Re: New - aluminum / other questions

July 19, 2006

,

Welcome. I cannot answer all of your questions but will help with

what I can.

Adrenal stress is indicative of mercury. As are low minerals and

many things you mention. Some hair tests do not show deranged

minerals. If your child was vaccinated, he received mercury through

those judging by his age, they were still using thimerosal vaccines

up until 2001. If you had metal fillings while pregnant/nursing. If

he has metal fillings. If he eats fish, or you did while pregnant.

If he was exposed to any of those, then he likely has mercury.

I too have the adrenal function problem. As does my 11 year old with

mercury. So this is very charactaristic for mercury poisoning.

I am not sure what is going on with the muscle tissue. This sounds

metabolic. He has been screened for neuromuscular disorders? There

are metabolic muscle disorders. Is he getting enough protein?

It appears his test was not done at DDI, so the counting rules

cannot be used. However, his minerals being a mess, and the other

things you mention...look like mercury.

The sodium/potassium problem is also indicative of mercury.

As for aluminum, my son is high in this as well as other metals.

There are so many sources of this..it is difficult to track.

Including the newer vaccines. But it is in foods, especially baking

powder which is practically in everything these days. Most here are

using DMSA to chelate metals as well as Alpha Lipoic Acid for

mercury. Some have used EDTA. I was not confortable using it with

the research I did. However, I think that your right to want to

remove the aluminum. This is bad stuff for the brain and can

definitely affect moods/behaviors. I would suggest reading the files

section here to learn more of the chelation protocol many of us use,

and the supplements. This is how you would treat him for mercury

poisoning, it would also get rid of the aluminum.

The more I think over what you wrote..the more this smells like

mercury to me. Please read all you can in the files and the link to

Moria's website. There really are not a lot of tests that show

anything or are reliable to prove mercury. You could try a urine

porphyrins test. If too many porphyrins are in the urine this is

cause by mercury. But please do not do any metal challenge testing.

This is dangerous and can make him sicker.

>

> Hello all,

>

> I'm new here; I spent quite a while browsing through past posts

and

> linked sites but I think it just added more questions! Hopefully

> these won't be too obvious but feel free to point me to a link or

> archive search.

>

> My son is 9 with anxiety, mood, and energy level problems which

were

> all greatly intensified after a lot of stress last December.

We've

> done metabolic profiles, urine amino acids, and hair mineral

analysis

> (through Analytical Research Labs). We have him on a fairly

intense

> supplementation regime which is helping quite a lot.

>

> The main thing that testing revealed is that his adrenals are very

> messed up, and that he is using up his own muscles for energy. He

> has a very low sodium to potassium ratio that is concerning, and

is

> being addressed through the supplements.

>

> The hair test also showed that he has some aluminum toxicity. It

did

> not show any others. I read the FAQ about the counting rules, but

> they don't apply to this lab. Although he is across the board low

on

> all the minerals except very high potassium, he doesn't match any

of

> these symptoms except the " all-low " . (It also seems the all-low

> could be because of the adrenal problem). The doc we are using,

who

> I really trust quite a lot, offered to prescribe DetoxMax in small

> doses (along with Vit C and some other things) for the aluminum,

> because I want to do something about it now, since it is summer

and

> much easier to introduce new things than during the school

> year. DetoxMax is a more gentle, better absorbed form of oral

EDTA.

>

> >Not everyone who is mercury toxic has these patterns, but they

are

> >reasonably common:

> > * calcium that is vastly elevated. Usually the lithium is

very low, too.

> > * a really characteristic pattern of very high calcium and

> > magnesium, along with very low sodium and potassium. This isn't

> > present in that many cases but is common enough to mention

since,

> > when present, it suggests mercury poisoning, or something else

> > interfering with adrenal function.

> > * an " all low " pattern is quite common for mercury toxic

people

> > even though many have more than 5 elements above the midline.

This

> > has a more than 1 in 44 chance of being random, but is not what

you

> > expect to see.

