Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and Mercury poisoning

[Guest guest]

>

> I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

Kanner. My son was dx Kanner, severe, low functioning. Even the DAN

doctors told me he was a genetic case.

He is now 98% biomedically recovered, and making good progress in

catching up developmentally.

My son was dx autism, which he definitely qualified as. However, he

was actually metal toxic, virus infested, nutritionally deficient or

toxic [depending on the nutrient], mitochondrial issues, and several

other medical issues. You might say I addressed all his medical

issues, and " coincidentally " his autism also resolved.

> The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

problem is both treatable and curable.

Kanner can also be mercury poisoning, altho the mercury usually causes

lots of other problems also, all of which need to be corrected.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> Everyone's definition of normal is quite different.

>

I agree with this - the confusion lies in if appearing 'normal' equals

the ability of having a good quality of life - current research is

showing that this is not panning out. Having speech and academic

skills, even good 'eye contact', etc. does not mean that a person with

autism will be able to adapt to dynamic situations without remediating

the core deficits. This is something that professionals have not been

aware of until now - previously it was thought if we can teach

language skills, social skills, and kids can do well in school, we

would be providing them with good chance of being successful as

adults. But what we see now are adults who can be very intelligent in

specific areas, and have good language, but still need to live with

parents, or unable to hold jobs - so the current focus is on

identifying those cognitive processes that are holding them back.

Someone else posted about the difference between Kanner's autism

(which was the original form of autism diagnosed 40 years ago, and

rates were much lower than what is being seen today) and autism

relating from mercury poisoning. Certainly there appear to be many

more children being diagnosed with autism today, and if environmental

factors are involved and a child is 'toxic', one would want to treat

that. But the remediation for autism (regardless of the cause)

differentiates the etiology (the cause) from the pathogenesis (the

breakdown that occurs in neurology, which negatively impacts

social-emotional relationships, which in turn impacts neurology).

Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

communication and social interaction that is received in the

parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

(assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

no clear cause identified).

If you think about all the experiences needed, the memories that need

to be created for a child to make sense of the world and adapt in a

fluid manner - there is no pill that can re-create the experiences the

child needs to build those underdeveloped pathways. So while some

children with autism may need to receive treatment for nutritional

issues and/or toxicity issues, all children with autism (regardless of

the 'cause') will need to receive developmentally appropriate

intervention to address those information processing deficits that

will impact future neurological processing and adaptation. While no

one is saying there is a 'cure', yet, there certainly is much more

hope for autism treatment, and for the first time we know we can

remediate the deficits, those core areas that previously were thought

to be untreatable.

April

> > From: Abid Khan

> >

> > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 8:07 PM

> > Subject: Re: [ ] I have autism and I'm normal --

> AUTISM and Mercury poisoning

> >

> >

> > I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

> cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

> also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

> cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

> >

> > The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

> about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

> classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

> problem is both treatable and curable.

> >

[Guest guest]

My 2 cents:

The statistic that I have seen mentioned on this list by a reputable

individual is that 75% of ASD kids who are chelated will have their ASD

issues improve. However, there appears to be no consensus about what is

going on with the 25% who do not improve with chelation.

I just happen to have begun reading books and articles about autism in my

teens, a number of years before I had my first child. When my oldest was

quite young, I concluded that he seemed to have some form of autism or

something similar to autism, so I remained interested in the subject. Over

the years, I have read many stories of " miracle cures " . Many of them

involved dietary changes or other biomedical intervention. Although there

is much disagreement from one theory to another as to exact cause of ASD,

the general consensus of both parents and professionals is that there is an

environmental component -- for example, kids born near highly polluted

rivers are more likely to have autism as well as more likely to have a

variety of birth defects.

So, while some people claim that " autism is some kind of viral infection "

and others claim that " autism is really mercury poisoning " and others claim

" autism is really caused by digestive or food issues which impact the brain

like a psychotropic drug " and so forth, they generally all agree that there

is SOME biomedical component of some type. The people on this list are very

prone to stating that " autism is really mercury poisoning " but, in fact,

digestive issues, viral issues and so forth are also routinely addressed by

the people here trying to help their children.

I don't personally think any one thing can be blamed. I think it is a

complex problem with multiple causes. I don't personally think that

" autism " is a single, uniform diagnosis. My observation is that a diagnosis

of ASD means that an individual has some subset of various traits or

problems, the exact cause of which is typically not known and often not

sought by conventional professionals who are often all too happy to slap a

label on a person and thereby wash their hands of genuine responsibility for

the outcomes.

I remain largely dissatisfied by the official understanding of what " autism "

means. I also remain intrigued with how many of the disparate theories of

what causes autism are being successfully addressed by members of this

list. So it appears to me that none of them is the be all and end all

explanation and most of them have at least some validity in at least some

percentage of cases and it appears more and more that they are all pieces to

a complex puzzle.

--

Michele in Limbo (formerly in California)

talithamichele@...

Visit Michele's World!

http://www.califmichele.com

" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. "

-- Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

And so is the way that our body can repair, heal, or change. Some do it

without chelating - a different perspective, granted, out of the norm of

this list and EOHarm, but still valid to consider.

