Re: OT - Adult lead chelation: fuzzy brain?

[Guest guest]

>

> For an adult chelating lead and mercury...

I'm an adult chelating mercury, not sure about lead.....

>has anyone ever had a hard

> time thinking/remembering things

That's a huge problem for me....

>while doing the protocol?

Before I started chelation, during chelation, when I stop....

>Kind of a

> fuzzy brain effect. Is that a bad sign? I don't think it is yeast

> because it goes away after the round very quickly. I'm chelating

> with low-dose (12.5) DMSA every few hours. I'm thinking it's the

> lead as that is my main issue...does that mean it's too fast? I'm

> not sure I can break up the pills more than 8 times! (I could get

> the 25s I guess). I am taking milk thistle, minerals (though probably

> not enough), choline, Vit C and bunch of other stuff, split as much

as I can.

>

Try some alka seltzer gold and extra magnesium. That helps to clear

the fog for me. Chelation is stress and when the adrenals are

stressed sodium is lost. When the kidneys are stressed they seem to

lose more magnesium and potassium. Drink lots of water.

Good luck

J

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

From what I've read, " brain fog " seems to be a common symptom of the poisoning,

and

can be exaberated by chelating.

When I first began chelating, I had more days where my brain felt " dull " .

Sometimes it is

worse the first day off round.

I feel better on ALA only, but after doing DMSA for 3 months straight, we're

switching to

rounds with ALA only, and doing a round with ALA + DMSA once a month. More on

this in

Andy's book " Hair Test Interpretation " .

, chelating adult, and chelating 2 NT kids, round 33

[Guest guest]

>

> For an adult chelating lead and mercury...has anyone ever had a hard

> time thinking/remembering things while doing the protocol?

LOL, what were you saying?

> Kind of a

> fuzzy brain effect. Is that a bad sign?

Were you not having this symptom before chelating?

>I'm thinking it's the

> lead as that is my main issue...does that mean it's too fast?

Is it tolerable? I had such bad brain fog at one point I kept

forgetting where I was in the car -- not only where I was going, but

where I was, period. I can't remember whether that was before starting

chelation or after though.

> I am taking milk thistle, minerals (though probably

> not enough), choline, Vit C and bunch of other stuff, split as much

as I can.

Check " Amalgam Illness " for exhaustive and very specific help for

particular symptoms. There's a lot of stuff to take for improved brain

function. Can;t uyou tell? LOL

Nell

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:43 PM 8/9/2006, you wrote:

> > Kind of a

> > fuzzy brain effect. Is that a bad sign?

>

>Were you not having this symptom before chelating?

Well, my memory is and has been horrible for years. I'll be driving

in the car and trying to remember 3 things I need to do or buy and

reciting them over and over so I don't forget, and still sometimes by

the time I get to a red light, get out my palmtop, and start a

voice-recording, I will have lost them. I actually completely forgot

to take my son to his doctor's appt the other day because I forgot to

set an alarm on the appointment in that same machine, which I call my " brain " .

But not the fuzzy brain, this is different. Everything feels

" slow " . I lost the day of the week 3 times in one day. In other

words, I would be thinking at one point, " It's Monday..tomorrow is X,

Wed has Y on it... " and then an hour later, I'd " reach " in my brain

for what day it was, and I couldn't *find* it for a couple minutes.

>Is it tolerable? I had such bad brain fog at one point I kept

>forgetting where I was in the car -- not only where I was going, but

>where I was, period. I can't remember whether that was before starting

>chelation or after though.

Wow. It's not been quite that bad though sometimes I have that

sensation for just a few seconds.

Yes, it's tolerable. I just want to know if it indicates a problem,

or that things are working, since it is ONLY during DMSA chelation.

>Check " Amalgam Illness " for exhaustive and very specific help for

>particular symptoms. There's a lot of stuff to take for improved brain

>function. Can;t uyou tell? LOL

Hey, you all seem quite on top of things to me!

Stroyan

www.empathic-discipline.com

Click here to email me directly:

<mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

[Guest guest]

Short-term memory problems are more related to mercury, while

long-term memory is impaired by lead.

Why do you think lead is more of an issue for you? Maybe you

have more mercury than you think.

You don't have amalgams, do you?