> So, a few questions. Is there something that would be better or

> easier to detox Aluminum? I've read the things saying remove

sources

> from the diet and it should go away...but he doesn't have that

many

> sources of it, so my guess is that he has some sort of inability

to

> get rid of it on his own. (Which we are trying to address with

the

> supplements).

>

> From this information, is there any way to guess whether he has

> hidden mercury toxicity?

>

> Any ideas for the adrenal fatigue? Capsules (and not too many)

are

> preferable, or something I can easily mix with liquid.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Stroyan

> www.empathic-discipline.com

> Click here to email me directly:

> <mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

>

July 20, 2006

>

> Hello all,

>

> I'm new here; I spent quite a while browsing through past posts and

> linked sites but I think it just added more questions! Hopefully

> these won't be too obvious but feel free to point me to a link or

> archive search.

>

> My son is 9 with anxiety, mood, and energy level problems which were

> all greatly intensified after a lot of stress last December. We've

> done metabolic profiles, urine amino acids, and hair mineral analysis

> (through Analytical Research Labs). We have him on a fairly intense

> supplementation regime which is helping quite a lot.

>

> The main thing that testing revealed is that his adrenals are very

> messed up, and that he is using up his own muscles for energy. He

> has a very low sodium to potassium ratio that is concerning, and is

> being addressed through the supplements.

Sounds like his thyroid may be in bad shape, too. Low sodium to

potassium ratio is an indicator of thyroid problems. Good idea

to do some thyroid testing - free T3, free T4, TSH, and thyroid

antibodies.

> The hair test also showed that he has some aluminum toxicity. It did

> not show any others. I read the FAQ about the counting rules, but

Elevation of aluminum, all by itself, raises some suspicion about

the possibility of hidden mercury (even if the mercury appears very

low).

> they don't apply to this lab. Although he is across the board low on

> all the minerals except very high potassium, he doesn't match any of

> these symptoms except the " all-low " . (It also seems the all-low

> could be because of the adrenal problem). The doc we are using, who

The counting rules can be used with an ARL test, but only for

adults. They do not use age-based reference ranges. The lack of

appropriate ranges will make the mineral levels appear lower

than they really are. Might still be an all-low pattern, though.

> I really trust quite a lot, offered to prescribe DetoxMax in small

> doses (along with Vit C and some other things) for the aluminum,

> because I want to do something about it now, since it is summer and

> much easier to introduce new things than during the school

> year. DetoxMax is a more gentle, better absorbed form of oral EDTA.

EDTA is not a good choice when the possibility of mercury exists.

Aluminum is reduced best by removing exposure and chelating mercury.

> >Not everyone who is mercury toxic has these patterns, but they are

> >reasonably common:

> > * calcium that is vastly elevated. Usually the lithium is very

low, too.

> > * a really characteristic pattern of very high calcium and

> > magnesium, along with very low sodium and potassium. This isn't

> > present in that many cases but is common enough to mention since,

> > when present, it suggests mercury poisoning, or something else

> > interfering with adrenal function.

> > * an " all low " pattern is quite common for mercury toxic people

> > even though many have more than 5 elements above the midline. This

> > has a more than 1 in 44 chance of being random, but is not what you

> > expect to see.

> So, a few questions. Is there something that would be better or

> easier to detox Aluminum? I've read the things saying remove sources

> from the diet and it should go away...but he doesn't have that many

> sources of it, so my guess is that he has some sort of inability to

> get rid of it on his own. (Which we are trying to address with the

> supplements).

>

> From this information, is there any way to guess whether he has

> hidden mercury toxicity?

You could do a DDI hair test.

> Any ideas for the adrenal fatigue? Capsules (and not too many) are

> preferable, or something I can easily mix with liquid.

Vit C and B5 several times per day, adrenal cortex extract, and

licorice solid extract would be helpful.

