estrogen

[Guest guest]

The missing part may be progesterone and/or DHEA. Find a doc who really

understands hormones. www.brodabarnes.org www.womensinternational.com

Gracia

> I took the orthotricyclen for YRS, i mean 14 years.

> I felt like wonderwoman, like being on steriods or something.

> LOVED IT. Lost 26 lbs in 2 wks, and from then on was just

> a lightning bolt and unstoppable. Had 2 kids and multiple

> jobs on top of the house and slept 3 hrs a day. Nickname

> was 'smiley' and was the happiest person on earth and never

> got sick or anything. Just incredible. Felt like all woman

> too! Nails that couldn't break, 3 times the hair of most people,

> could not gain weight even trying.

> Only one time in all those years did one dr mention anything

> MAY be off...which threw me cause I felt GREAT!

> He said, " if you lose one more lb, i will put you in the hospital

> for tests. " I had not been in to see him for anything but

> a cold so I didn't know why he ever said that, no one else did?

> I was 114 lbs from 18-32 yrs old but he said for someone almost

> 5'8, this was not good. I forgot nothing and did 10 things at once.

> Now at 32 I gave birth to my daughter and got toxemia DURing

> delivery. Changed EVERYthing. Anything I was then....

> was taken from me overnight. Drs

> all said I was fine, just no spring chicken anymore.

> The goiter came and found hypo thankfully because of that.

> No matter what though, on meds, changing meds, my numbers are

> in this so called " range " that HAS to be a hoax cause everyone

> is different.

> Syn did not help but made it worse. Levo the same. Armour

> has helped TONS...but not enough. However, trying to up the

> dose to get normal feeling, started havoc so I am now back

> to first dose of it. I am at least fine now to get thru

> the day, but not like I was. Still feels like missing

> a female hormone which is why I begged for the pill back again.

> I think I thought all this time that if they give it back to me...

> I will be as before.

> Problem is now someone will let me have it...

> but I can find no 'good' info on estrogen with a hypo patient.

> A few weeks ago a lady named Shimiah was on here but i cannot

> find her. I think she thought the estrogen from restarting

> her orthtricyclen changed her pap test to cancer but not sure

> I read that right. If you are still here Shimiah, please email

> me. All I can find is info that states most all hypo patients

> in testing had been found to have overload of estrogen (or build up)

> that is not being secreted properly. Seems to me that could be

> an equation for trouble and possibly the toxin causing hypo?

>

> STill digging, but need help cause I'm afraid to take this.

> Still have to have other tests done too just don't know

> how to ask for them. Because I still have bouts of memory

> blurr, I can read and read and still wind up forgetting or

> confusing the info. Plus trying to read everything with 3 kids

> running around you is NOT easy to concentrate and really

> should NOT have to be my job like this either. I thought I was

> paying the endos for that who seem to only know the words

> " synthyroid......see you in 3 months " .

>

> If I'm stuck here and as good as it gets on armour now,

> I need to find the missing parts I could be adding.

> Things not recovered, are all things that estrogen does.

>

> Hannah

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rog,

Here's a chart giving some optimal sex hormone levels by male age groups.

I think 100 mg weekly is preferable to 200 mg/biweekly..injecting 200

mg...you're creating a large T depot for potential T > E conversion.

I was injecting 100 mg/wk in 2001...

Blood collected 8th day after last injection of 100 mg Depo-Testosterone

on...

June 4th '01

.. . .Testosterone

.. . . . . .Total . . . . . . . . 989 (241 - 827)

.. . . . . Free. . . . . . . . .42.0 (6.6 - 18.1)

July 9th '01

.. . . . ..Total . . . . . . . . .774

.. . . . . Free. . . . . . . . . 38.8

I was on injections for ~five months...with that had free T...I converted a

lot to estogen/estradiol...I went on 1 mg Arimidex/dy and switched to

AndroGel.

Maybe your PCP will order your estrogen/estradiol levels....I have my PCP

order all my sex hormone tests....