--

>

> For an adult chelating lead and mercury...has anyone ever had a hard

> time thinking/remembering things while doing the protocol? Kind of a

> fuzzy brain effect. Is that a bad sign? I don't think it is yeast

> because it goes away after the round very quickly. I'm chelating

> with low-dose (12.5) DMSA every few hours. I'm thinking it's the

> lead as that is my main issue...does that mean it's too fast? I'm

> not sure I can break up the pills more than 8 times! (I could get

> the 25s I guess). I am taking milk thistle, minerals (though probably

> not enough), choline, Vit C and bunch of other stuff, split as much

as I can.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Short-term memory problems are more related to mercury, while

>long-term memory is impaired by lead.

Shoot.

>Why do you think lead is more of an issue for you? Maybe you

>have more mercury than you think.

You are probably right. I had a challenge test and lead and mercury

both came out but lead much, much, higher. Now I am starting to

understand it's just because the mercury is " hiding " not because it's

not there.

>You don't have amalgams, do you?

Ok, I confess, I do. I didn't mention this because I already know

the group's opinion on chelating at all with fillings and didn't want

the " oh no! reaction " . It was a conscious decision to do a

small-dose trial. My son does not have any amalgams; I'm much more

willing to experiment on myself.

So now I'm in a catch-22. My doctor, who I really like, is worried

that getting the fillings removed right now would really be too hard

on my system. I talked to him today and he said I need to stop the

DMSA - that those are not good side effects, it indicates

redistribution of mercury. I told him various things that I read

here, and he agreed and said it was all good information. I brought

up the filling question, and he said even with proper care, outside

air, etc - it would be too much at once. He said, if this is how you

feel on 12 mg of DMSA which is pulling a small amount out, imagine

how you would feel with the amount released by removal of

fillings. He wants me to come in and consider other things that are

gentler chelators (though he doesn't believe in zeolites due to new

research he just found), as well as really strongly bump up my

mineral intake. So I'm going in in two weeks.

Here's my problem. The lead and mercury together are what's getting

me. He said he had only found one study on the combination of the

two. The study found the amount of mercury that would kill 1 out of

100 mice. They did the same for lead. (Called the 1% lethal dose, I

guess the other mice just got sick). Then they gave this same 1%

dose of EACH to 100 mice....all 100 died That is how much worse

they are together I guess. So, if I get a bunch of mercury in my

system from filling removal, it could be really bad, so we were

hoping to get the burden of both down a little.

Is there anything that chelates lead and NOT mercury?

Stroyan

www.empathic-discipline.com

Click here to email me directly:

<mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

[Guest guest]

> He said, if this is how you

> feel on 12 mg of DMSA which is pulling a small amount out, imagine

> how you would feel with the amount released by removal of

> fillings.

How many do you have? What about getting them removed one by one,

slowly? Honestly I think that's your only way out. As far as I know

there isn't a way to deal with lead only if there's Hg involved.

If it's any consolation a lot of us here are toxic with both.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Can you take dmsa for three months straight?

I am a mercury toxic adult with serious brain fog...I really need to

get my brain back so I can parent and chelate my kids effectively

but was not aware that it could be used that long. Or did I

misunderstand your post?

>

> Hi ,

>

> From what I've read, " brain fog " seems to be a common symptom of

the poisoning, and

> can be exaberated by chelating.

>

> When I first began chelating, I had more days where my brain

felt " dull " . Sometimes it is

> worse the first day off round.

>

> I feel better on ALA only, but after doing DMSA for 3 months

straight, we're switching to

> rounds with ALA only, and doing a round with ALA + DMSA once a

month. More on this in

> Andy's book " Hair Test Interpretation " .

>

> , chelating adult, and chelating 2 NT kids, round 33

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >Short-term memory problems are more related to mercury, while

> >long-term memory is impaired by lead.

>

> Shoot.

>

> >Why do you think lead is more of an issue for you? Maybe you

> >have more mercury than you think.

>

> You are probably right. I had a challenge test and lead and mercury

> both came out but lead much, much, higher. Now I am starting to

> understand it's just because the mercury is " hiding " not because it's

> not there.

>

>

> >You don't have amalgams, do you?

>

> Ok, I confess, I do. I didn't mention this because I already know

> the group's opinion on chelating at all with fillings and didn't want

> the " oh no! reaction " . It was a conscious decision to do a

> small-dose trial. My son does not have any amalgams; I'm much more

> willing to experiment on myself.

I did the same thing, except I experimented with high doses (500 mg

3x daily). I only took a couple of doses before I realized that I

would rather stay poisoned than suffer that way.

I decided that if the amalgams were what had poisoned me to begin

with, it didn't make sense to take the risk of accelerating the

poisoning by chelating with them still in my mouth.