--

> Thanks,

>

> Stroyan

> www.empathic-discipline.com

> Click here to email me directly:

> <mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

>

July 20, 2006

and Jan, thanks for the quick response. Now I have more

questions though!

At 02:08 AM 7/20/2006, you wrote:

>Sounds like his thyroid may be in bad shape, too. Low sodium to

>potassium ratio is an indicator of thyroid problems. Good idea

>to do some thyroid testing - free T3, free T4, TSH, and thyroid

>antibodies.

We haven't yet gone to the level of forcing him to do blood testing

which he is very strongly opposed to and would feel like a violation

to him...so our doc is trying to find other ways of discerning the

problem. Is there any other way to test thyroid?

>The counting rules can be used with an ARL test, but only for

>adults. They do not use age-based reference ranges.

Ah - very interesting.

>The lack of

>appropriate ranges will make the mineral levels appear lower

>than they really are. Might still be an all-low pattern, though.

Or, it could be mostly normal...They aren't critically low, just not

up to the " expected " mark.

>EDTA is not a good choice when the possibility of mercury exists.

>Aluminum is reduced best by removing exposure and chelating mercury.

Can you tell me why EDTA is not a good idea?

>Vit C and B5 several times per day, adrenal cortex extract, and

>licorice solid extract would be helpful.

Do you know if Ester Vit C is as effective as Vit C several times a

day? It claims to be more slow to release.

For the licorice solid extract, are there any contraindications? Can

I just add this on my own? Is there a source that is encapsulated?

Ditto for the adrenal cortex extract.

Thanks again!!!

Stroyan

www.empathic-discipline.com

Click here to email me directly:

<mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

July 20, 2006

At 10:58 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote:

>I would suggest reading the files

>section here to learn more of the chelation protocol many of us use,

>and the supplements. This is how you would treat him for mercury

>poisoning, it would also get rid of the aluminum.

Thanks, Jan.

The impression I got from reading as many of the files and such as I

could, was that neither ALA nor DMSA will chelate aluminum.

Can I treat my son with ALA without having done DMSA?

Can I give him ALA along with low-dose EDTA for the aluminum?

Also I keep hearing about a " every 4 hour " schedule. That will be

close to impossible once school starts. And do you wake them at

night also? Any time my son doesn't get a full night's sleep all of

his anger issues, etc come back - I think perhaps because it's so

hard on his adrenals? - I'd rather not disrupt his sleep.

Thanks,

Stroyan

www.empathic-discipline.com

Click here to email me directly:

<mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

July 20, 2006

I am using ala and dmsa for all the metals. We had to use dmsa

because my son is very high in lead too. And ala is slow to remove

that if at all. I know that Dana chelated with only ALA so it seems

worth a try. As far as I know dmsa should remove aluminum too as it

removes all toxic heavy metals. If the ALA does not. They recomend

chelating as for mercury to get rid of aluminum. Likely he has

mercury anyway. With the enviornment we all have some level of

toxicitiy. It just affects children more because their brains are

not done developing.

Unfortunately yes, we do have to wake them at night. With my three

year old it was hard at first but now he sits up, eats his treat

laced with med's and takes a drink and goes back to sleep. My

daughter is 11 and she gulps her pill down in a stupor and passes

back out. The difficult part with chelation is that the chelating

agents only last so long in the body. dmsa is 4 hours, and ala is

3.5 hours roughly. So if you do not give them every fours hours to

maintain a steady amount in the body, then metals can settle back

into the body. (redistribution) Not to mention the side effects

start to show up. This can actually make him sicker. We missed a

four am dose once because we didn't hear the alarm clock, and when I

woke my son for the next dose, he was miserable. They tell you if

you miss a dose to stop the whole round, and wait at least four days

to restart it. I do understand what you mean with the sleep. My

daughter and I both suffer adrenal exhaustion and loss of sleep is

hard. At first it will be hard, but as you go along, he will adjust

and probably not wake fully anymore. His temperament may be better

on chelators at first anyway. As for school, most chelate starting

friday afternoon when they get off the bus and give the last dose

monday morning before they leave for school. And take advantage of

those long weekends when they have a friday or monday off. Or

recess. It is possible to chelate while they are in school, but you

need a doctors note or script for the nurse to give the chelators,

it would probably raise some question. Thought I am sure there are

some parents on here who have notes from the doctor and their kids

recieve doses at school. I just find it easier if I can manage that

myself. You will have to open capsules to get the right doses, and

school usually will not dispense anything " tampered " with.

