Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 You don't have to have your doctor's permission to dose more frequently at lower dose or for that matter have a doc to chelate. Good for you for questioning the doc rather than just going along with what the doc says. Many on this list got here by going along with what docs or dentists said and not questioning them. S S <p>I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well<br> established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels.<br> It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " <br> <br> I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low<br> dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite<br> different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the<br> radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " -<br> <a href= " http://tinyurl.com/g2mop " >http://tinyurl.<wbr>com/g2mop</a><br> <br> So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. <br> I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on<br> labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. <br> <br> So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I<br> may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much!<br> <br> Mark<br> _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Will your wife agree to dose more frequently if you show her the literature? Sounds like she does what the doctor tells her to do. Pam > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Thanks. Well to minimize the amount of damage to kids it would be beneficial to get this literature into the hands of as many DAN doctors as possible. I don't want to be skeptical because I've also heard from many parents who started seeing better results and less problems when they switched to low-dose high-frequency. But on the other hand, I also have yet to see any data. That's why I asked where is the literature. This is probably a question only Andy can answer, it appears. Mark > > > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood > levels. > > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the > low > > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess > forever. > > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has > shown on > > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > > > Mark > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. i found some things that might help. in this article http://www.ehponline.org/members/2001/109p167-171frumkin/frumkin-full.html Diagnostic Chelation Challenge with DMSA: A Biomarker of Long-Term Mercury Exposure? Frumkin,1 Claudine C. Manning,2 L. ,3 ,1 B. ,4 Marsha Pierce,4 Elon,2 and Vicki S. Hertzberg2 it says 'The blood concentration of DMSA peaks in 3 hr, and the half-life is 3.2 hr (15). ' and refers to this paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 331491 & dopt=Abstract Aposhian HV, Maiorino RM, M, Bruce DC, Dart RC, Hurlbut KM, Levine DJ, Zheng W, Q, D, et al. Human studies with the chelating agents, DMPS and DMSA. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 30:505-528 (1992). you could just give those to your wife, or go to a med library, find the complete aposhian paper, and keep tracing the papers back to find the sources. He scoffed at the low > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > i went to this link and didn't find anything. > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. tell her that you met a poisoned woman on the internet who tested dmsa on herself and told you that from her own experimentation and from all of the other reports from adults that she has read in chelation group archives, she knows for sure that it is best to take dmsa every 4 h or more frequently. if she continues to dose 3x per day there will be redistribution that will lead to worsening. if only she could experience what redistribution felt like for me she would understand. linda j > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 In the following post, Andy mentions a few papers that give the pharmacokinetics of DMSA: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/7191.html -- > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 I very rarely do what my doctor says, even my DAN doctor. I find my own judgement turns out better for me, but I do alot of research. Does the DAN doctor have an autistic child? Usually parents are watching child closer and reading more on it than doctor. I don't totally disregard what he/she says, but recheck everything and make my own decisions from there. I don't see how slower chelating could hurt anway, or low doses more freq could hurt no matter what the half life argument turns out to be. I looked up half life on oral EDTA and got different information, ranging from 40 minutes to 2 hours. --- redrackem <redrackem@...> wrote: > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in > children is well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Check with Andy Cutler who has done a tremendous amount of research on this. Barb [ ] Half-Life of DMSA I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - http://tinyurl.com/g2mop So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > i went to this link and didn't find anything. Here is the full link: http://www.drugs.com/data/_pop3.cfm?htm=73200425.htm & bn=SUCCIMER & pageid=0 & type=p\ dr & pop=1 It's basically what the PDF says about Succimer. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Thank you, . I wish I could get that full study paper to show the doc. I agree I'll have to attack this in our home only - since the doc probably doesn't want a patient telling him what's up. Mark > > > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. > > > > > i found some things that might help. > > in this article > > http://www.ehponline.org/members/2001/109p167-171frumkin/frumkin-full.html > > Diagnostic Chelation Challenge with DMSA: A Biomarker of Long-Term > Mercury Exposure? > Frumkin,1 Claudine C. Manning,2 L. ,3 > ,1 B. ,4 Marsha Pierce,4 Elon,2 and Vicki S. > Hertzberg2 > > it says > > 'The blood concentration of DMSA peaks in 3 hr, and the half-life is > 3.2 hr (15). ' > > and refers to this paper > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\ 331491 & dopt=Abstract > > > Aposhian HV, Maiorino RM, M, Bruce DC, Dart RC, Hurlbut KM, > Levine DJ, Zheng W, Q, D, et al. Human studies with > the chelating agents, DMPS and DMSA. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 30:505-528 > (1992). > > > you could just give those to your wife, or go to a med library, find > the complete aposhian paper, and keep tracing the papers back to find > the sources. > > > > > > He scoffed at the low > > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > > > > > > i went to this link and didn't find anything. > > > > > > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. > > > > > > tell her that you met a poisoned woman on the internet who tested dmsa > on herself and told you that from her own experimentation and from all > of the other reports from adults that she has read in chelation group > archives, she knows for sure that it is best to take dmsa every 4 h or > more frequently. if she continues to dose 3x per day there will be > redistribution that will lead to worsening. > > if only she could experience what redistribution felt like for me she > would understand. > > linda j > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > > > Mark > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Thanks again. These look very good. I don't know whether I'll be able to access the studies. Unless I pay for them. I have the feeling I'm going to be the one staying up all night. > > > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low > > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. > > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > > > Mark > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 You can find this one online: Env. Hlth. Persp. 1995:103:734-9 Search for Environmental Health Perspectives volume 103. That should turn it up. Showing this to your doctor may or may not convince him of anything. You might try a pharmacist first - ask if dosing at the half life is a better idea. If the pharmacist " gets it " , then you can use the pharmacist as an authoritative backup when you talk to the doctor. My doctor is now convinced that ALA is more than " just an antioxidant " . She won't quite call it a chelator, but she " did some more research " on it and says it is " synergistic with DMSA " . It's a baby step, but I call it progress. -- > > > > > > I found in archives: " The half life of DMSA in children is well > > > established in the literature by direct measurement of blood levels. > > > It is 2.5 to 3.5 hours, depending on the individual, not 8 hours. " > > > > > > I need to show that literature to my DAN doc. He scoffed at the low > > > dose idea and showed me succimer (DMSA) in the PDR had a quite > > > different half-life. " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > > > > > So now he's got my wife giving the boy 25mg 3x/day, I guess forever. > > > I don't think I'm comfortable with this, since he already has shown on > > > labs to always have elevated alkaline phosphatase levels. > > > > > > So I'd like to be directed to the literature cited above, so that I > > > may have some rebuttal, please. Thanks very much! > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 It seems like the only one you need to convince is your wife. The doctor has no control over what you do at home. I almost never do what my doctor says since I've had bad results in many areas for following them rather than my own gut instincts or reading. I file most of the prescriptions I get just in case I decide to take them later. --- redrackem <redrackem@...> wrote: > Thank you, . I wish I could get that full > study paper to show > the doc. I agree I'll have to attack this in > our home only - since > the doc probably doesn't want a patient telling > him what's up. > > Mark > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 > > " The apparent elimination half-life of the > > > radio-labeled material in the blood was about two days. " - > > > http://tinyurl.com/g2mop > > > > i went to this link and didn't find anything. > > Here is the full link: > http://www.drugs.com/data/_pop3.cfm?htm=73200425.htm & bn=SUCCIMER & pageid=0 & type=p\ dr & pop=1 > > It's basically what the PDF says about Succimer. > In the Asiedu et al paper this part is mentioned on the last page. Asiedu says that the McNeil study had an initial t 1/2 of 2.1 h, similiar to what Asiedu found, and a 'terminal' t 1/2 of 2.1 days. They hypothesise that the second elimination phase may be from stored drug metabolites in the gallbladder. J > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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