Andy says that the chelators get into the saliva and chelate

directly from the fillings. I would imagine that if amalgam is

close to the blood supply of the tooth, that is another route for

chelation to occur.

> So now I'm in a catch-22. My doctor, who I really like, is worried

> that getting the fillings removed right now would really be too hard

> on my system. I talked to him today and he said I need to stop the

> DMSA - that those are not good side effects, it indicates

> redistribution of mercury. I told him various things that I read

> here, and he agreed and said it was all good information. I brought

> up the filling question, and he said even with proper care, outside

> air, etc - it would be too much at once. He said, if this is how you

> feel on 12 mg of DMSA which is pulling a small amount out, imagine

> how you would feel with the amount released by removal of

> fillings. He wants me to come in and consider other things that are

> gentler chelators (though he doesn't believe in zeolites due to new

> research he just found), as well as really strongly bump up my

> mineral intake. So I'm going in in two weeks.

Well, the " gentler chelators " are not so gentle for many people,

and chemically speaking are not chelators at all. There is evidence

to back up the fact that DMSA and DMPS and ALA actually remove

metals. There is no such evidence that the other stuff " works " , and

the anecdotal reports are, at best, mixed.

I think it's important to be properly supplemented and address any

adrenal and/or thyroid issues before starting to chelate (probably

even before starting removal). You also have to be " ready " to do

it, I think. However, many people before removal are already

" deteriorating " and realistically are not going to get better until

the amalgams are gone. Of course, you have to evaluate your own

situation.

> Here's my problem. The lead and mercury together are what's getting

> me. He said he had only found one study on the combination of the

> two. The study found the amount of mercury that would kill 1 out of

> 100 mice. They did the same for lead. (Called the 1% lethal dose, I

> guess the other mice just got sick). Then they gave this same 1%

> dose of EACH to 100 mice....all 100 died That is how much worse

> they are together I guess. So, if I get a bunch of mercury in my

> system from filling removal, it could be really bad, so we were

> hoping to get the burden of both down a little.

>

> Is there anything that chelates lead and NOT mercury?

Unfortunately, no - at least nothing I have heard about to date.

I have the same situation. On my challenge test, lead was much

higher than mercury, but having seen lots of urine toxic metals

results since then, it is pretty clear that these results are

meaningless as a reflection of toxic burden. What comes out on

these tests is unpredictable and often inconsistent with expectations

based on other testing and/or prior urine toxic metals tests.

--

[Guest guest]

,

I see the concerns your doctor has about more mercury exposure from

removal, but if the removal is done properly by a professional

trained with all the right protective measures, the exposure is

minimal in comparison to what you get daily anyway. And if it was a

huge concern you could have a few done at a time. Being very sick

from mercury myself I contemplated removal for a while. I had about

14 fillings!

I chose to have a Huggins trained dentist remove them. I also had IV

vitamin C before, during and after to combat the exposure. They also

provide supplements to assist your body is dealing with the extra

mercury. What will happen when they remove them all is that your

body will begin to dump the mercury. This is when most people feel

sick. This happend to me on the second day, but by taking 1000mg of

vitamin C every three to four hours, I did not feel sick anymore. I

actually felt pretty good. But you do need to start chelation soon

after that. At about three months post removal your body recognizes

that the daily exposure is gone and really starts cleaning house..so

you will need to chelate to see any improvement.

After four days you can begin to take dmsa to remove that freed up

mercury and any that you received during removal. After three months

you can add the ALA to the dmsa.

You may be feeling worse because you are actually bringing more

mercury out of your fillings into your body with dmsa. You will get

redistribution when the fillings are still in. Basically, the only

way to permanantly remove exposure is to remove those fillings, then

begin to chelate. (hey, no riot act here, I am sure you already knew

this)

There are no chelators that I know of that selectively remove only

one metal. dmsa is the best for lead, but to safely use it without

getting yourself sicker...is well..the fillings gotta go.

Please keep in mind often times the reason you are highly toxic in

other metals is because you are carrying mercury which limits your

bodies ability to deal with the lead.

>

>

> >Short-term memory problems are more related to mercury, while

> >long-term memory is impaired by lead.

>

> Shoot.

>

> >Why do you think lead is more of an issue for you? Maybe you

> >have more mercury than you think.

>

> You are probably right. I had a challenge test and lead and

mercury

> both came out but lead much, much, higher. Now I am starting to

> understand it's just because the mercury is " hiding " not because

it's > not there.