Good luck,

OR eon

[Guest guest]

Rog,

I didn't give URL for sex hormone chart...here it is...

http://www.alt-support-impotence.org/hormone_charts.htm

OR eon

[Guest guest]

> What are the signs of estrogen build up?

Gyno, I suppose. It is possible to have an elevated level without

experiencing any symptoms.

> I've been on 200 mg of T

> injectable every two weeks for at least five years. Can't find an

> endro in area and urologist says " don't worry about it " . Do have

I prefer weekly injections. Do you feel okay? Do you have any

symptoms? Why ARE you worried about it? Go ahead and have the level

taken with your next blood work. Then you'll know.

> PSA

> every year but last time T checked it was 497. Urologist says

that's

> ok. Seems like you guys feel it should be higher. Thanks Rog

When was the blood drawn? Right before your scheduled injection? A

level taken a day or two after injecting would give a very different

result. If you are getting consistent relief from your hypogonadal

symptoms, why would you need to push the level higher?

Brad

[Guest guest]

It is safe to say that I do not trust doctors anymore. Unless they

are Dr Crisler himself or a doctor who follows every last word of his

protocol. A total T of 1200 should have him chasing you around the

house. But if that is accompanied by a high E level it is

meaningless. Your husband will feel better about a week or so after

the shot was supposed to be given, then he will crash. Because his E

will fall with the T. I know some people who take Armidex or Femara

without a prescription because their doctor insists that estrogen is

not important to a man. Yeah right! not important if it is under

the lower half of the reference range. Above that, it has been

responsible for some strange symptoms. I am luck in that a 125mg

shot does not cause me any estrogen problems.

>

> Hey Guys!

>

> I've written before, I got ALOT of WONDERFUL information! I just

> wish Doctors knew as much as you all do! Anyway, last time I wrote

> that my husband was getting shots every week and it seemed like

he'd

> feel good and then feel real crappy again. Your respones said too

> much estrogen...well, I called his doctor and asked if he'd check

his

> estrogen level..he said he would. My husband went in last friday

for

> bloodwork, got the results back today and....apparently his levels

> weren't to his liking, (T) and they said no shot for a MONTH!!!

When

> I asked about his estrogen levels, they told me that they weren't

> back yet. I called the lab in the hospital and they told me that

> there wasn't an order for an estrogen level! I am sooo frustrated!

> He's like a zombie! We used to have an endrocroniglist and she

> didn't like helping my husband, and we'd gone to a urolgist and he

> told us it was all in my husbands head. WHO DO WE SEE???!?! I've

> heard that some women actually leave their husbands because of

> this...maybe now I understand why...frustration over the stupidy of

> doctors. I am trying to help my husband and they tell me that a

> certain level is too much for him when he feels good..not

great...at

> a T level of 1200 and the " DOCTORS " say he shouldn't be over 900.

> HHmmm...isn't every body different? Anyway...I'm ranting now.

> So..any help on which specialist to go to would be greatly

> appreciated! Thanks guys! If it weren't for you all...some of us

> would go on a rampage!

>

> Jen & Joe

>

[Guest guest]

You may just want to pay for the bloodwork yourself to find out exactly

where his E2 levels are and i would definitely find a new doctor.

>

> Hey Guys!

>

> I've written before, I got ALOT of WONDERFUL information! I just

> wish Doctors knew as much as you all do! Anyway, last time I wrote

> that my husband was getting shots every week and it seemed like he'd

> feel good and then feel real crappy again. Your respones said too

> much estrogen...well, I called his doctor and asked if he'd check his

> estrogen level..he said he would. My husband went in last friday for

> bloodwork, got the results back today and....apparently his levels

> weren't to his liking, (T) and they said no shot for a MONTH!!! When

> I asked about his estrogen levels, they told me that they weren't

> back yet. I called the lab in the hospital and they told me that

> there wasn't an order for an estrogen level! I am sooo frustrated!