Sharon, NH

On 6/18/06, Jan <paxlforme@...> wrote:

>

> Everyone's definition of normal is quite different.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Beautifully said and I agree 100%. I'm always a little disappointed when we

can't collectively cheer for the small victories of some, even if they

haven't gone the same path, or have the same thoughts. And I'm also sorry

to hear you're still in limbo. Is there a " cure " for that?

Sharon

On 6/19/06, Michele <talithamichele@...> wrote:

>

>

> I remain largely dissatisfied by the official understanding of what

> " autism "

> means. I also remain intrigued with how many of the disparate theories of

> what causes autism are being successfully addressed by members of this

> list. So it appears to me that none of them is the be all and end all

> explanation and most of them have at least some validity in at least some

> percentage of cases and it appears more and more that they are all pieces

> to

> a complex puzzle.

>

> --

> Michele in Limbo (formerly in California)

>

>

> <talithamichele%40gmail.com>

>

[Guest guest]

>>Michele,

And I'm also sorry

to hear you're still in limbo. Is there a " cure " for that?

Sharon

---

I have been told that A Job would cure my problem with still being In

Limbo. However, it appears that there is no short, easy path to such things

when you have been a homemaker for 2 decades or so and also live with a

genetic disorder. I have a meeting the day after tomorrow to try to cast

some light on what more can be done for someone seemingly so unqualified for

" a normal job " (not to mention a normal life!).

I also have fantasies of getting a book deal, winning big money, and/or

founding a charity. :-D Today is perhaps a bad day for you to ask as I am

rather discouraged at the moment. But I knew when I decided that a divorce

was the best thing for us that there would be no quick and easy solutions.

Later,

--

Michele in Limbo (formerly in California)

talithamichele@...

Visit Michele's World!

http://www.califmichele.com

" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. "

-- Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

Jan,

What cognitive processes are holding them back if they have good social

skills, intelligence, eye contact and language. Is it flexiblility, ability

to adapt to different situations? Because if so CARD addresses these issues

and many services like this and biomedical tx's are available now that

weren't for those who are now grown and job-seeking. It is my understanding

that the GFCF diet has been around that long, realization of harm of soy

even less and VB vs. discrete trial to focus on NET/generalization now. The

DAN conf/protocol only 8 years old so my hope is that the younger kids now

have a much different experience with treatment and recovery, right?

Re: [ ] I have autism and I'm normal --

>> AUTISM and Mercury poisoning

>> >

>> >

>> > I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

>> cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

>> also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

>> cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

>> >

>> > The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

>> about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

>> classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

>> problem is both treatable and curable.

>> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

> relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

> information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

> adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

> communication and social interaction that is received in the

> parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

> emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

> those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

> (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

> no clear cause identified).

I do want to jump in here to say that my experience has not been like

this. n's primary deficits were social: after diet, enzymes, and

supps he still had no friends at age 5; didn't have any social

gesturing like waving; met people, even people he knew and liked, with

a stony, glum expression and mostly blank affect. His moments of

empathy (none at all before enzymes) were pretty rare. If his yeast

and diet were under control, he was interested in other kids but had

no idea how to connect with them. I did a lot of teaching during those

years -- basic stuff explaining about eye contact, etc., social

stories, books on social skills,...and for the most part found that

route almost-but-not-quite useless. He could memorize what I told him

to do, but when he did it it came out so stilted and awkward that I

decided it was better to let him be his awkward natural self, and not

add trying to please me by doing these insane things like " waving " to

what was obviously already a stressful time of it.

So I was shocked, really, that chelation had the effect it did. I've

told this many times on the list, but the first weekend of chelation

he went up to another boy on the playground (!), introduced himself

(!!) and ran off playing with him (!!!!). He had never done anything

like that before -- I would never have guessed he even knew what an

introduction was. Chelation and antivirals didn't get him ready to be

taught social skills, they allowed him to access what he already knew.

I'm not really disagreeing with you here -- I'm sure there are kids

who were sick so early on that they are having to work harder to make

those social pathways than n did, and require extra intervention

besides biomed. He was damaged in utero by RhoGam, then while nursing

by my dental work and amalgams, but still managed to make it until the

18 mo DTaP before regressing. So maybe having those early months made

the difference for him.

But I wanted parents to know that it's quite possible that they aren't

going to have to start from scratch socially once their children start

to recover. I think these kids know and sense and understand a whole

lot more than their bodies allow them to express.

Nell

[Guest guest]

I agree, because they are aware of so much more than they appear to be, often

times progression is often rapid, with recovery.

Our girl's regression was even later, 2.75 years, so maybe that is it, but her

language, which met the bare minimum at 3.7 years, ballooned to 6.5 years after

6 months of chelation begun at 3.11 years.

The social actually did take longer, has just come to flawless in the last 6

months, but when she regressed she acted like she had no interest in other kids,

at all. That progressed to interest, but no clue how to play, to more

appropriate play, to joining in all the time, to total social comfort.

Saying this very awkwardly here, but agree, many times you do not have to start

from scratch, progress is often rapid to normal, at least that is what we

witnessed here.

[ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

>

> Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

> relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

> information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

> adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

> communication and social interaction that is received in the

> parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

> emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

> those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

> (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

> no clear cause identified).

