Questions about a diet post of Andy Cutler

[Guest guest]

In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone explain? It

is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in cysteine

and why is it bad? (low detox?)

3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

As always thanks in advance,

The article ID may be 217237

[Guest guest]

> 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in

cysteine

> and why is it bad? (low detox?)

Milk is a primary source of cysteine.

When I gave my son a cysteine supplement, his language and behaviors

improved.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Which supplement did you use Dana if I may ask. If you don't do testing, how

did you know he was low and needed it? I am not doing a lot of testing and am

wondering how to detect this. My son won't touch milk or much dairy at all for

that matter.

Thanks!

danasview <danasview@...> wrote:

> 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in

cysteine

> and why is it bad? (low detox?)

Milk is a primary source of cysteine.

When I gave my son a cysteine supplement, his language and behaviors

improved.

Dana

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[Guest guest]

Thank you, Dana. Which cysteine did you use.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a really great site that explains who is likely to need

methionine and who is not. It was so amazingly accurate for my son,

who was a patient of Pfeiffer Treatment Center for a few years. My

son has high histamines/undermethylator and does amazing on

methionine.

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm#Mer

Hope this helps.

Tami Wilken

Gavin's mom

>

> In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

>

> 1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone

explain? It

> is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

> 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in

cysteine

> and why is it bad? (low detox?)

> 3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

>

> As always thanks in advance,

>

>

>

> The article ID may be 217237

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Which supplement did you use Dana if I may ask.

I went to the amino acid section of my local health food store and

bought straight cysteine.

>> If you don't do testing, how did you know he was low and needed it?

I just decided to give him one-half capsule one day, and see if it helped.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hello Tami,

Thank you very much for the article. I read it fully and found it very

informative.

However Walsh's under and over methylator theory confuses me. I

would love to go by it but I am not sure of children....like ours... It may

be more true for adults? I asked my DAN Dr. about the under and over; she

dismissed it contemptously saying it is 'old'. I was taken aback. I think

the truth is somewhere in between.

My confusion stems from the facts: My child's histamine is high - his

norepinephrine is high, his behaviors however fall in between under and

over- so it can be either, maybe more of under. BUT, his folic acid is low

so I am supplementing with that (a big no-no for under-methylators) and we

just started MB12 which has been amazing despite the hyperactivity. Now MB12

should be NOT good for an undermethylator. See my confusion?

I would love to use Choline to calm him- but the theory says 'No " . At this

point I am thinking that the only way to test something is to try it. I will

try methionine in future.

Any comments with be most appreciated,

On 9/13/06, Tami Wilken <wtwilken@...> wrote:

>

> Here is a really great site that explains who is likely to need

> methionine and who is not. It was so amazingly accurate for my son,

> who was a patient of Pfeiffer Treatment Center for a few years. My

> son has high histamines/undermethylator and does amazing on

> methionine.

>

> http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm#Mer

>

> Hope this helps.

> Tami Wilken

> Gavin's mom

>

>

>

> >

> > In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

> >

> > 1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone

> explain? It

> > is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

> > 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in

> cysteine

> > and why is it bad? (low detox?)

> > 3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

> >

> > As always thanks in advance,

> >

> >

> >

> > The article ID may be 217237

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My son is a high histamine/undermethylator kid so I do see the

confusion. I had it myself when reading through. I think that this

information is pretty new with the B12 because Pfeiffer used to

prescribe MB12 to those with high histamines. They used to say that

MB12 would lower histamines. My son was a patient of Pfeiffer for a

few years and so I was confused when the MB12 made the high

histamine symptoms worse. I thought it was just a unique situation.

That site used to say that only the folate was not recommended for

high histamine kids. They recently just added the B12 to that with

the folates. But I am unsure if they are referring to each one

seperately or just both of them together.

I think that some of the over/undermethylator symptoms can overlap.

I know my son had OCD (under) and anxiety (over). He used to be a

very skinny kid (under) and now he's a bigger boy. He has suffered

from seasonal allergies for many years (under) and that is what I

think it the big indicator of over/under with high histamines. He

also responded very well to the MB12 shots (over) for about a year

but did have side effects (under) as well including increase in high

histamine behaviors (allergies,

OCD, sneezing, potty accidents, explosive anger, anxiety). I didn't

even associate some of these things to MB12 until I took it away

after starting Liver LIfe then tried to add it back in a few times.

I am wondering if the kids who are high in histamines can still

benefit from MB12 but just need to incorporate a way to lower

histamines as well.

While the high histamine/undermethylator and low

histamine/overmethylator is not new info, the ideas about the B12

is. The site was recently updated and this was rewritten to include

this info. They did mention that the staff was struggling with

this idea but clinically it seemed to hold true. And they also

said, " ...generally exhibit " elevated folate levels, so I am sure

like with everything, there are exceptions. It appears to hold true

for us. My son can't tolerate folates very well and histamines

increased while on MB12.

Have you tried including the methionine of SAMe into your child's

supps to see if it helps with high histamines? For my son,

methionine is amazing for his histamines.

I hope that maybe something here helps!

Tami Wilken

Gavin's mom

> > >

> > > In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

> > >

> > > 1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone

> > explain? It

> > > is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

> > > 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low

in

> > cysteine

> > > and why is it bad? (low detox?)

