Re: biotin/ALA question-DANA

[Guest guest]

Do you know where you read that statement? Do we know that it is

true? I guess I will dose away from ALA to be safe, wouldn't want

to waste ALA and not get results. Thanks!

> >

> > I have been using biotin (5000 mcg/1xday) with my daughter for

yeast.

> > am hoping to start ALA soon but I thought I read somewhere that

biotin

> > and ALA shared a pathway but can't remember where I read this.

Does

> > anyone know anything about this. I guess I was thinking if it

was

> > true that maybe I should use biotin during ALA " on " days because

it

> > would block it? Any thoughts?

>

>

> I read that statement AFTER my kids were fully chelated with ALA

lol

>

> It might be why my son was so deficient in biotin.

>

> Adding high doses of biotin was VERY helpful, especially for

> controlling yeast. You might want to give it away from the ALA,

> either between doses or on " off " days.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

,

What you might be thinking of are comments made by Owens. I

found them in my notes (sorry it took so long--my notes are getting

out of control).

I've cut and pasted below. This might be particularly important if

you've been using ALA long term (as Dana was) or if your child has

ammonia issues, as apparently biotin can be of help in that

situation.

I hope this helps.

Anita

's words:

-------------------

I think that the people who are most likely to respond to biotin are

those

who have used biotin depleters. I'll post separately a list from a

medical

school website, but to that I would add ALA, because it competes

with

biotin for transport, as discussed in the article below. That means

the

biotin you got from your diet or from your flora may not have

competed well

for absorption in the gut or for reabsorption in the kidneys, and

that may

mean that your would-have-been adequate biotin may have ended up in

the

toilet. For children who were biotin depleted because of use of

antibiotics or because of being on depakote, this may have more

serious

consequences.

From a study:

In the past, lipoic acid has been administered to patients and test

animals as therapy for diabetic neuropathy and various

intoxications.

Lipoic acid and the vitamin biotin have structural similarities. We

sought

to determine whether the chronic administration of lipoic acid

affects the

activities of biotin-dependent carboxylases. For 28 d, rats received

daily

intraperitoneal injections of one of the following: 1) a small dose

of

lipoic acid [4.3 micromol/( kg.d)]; 2) a large dose of lipoic acid

[15.6

micromol/(kg.d)]; or 3) a large dose of lipoic acid plus biotin

[15.6 and

2.0 micromol/(kg.d), respectively]. Another group received n-

hexanoic acid

[14.5 micromol/(kg.d)], which has structural similarities to lipoic

acid

and biotin and thus served as a control for the specificity of

lipoic acid.

A fifth group received phosphatidylcholine in saline injections and

served

as the vehicle control. The rat livers were assayed for the

activities of

acetyl-CoA carboxylase, pyruvate carboxylase, propionyl-CoA

carboxylase,

and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase. Urine was analyzed for

lipoic

acid; serum was analyzed for indicators of liver damage and

metabolic

aberrations. The mean activities of pyruvate carboxylase and

beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase were 28-36% lower in the lipoic

acid-treated rats compared with vehicle controls (P < 0.05). Rats

treated

with lipoic acid plus biotin had normal carboxylase activities.

Carboxylase

activities in livers of n-hexanoic acid-treated rats were normal

despite

some evidence of liver injury. Propionyl-CoA carboxylase and acetyl-

CoA

carboxylase were not significantly affected by administration of

lipoic

acid. This study provides evidence consistent with the hypothesis

that

chronic administration of lipoic acid lowers the activities of

pyruvate

carboxylase and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase in vivo by

competing

with biotin.

> > >

> > > I have been using biotin (5000 mcg/1xday) with my daughter for

> yeast.

> > > am hoping to start ALA soon but I thought I read somewhere

that

> biotin

> > > and ALA shared a pathway but can't remember where I read

this.

> Does

> > > anyone know anything about this. I guess I was thinking if it

> was

> > > true that maybe I should use biotin during ALA " on " days

because

> it

> > > would block it? Any thoughts?

> >

> >

> > I read that statement AFTER my kids were fully chelated with ALA

> lol

> >

> > It might be why my son was so deficient in biotin.

> >

> > Adding high doses of biotin was VERY helpful, especially for

> > controlling yeast. You might want to give it away from the ALA,

> > either between doses or on " off " days.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In practical situations inside real human beings the interaction

between biotin and ALA is not significant.

Some people need lots of biotin - and toxicity can in fact create this

situation - but ALA isn't causing it to be deficient. They need a lot

whether or not they chelate.

Andy