> He's like a zombie! We used to have an endrocroniglist and she

> didn't like helping my husband, and we'd gone to a urolgist and he

> told us it was all in my husbands head. WHO DO WE SEE???!?! I've

> heard that some women actually leave their husbands because of

> this...maybe now I understand why...frustration over the stupidy of

> doctors. I am trying to help my husband and they tell me that a

> certain level is too much for him when he feels good..not great...at

> a T level of 1200 and the " DOCTORS " say he shouldn't be over 900.

> HHmmm...isn't every body different? Anyway...I'm ranting now.

> So..any help on which specialist to go to would be greatly

> appreciated! Thanks guys! If it weren't for you all...some of us

> would go on a rampage!

>

> Jen & Joe

>

[Guest guest]

Jen and Joe,

You should request a printout of the results so you can see what the test range

is also. For instance, Labcorp list a total T range of 241-827. If this is the

way your sample was tested then yes you are 50% greater than the limit. We have

differing philophies here on the forum to some extent. Some have joint issues

that feel better on high levels due to the steroid affect, while others want to

maintain in the upper third of the range (i.e. 550-800 in th range referenced

above). There is a fine line in the amount of T we process and how much we

convert to E2 or DHT. This is the part where we are all different. Your doctor

is not working with you and is dictating his protocol which is his perogative. I

would suggest that you discuss this with them again and tell him your desires

and see if they will work with you. If they pull the " no I am God " position, say

see you later and investigate getting a new doctor. I would work towards lower

doses more frequenly (every 7 days) and determine

if you need to adjust your E2 or DHT.

Good Luck - Arkansas

sikdogg <sikdogg@...> wrote:

You may just want to pay for the bloodwork yourself to find out exactly

where his E2 levels are and i would definitely find a new doctor.

>

> Hey Guys!

>

> I've written before, I got ALOT of WONDERFUL information! I just

> wish Doctors knew as much as you all do! Anyway, last time I wrote

> that my husband was getting shots every week and it seemed like he'd

> feel good and then feel real crappy again. Your respones said too

> much estrogen...well, I called his doctor and asked if he'd check his

> estrogen level..he said he would. My husband went in last friday for

> bloodwork, got the results back today and....apparently his levels

> weren't to his liking, (T) and they said no shot for a MONTH!!! When

> I asked about his estrogen levels, they told me that they weren't

> back yet. I called the lab in the hospital and they told me that

> there wasn't an order for an estrogen level! I am sooo frustrated!

> He's like a zombie! We used to have an endrocroniglist and she

> didn't like helping my husband, and we'd gone to a urolgist and he

> told us it was all in my husbands head. WHO DO WE SEE???!?! I've

> heard that some women actually leave their husbands because of

> this...maybe now I understand why...frustration over the stupidy of

> doctors. I am trying to help my husband and they tell me that a

> certain level is too much for him when he feels good..not great...at

> a T level of 1200 and the " DOCTORS " say he shouldn't be over 900.

> HHmmm...isn't every body different? Anyway...I'm ranting now.

> So..any help on which specialist to go to would be greatly

> appreciated! Thanks guys! If it weren't for you all...some of us

> would go on a rampage!

>

> Jen & Joe

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 05:44:21 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Hey Guys!

>

> I've written before, I got ALOT of WONDERFUL information! I just

>wish Doctors knew as much as you all do! Anyway, last time I wrote

>that my husband was getting shots every week and it seemed like he'd

>feel good and then feel real crappy again. Your respones said too

>much estrogen...well, I called his doctor and asked if he'd check his

>estrogen level..he said he would. My husband went in last friday for

>bloodwork, got the results back today and....apparently his levels

>weren't to his liking, (T) and they said no shot for a MONTH!!! When

>I asked about his estrogen levels, they told me that they weren't

>back yet. I called the lab in the hospital and they told me that

>there wasn't an order for an estrogen level! I am sooo frustrated!