Is he on adrenal support? This is something he will need with or

without chelation. Even removing the metals his adrenal glands may

need this support to heal and function properly. This may also help

with the symptoms he is displaying. Metal toxicity causes adrenal

stress and eventually adrenal exhaustion. I think I remember reading

somewhere that adrenal exhaustion is caused from mercury. While I

could be wrong, it seems to be charactaristics. In any case

chelating him with just ALA would take care of mercury.

> >I would suggest reading the files

> >section here to learn more of the chelation protocol many of us

use,

> >and the supplements. This is how you would treat him for mercury

> >poisoning, it would also get rid of the aluminum.

>

> Thanks, Jan.

>

> The impression I got from reading as many of the files and such as

I

> could, was that neither ALA nor DMSA will chelate aluminum.

>

> Can I treat my son with ALA without having done DMSA?

>

> Can I give him ALA along with low-dose EDTA for the aluminum?

>

> Also I keep hearing about a " every 4 hour " schedule. That will be

> close to impossible once school starts. And do you wake them at

> night also? Any time my son doesn't get a full night's sleep all

of

> his anger issues, etc come back - I think perhaps because it's so

> hard on his adrenals? - I'd rather not disrupt his sleep.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Stroyan

> www.empathic-discipline.com

> Click here to email me directly:

> <mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

>

July 20, 2006

One way to confirm low thyroid function is to check his temperature

each morning before he rises out of bed, while he is still lying

down. Write it down and do this for a week or so. To get an average.

If his temperaturs is below normal that indicates low thyroid

function. While it will not tell you the levels of hormones, I have

low thyroid function from mercury, and my doc tested it that way,

because she said that blood work does not always show it. All the

right levels of hormones can be in the blood but it does not mean

your thyroid can use them. So perhaps try this first, and then if

his temp is low most of the time, then do blood work if you feel it

is needed. Either way a thryoid support product is what is

recommended to treat that.

In addition to 's comment, all low on minerals can indicate

mercury as well. She's right about the EDTA..I forgot that part.

That is why most here do not use it. It also has more of an affinity

for minerals than dmsa. Edta was mainly developed for use with lead

but as time went on, a better chelator was discovered that produced

good results with less side effects (dmsa).

Vitamin C, whatever kind needs to be given throughout the day. Your

body only processes so much vitamin c at once the rest is excreted

in urine. The body stores no c. So frequent dosing is necessary. We

take vitamin C four times a day in doses that end up equaling the

total.

Others on the adrenal and licorice dosing??

> >Sounds like his thyroid may be in bad shape, too. Low sodium to

> >potassium ratio is an indicator of thyroid problems. Good idea

> >to do some thyroid testing - free T3, free T4, TSH, and thyroid

> >antibodies.

>

> We haven't yet gone to the level of forcing him to do blood

testing

>

July 20, 2006

The early morning temps are the best way, but unlikely to happen with any child

that I have ever known :-) Another way is to start taking their temps from

about an hour after they awaken and then every three hours ending around the

time they go to bed.

What you should see, if thyroid functions are normal is around 98.6 give or take

a few decimal points during the day, a small spike between 1pm and 4pm to around

98.9 or 99.0, then a reduction of around 98.0 before bedtime.

Our little one's temps were averaging about 97.0 for the day, clearly an

indication. Of course if you have one of those kids who you can get to lay

perfectly still for 5 minutes first thing in the morning, Jan is right, that is

the best way.

[ ] Re: New - aluminum / other questions