I do want to jump in here to say that my experience has not been like

this. n's primary deficits were social: after diet, enzymes, and

supps he still had no friends at age 5; didn't have any social

gesturing like waving; met people, even people he knew and liked, with

a stony, glum expression and mostly blank affect. His moments of

empathy (none at all before enzymes) were pretty rare. If his yeast

and diet were under control, he was interested in other kids but had

no idea how to connect with them. I did a lot of teaching during those

years -- basic stuff explaining about eye contact, etc., social

stories, books on social skills,...and for the most part found that

route almost-but-not-quite useless. He could memorize what I told him

to do, but when he did it it came out so stilted and awkward that I

decided it was better to let him be his awkward natural self, and not

add trying to please me by doing these insane things like " waving " to

what was obviously already a stressful time of it.

So I was shocked, really, that chelation had the effect it did. I've

told this many times on the list, but the first weekend of chelation

he went up to another boy on the playground (!), introduced himself

(!!) and ran off playing with him (!!!!). He had never done anything

like that before -- I would never have guessed he even knew what an

introduction was. Chelation and antivirals didn't get him ready to be

taught social skills, they allowed him to access what he already knew.

I'm not really disagreeing with you here -- I'm sure there are kids

who were sick so early on that they are having to work harder to make

those social pathways than n did, and require extra intervention

besides biomed. He was damaged in utero by RhoGam, then while nursing

by my dental work and amalgams, but still managed to make it until the

18 mo DTaP before regressing. So maybe having those early months made

the difference for him.

But I wanted parents to know that it's quite possible that they aren't

going to have to start from scratch socially once their children start

to recover. I think these kids know and sense and understand a whole

lot more than their bodies allow them to express.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Nell,

I couldn't agree with you more!!

[ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

>

>>

>> Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

>> relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

>> information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

>> adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

>> communication and social interaction that is received in the

>> parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

>> emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

>> those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

>> (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

>> no clear cause identified).

>

> I do want to jump in here to say that my experience has not been like

> this. n's primary deficits were social: after diet, enzymes, and

> supps he still had no friends at age 5; didn't have any social

> gesturing like waving; met people, even people he knew and liked, with

> a stony, glum expression and mostly blank affect. His moments of

> empathy (none at all before enzymes) were pretty rare. If his yeast

> and diet were under control, he was interested in other kids but had

> no idea how to connect with them. I did a lot of teaching during those

> years -- basic stuff explaining about eye contact, etc., social

> stories, books on social skills,...and for the most part found that

> route almost-but-not-quite useless. He could memorize what I told him

> to do, but when he did it it came out so stilted and awkward that I

> decided it was better to let him be his awkward natural self, and not

> add trying to please me by doing these insane things like " waving " to

> what was obviously already a stressful time of it.

>

> So I was shocked, really, that chelation had the effect it did. I've

> told this many times on the list, but the first weekend of chelation

> he went up to another boy on the playground (!), introduced himself

> (!!) and ran off playing with him (!!!!). He had never done anything

> like that before -- I would never have guessed he even knew what an

> introduction was. Chelation and antivirals didn't get him ready to be

> taught social skills, they allowed him to access what he already knew.

>

> I'm not really disagreeing with you here -- I'm sure there are kids

> who were sick so early on that they are having to work harder to make

> those social pathways than n did, and require extra intervention

> besides biomed. He was damaged in utero by RhoGam, then while nursing

> by my dental work and amalgams, but still managed to make it until the

> 18 mo DTaP before regressing. So maybe having those early months made

> the difference for him.

>

> But I wanted parents to know that it's quite possible that they aren't

> going to have to start from scratch socially once their children start

> to recover. I think these kids know and sense and understand a whole

> lot more than their bodies allow them to express.

>

> Nell

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

I have relatives whom I now realize were definitely Asperger's.

For example, my dear aunt was in the military during WW2, as was many of her

7 brothers. When she came home for the holidays she expected them to salute

her at dinner because she was a higher rank than they were. And she never,

ever got why that was a joke against her! Similarly, she was nearly

impossible to have a conversation with and didn't get cues. But, she married

another Aspie and they were actually quite happy together talking about odd

ball topics back and forth all day-- one of the happiest couples I've ever

seen. This aunt was Aspie, one uncle " talked baby talk until 2nd grade " but

was brilliant, and a very fun person to be around, though he felt held

back by dyslexia, .and another aunt had dyslexia severely but awesome social

skills. She developed severe diabetes. Neither of the parents had any of

these disorders. And none of their cousins.

So-- this generation was born in the 1920's. But before you say--AHA--this

cannot be thimerasol, it's clearly genes--when the affected children were

young, the family lived within 1/2 mile of a steel mill. What's one of the

3 top toxins emitted by steel mills? Mercury, my dear .

And, after years of productive, happy lives, the aunt with Aspie and the

uncle with dyslexia eventually succumbed to Alzheimers. Which says to me

that they managed to recover but got re-poisoned.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of danasview

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:29 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

>

> I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

Kanner. My son was dx Kanner, severe, low functioning. Even the DAN

doctors told me he was a genetic case.

He is now 98% biomedically recovered, and making good progress in

catching up developmentally.

My son was dx autism, which he definitely qualified as. However, he

was actually metal toxic, virus infested, nutritionally deficient or

toxic [depending on the nutrient], mitochondrial issues, and several

other medical issues. You might say I addressed all his medical

issues, and " coincidentally " his autism also resolved.