> >

> >You don't have amalgams, do you?

>

> Ok, I confess, I do. I didn't mention this because I already know

> the group's opinion on chelating at all with fillings and didn't

want the " oh no! reaction " . It was a conscious decision to do a

> small-dose trial. My son does not have any amalgams; I'm much

more

> willing to experiment on myself.

>

> So now I'm in a catch-22. My doctor, who I really like, is

worried

> that getting the fillings removed right now would really be too

hard

> on my system. I talked to him today and he said I need to stop

the

> DMSA - that those are not good side effects, it indicates

> redistribution of mercury. I told him various things that I read

> here, and he agreed and said it was all good information. I

brought

> up the filling question, and he said even with proper care,

outside

> air, etc - it would be too much at once. He said, if this is how

you

> feel on 12 mg of DMSA which is pulling a small amount out, imagine

> how you would feel with the amount released by removal of

> fillings. He wants me to come in and consider other things that

are

> gentler chelators (though he doesn't believe in zeolites due to

new

> research he just found), as well as really strongly bump up my

> mineral intake. So I'm going in in two weeks.

>

> Here's my problem. The lead and mercury together are what's

getting

> me. He said he had only found one study on the combination of the

> two. The study found the amount of mercury that would kill 1 out

of

> 100 mice. They did the same for lead. (Called the 1% lethal

dose, I

> guess the other mice just got sick). Then they gave this same 1%

> dose of EACH to 100 mice....all 100 died That is how much

worse

> they are together I guess. So, if I get a bunch of mercury in my

> system from filling removal, it could be really bad, so we were

> hoping to get the burden of both down a little.

>

> Is there anything that chelates lead and NOT mercury?

>

>

> Stroyan

> www.empathic-discipline.com

> Click here to email me directly:

> <mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Can you take dmsa for three months straight?

> I am a mercury toxic adult with serious brain fog...I really need to

> get my brain back so I can parent and chelate my kids effectively

> but was not aware that it could be used that long. Or did I

> misunderstand your post?

Hi Jan, we did 3 months of DMSA, meaning nearly every week we did a 3 day round.

in Illinois

[Guest guest]

, I hope you'll consider getting your amalgams removed and then begin

chelation with

Andy's protocol.

in Illinois

[Guest guest]

At 02:40 PM 8/10/2006, you wrote:

>

> > He said, if this is how you

> > feel on 12 mg of DMSA which is pulling a small amount out, imagine

> > how you would feel with the amount released by removal of

> > fillings.

>

>How many do you have? What about getting them removed one by one,

>slowly?

Ack, torture!! Put it this way...I have enough, starting from

childhood, that I have a pretty bad dentist phobia, my current

dentist excluded (traditional, unfortunately, and thinks the whole

mercury stuff is bogus...but the man can give novocaine like nobody

else and is a total sweetheart). Not quite every molar but some have

2. Some perhaps too big for composite.

I honestly was hoping to just be put under general anesthetic and

have lots of drugs when I woke up Then someone said, that would

be too many hours under, so I switched to the idea of doing them in

1/2s or 1/4s. I'm not sure I could handle one or two at a time.

>Honestly I think that's your only way out. As far as I know

>there isn't a way to deal with lead only if there's Hg involved.

>

>If it's any consolation a lot of us here are toxic with both.

It is. It's not so much the consolation that you have it too. It's

more that I know how this group understands the loss of a

dream. Metal poisoning has prevented me from having a second child

(many, many miscarriages - I stopped counting the early ones) for 6

years, I've *finally* found the answer, but it will be too late I

think. I'm not too old (38) but my dh is 8 years older than me and

my son is already 9.5 . I'm really really sad. Having a child that

is " different " from others (even if NT) myself, I highly suspect this

is similar to the loss of the dream of a " normal " childhood for our

children that the moms on this group might feel.

Stroyan

www.empathic-discipline.com

Click here to email me directly:

<mailto:lstroyan@...>lstroyan@...

[Guest guest]

Hear, hear! I enjoy your posts, it would be a shame to have you konk

out on us now. :-)

René

>

> , I hope you'll consider getting your amalgams removed and then

begin chelation with

> Andy's protocol.

>

> in Illinois

>

[Guest guest]

> I honestly was hoping to just be put under general anesthetic and

> have lots of drugs when I woke up

Actually that's what I did. The dentist calls it " twilight sedation "

-- you're awake, but in la-la land and don't care about anything . I

think it's a combo of valium and nitrous, maybe something else in

there too. I only had seven and had them done all at once, also by a

dentist who wouldn't admit to any Hg issues but who doesn't use

amalgam himself. And he used a dam and oxygen etc. so I went for it.