>He's like a zombie! We used to have an endrocroniglist and she

>didn't like helping my husband, and we'd gone to a urolgist and he

>told us it was all in my husbands head. WHO DO WE SEE???!?! I've

>heard that some women actually leave their husbands because of

>this...maybe now I understand why...frustration over the stupidy of

>doctors. I am trying to help my husband and they tell me that a

>certain level is too much for him when he feels good..not great...at

>a T level of 1200 and the " DOCTORS " say he shouldn't be over 900.

>HHmmm...isn't every body different? Anyway...I'm ranting now.

>So..any help on which specialist to go to would be greatly

>appreciated! Thanks guys! If it weren't for you all...some of us

>would go on a rampage!

Hang in there! You can work this out. He needs the E2 test

absolutely. With T levels so high and his symptoms his E2 is almost

certainly very high also.

He really shouldn't have T levels above 900. The doctor is right on

that. But a month off is hard and likely unnecessary if they'd look at

his E2 levels. You need to insist on this. Print off Dr. s

therapy (can someone provide the link?) and bring it to him he may

begin to understand. The role E2 plays in men is only recently

beginning to be understood. And his T levels should not be allowed to

drop below 500.

I'm betting he's got sore tits and sensitive nipples from the high E2.

in addition to all the lethargy and fogginess.

There are some things you can do to bring down the E2. But you really

should get a test first to confirm the problem. Once you get the test

try to find a source for a health supplement called DIMM. This

converts e2 to another form of estrogen that the body can dispel

easier. He should see some help with it. But with such high T levels

I'd bet his E2 levels are so high this won't do it alone. He'll likely

need a prescription for arimidex.

Hang in there.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 07:49:14 -0000, you wrote:

>ate: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 07:49:14 -0000

>

>It is safe to say that I do not trust doctors anymore. Unless they

>are Dr Crisler himself or a doctor who follows every last word of his

>protocol.

Ah found it.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/crisler/testosterone-replacement-therapy.h\

tm

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 17:46:22 -0000, you wrote:

>You may just want to pay for the bloodwork yourself to find out exactly

>where his E2 levels are and i would definitely find a new doctor.

If you do specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

Well, We live in Tennessee around Nashville. We are going to see a uroligist

next friday..his name is Dr. Heffington. He said he's treated another guy

like Joe and he'd be glad to take him on. Well...the old doctors office called

today and said that they called the lab and got them to do the estrogen test

and they would call me when the results came in....I got suspicious and called

the lab....turns out..blood that has been drawn is only good for 48 hours...he

had his blood drawn last friday. The nurse lied to me about the lab redoing

the test. I don't understand the point in lying to me but whatever. I don't

have his current results. They won't tell me what his level was, only that I'm

not allowed to give him a shot for a month (I give them to him..he's a big

baby:) All I have is when he first got tested. These numbers are from 07/30/03

and his TSH was 0.832, his T4 was 6.6., his T3 uptake was 29, his Cortisol was

7.6 and his Prolactin was 7.2 (American) and then in 4/22/04 he was tested

some more and his testosterone was 155. and thats all he's been tested for.

They

keep checking his serum testosterone levels monthy or every 2 months and he

skyrockets and then goes WAY back down. He does have the breasts...don't tell

him that I said that...he's VERY insecure about them..I feel that they are a

part of him so...big deal but anyway..he said they aren't sensitive but they are

there and thats enough for him. Oh found another blood test, this time in

6/11/04 and his testosterone was 174. But this was with the gel and he NEVER

put

it on..so he does better with the shots since I can do that for him..he

complains alot but he said they hurt like a B$%ch. You guys are so much

help...Thanks so much.

Jen and Joe

[Guest guest]

Good luck Jen and Joe keep us posted.