> The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

problem is both treatable and curable.

Kanner can also be mercury poisoning, altho the mercury usually causes

lots of other problems also, all of which need to be corrected.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carolyn,

My son has hi level of mercury 0.8 (normal <0.4), hi Aluminum 10 (normal <8),

and hi Arsenic 0.14 (normal <0.08). The doctor in Natural Path recommended him

taking Cilantro, Chlarella, Thvja, and cod liver oil. She said that after 3

months, the chelation will work and level of the heavy metal should be back to

normal.

I realize that people in this site use medical chelation a lot. Can you tell

me the difference between them?

Thanks a lot.

Carolyn Weissberg <kylesmom@...> wrote:

I have relatives whom I now realize were definitely Asperger's.

For example, my dear aunt was in the military during WW2, as was many of her

7 brothers. When she came home for the holidays she expected them to salute

her at dinner because she was a higher rank than they were. And she never,

ever got why that was a joke against her! Similarly, she was nearly

impossible to have a conversation with and didn't get cues. But, she married

another Aspie and they were actually quite happy together talking about odd

ball topics back and forth all day-- one of the happiest couples I've ever

seen. This aunt was Aspie, one uncle " talked baby talk until 2nd grade " but

was brilliant, and a very fun person to be around, though he felt held

back by dyslexia, .and another aunt had dyslexia severely but awesome social

skills. She developed severe diabetes. Neither of the parents had any of

these disorders. And none of their cousins.

So-- this generation was born in the 1920's. But before you say--AHA--this

cannot be thimerasol, it's clearly genes--when the affected children were

young, the family lived within 1/2 mile of a steel mill. What's one of the

3 top toxins emitted by steel mills? Mercury, my dear .

And, after years of productive, happy lives, the aunt with Aspie and the

uncle with dyslexia eventually succumbed to Alzheimers. Which says to me

that they managed to recover but got re-poisoned.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of danasview

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:29 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

>

> I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

Kanner. My son was dx Kanner, severe, low functioning. Even the DAN

doctors told me he was a genetic case.

He is now 98% biomedically recovered, and making good progress in

catching up developmentally.

My son was dx autism, which he definitely qualified as. However, he

was actually metal toxic, virus infested, nutritionally deficient or

toxic [depending on the nutrient], mitochondrial issues, and several

other medical issues. You might say I addressed all his medical

issues, and " coincidentally " his autism also resolved.

> The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

problem is both treatable and curable.

Kanner can also be mercury poisoning, altho the mercury usually causes

lots of other problems also, all of which need to be corrected.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Someone else posted about the difference between Kanner's autism

> (which was the original form of autism diagnosed 40 years ago, and

> rates were much lower than what is being seen today) and autism

> relating from mercury poisoning.

My Kanner son was mercury poisoned [as well as many other medical issues].

> Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

> relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

> information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

> adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

> communication and social interaction that is received in the

> parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

> emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

> those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

> (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

> no clear cause identified).

Not for my son. In fact, I stopped trying " interventions " with him [i

homeschool] several years ago. They simply did not work, and were

just a source of frustration for both of us. For my son, every single

gain has been because of a biomedical intervention.

He started waving " hi " and " bye " without me even attempting to address

that skill. He started going up to other kids who were crying, and

asked " are you okay? " , and I did not think he was anywhere near ready

for me teaching that skill. He comes to the aid of his brothers and

sisters, teases them, plays with them, etc. And I did almost none of

this as an educational intervention.

For social issues, I just tell him things like " wait for your turn " ,

just like I would for any child. Right now he is very socially

related, and I can say that I personally contributed about 1% to his

learning those skills. He picked them up by watching his parents and

siblings and other kids, and as a funny aside, he actually picks up

new skills by watching his younger brother, who is PDD and learning

those skills the same way, by observing and imitating, a few months

ahead of him.

Right now, my #2 is " developmentally delayed " , but no longer autistic.

He is age 10, and he just finished a pre-K program. I treated him

just like any other pre-K child, and he did fine. Next year we will

do a K program, and I will try to accelerate it so that he will be

into 1st grade before the end of the year. His younger brother is age

8 and just finished a K program. Both of these boys read, altho #3 is

ahead of #2 with phonics.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> My 2 cents:

> The statistic that I have seen mentioned on this list by a reputable

> individual is that 75% of ASD kids who are chelated will have their ASD

> issues improve. However, there appears to be no consensus about what is

> going on with the 25% who do not improve with chelation.

Still no " consensus " , but for my son, ALA chelation caused

improvements for a week or so, then regression again. The only real

lasting gain from chelation, was that my son tolerated foods and

supplements, and no longer had gut yeast. The lasting gains came from

the supplements, which addressed OTHER issues that the metal toxicity

had caused.

> So, while some people claim that " autism is some kind of viral

infection "

> and others claim that " autism is really mercury poisoning " and

others claim

> " autism is really caused by digestive or food issues which impact

the brain

> like a psychotropic drug " and so forth, they generally all agree

that there

> is SOME biomedical component of some type.

My son had all of the issues you wrote above, plus more.

