Re: OT - How to properly test IQ for autistics

[Guest guest]

Hi, I may get a lot of flack for this but, in my personal, very humble opinion

and as an SLP who works in a school system, I do not know of any tests that are

appropriate for testing the IQ for individuals w/ Autism. It would be unethical

and invalid for a psychologist to test a spanish speaking child with an english

IQ test but for some reason, it is common practice to administer IQ tests that

have been standardized on non-autistic children to children w/ Autism. It is

ridiculous, frustrating and unethical in my opinion.

Selavka <stacylynncollins@...> wrote: How/what type of tests

would give a proper IQ test for a child on the spectrum? My son who will be 10

soon, was given tests last year by a psychiatrist which the school sent us to.

In the report, in addition to my son being autistic (my son had been labeled

autistic since 3 years old) they labeled him mentally retarded. I know this

is totally not true. He is extremely bright, but I am sure with the tests they

used, they could not get an accurate IQ. After watching the show on the news

the other night about the young lady going to college, it made me begin to

think. My concern for him being labeled mentally retarded is that since this

diagnosis a year ago, I have noticed things with the school that are starting

to add up, for example the latest is I was told my son is participating in a

recycling program. He spends 20 minutes a day going around the school picking

up empty water bottles to put in the

recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

could be spent doing something more constructive. They told me they are

working on job related/life skills. Such as how to deal with money - such as

buying an item and giving the correct amount. My son is almost 10. Shouldn't

they work on these items when he is in high school? I just think the school is

just pushing him under the carpet. My husband disagrees with me. He thinks

that 20 minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all the little things

they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a difference. We haven't

had one PPT this school year. I have monthly meetings, but it makes me think

now that he is mentally retarded, why bother educating him. I don't rely on

the school to educate my son, I work with him as well. Any input would be

appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly tested.

-

[Guest guest]

, I agree and I'll take it one step further: I don't think I Q tests

are appropriate for anyone. They are very class, culture and language biased,

and ignore things like talent or innate ablility. If a child has difficulty

doing some motor sequence he/she is marked low, but if that same child can play

Motzart on the piano, it doesn't count. Blah!

Meade <jenniferdmeade@...> wrote: Hi, I may get a lot of flack

for this but, in my personal, very humble opinion and as an SLP who works in a

school system, I do not know of any tests that are appropriate for testing the

IQ for individuals w/ Autism. It would be unethical and invalid for a

psychologist to test a spanish speaking child with an english IQ test but for

some reason, it is common practice to administer IQ tests that have been

standardized on non-autistic children to children w/ Autism. It is ridiculous,

frustrating and unethical in my opinion.

Selavka <stacylynncollins@...> wrote: How/what type of tests

would give a proper IQ test for a child on the spectrum? My son who will be

10 soon, was given tests last year by a psychiatrist which the school sent us

to. In the report, in addition to my son being autistic (my son had been

labeled autistic since 3 years old) they labeled him mentally retarded. I

know this is totally not true. He is extremely bright, but I am sure with

the tests they used, they could not get an accurate IQ. After watching the

show on the news the other night about the young lady going to college, it

made me begin to think. My concern for him being labeled mentally retarded is

that since this diagnosis a year ago, I have noticed things with the school

that are starting to add up, for example the latest is I was told my son is

participating in a recycling program. He spends 20 minutes a day going around

the school picking up empty water

bottles to put in the

recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

could be spent doing something more constructive. They told me they are

working on job related/life skills. Such as how to deal with money - such as

buying an item and giving the correct amount. My son is almost 10. Shouldn't

they work on these items when he is in high school? I just think the school

is just pushing him under the carpet. My husband disagrees with me. He

thinks that 20 minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all the little

things they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a difference. We

haven't had one PPT this school year. I have monthly meetings, but it makes

me think now that he is mentally retarded, why bother educating him. I don't

rely on the school to educate my son, I work with him as well. Any input

would be appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly tested.

-

[Guest guest]

I remember reading that when IQ tests were initially designed (I

believe to be used by the military to determine who would make " good

officers " ), women consistently averaged 10 points higher than men.

Somehow they redid the test (or the scoring) to make this frightful

fact disappear.

