doing. I can't dismiss everything Andy has said and done, not a chance

of that happening.

rheaton_stormcast <rheaton_stormcast@...> wrote:

I wouldnt recommend taking 'any ol zeolite'. The patented process of

NCD is what makes it safe and effective. " Raw zeolite " , if you will,

is not safe. There is a considerable process involved in the

development and production of NCD. There have been other zeolite

products out there, but without the micronized refining patented

process, as such with NCD, user beware. Zeolite naturally has several

minerals in it that are not health friendly. The process by which

they refine NCD strips away any unhealthy elements leaving only a

structure that is " pure " , safe and effective.

Reese

> >

> > Trying something out that has no validation can be dangerous.

>

> But..but ...Andy said it was " harmless " ??!!

>

> heheh *jib*

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

What does Andy think about NCD? Thanks

Jeanne

lvchefmel <lvchefmel@...> wrote:

Makes sense, for me to try it there would have to be some good safety data

available. I remember others saying there is a fine line between okay to ingest

zeolite and harmful ones. It would be interesting to know if anyone else is

making such a product. I do know we didn't have any negative side effects from

using the NCD that I could tell. Still it will only be used to supplement what

we are doing. I can't dismiss everything Andy has said and done, not a chance of

that happening.

rheaton_stormcast wrote:

I wouldnt recommend taking 'any ol zeolite'. The patented process of

NCD is what makes it safe and effective. " Raw zeolite " , if you will,

is not safe. There is a considerable process involved in the

development and production of NCD. There have been other zeolite

products out there, but without the micronized refining patented

process, as such with NCD, user beware. Zeolite naturally has several

minerals in it that are not health friendly. The process by which

they refine NCD strips away any unhealthy elements leaving only a

structure that is " pure " , safe and effective.

Reese

> >

> > Trying something out that has no validation can be dangerous.

>

> But..but ...Andy said it was " harmless " ??!!

>

> heheh *jib*

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Forrist,

The following comment you posted last night is interesting but I'd like to

know where the data for the " cage " structure and the affinity for drawing in

heavy metals comes from. Any studies or data on this? I hope the answer

isn't " its coming " or " we're waiting for a peer-reviewed journal to pick it

up. "

This is the kind of data that should be easy to post if there is any

substantiation to the claims. I hope there is as it is something that if

true has potential.

" The problem with power is that zeolite naturally draws heavy metals into

it's cage structure. Therefore, in nature it is normal and reasonable

that the zeolite " cage " is 60-90% full of these items naturally. What

the patented process does is empty the zeolite cage so that nothing else

remains except traces of calcium and potasium which since they have a

weak bond with the zeolite are " kicked out " and replaced with heavy

metals which have a strong affinity for zeolite. "

[Guest guest]

Forrist,

Looked at PubMed and most of the studies have little or no relevance to

human and biologic function. Some are interesting but abstracts are

generally meaningless so I will actually try to get the papers next week and

at least give it an academic review without prejudice.

Glad that tests were done on purity. Any available to review? When I teach

my classes to professionals I always stress that if a company is unwilling

to release their toxicology reports view anything they do with extreme

caution. I am sure you have them open and available for inspection.

Any studies done against other zeolite products? Any planned? Any studies

done against other known and proven chelators?

Trust me when I say I am not just focusing on your products as I do this

with every product and every claim I look at.

Mark

[ ] Re: Andy: Any opinion on Natural Cellular Defense

(NCD)?

Mark,

Unfortunately, my answer is likely to be less than satisfactory for you.

Even so here goes...

The question has multiple parts...

1. Does clinoptilolite (type of zeolite) naturally attract and remove

heavy metals? Yes. Many studies have demonstrated this.

Search Pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed> for

clinoptilolite and it will turn up 161 studies, as of today. To make

it easier though, check out a few pdfs in the files of AutismNCD. Here's

a few study titles:

* The removal of heavy metal cations by natural zeolites

* The application of natural zeolites for mercury removal: from

laboratory tests to industrial scale

* Lead(II) retention by Alfisol and clinoptilolite: cation balance

and pH effect

Question 2. Does clinoptilolite naturally collect heavy metals in nature

when in its raw form? I cannot point to a specific study but this is so.

Question 3: Does the patented processing of clinoptilolite into NCD

zeolite remove all of the naturally occuring contaminants? Yes, and

yes, the specifics of this study are not yet published. I will tell you

that those who have spoke to the independent firm who did the processing

are satisfied.

Here's a summary of what can currently be said without risking the right

to publish the material:

Extensive quantitative analysis and quality assurance testing has been

conducted on the Natural Cellular Defense by third-party laboratories.

These

tests included:

- Inductively Coupled Plasma-Optical Emission Spectroscopy (ICP-OES)

- Gas-Chromatography-Mass Spectroscopy (GC-MS)

- Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy (AAS)

- Elemental Analysis (EA)

- High Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC)

- Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC)

- Particle size analysis

- pH analysis

- Determine mg of zeolite per drop of NCD

- Microanalysis for contamination

The findings indicated the following:

- A bottle of NCD contains a suspension of highly purified and

activated

zeolite

- The activation process removes most trace elements, leaving some

residual

H2O, Na+ (sodium), K+ (potassium) and Ca+2 (calcium) in the pores

- 99.36% of particles are smaller than 5 microns

- pH was 6.13

- No detectable contaminants from the manufacturing process and no

microbial growth

The conclusions made by the researchers were:

- NCD is completely safe to use

- Because of the activation process, the adsorptive properties of NCD

are

maximized

- The small particle size ensures even the inner-most pores have the

opportunity to be used to remove unwanted toxins from the body

- Unwanted trace metals have been washed out

- NCD contains about 9 to 10 mg of zeolite per drop

Aside from the safety analysis and a review of the pertinent literature,

we

conducted several controlled clinical studies to evaluate the efficacy

of

the product. In every study (we're up to nine now) the NCD has exceeded

our

expectations. We are writing up several of the studies now and should

have

at least two publications by the end of this summer. The analysis of the

product will appear in the publications under the " Materials and

Methods "

section.