>>My observation is that a diagnosis

> of ASD means that an individual has some subset of various traits or

> problems, the exact cause of which is typically not known and often not

> sought by conventional professionals who are often all too happy to

slap a

> label on a person and thereby wash their hands of genuine

responsibility for

> the outcomes.

Yep, I sure agree with you here.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> But I wanted parents to know that it's quite possible that they

aren't

> going to have to start from scratch socially once their children

start

> to recover. I think these kids know and sense and understand a whole

> lot more than their bodies allow them to express.

>

> Nell

>

I do hope this is true, and I suspect it in our case (though after the

weekend we have just had, this takes quite a bit of faith to

sustain). My son is still very, very close to being functionally

nonverbal, but will occasionally do/say absolutely stunning things.

Way back, before ANY biomedical intervention (before any intervention

al all) he could say " ba " for ball, " duh " for dog, and maybe a small

handful of other words, not well or often, but technically the words

were there. Then out of the blue, for a period of a few days, he

spontaneously started saying " Saturday " . His pronunciation was

perfect. And THEN (and it's always possible I was hallucinating) one

day I swear I heard him say " My daddy plays with me on Saturday. "

Absolutely unforced, perfectly pronounced and about as quick as any

child his age - which would have been just two. But where did this

concept of time come from? And the days of the week? This was not a

sentence I'd ever said to him, and I hadn't taught him these

concepts. After this, even " Saturday " was gone without a trace.

We've had other instances of this - after his first day of special-

needs preschool last summer, the SLP said to me, " Today your son was

talking to himself, and said 'I did it, I go home soon'. " Last week

we were at a school picnic. I wouldn't let him go in the ankle-deep

mud and he said " I'm a sad guy! " A teacher was listening and

said, " yeah, he said that yesterday too. " We see flashes of empathy

and socialization like this as well. It's like lightning - it's here

and then it's gone again.

If I didn't see/hear these things, and didn't hear the parent reports

from people like Nell, Dana, and others, it would be tough going for

me. We don't have ANY publicily funded autism interventions like ABA

or Floortime in this province, and our family can't afford private

therapy. Which means, it all falls to us.... well, me. This kind of

work is excruciating for me, not because I don't want the best for my

son, and not because I don't like to spend time with him. I really,

REALLY hope it's not because I'm lazy. Recently I've been wondering

if my own toxicity issues (crazy bad hair test, symptoms) may be

making me borderline ADD. Bottom line, it's much easier to hole up in

front of a computer trying to wade through biomed stuff than it would

be to try to maintain a full-on behavioural intervention program

without any help. I try to interact with my son using Floortime

principles (but do very little actual Floortime work right now), I do

a fair bit of sensory work with him, and the rest is biomed. This is

the best I can do without going crazy. Until I'm thinking/feeling

better, or he gets a little better, or we move somewhere else, or

become instant millionaires and can afford private help, this is going

to have to be enough.

René

[Guest guest]

>This is

> the best I can do without going crazy.

That's important to remember! Really!

I don't have a kid with autism, but my NT youngest dd, now 8 yo, had some rocky

younger

years. She was explosive, mean, prone to mood swings...you get the idea. When

we

began to do biomed interventions (first HNI enzymes, then probiotics) we saw

glimpses of

the " real kid " coming out. Appropriate anger, using words, empathy, affection,

sense of

humor, more flexible. It really drove home for me how she was learning all the

time, even

during the bad times, from the good role models around her, but she had no

control due

to whatever was messing with her neurology. It was as if her emotions were

being

hijacked.

Round 25 of chelation, and doing better all the time.

in Illinois

[Guest guest]

,

I believe this post was meant for me, I had responded previously to

one of Jan's posts...sorry for the confusion.

Cognitive deficits that are detrimental to independent functioning for

adults on the spectrum do include flexibility issues - not just

transitioning, or knowing what to do in specific situations, but being

truly able to adapt to novel situations, to know what the important

information is in any environment (this is called " Dynamic

Appraisal " ), to be able to use social referencing (not the same as

'eye contact') to interpret communication and resolve uncertainty,

Episodic Memory (a specific type of memory that allows us to learn

from our mistakes, plan ahead, set long-term goals,etc.), and

Experience-sharing (individuals with autism tend to communicate to get

needs met).

Traditional therapies have attempted to teach the skills or to

compensate for the deficits. For example, a child who has difficulty

with a specific situation (e.g. birthday parties) might benefit from

reading a social story about what to do at a birthday party. This is a

compensation that can be helpful for the short-term. But one would not

want their child to be dependent on social stories for every

situation, or for the rest of his/her life. Until now we have not

known about the deficits (and most autism professionals still don't

know about the research, even though some of it is 10 years old).

In laymen's terms, is an example:

Appraisal - what is important at any point in time? How do we know

what to pay attention to? If I am giving a presentation, I am seeking

information that is meaningful to me: using Social Referencing

(another deficit of individuals with autism) to monitor the audience's

nonverbal communication and determine if they understand me. If I see

one person in the group take off his jacket, it may not be meaningful,

but if I see half the group take off their jacket, this tells me I

need to check the room temperature. Using social referencing is one

way we appraise our environment. A person can have eye contact and

look at faces but not be interpreting or using the information given:

think of the person with Asperger's who may have repetitive speech and

not be reading if the person they are talking at is interested (which

by the way, it won't matter how many skills we teach someone to start

a conversation with a peer when they don't have the cognitive

processes to monitor themselves, their peer, etc. and adapt in the

midst of the interaction). How many kids with autism are 'runners'

because they don't experience a sense of wariness because they don't

realize that mom or dad is their reference point in the world?