Anne

How/what type of

tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on the spectrum? My

son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year by a

psychiatrist which the school sent us to. In the report, in

addition to my son being autistic (my son had been labeled

autistic since 3 years old) they labeled him mentally retarded. I

know this is totally not true. He is extremely bright, but I am

sure with the tests they used, they could not get an accurate

IQ. After watching the show on the news the other night about the

young lady going to college, it made me begin to think. My

concern for him being labeled mentally retarded is that since this

diagnosis a year ago, I have noticed things with the school that

are starting to add up, for example the latest is I was told my

son is participating in a recycling program. He spends 20 minutes

a day going around the school picking up empty water

> bottles to put in the

> recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

> could be spent doing something more constructive. They told

me they are working on job related/life skills. Such as how to

deal with money - such as buying an item and giving the correct

amount. My son is almost 10. Shouldn't they work on these items

when he is in high school? I just think the school is just

pushing him under the carpet. My husband disagrees with me. He

thinks that 20 minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all

the little things they have incorporated over the last year, it

makes a difference. We haven't had one PPT this school year. I

have monthly meetings, but it makes me think now that he is

mentally retarded, why bother educating him. I don't rely on the

school to educate my son, I work with him as well. Any input

would be appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly

tested.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just my opinion ... and I'm not an expert ....... it seems that they are

preparing your son for a career in waste management (garbage man) and in my

opinion they are limiting his potential. They have no idea what your son's IQ

is.

They have no idea how to test it. But you know what? It doesn't matter what

they think his IQ is. He will prove himself to be absolutely magnificent

because you work with him. You will be his best teacher in every subject and on

every level of life. Personally, I think that for them to have him spend 20

minutes a day picking up trash is insulting. Ask them to please have the

brightest student with the highest grades accompany your son in his trash

picking-up mission. See what they have to say about that! I wonder how they

would

respond if you asked for the children of the school board members to accompany

your son on his very important job.

In a message dated 5/19/2006 7:08:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

_Shepard@... writes:

For folks on the spectrum the testing environment itself can cause

inaccurate results. What are his IEP goals. You have a right to help

determine

those and to take a lawyer along with you if necessary. You can work on

recycling with him at home. What academics are they working on?

S S

How/what type of tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on the

spectrum? My son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year by a

psychiatrist which the school sent us to. In the report, in addition to my

son being

autistic (my son had been labeled autistic since 3 years old) they labeled

him mentally retarded. I know this is totally not true. He is extremely

bright, but I am sure with the tests they used, they could not get an accurate

IQ. After watching the show on the news the other night about the young

lady going to college, it made me begin to think. My concern for him being

labeled mentally retarded is that since this diagnosis a year ago, I have

noticed things with the school that are starting to add up, for example the

latest is I was told my son is participating in a recycling program. He

spends

20 minutes a day going around the school picking up empty water bottles to

put in the recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

could be spent doing something more constructive. They told me they are

working on job related/life skills. Such as how to deal with money - such as

buying an item and giving the correct amount. My son is almost 10.

Shouldn't they work on these items when he is in high school? I just think

the

school is just pushing him under the carpet. My husband disagrees with me.

He thinks that 20 minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all the

little things they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a

difference. We haven't had one PPT this school year. I have monthly

meetings, but

it makes me think now that he is mentally retarded, why bother educating him.

I don't rely on the school to educate my son, I work with him as well.

Any input would be appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly

tested.

-

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

For folks on the spectrum the testing environment itself can cause inaccurate

results. What are his IEP goals. You have a right to help determine those and

to take a lawyer along with you if necessary. You can work on recycling with

him at home. What academics are they working on?