The big fillings in molars that he thought might not work with

composite have been fine.

>I'm really really sad. Having a child that

> is " different " from others (even if NT) myself, I highly suspect this

> is similar to the loss of the dream of a " normal " childhood for our

> children that the moms on this group might feel.

Yes, lots and lots of grief, although those early years with n

were so grueling that I had to wait until things got a little easier

before I could feel it. It really hits me at conferences, where you

see hundreds of parents and all of us have this mixture of sadness and

anger written on our faces.

Nell

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Ack, torture!! Put it this way...I have enough, starting from

> childhood, that I have a pretty bad dentist phobia, my current

> dentist excluded (traditional, unfortunately, and thinks the whole

> mercury stuff is bogus...but the man can give novocaine like nobody

> else and is a total sweetheart). Not quite every molar but some have

> 2. Some perhaps too big for composite.

I had four HUGE amalgams in my molars and small fillings on several other teeth.

Back in

2001 one of my filled molars cracked in half. I went to the DDS (an old high

school friend

of mine) and he drilled the broken tooth out and placed a crown. He urged me to

get the

other filled molars replaced before they cracked. I had 3 more crowns put in.

I think this was the tipping point for me. Those fillings were drilled out

without taking any

special precautions. After the dental work, I slowly began to, well, slow down.

I'd spin my

wheels and think about what I needed to be doing, but not get much of anything

done. I

had been gung-ho about some DIY home renovations, and those came to a grinding

halt.

And, I was getting irritable. I didn't know about amalgam illness then.

I don't like going to the DDS either, but a couple things that helped a lot:

taking a big

cozy fleece jacket with me and putting it over me like a blanket, and wearing

headphones

and CRANKING the music. Al Green's Greatest Hits was largely responsible for

getting me

through the procedure. The headphones made a huge difference, huge!

My DDS/friend doesn't buy into the " mercury hype " @@ either, but he took out the

rest of

my smaller amalgams, without giving me grief, so I could chelate. I'm on round

33 and I

feel like I'm coming back alive, feeling like my old self, and not so stuck.

Let me assure

you that I didn't think anything was " wrong " before and chalked up most of what

I was

feeling to middle age.

, you deserve to feel better and get well. You can do it. You can get

those fillings

replaced. Teeth can be rebuilt, crowns can be placed. One way to think about

it is the

fillings will not last forever anyways and eventually you'll have to cross the

bridge of going

to the DDS and facing more work.

{{{}}}

in Illinois

[Guest guest]

I'm a dentalphobe myself and I had 17 fillings replaced in 3 days. I did not

have general.

S S

Ack, torture!! Put it this way...I have enough, starting from <br>

childhood, that I have a pretty bad dentist phobia, my current <br>

dentist excluded (traditional, unfortunately, and thinks the whole <br>

mercury stuff is bogus...but the man can give novocaine like nobody <br>

else and is a total sweetheart). Not quite every molar but some have <br>

2. Some perhaps too big for composite.<br>

<br>

I honestly was hoping to just be put under general anesthetic and <br>

have lots of drugs when I woke up Then someone said, that would <br>

be too many hours under, so I switched to the idea of doing them in <br>

1/2s or 1/4s. I'm not sure I could handle one or two at a time.<br>

<br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

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[Guest guest]

Jan,

Have you had your fillings out?

S S

" Jan " <paxlforme@.<wbr>..> wrote:<br>

><br>

> Can you take dmsa for three months straight?<br>

> I am a mercury toxic adult with serious brain fog...I really need to <br>

> get my brain back so I can parent and chelate my kids effectively <br>

> but was not aware that it could be used that long. Or did I <br>

> misunderstand your post?<br>

<br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

> Ack, torture!! Put it this way...I have enough, starting from

> childhood, that I have a pretty bad dentist phobia, my current

> dentist excluded (traditional, unfortunately, and thinks the whole

> mercury stuff is bogus...but the man can give novocaine like nobody

> else and is a total sweetheart).

I used a traditional dentist who meets this description. He used none

of the " regular precautions " , but I adequately supplemented myself

with anti-oxidants and other things to help my body thru the process.

I have one more appt to go, before all my amalgams are gone. I did

1/4 of my mouth each time.

Dana