This results in a person with a lot of skills, who may be able to

memorize facts and do well academically, who may have lots of speech

but no communication (70-90% communication is nonverbal, and people

with autism are very poor nonverbal communicators), who may be able to

learn social scripts but not be able to share in a mutually enjoyable

reciprocal conversation or interact for purposes outside getting needs

met. The inability to process changing information and adapt results

in very high anxiety levels, limited relationships, and accumulation

of facts or repetitive interests instead of 'thinking about' and

sharing experiences. These deficits outweigh any skills that can be

taught, the IQ level, language ability and educational level that may

be achieved. Fortunately the research is being put together and a road

map is being created for parents to be able to determine which of

these areas need to be addressed.

I know these are off topic for this list, and hadn't intended to go

into details, but just wanted to give some food for thought in

response to DarkAngel's original post. For those who might be

interested in more info please feel free to email me off list. I am

not at all against parents treating their children for various

conditions that may be present and obviously affecting the child's

health. But I do think there is a misunderstanding that treating the

'cause' of the autism is going to bring the child immediately into the

same developmental playing field of their same age peers. Maybe for

some children who are treated early enough they might catch up more

naturally and quickly. But for many there is still a lag in their

development because the underlying issues impacted the parent-child

relationship, which is so critical for the development of thought.

April

> >>

> >> Everyone's definition of normal is quite different.

> >>

> >

> > I agree with this - the confusion lies in if appearing 'normal' equals

> > the ability of having a good quality of life - current research is

> > showing that this is not panning out. Having speech and academic

> > skills, even good 'eye contact', etc. does not mean that a person with

> > autism will be able to adapt to dynamic situations without remediating

> > the core deficits. This is something that professionals have not been

> > aware of until now - previously it was thought if we can teach

> > language skills, social skills, and kids can do well in school, we

> > would be providing them with good chance of being successful as

> > adults. But what we see now are adults who can be very intelligent in

> > specific areas, and have good language, but still need to live with

> > parents, or unable to hold jobs - so the current focus is on

> > identifying those cognitive processes that are holding them back.

> >

> > Someone else posted about the difference between Kanner's autism

> > (which was the original form of autism diagnosed 40 years ago, and

> > rates were much lower than what is being seen today) and autism

> > relating from mercury poisoning. Certainly there appear to be many

> > more children being diagnosed with autism today, and if environmental

> > factors are involved and a child is 'toxic', one would want to treat

> > that. But the remediation for autism (regardless of the cause)

> > differentiates the etiology (the cause) from the pathogenesis (the

> > breakdown that occurs in neurology, which negatively impacts

> > social-emotional relationships, which in turn impacts neurology).

> > Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

> > relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

> > information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

> > adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

> > communication and social interaction that is received in the

> > parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

> > emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

> > those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

> > (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

> > no clear cause identified).

> >

> > If you think about all the experiences needed, the memories that need

> > to be created for a child to make sense of the world and adapt in a

> > fluid manner - there is no pill that can re-create the experiences the

> > child needs to build those underdeveloped pathways. So while some

> > children with autism may need to receive treatment for nutritional

> > issues and/or toxicity issues, all children with autism (regardless of

> > the 'cause') will need to receive developmentally appropriate

> > intervention to address those information processing deficits that

> > will impact future neurological processing and adaptation. While no

> > one is saying there is a 'cure', yet, there certainly is much more

> > hope for autism treatment, and for the first time we know we can

> > remediate the deficits, those core areas that previously were thought

> > to be untreatable.

> >

> >

> > April

> >

> >> > From: Abid Khan

> >> >

> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 8:07 PM

> >> > Subject: Re: [ ] I have autism and I'm normal --

> >> AUTISM and Mercury poisoning

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

> >> cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

> >> also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

> >> cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

> >> >

> >> > The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was

brought

> >> about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

> >> classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

> >> problem is both treatable and curable.

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Dana,

I am happy to hear you are homeschooling your son:) The reason I say

this is many parents I know who are making the most progress are

pulling their kids out of school and realize that just being a 'mom'

and 'dad' is helping their children more than the traditional

interventions - as is developmentally appropriate goals, which it

sounds like if your son is 10 and you don't mind that he is working at

K level, you are doing as well. It is better to go slow and steady to

make the most long-term gains, IMO. FYI, the intervention I speak of

is probably not what you are referring to in your post, and I agree

that the older generation of intervention does not address autism -

but until now it was all we had , we didn't know what we know about

the deficits now.

April

> > Someone else posted about the difference between Kanner's autism

> > (which was the original form of autism diagnosed 40 years ago, and

> > rates were much lower than what is being seen today) and autism

> > relating from mercury poisoning.

>

>

> My Kanner son was mercury poisoned [as well as many other medical

issues].

>

>

> > Treating the physical cause of the autism does not treat the

> > relational deficits that occur because the child did not process the

> > information they needed to in the first years of life. The brain

> > adapts and neurological pathways are built in response to the

> > communication and social interaction that is received in the

> > parent-child relationship. Children who missed out on processing

> > emotional information, etc. will still need intervention to address

> > those deficits even if the 'cause' of their disorder is treated

> > (assuming the cause is identified - many children are diagnosed with

> > no clear cause identified).