S S

How/what type of tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on the 

spectrum?  My son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year  by a

psychiatrist which the school sent us to.  In the report, in  addition to my son

being autistic (my son had been labeled autistic  since 3 years old) they

labeled him mentally retarded.  I know  this is totally not true.  He is

extremely bright, but I am sure  with the tests they used, they could not get an

accurate IQ.   After watching the show on the news the other night about the

young  lady going to college, it made me begin to think.  My concern for  him

being labeled mentally retarded is that since this diagnosis a year  ago, I have

noticed things with the school that are starting to add up,  for example the

latest is I was told my son is participating in a  recycling program.  He spends

20 minutes a day going around the  school picking up empty water bottles to put

in the recycle  containers.  To me, this is 20 minutes that<BR>

could be spent doing  something more constructive.  They told me they are

working on job  related/life skills.  Such as how to deal with money - such as 

buying an item and giving the correct amount.  My son is almost  10.  Shouldn't

they work on these items when he is in high  school?  I just think the school is

just pushing him under the  carpet.  My husband disagrees with me.  He thinks

that 20  minutes a day is no big deal.  When you add up all the little  things

they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a  difference.  We haven't

had one PPT this school year.  I have  monthly meetings, but it makes me think

now that he is mentally  retarded, why bother educating him.  I don't rely on

the school to  educate my son, I work with him as well.  Any input would be 

appreciated.  I really want to have my son's IQ properly tested.<BR>

  <BR>

  -<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Just my opinion ... and I'm not an expert ....... it seems that they

are

> preparing your son for a career in waste management (garbage man)

and in my

> opinion they are limiting his potential.

Wow do I disagree with this. 20 minutes a day picking up recyclables

is community service, and you could argue (I guess I am!) that nobody

needs a sense of community more than an ASD kid. I'd be happy for

either of my children to be responsible for a job like that.

Nell

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/19/2006 9:09:55 PM Central Daylight Time,

Rabold92@... writes:

I think that for them to have him spend 20

minutes a day picking up trash is insulting. Ask them to please have the

brightest student with the highest grades accompany your son in his trash

picking-up mission. See what they have to say about that! I wonder how they

would

respond if you asked for the children of the school board members to

accompany

your son on his very important job.

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more with . IQ tests simply don't seem to

capture the autistic mind. And by saying that I'm not trying to make

autism sound romantic, but I do think that the autistic mind is

extremely complex, with its abilities and disabilities. Children

with autism do not use language the same way others do, they

communicate differently than others do; they do not or cannot follow

instructions; they will not focus if they're not motivated and

cannot focus if they're distracted or can't process sensory data and

it goes on and on...

You need to tell your school that your son is NOT mentally retarded,

that he's autistic, and that tests can NOT measure his IQ. Also tell

them to stop wasting your son's mind. Be aggressive with them. I

know this is not much help but their ignorance is causing a lot of

problems for you and your child.

They either need to get off the IQ testing thing and start finding

out what your son's strengths are and use them to work on his

weaknesses, or use his IQ test as baseline and do tests every year

to see how much progress he's made rather than labeling him with it.

That's what IQ tests are good for anyway. I don't even think they're

useful for neurotypicals. They're only good if they are used

comparatively to see if educators are doing their job and helping

children gain more cognitive skills every year.

Beti

How/what type of

tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on the spectrum? My

son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year by a

psychiatrist which the school sent us to. In the report, in

addition to my son being autistic (my son had been labeled autistic

since 3 years old) they labeled him mentally retarded. I know this

is totally not true. He is extremely bright, but I am sure with

the tests they used, they could not get an accurate IQ. After

watching the show on the news the other night about the young lady

going to college, it made me begin to think. My concern for him

being labeled mentally retarded is that since this diagnosis a year

ago, I have noticed things with the school that are starting to add

up, for example the latest is I was told my son is participating in

a recycling program. He spends 20 minutes a day going around the

school picking up empty water bottles to put in the

> recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

> could be spent doing something more constructive. They told me

they are working on job related/life skills. Such as how to deal

with money - such as buying an item and giving the correct amount.

My son is almost 10. Shouldn't they work on these items when he is

in high school? I just think the school is just pushing him under

the carpet. My husband disagrees with me. He thinks that 20

minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all the little

things they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a

difference. We haven't had one PPT this school year. I have

monthly meetings, but it makes me think now that he is mentally

retarded, why bother educating him. I don't rely on the school to

educate my son, I work with him as well. Any input would be

appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly tested.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> How/what type of tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on

the spectrum? My son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year

by a psychiatrist which the school sent us to.