Mark, if you are serious about wanting to investigate the probable

accuracy of the statements being made then do the homework, invest the

time to read the studies in Pubmed. Other researchers involved with

autism have done so, and find the material compelling.

Forrist

-- In , " Mark Schauss " <schauss@...>

wrote:

>

> Forrist,

>

> The following comment you posted last night is interesting but I'd

like to

> know where the data for the " cage " structure and the affinity for

drawing in

> heavy metals comes from. Any studies or data on this? I hope the

answer

> isn't " its coming " or " we're waiting for a peer-reviewed journal to

pick it

> up. "

>

> This is the kind of data that should be easy to post if there is any

> substantiation to the claims. I hope there is as it is something that

if

> true has potential.

>

> " The problem with power is that zeolite naturally draws heavy metals

into

> it's cage structure. Therefore, in nature it is normal and reasonable

> that the zeolite " cage " is 60-90% full of these items naturally. What

> the patented process does is empty the zeolite cage so that nothing

else

> remains except traces of calcium and potasium which since they have a

> weak bond with the zeolite are " kicked out " and replaced with heavy

> metals which have a strong affinity for zeolite. "

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 25/05/2006 19:39:28 GMT Daylight Time,

rheaton_stormcast@... writes:

There are some parents who are claiming to be getting words after a

few weeks on NCD...compared to a few words after several

(hundrendish?) rounds. Objective? it's either true or not.

>>>>We have a word - after 107 rounds of chelation AC

style........................but the word came after 4 weeks off chelation and

on NCD, its doing

something

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 25/05/2006 22:54:40 GMT Daylight Time,

Ladyshrink111@... writes:

Maybe dangerous in the way of wasting time, on unproven substances that

delay what is really helpful....chelation.

>>>I would p[robably have never tried it but for the fact we have had to

stop the DMSA due to low minerals (which we got from EDTA not DMSA IMHO)

just told be Sam attempted a totally new word on Saturday for his

respite carer, thats 3 now....................I am going to keep giving the NCD

as I can;t find a valid reason for me not to goven the gains we have seen in

this period which may not be the NCD at all, maybe just because we have stopped

'real' chelation - past experience has shown we see the best gains when we

stop, could be the loading him up on the minerals, could be the addition of

lithium drops - just a few here and there, could be the NCD (wink)

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 26/05/2006 00:08:40 GMT Daylight Time, Ladyshri

nk111@... writes:

Well, if it is a supplement, and it did this, it is a good supplement, but

it is JUST a supplement. We have given certain supplements early on and have

had huge gains, just like reported, for example, Nordic Naturals Cod Liver

Oil increased our girls language 4 fold and we saw a lot of social gains in

addition to fixing her reversing pronoun problem, forever. Improvement for

sure, but doesn't mean it was getting any metals out.

>>>Nope for sure, but the old timers on the list know I have been here 6

years waiting for a word - I got one - with perfect articulation and intonation

- for a SLP who was as shocked as Sam was when it come out after working with

him for 2 years and I didn;t even hear it (sulk!)

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 26/05/2006 03:40:27 GMT Daylight Time,

Ladyshrink111@... writes:

Does NCD even meet the correct chemical properties of being classified as a

chelator? Specifically does it possess two thiol groups like dmsa or dmps

or ala?

>>>Nope because they say it takes the stuff pout in a different way - traps

it the cage!! (der what?)

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 26/05/2006 19:41:15 GMT Daylight Time,

Ladyshrink111@... writes:

I don't know, was Andy commenting on NCD or zeolites when he said it was

harmless?

>>>NCD - he has read their literature, or thats what I understood - they

have ben in contact with him inviting endorsement I think

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

Forrist,

I'm a little puzzled by some of you responses. They make me more suspicious

instead of less.

> Any studies done against other zeolite products? Any planned?

No. No. Of what value would that be to the company? There are no

competitors that even have a zeolite product free of contaminants. The

zeolite cage is to strong to get the junk out without destroying the

zeolite itself, at least without using the patented processing system.

MS - The benefit to the company would be to prove it is worth paying a lot

more for your product. Otherwise there is no evidence that it is. Kudos for

having no contaminants.

>Any studies

> done against other known and proven chelators?

The company has not and is not considering autism as a primary market

for them. They are far more interested in demonstrating the benefit for

the average person and a variety of other health issues and benefits

that have been observed.

They are funding many studies. In each case the study focuses on

acheiving positive health changes not the mechanics or comparisions to

other products. If these studies are to be done it will be because

independent researchers such as myself choose to take on that task.

Until this study is complete, I don't anticipate taking on any addional

studies on NCD.

MS - Then why are you on this board touting its chelation abilities for

autistic children? Positive health studies while nice, prove little. You can

throw together any combination of nutrients and herbs and come up with a

positive health study. That has been shown in a number of studies.

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

>Forrist, I think that you're on the wrong board. We all have enough

>of a burden without having hucksters hawking their unproven, expensive

>products here. I'm getting tired of reading your evasive crap.

There is a delete button if you don't like the topic...NCD has proven itself

in my house... ...don't knock it until you try it...I would and have

recomended it to anyone who would listen...the results of NCD have been

dramatic....and I have tried them all...ALA flips my son out...but I don't

knock it...it has been awesome with results for others.

Lillian

fjennings@...

fldofdrms@...

=======================================================