>

>

> Not for my son. In fact, I stopped trying " interventions " with him [i

> homeschool] several years ago. They simply did not work, and were

> just a source of frustration for both of us. For my son, every single

> gain has been because of a biomedical intervention.

>

> He started waving " hi " and " bye " without me even attempting to address

> that skill. He started going up to other kids who were crying, and

> asked " are you okay? " , and I did not think he was anywhere near ready

> for me teaching that skill. He comes to the aid of his brothers and

> sisters, teases them, plays with them, etc. And I did almost none of

> this as an educational intervention.

>

> For social issues, I just tell him things like " wait for your turn " ,

> just like I would for any child. Right now he is very socially

> related, and I can say that I personally contributed about 1% to his

> learning those skills. He picked them up by watching his parents and

> siblings and other kids, and as a funny aside, he actually picks up

> new skills by watching his younger brother, who is PDD and learning

> those skills the same way, by observing and imitating, a few months

> ahead of him.

>

> Right now, my #2 is " developmentally delayed " , but no longer autistic.

> He is age 10, and he just finished a pre-K program. I treated him

> just like any other pre-K child, and he did fine. Next year we will

> do a K program, and I will try to accelerate it so that he will be

> into 1st grade before the end of the year. His younger brother is age

> 8 and just finished a K program. Both of these boys read, altho #3 is

> ahead of #2 with phonics.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

Recently I've been wondering

> if my own toxicity issues (crazy bad hair test, symptoms) may be

> making me borderline ADD. Bottom line, it's much easier to hole up

in

> front of a computer trying to wade through biomed stuff than it

would

> be to try to maintain a full-on behavioural intervention program

> without any help.

Big toxicity issues here too, so that my irl social life has shrunk

to almost nothing, and I don't mind at all (Hg symptom no question)

BUT what I *can do is hole up online and perserverate on biomed --

which actually turned out to be the very thing my son needed.

I did do some Floortime-esque stuff for awhile, and like you felt

guilty for not doing it more. Most of what I did with n was just

talk about anything, and read aloud to him. When he was having a bad

time that was all he wanted, and it suited me too, so that's what he

got, sometimes for many hours a day. Surely not as interactive or

instructive as it could have been, but I think just lying next to

each other, out bodies touching, and the drone of my voice still

managed to make real intimacy.

> Until I'm thinking/feeling

> better, or he gets a little better, or we move somewhere else, or

> become instant millionaires and can afford private help, this is

going

> to have to be enough.

It's much much better than that. You are doing *great with him. Are

you able to take any supps or think about chelating yourself? Things

are a whole lot better here when my symptoms are manageable...

Nell

[Guest guest]

>>> My 2 cents:

>>> The statistic that I have seen mentioned on this list by a reputable

>>> individual is that 75% of ASD kids who are chelated will have their ASD

>>> issues improve. However, there appears to be no consensus about what is

>>> going on with the 25% who do not improve with chelation.

>Still no " consensus " , but for my son, ALA chelation caused

>improvements for a week or so, then regression again. The only real

>lasting gain from chelation, was that my son tolerated foods and

>supplements, and no longer had gut yeast. The lasting gains came from

>the supplements, which addressed OTHER issues that the metal toxicity

>had caused.

-----

I recall you saying that you would have treated for viral issues sooner " if

you knew then what you know now " . I find that intriguing. I think

nutritional deficiencies, unnoticed infections and so on are far more common

than most people think and I think that is part of this puzzle.

>>> So, while some people claim that " autism is some kind of viral

infection "

>>> and others claim that " autism is really mercury poisoning " and others

claim

>>> " autism is really caused by digestive or food issues which impact the

brain

>>> like a psychotropic drug " and so forth, they generally all agree that

there

>>> is SOME biomedical component of some type.

>My son had all of the issues you wrote above, plus more.

-----

My oldest child has cystic fibrosis (CF), which causes serious gut issues.

Ironically, participating in this list has helped me address those issues

for him (and myself). I have recently begun participating more in online CF

forums and the understanding of gut issues in those communities appears to

be less sophisticated than what is discussed here. I think the gut issues

found in the ASD community can and do come from a variety of sources. I

have also been treating both my sons for " invisible " , untreated infections

for several years now which come from the fact that I and my oldest son had

undiagnosed CF for so many years and, thus, were not treated aggressively

enough when we were ill (which was often). I have good reason to believe

that my sons also have mercury poisoning but have not addressed that yet.

Addressing their gut issues, infections, nutritional deficiencies and so

forth have had big impacts already.

--

Michele in Limbo (formerly in California)

talithamichele@...

Visit Michele's World!

http://www.califmichele.com

" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. "

-- Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

no confusion. I simply had questions regarding a post for all to read who

are on this e-list. thanks for the info.

Re: [ ] I have autism and I'm normal --

>> >> AUTISM and Mercury poisoning

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

>> >> cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

>> >> also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

>> >> cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

>> >> >

>> >> > The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was

> brought

>> >> about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

>> >> classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

>> >> problem is both treatable and curable.