My son, at age 3-1/2, was given a verbal " MR " diagnosis by the

pedneuro [all she wrote on the official dx was " classic Kanner's

autism " , severe, low functioning, but she told me verbally that he was

MR]. He was not testable for IQ, but I was told his IQ was probably

20-30. He assessed as developmentally 0-3 months.

I had my son reassessed in March, he was age 10. He is now at

developmental level K.0-1.0 [age approx 5yrs], with an IQ of low 80s.

Given the gains he has made just since March, I believe he will test

with an IQ in the normal range [90-110] next year.

>>My concern for him being labeled mentally retarded is that since

this diagnosis a year ago, I have noticed things with the school that

are starting to add up,

This is one of the main reasons that people contact me about

homeschooling their child. In fact, it is the main reason I did not

even try to put my son into a public program. With his official dx,

it would have required a huge fight to get him anything but " daily

living skills " , and I don't know that I would have been able to find

experts who would have testified that he was capable of anything

except daily living skills.

>>for example the latest is I was told my son is participating in a

recycling program. He spends 20 minutes a day going around the

school picking up empty water bottles to put in the recycle

containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that could be spent doing

something more constructive.

Are the NT kids doing this also? Is it written in his IEP?

>>They told me they are working on job related/life skills. Such as

how to deal with money - such as buying an item and giving the

correct amount. My son is almost 10. Shouldn't they work on these

items when he is in high school?

This really depends on what his IEP says.

>>I don't rely on the school to educate my son,

Good! Maybe it is time to pull him out entirely?

Dana

[Guest guest]

,

It's good you don't rely on your PS to " educate " your son because that is

not their goal. They say it is. They put a great amount of effort into

looking as if that is their goal (IEP), but in reality, can they? No. The

best bit of " truth " , when I had my son in PS, that I ever received from an

OT was, " our goal is to make his behavior educatable " . That's when the

light went on for me. " Educatable " means behavior - compliance, obedience,

fitting into a classroom without being disruptive, etc. That's a far cry

from " educating " . Educating is finding out what their interests are, how

their minds work, what motivates them, etc. They don't have that kind of

time, nor, I'm convinced, do they have the skills. Only a parent who lives

with the child, who has an innate sense of the child, has those skills.

They're clueless.

Sharon

On 5/19/06, Selavka <stacylynncollins@...> wrote:

>

> I don't rely on the school to educate my son, I work with him as

> well. Any input would be appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ

> properly tested.

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son has had IQ tests but they must have looked at the results

differently. They paid more attention to the non verbal scores and

showed that the IQ showed less on the verbal parts since he does have

problems with expressive and receptive language. There was a new IQ

test out that works well for autistic kids and apparently has shown that

they do have high IQ's. I can't find the name of the test, but it was

just posted a couple months ago. Maybe someone else has it.

M

[ ] Re: OT - How to properly test IQ for autistics

I couldn't agree more with . IQ tests simply don't seem to

capture the autistic mind. And by saying that I'm not trying to make

autism sound romantic, but I do think that the autistic mind is

extremely complex, with its abilities and disabilities. Children

with autism do not use language the same way others do, they

communicate differently than others do; they do not or cannot follow

instructions; they will not focus if they're not motivated and

cannot focus if they're distracted or can't process sensory data and

it goes on and on...

You need to tell your school that your son is NOT mentally retarded,

that he's autistic, and that tests can NOT measure his IQ. Also tell

them to stop wasting your son's mind. Be aggressive with them. I

know this is not much help but their ignorance is causing a lot of

problems for you and your child.

They either need to get off the IQ testing thing and start finding

out what your son's strengths are and use them to work on his

weaknesses, or use his IQ test as baseline and do tests every year

to see how much progress he's made rather than labeling him with it.

That's what IQ tests are good for anyway. I don't even think they're

useful for neurotypicals. They're only good if they are used

comparatively to see if educators are doing their job and helping

children gain more cognitive skills every year.