Phil

JnWari@... wrote:

Well, We live in Tennessee around Nashville. We are going to see a uroligist

next friday..his name is Dr. Heffington. He said he's treated another guy

like Joe and he'd be glad to take him on. Well...the old doctors office called

today and said that they called the lab and got them to do the estrogen test

and they would call me when the results came in....I got suspicious and called

the lab....turns out..blood that has been drawn is only good for 48 hours...he

had his blood drawn last friday. The nurse lied to me about the lab redoing

the test. I don't understand the point in lying to me but whatever. I don't

have his current results. They won't tell me what his level was, only that I'm

not allowed to give him a shot for a month (I give them to him..he's a big

baby:) All I have is when he first got tested. These numbers are from 07/30/03

and his TSH was 0.832, his T4 was 6.6., his T3 uptake was 29, his Cortisol was

7.6 and his Prolactin was 7.2 (American) and then in 4/22/04 he was tested

some more and his testosterone was 155. and thats all he's been tested for.

They

keep checking his serum testosterone levels monthy or every 2 months and he

skyrockets and then goes WAY back down. He does have the breasts...don't tell

him that I said that...he's VERY insecure about them..I feel that they are a

part of him so...big deal but anyway..he said they aren't sensitive but they are

there and thats enough for him. Oh found another blood test, this time in

6/11/04 and his testosterone was 174. But this was with the gel and he NEVER

put

it on..so he does better with the shots since I can do that for him..he

complains alot but he said they hurt like a B$%ch. You guys are so much

help...Thanks so much.

Jen and Joe

[Guest guest]

>

> What can a person to do to rid the body of estrogen. I know carlesen

> cod liver oil is best to rid the body of estrogen. Their are other

> supplements that are, flax seed but I take black currant oil. They

took > talk about magnesum and calicum citrate. Calicum D-glucarate is

> another one that is good. Progestrone oil topically.

==>, Carlson's is not a good cod liver oil to take - which I

believe I have let you know about previously (they've added synthetic

A & D to it). The recommended cod liver oils are: Garden of Life,

Radiant Life and Blue Ice.

==>The entire diet and supplements detox and help your body get rid

of estrogens, and it also corrects the cell membranes so that

hormones produced by the body can get to where they belong, and so

cells can communicate properly with each other.

==>Black current contains omega 6, but you get plenty of it in the

diet, and flax contains omega 3 and 6 which are in a form that

requires conversion by the body, which most candida sufferers cannot

do - instead take cod liver oil in the winter and fish oils in the

summer per my article.

==>Progesterone oil is also not recommended - it often leads to too

high of levels of progesterone - do a search on it at www.mercola.com

>

Bee

[Guest guest]

>

> I know this is off topic Bee, but I wanted to ask if you know

anything about vaginal estrogen. I had my yearly check up yesterday and

the doctor suggested that for me. She said it doesn't enter your system

at all. I told her I would have to check it out. Hope it's ok if I ask

> about it here.

==>No estrogen is going to help you. Getting rid of the candida does

because candida toxins will no longer be making your body's cell go

rigid so that hormones can get into them where they belong, and where

they can do their job properly. Read the information in the Women's

Health folder.

Bee

[Guest guest]

anyone know what specifically would cause estrogen in a 4 year old girl to

escalate?

chemicals, mercury, etc...?

this unfortunately was on her latest labs.

Alison

---------------------------------

Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get

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[Guest guest]

Hi Alison,

How many animal products, incluidng milk, does she consume? If they're not

organic, they're full of hormones.

S S

--- On Mon 11/27, Alison Schwartz < alidavemail@... >

<p>anyone know what specifically would cause estrogen in a 4 year old girl to

escalate?<br>

chemicals, mercury, etc...?<br>

this unfortunately was on her latest labs.<br>

<br>

Alison<br>

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[Guest guest]

Organochlorines mimic estrogens

[ ] estrogen

anyone know what specifically would cause estrogen in a 4 year old girl to

escalate?

chemicals, mercury, etc...?

this unfortunately was on her latest labs.

Alison

---------------------------------

Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get

things done faster.