>> >> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > =======================================================

>> >

[Guest guest]

Well, I joined the site because we have been doing supplements like DMG,

Melatonin, etc, but we are just beginning to chelate directly (i believe

those other things lessen the load but not enough). So I am not the person

to ask.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Shaw

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:12 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

Hi, Carolyn,

My son has hi level of mercury 0.8 (normal <0.4), hi Aluminum 10 (normal

<8), and hi Arsenic 0.14 (normal <0.08). The doctor in Natural Path

recommended him taking Cilantro, Chlarella, Thvja, and cod liver oil. She

said that after 3 months, the chelation will work and level of the heavy

metal should be back to normal.

I realize that people in this site use medical chelation a lot. Can you tell

me the difference between them?

Thanks a lot.

Carolyn Weissberg <kylesmom@virtual- <mailto:kylesmom%40virtual-paper.com>

paper.com> wrote:

I have relatives whom I now realize were definitely Asperger's.

For example, my dear aunt was in the military during WW2, as was many of her

7 brothers. When she came home for the holidays she expected them to salute

her at dinner because she was a higher rank than they were. And she never,

ever got why that was a joke against her! Similarly, she was nearly

impossible to have a conversation with and didn't get cues. But, she married

another Aspie and they were actually quite happy together talking about odd

ball topics back and forth all day-- one of the happiest couples I've ever

seen. This aunt was Aspie, one uncle " talked baby talk until 2nd grade " but

was brilliant, and a very fun person to be around, though he felt held

back by dyslexia, .and another aunt had dyslexia severely but awesome social

skills. She developed severe diabetes. Neither of the parents had any of

these disorders. And none of their cousins.

So-- this generation was born in the 1920's. But before you say--AHA--this

cannot be thimerasol, it's clearly genes--when the affected children were

young, the family lived within 1/2 mile of a steel mill. What's one of the

3 top toxins emitted by steel mills? Mercury, my dear .

And, after years of productive, happy lives, the aunt with Aspie and the

uncle with dyslexia eventually succumbed to Alzheimers. Which says to me

that they managed to recover but got re-poisoned.

_____

From: @ <mailto: %40>

[mailto: @

<mailto: %40> ]

On Behalf Of danasview

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:29 AM

@ <mailto: %40>

Subject: [ ] Re: I have autism and I'm normal -- AUTISM and

Mercury poisoning

>

> I am somewhat confused about all the answers here. Can autism be

cured? I think there are 2 diseases here -- one is classical Autism

also known as Tanner's Syndrome. I'm not sure if that is treatable /

cureable -- sounds like its treatable.

Kanner. My son was dx Kanner, severe, low functioning. Even the DAN

doctors told me he was a genetic case.

He is now 98% biomedically recovered, and making good progress in

catching up developmentally.

My son was dx autism, which he definitely qualified as. However, he

was actually metal toxic, virus infested, nutritionally deficient or

toxic [depending on the nutrient], mitochondrial issues, and several

other medical issues. You might say I addressed all his medical

issues, and " coincidentally " his autism also resolved.

> The current epidemic of what mainstream calls " autism " was brought

about by Thimerosol starting in the early 1990's and is better

classified as " Mercury Poisoning " . Theoretically, at least, this

problem is both treatable and curable.

Kanner can also be mercury poisoning, altho the mercury usually causes

lots of other problems also, all of which need to be corrected.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> Dana,

> I am happy to hear you are homeschooling your son:) The reason I say

> this is many parents I know who are making the most progress are

> pulling their kids out of school and realize that just being a 'mom'

> and 'dad' is helping their children more than the traditional

> interventions - as is developmentally appropriate goals, which it

> sounds like if your son is 10 and you don't mind that he is working at

> K level, you are doing as well. It is better to go slow and steady to

> make the most long-term gains, IMO.

The pedneuro who dx my son told me he would never talk and probably

never even acknowledge my existence [he was a severe, low functioning

Kanner child], and I should " enroll him in the public school, they

will know what he needs " . Anyone here who has ever had an IEP meeting

will be able to attest that this statement can't be trusted.

My son not only talks now, he reads, interacts, and except for the

fact that he is 10, acts like a typical child of about 4-5yo.

At our homeschool ISP [umbrella school] graduation ceremony this year,

I introduced him to a medical doctor who is homeschooling her typical

child. She was amazed that he had a Kanner dx!

Dana

[Guest guest]

> I recall you saying that you would have treated for viral issues

sooner " if

> you knew then what you know now " . I find that intriguing. I think

> nutritional deficiencies, unnoticed infections and so on are far

more common

> than most people think and I think that is part of this puzzle.

My son made a ton of progress on anti-virals. I wish I had started

them before the end of chelation, instead of *at* the end of chelation.

> Addressing their gut issues, infections, nutritional deficiencies and so

> forth have had big impacts already.

GREAT!

I can't chelate myself yet, but fortunately I appear to tolerate most

supplements [which my son did not], so I have been able to address

many of my own issues with supplements.

Glad your family is doing well.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> My son made a ton of progress on anti-virals. I wish I had started

> them before the end of chelation, instead of *at* the end of

chelation.

I just want to echo this statement. I too wish I'd started anti-

virals in the begining. My ds also made a ton of progress (mainly

social) on anti-virals.