Beti

How/what type of

tests would give a proper IQ test for a child on the spectrum? My

son who will be 10 soon, was given tests last year by a

psychiatrist which the school sent us to. In the report, in

addition to my son being autistic (my son had been labeled autistic

since 3 years old) they labeled him mentally retarded. I know this

is totally not true. He is extremely bright, but I am sure with

the tests they used, they could not get an accurate IQ. After

watching the show on the news the other night about the young lady

going to college, it made me begin to think. My concern for him

being labeled mentally retarded is that since this diagnosis a year

ago, I have noticed things with the school that are starting to add

up, for example the latest is I was told my son is participating in

a recycling program. He spends 20 minutes a day going around the

school picking up empty water bottles to put in the

> recycle containers. To me, this is 20 minutes that

> could be spent doing something more constructive. They told me

they are working on job related/life skills. Such as how to deal

with money - such as buying an item and giving the correct amount.

My son is almost 10. Shouldn't they work on these items when he is

in high school? I just think the school is just pushing him under

the carpet. My husband disagrees with me. He thinks that 20

minutes a day is no big deal. When you add up all the little

things they have incorporated over the last year, it makes a

difference. We haven't had one PPT this school year. I have

monthly meetings, but it makes me think now that he is mentally

retarded, why bother educating him. I don't rely on the school to

educate my son, I work with him as well. Any input would be

appreciated. I really want to have my son's IQ properly tested.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>Ask them to please have the brightest student with the highest grades

accompany your son in his trash picking-up mission. See what they have to

say about that!

---

I see the problem a little differently:

They pay janitors to do that work. Making a " retarded " child pick up trash

is unpaid child labor -- thus slave labor. And the bright kids are already

routinely forced into slave labor at school as teacher's aids and unpaid

tutors for the other kids while their own educational needs for more

challenging work is utterly ignored, not too different from the situation

this child is in.

History of IQ tests:

They began in France as a test to figure out which kids were ready for

kindergarten because there were huge differences between what rural and

urban kids knew and rural kids often lacked a birth certificate, so they

were often of indeterminate age. This initial test was never intended to

measure " intelligence " , only school readiness for kids with diverse

backgrounds whose ages were not necessarily known. In the early part of the

20th century, the results of IQ tests on immigrants to America who spoke

English as a second language were used to argue that these people were all

" retarded " and thus not suited for better employment than as servants and so

forth -- not too different from the assumption of having this child pick up

trash at school. Of course the social issue of the time of having a shortage

of servants couldn't possibly have been a motivating factor in such

pronouncements, now could it? <rolls eyes> I'm sure someone who knows more

about the history of IQ tests could give an even more scathing review. I'm

sure because I have heard people do exactly that.

The problem with IQ tests:

IQ tests are tools. Some of them are better suited to specific purposes

than others. But none of them is better than the skill, knowledge, and

experience of the person weilding this tool. The qualifications of the

person administering and interpretting the test generally matters more than

which test is given. Especially for kids who are bright, disabled in some

way, or " twice exceptional " (bright AND disabled in some way), seeking out a

qualified tester is extremely important. I don't know where you can go to

find qualified tester's specifically for ASD because my background is in

dealing with gifted kids. Hoagie's Gifted Page lists qualified

professionals for dealing with gifted kids. I don't know of a similar

resource for the ASD community. Another place to look is Meredith Warshaw's

site, Uniquely Gifted. That site is specifically dedicated to the needs of

twice exceptional kids.

Education:

Since you are already teaching your child while the school is not, you could

consider homeschooling. In some cases, the school is not only wasting the

child's day -- and thus wasting valuable time that could be put to good use

-- but is also doing harm to the child's ability to function well and then

the parents spend all their time and energy in a futile attempt to undo the

damage, further wasting time that could be spent on actual progress. This

was the case with my kids. Removing my children from a hostile,

unaccomodating, unproductive environment allowed them to blossom.

Homeschooling allowed me to customize their educational experience to their

specific needs and make more progress on their week areas in the first year

than could have been made in 13 years of public school. It also allowed

them to have more positive social experiences instead of the negative social

experiences they had at school. And this ended up being the best means to

teach them why social skills mattered -- because they had a reason to desire

to learn them, not simply " orders " from on high to learn something which

made no sense to them.

FWIW, I think it was Isaac Newton who was declared " retarded " by the school

and his mother pulled him out and taught him herself. So much for

" retarded " .

--

Michele in Limbo (formerly in California)

talithamichele@...

Visit Michele's World!

http://www.califmichele.com

" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. "

-- Albert Einstein