> > > 3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

> > >

> > > As always thanks in advance,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The article ID may be 217237

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Tami,

Thank you so much for the details. They help out a lot. Things a bit crazy

since we started Mb12 shots- after the first shot the resuts were FANTASTIC.

After the second shot the hyperactivity took over and everything is masked.

We have had 4 shots (one in 3 days) so far. Flapping, stimming lack of focus

are at the worst...

I will try the SAMe and methionine and see if it helps- I know this- my

child used to behave much better when on benadryl!! (an antihistamine)

Where and which form of SAMe did you buy? Do such active methyl donors cause

hardship to the gut?

thank you,

On 9/15/06, Tami Wilken <wtwilken@...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

> My son is a high histamine/undermethylator kid so I do see the

> confusion. I had it myself when reading through. I think that this

> information is pretty new with the B12 because Pfeiffer used to

> prescribe MB12 to those with high histamines. They used to say that

> MB12 would lower histamines. My son was a patient of Pfeiffer for a

> few years and so I was confused when the MB12 made the high

> histamine symptoms worse. I thought it was just a unique situation.

> That site used to say that only the folate was not recommended for

> high histamine kids. They recently just added the B12 to that with

> the folates. But I am unsure if they are referring to each one

> seperately or just both of them together.

>

> I think that some of the over/undermethylator symptoms can overlap.

> I know my son had OCD (under) and anxiety (over). He used to be a

> very skinny kid (under) and now he's a bigger boy. He has suffered

> from seasonal allergies for many years (under) and that is what I

> think it the big indicator of over/under with high histamines. He

> also responded very well to the MB12 shots (over) for about a year

> but did have side effects (under) as well including increase in high

> histamine behaviors (allergies,

> OCD, sneezing, potty accidents, explosive anger, anxiety). I didn't

> even associate some of these things to MB12 until I took it away

> after starting Liver LIfe then tried to add it back in a few times.

> I am wondering if the kids who are high in histamines can still

> benefit from MB12 but just need to incorporate a way to lower

> histamines as well.

>

> While the high histamine/undermethylator and low

> histamine/overmethylator is not new info, the ideas about the B12

> is. The site was recently updated and this was rewritten to include

> this info. They did mention that the staff was struggling with

> this idea but clinically it seemed to hold true. And they also

> said, " ...generally exhibit " elevated folate levels, so I am sure

> like with everything, there are exceptions. It appears to hold true

> for us. My son can't tolerate folates very well and histamines

> increased while on MB12.

>

> Have you tried including the methionine of SAMe into your child's

> supps to see if it helps with high histamines? For my son,

> methionine is amazing for his histamines.

>

> I hope that maybe something here helps!

>

>

> Tami Wilken

> Gavin's mom

>

>

> > > >

> > > > In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

> > > >

> > > > 1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone

> > > explain? It

> > > > is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

> > > > 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low

> in

> > > cysteine

> > > > and why is it bad? (low detox?)

> > > > 3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

> > > >

> > > > As always thanks in advance,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The article ID may be 217237

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

> Thank you so much for the details. They help out a lot. Things a bit

crazy

> since we started Mb12 shots- after the first shot the resuts were

FANTASTIC.

> After the second shot the hyperactivity took over and everything is

masked.

> We have had 4 shots (one in 3 days) so far. Flapping, stimming lack

of focus

> are at the worst...

For my son, reducing the dose of mB12, adding folic acid, and

increasing the yeast protocol were required for him to tolerate mB12.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dana. I'm trying to convince my dh that we need go off the shots

and go oral. The hyperactivity, biting shirts etc etc is so hard on

everybody

On 9/21/06, danasview <danasview@...> wrote:

>

>

> > Thank you so much for the details. They help out a lot. Things a bit

> crazy

> > since we started Mb12 shots- after the first shot the resuts were

> FANTASTIC.

> > After the second shot the hyperactivity took over and everything is

> masked.

> > We have had 4 shots (one in 3 days) so far. Flapping, stimming lack

> of focus

> > are at the worst...

>

> For my son, reducing the dose of mB12, adding folic acid, and

> increasing the yeast protocol were required for him to tolerate mB12.

>

> Dana

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> In his archived note about diets Andy says to-

You probably are seriously miscontstruing my note as 'one size fits all.' Since

I'm not a

liberal arts major pretending to know something about biochemistry like most

physicians

are I don't make one size fits all suggestsion.

>

> 1. Restrict Methionine, Phenyalanine and Tyrosine- can someone explain? It

> is counter intuitive to me. What am I missing?

That it is specifically for those children who have aggression, agitation, and

probably have

been offered antipsychotic medications due to those being so extreme. Or

otherwise for

people who seem to have some of the 'schizo' disorders.

> 2. He says GFCFSFCF makes low cysteine - why is this diet low in cysteine

becvause of the composition of the foods excluded, and of those routinely used

to replace

them. Dairy and soy are very high in cysteine and its precursors.

> and why is it bad? (low detox?)

It isn't necessarily bad. Here again you are misreading this as 'one size fits

all.' Some

people need to sharply restrict dietary cysteine sources, others need to greatly

increase

them. It depends on the child. The thing is to figure it out for YOUR child

and feed them

appropriately.

> 3. Veg diets are low sulphur- how so?

Vegetarian diets are NOT low in sulfur. They are HIGH in

sulfur/cysteine/thiols.

> As always thanks in advance,

>

>

>

> The article ID may be 217237

>

>

>